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Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Posted by tdwh (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 12, 08 at 6:19

This is a long one....My ex husband rang me to tell me he is planning to get married again in the summer. We split 3 1/2 years ago. He is Greek and went back to live in Greece. (I live in the UK)We have two little boys aged 6 and 7 who he visits once a month. He has them for the weekend. The boys also go to stay with him for 10-14 days in the summer and in the christmas holidays. This is very difficult for me as you can imagine. He doesn't always look after the boys the way I would like ( late bedtimes, lets them fight each other, lack of discipline, asleep on the sofa whilst they play, speeding and dangerous driving)) but i think it's important for them to see their dad and i know he loves them. His new partner seems ok although I know very little about her. She helps him to look after them and I think is a stabling influence although she is young and doesn't appear to have had much experience of children.
Anyway....he has asked me to fly the children over to him for the wedding. He wants to organise the wedding at at a time when the boys can come. My difficulty is....should I have to take them over? It will cost me a fair amount, it is to make his life easier ( he would normally come over and pick the boys up) and I think he wants me to do that so he can then give them back to me after the wedding and go off on honeymoon. I am not invited to the wedding and I am also worried about how the boys will cope with the day if they don't have their father to look after them (his mind will be on other things). I am not sure he realises how confusing this could be for the boys.Would it make it easier for the boys if I take them over? What should I tell him?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

No, it is not your responsiblity and no they should not fly alone. Its on him to come up with a reasonable solution (either him or close reletive coming and bringing back the boys or paying your air fare and lost time at work).


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

It is not your responsibility to take them to the wedding nor should you (IMO) have to pay for their airfare.

I think your ex-husband needs to make arrangements, like KKNY said, to come to the UK to get the boys. If you do decide to fly with them like he wants, then you should be reimbursed for airfare.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I would agree with KKNY with this one. Its his wedding and if he wants them over for the party thenits his responsibility to fly them, and he can make the arrangements for an aunt orhimself to come pick up his kids.
Since he comes once a month to visit i see no reason for you to fly them over and not be invited to the wedding.
As for his honeymood he can arrange for a relative to fly with them back.
BUT, in the end these are your boys and its their safety. If he cannot provide a relative to accompany them back and forth during this process he can at least pay for the fair for his kids to come and go.
I would also insist on some cash for you but he can turn about and say it was your decision to come and that you didnt' have to etc..etc....this could be a fight but try to tell him you are making his life easier by goign down, have the boys participate in the wedding and it would be nice for him to wash your hand as well...so to speak.
And im sure he will have cash available. Greek weddings have alot of cash flow going to the new couple and i'm sure if he needs help with you and the boys fair he can also ask his relatives. Greek relatives are more than happy to splurge when the need arises. I know...i'm greek


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I can see why he wants that -- You fly the boys down, bring them to the wedding, then get them safely out of the way so he can have his honeymoon. Very convenient for him, secure for the boys, comfortable for all - except you.

IMO, to make that package palatable and fair, he should offer to pay R/T airfare and hotel for all of you. And if he does that, it would be kind and gracious for you to agree. That said, you are under no obligation to be that kind and gracious. And at their age, the boys may not even care all that much about attending a wedding -- though if they do, they should be certainly be allowed to attend.

If it were me, I'd go, and make a weekend out of it. Do you have a girlfriend who'd like to go along to Greece for a mini-break? Having a friend along will help distract you emotionally from the wedding, and allow you to have a good time as well.


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absolutelly not

DD regularly traveled and travels to dad. all expenses are on him. under no circumstances would he expect me to pay for DD to be with him. I never paid and never took her. it was all on him. to arrange flights, to buy tickets etc. it is not your job to make sure kids see their dad. you should encourage but that's about it.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

FD, Did your children travel internationally at such a young age? Agreed now, my X is moving out of the country, and I will be glad to put DD on a plane to visit him. I think we have had discussions on this board before re ages of children flying. Now agreeed UK-Greece is not same as US London, but I would still say no to unacompanied at this age.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

There arent any airlines that will fly kids that young unaccompanied on an international flight anyway. I think the youngest they take is 8.

Dad should either arrange for a relative to come and pick the kids up, be responsible for them during the wedding, and return them after, or he should pay for the mom to fly with the kids and stay in a hotel. He still would need to have someone escort the kids to the actual wedding, since it would be uncouth, and insulting to his new wife, to expect his ex wife to attend with the children.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

The diplomatic thing to do is accompany your children, of course at dad's expense. If he wants his kids there, he should pay for it, not you. While he could send a relative, it would probably be more comfortable for the kids to travel with a parent, and since he is preoccupied with wedding activities, it's highly unlikely that he would be able to fly to pick up his children and of course, getting them back home might be a problem.

