Thought about this thread over the weekend .... not sure how I stand on it but here goes: This weekend took my son out driving around getting his license soon ... after we got done he was complaining about not being able to text message he is on SM's phone plan she doesn't want to pay for it ... then he says SM flipped out on her 18yoDS and threw him out told him to find a new place to live (LONG STORY drugs, stealing etc. sold his car for drugs that sm and ex are still paying on eeks but anyway) she disconnected the internet. So son puts ex on the phone for me to talk to him and we talked about the issue at hand(text messaging/internet/etc.) and DS driving comparing kids and remembering how different the kids are just reminiscing(sp?) we must have talked for almost an hour .... his wife was not around my hubby was not around first real talk we have had in the 10 years since the split. Was like talking with an old friend more than an ex just remembering the funny things the kids did and such ..... got off the phone with the ex and DS says wow you two talked for that long ever.... guess you really don't hate each other .... The double standard I guess ... I don't see hubby talking to his ex like that I mean if he did really not much I could do about it but my ex was not he11 bent on ruining me and badmouthing me to the kids we supported each other with the kids .... didn't try to sabotage everything with regards to the kids..... I think someone said it not sure guess it depends on what type of person they (the ex) are just because you couldn't be married doesn't make them nasty, just not a good couple but if you couldn't stay married because they are nasty well there it is.

liesbeth, Stockholm Syndrome is so named after a bank robbery that occured in Stockholm Sweden, in which the bank employees were held hostage and placed in mortal fear of their lives for six days. When finally freed, instead of being grateful for their salvation, they not only protected and defended their captors, but identified with them and had become so emotionally attached, that even long afterwards, voluntarily stood by their former abusers, pleading their case to gain public sympathy through the press, raising money for their legal defense, supporting them through the trial and subsequent jail sentences and one woman even ended up marrying one of them. This phenomenon has been noted many times, and is believed to be a psychological response that arises in a victim who is lead to believe their very survival depends on "bonding" with their abuser. It is an automatic defense mechanism that goes way back to their first days of birth, similar to the bond infants form with their parents, which can subsequently be artificially developed, manipulated and intensified through the use of psychological "brainwashing" techniques, such as those employed by religious "cults", to strip their followers from their "freedom of choice", rendering them unable to make their own decisions, to keep them dependent on their cult leaders, for the purpose of turning them into their very own little "puppets". If anyone can't see yet just how abusive, manipulative, and psychologically damaging this is to proper development and well being of a child, I'll be glad to elaborate further, but I have to go visit a client right now. I'm not really sure what advice, if any I can give you liesbeth, my husband and I are actually seeing a therapist right now, who specializes in "cult deprogramming", partially to see if there's anything we can do to stop the stalking and harrassment from his nutzoid BM without having to completely remove ourselves from the lives of his children and family who she's managed to recruit, but also for the sake of his daughters, especially since his oldest daughter already HAD a complete and total nervous breakdown, to the point where she became completely nonfunctional. Only her whackjob of a mother has been doing this to her, not as a child, but after she became a married adult with the responsibility of for raising 3 toddler babies. And before anyone here even attempts to try to defend this BM's actions, this isn't MY opinion, it is the opinion of the licensed, professional psychiatrist, who referred us to our current therapist because it was beyond his field of expertise. take care,

Hi there! I've been a SM for almost 9 years now. Our situation is very similar to yours. BM complained about SD since she was 3 (she'll be 10 in June) and we've seen so much of the same behavior; good at our house and a complete monster with BM. BM has doctor hopped (let me mention that she is also an RN) until she found a doctor that will work on SD's behaviors. When SD was young BM and I got along and worked alright together and since I have 2 older children of my own she would ask questions and take advice. We were then pretty close for 3 years and now the past 2 she's gone on a "I hate the SM" spree. We only suspected that BM was saying things to SD 9 about us until two months ago when BM had a complete melt down at the local grocery store when SD saw me and wanted to come see me. (I'll post about that later). My DH deals with BM calling him at all hours with SD SCREAMING at her and flat out refusing to do anything BM says. We also see no structure in BM's home. SD goes to bed whenever, gets grounded and then rewarded all in the same day, is bought whatever she wants and regularly goes out for breakfast, lunch and dinner with BM. DH is trying very hard to be involved in the counseling that SD has even though we strongly feel it is BM who needs counseling or parenting classes to learn how to say NO. The kid doesn't pull any of that crap here. She may get snooty from time to time but she doesn't scream or pitch fits in public or tell us NO. We go out a few times a month as a treat for the kids (we have 4 at home still - DD 16, ODS 14, SD 9, YDS 7), we don't buy the kids something every time we go to the store, and they have regular bedtimes (BM takes SD out to restaurants at 10pm on a school night regularly). SD is her "best friend" and frequently gets manicures, pedicures, full body massages and any pet she wants. BM also says that we don't have accurate chores for SD to do when she's with us EOWE. At 9 I believe picking up after herself, helping clean the bird cages when she's here, making her bed and putting away her clothes/toys and helping set the table are enough. BM doesn't agree but oh well, it's our home. I truly don't know how you can change how SD's BM deals with her. We have yet to have SD test us though her behavior with her mother has gotten worse. Be consistent, let your SO talk to the child and tell her that treating BM that way is wrong. Let him listen but don't let BM have too much control over SO. He needs to understand that BM has to get it together and parent the child. Kids push mom's buttons more than they do dad's. I haven't met a child yet that doesn't. Have SO recommend timeout for BM and SD when the child is acting that way. If BM is consistent (which from reading it doesn't sound like she will be) then SD will learn she won't get rewarded and she can't treat BM that way. Good luck...

That was written to be rhetorical. Obviously nobody gets married expecting to get divorced. You would have stayed with a cheater? Nobody wants their child to go through a custody battle or having to grow up in two homes. It's not what we dreamed of as little girls. But in reality, we have to make the best of our situation that we are in. I don't know what kind of work you do, but as long as you are able bodied and not relying on a fixed amount check (like social security or disability), then there ARE options, like changing the kind of work you do, where you can make more, etc. I had my first child at 17 and went back to get my HS diploma when I was 19 (and 9 months pregnant with my 2nd child at graduation) i had my 3rd child at 21 and by 22 I was left alone to raise my kids. I rode the transit bus to the community college to attend classes & walked with the stroller to get groceries. I also worked minimum wage jobs and got rides or walked until I finally saved up enough to buy a clunker. When I was 23 or 24, I got together with a guy that had custody of his 3 kids. I worked at Target (for just over minimum wage) while I went to school. He was a police officer that worked graveyard shift so I got the kids up and off to school, then I went to school, then to work. He was home when they got home from school & he would feed them dinner. I got home and put them to bed while he got ready for work and left. Eventually I got a job with the Department of Social Services and continued college. Our relationship fell apart when I was 29 and found out he had no intention of marrying me and I had raised his kids for almost 7 years(their mom was MIA). The hardest part of leaving was worrying I wouldn't survive financially. I never received any child support for my kids. I worked full time (4 -10 hour days) and that gave me a 3 day weekend, so I worked a part time then. Almost four years ago, I resigned & cashed out my retirement account. I used it to start my own company and I've been doing that for three years now. It's been very tough, I've only been married for a year. When I met him almost three years ago, he made more than twice what I did. He still makes about the same as he did then & I am now making more than him. If I had stayed in my old job with vacation/sick days and insurance/retirement benefits, I would be making about a third what I make now. So, I don't believe ANYONE that works has a "fixed" income. (and I am running my company, caring for my step mom and my 8 year old step daughter full time too)