If there is no animosity (and it really doesn't sound like there is), I don't see why you can't have him fly you there. You can take it as a mini break and bring a friend as someone else suggested. He can send someone to the hotel to pick up the kids or you can drop them off at the wedding & pick them up.... maybe deal with a former in law if you get along well with one. It would show the kids that everyone can get along & might be a gesture that will be appreciated. (especially by your kids)

Regarding the new SM. If she is young and doesn't have much experience with children, and she is a stabling influence, she might be seen as more of an ally. She may have insecurities/concerns about her role in their life and the best thing for your children is for the two of you to get off on a positive note. There are a lot of preconceived notions about ex wives and new wives, you can show your maturity & willingness to put what's best for your children before whatever your own feelings are, whatever they may be. If you refuse to take the kids or make demands that they feel are unreasonable (even if they are not), or if this becomes a sticky mess, the fallout from it could last for a long time. That won't benefit your kids. What would benefit your kids is doing what you need to for them to feel secure and loved by both of their parents. Sometimes, that means 'sucking it up'.


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kkny

of course not at 6-7. we still lived close by then. and it would be too early. then at 9-10 dad flew back and forth. she started flying herself at 11 several times a year. unaccompanied minor. DD is a world traveller, she's been all over the place, she was always independent, even at 11. i would not send her with some obscure company though. But British Airways is a good one.

I would certainly not object putting anyone on the airplane either, but OP's X wants her to fly wiht kids and stay there and pay for everything, this I have a problem with.

PS My X didn't move, I did. we were moving together but got divorced in the process of moving.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Completely agree with Ima. Take a mini break in GREECE wow that would be fun! Of course he should pay for your ticket and his sons.

"it is not your job to make sure kids see their dad. you should encourage but that's about it."

This is of course your opinion, however, it is my opinion that it is in the best interest of every child to see both parents and as a parent you are responsible for making sure whatever is in their best interest is done. When kids are young sometimes you have to help out literally and not just encourage visitation. Just my opinion though.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I agree with previous posters:

If your schedule can accommodate it, take them... But Dad should be paying for your ticket and (reasonable) lodgings.
If you bring a friend along, then you and friend could split any additional cost (a larger room, maybe even her ticket)...
But for me, I LOVE solo travel! IIWY, I'd take the kids, but on wedding day, I'd go out on my own, do whatever the heck I felt like doing and enjoy a fabulous day in Greece.

Bottom line, yes, to keep the peace and to make the kids most comfortable, you should take them... But if Dad wants them there, he needs to pay for your costs of accompanying them.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

i think he should buy the tickets for you and the kids. i think it is important for them to be there. i would have no problem paying the tickets if i could afford it easily, but. i think i would ask him to pay half.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

My SK's have been flying as UMs since they were 5 & 8, when their mom moved them 1000 miles away. If there's a nonstop flight from London to Athens, I don't think it would be too big an issue. The airlines take very good care of the kids while in-flight, and have loads of paperwork at both ends for the adults that are putting them on and taking them off the plane. Of course, this is in the US, but I think most Euro airlines have similar policies.

That said, I think your ex is responsible for paying for their flights, as well as reimbursing you for the UM fees that they will charge you at the airport, and any other fees that may occur. Otherwise, he should come get them, as always.

I think, if I were in your shoes, I'd offer to fly w/the kids (at his expense), and make a weekend of it. I here Greece is beautiful!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

As I have said before, one time when my DD flew as an UM, AND WE PAID THE FEE, they still lost her. Do the children speak Greek?


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I think if one parent is uncomfortable with child flying alone, then it shouldn't happen.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I never felt comfortable until DD was 16 or so, but i was willing to take a risk. I am uncomfortable wiht many things. i don't like that DD rides a bycycle on busy city streets, walks from the bus late at night from work etc Gotta let it go sometimes. and frankly Greece is not that far from UK. couple fo hours direct flight. they can be supervised just fine. it is not like DD was for 10+ total hours on the airplane.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Unless someone can tell me the intracies of flying internationnally as a UM, I would not be giving advice. REalize this is all within the EU, but do you have to clear customs and immigration?


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

"Unless someone can tell me the intracies of flying internationnally as a UM, I would not be giving advice. REalize this is all within the EU, but do you have to clear customs and immigration?"

I have traveled within Europe--flew from Germany to Ireland and from London to Paris--and yes, I did have to go through customs. These trips were 10 and 8 years ago, respectively, but I doubt anything has changed.

I personally would not feel comfortable with my DD flying as an unaccompanied minor. I would just be too nervous--but I also tend to be overprotective in areas like that. So I do respect that other people feel differently. Just me personally--I would not do it.

I live in Missouri and DD's bio-dad lives in Idaho. When she was first born, I was very nervous about her eventually having to travel back and forth between the two states. But he has not seen her since she was 6 months old, so that has never been an issue---I have to admit, in that respect, I am glad!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

My point, in a domestic flight, the pickup partner can get a gate pass and actually see everyon walking off the plane (YET THEY STILL LOST DD), but what happens internationally? Does airline assign someone to walk child through customs and immigration?


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kkny on Europe travel

nothing needs to be cleared in EU, kkny. I travel to Europe few times a year from the US and also between countries in EU. No, nothing has to be cleared within EU. Within EU just get on the airplane, get off. That's it.

If you are US citizen you do go through customs once when entering EU, then travel inside EU wiht no custom and immigartion, nothing. Nobody even checks your passport.

If you are EU citizen or legal resident, you don't have to do customs and immigration at all. Europe has no borders anymore.


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more answer to KK

yes when DD was travelling as UM from Europe to US and back, officials did customs and immigration with a child, they go through customs with a child. Then they take a child outside the area and wait for the parent to pick child up. Only parent can pick, no one else (or whoever else has authorization). Someone is wiht a child the whole time. legally they are obligated to stand by all the time.

But once again in EU there is no customs anymore. It is like travelling inside US.

believe me I am an expert on UM issues and international travel. lol


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Still have problems with the language issue

At least when your DD got off in london she could talk to everyone.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

And most airline employees speak English...even in Europe.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

And what happens if they lose their way when they get off the plane? These are very young children. I think you are bending over backwards to support Dads position.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

"I think you are bending over backwards to support Dads position."

What does that mean? Dad wants mom to bring the kids, it sounds like it would be at her expense and she is reluctant. Who is bending over backwards to support dad's position? Has his position been stated? It sounds as if OP is assuming some things, that I would probably assume as well and she knows her kids better than any of us do. However, I can say that if OP is conveying anxiety over dad's wedding to her kids, they will pick that up.

I stand by my suggestion that she should take the kids, make a weekend of it, as long as he pays. She shouldn't have to finance (or go into debt) to ensure the kids attend his wedding. (that would go the other way if she were asking him to pay for the kids to attend her wedding, so it has nothing to do with it being mom or dad getting married... you want the kids at your wedding, pay for it!) From the OP, it seems she is worried about how confusing it will be for the kids to be at dad's wedding, where he may be preoccupied with his new bride... who will look after the kids? Then he is taking off on his honeymoon, will the kids take that very well? I really don't think the post is about children traveling alone, it's about whether she should put herself out to make sure the kids are there. I say YES, if he is willing to pay her way, her kids would be most comfortable with her taking them. If he isn't willing to pay for them to go, then he should make other arrangements that don't include sending young kids by themselves, when mom has concerns over how they will feel over the entire situation. If he refuses to pay, mom has the choice to suck it up and pay so her kids can be at dad's wedding (assuming that they want to be there) or keep the kids home. But, as Maria points out, lots of money gets spent on weddings and one of the costs should include paying for kids to be there. It's not mom's responsibility but if the kids really want to go and dad simply won't pay, then mom is faced with doing what's best for the kids. If the kids are going to suffer anxiety or resentment if they miss dad's wedding, it may require her to take the high road and take them. If the kids won't care, she could keep them home. Only OP knows her situation and her kids.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Tdwh - Where are you?
What's happening with this?
And is your Ex offering to pay your travel costs as well?


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

kkny-
As UM's they have an airline employee assigned to them from beginning to end...until the appointed person picks them up. They would de-plane on their own. A flight attendant walks them off and waits w/them until Dad (or appointed designee) signs for them. How would they get lost getting off the plane.

Don't get me wrong. I was always nervous when SKs were flying as UMs when they were little, but we never had any problems.

And I agree that if it were possible, OP should fly w/kids (at Dad's expense) and make a lovely holiday of it.


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Unaccompanied Minors

Oops...
Should have read: "They would NOT de-plane on their own".

And just for clarification, in case anyone misunderstands the terminology, an "unaccompanied minor" is a youngster travelling without a parent (or someone over 18). However, they are assigned to a specific flight attendant, so they really aren't "unaccompanied" after all. I remember being a little confused by the term when we initially started dealing with the issue.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

My DD flew UM and THEY LOST HER. SOMEHOW SHE LEFT THE PLANE ON HER OWN. OK -- it happened to me. By double standard, I see a lot of people encouraging young children to fly alone to see Dad. I wonder what would be the answer if it were to visit mom.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

kkny-
How scary! How old was she?

I think most kids that have to fly to see the NCP, have their dad as the NCP. Because it is usually the mom who gets custody, regardless of what is best for kids. I imagine that if dads got custody more often, we'd be having this discussion about kids flying UM to visit Mom. And I'd bet that the discussion would be exactly the same.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

"I wonder what would be the answer if it were to visit mom."

I don't think it matters WHO the child is going to see. My daughter wanted to go meet her dad two years ago, flying from CA to TX. She was 16 and had never flown, was afraid to fly. If her dad wasn't willing to fly up to accompany her, I would have gotten on the plane and gone with her at my expense if necessary, I would not want her afraid. Unfortunately, she never went because he continually lied to her over the phone and she finally decided she didn't want to meet him... ever.

Now, I guess we can all debate which parent loves their child more.... one that won't fly with them or one that will... or the one that is willing to pay for it or the one that won't.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

KKNY that must have been horrifying. But I really think that was a fluke occurance. I would fly over 3000 miles each summer growing up with three connections and I was never lost. But I never left the plane on my own or my assigned stewardess/steward, nor would they have let me on my own. I was given strict instructions by my parents and by the staff that I would wait for instructions and guidence before going anywhere. Whenever there was a layover we'd always go to the lounge and they would check me in at the door, then the lounge supervisor would watch me. Everyone was always very considerate.

I think the reason more young children fly to see dad is that mom is usually CP.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

It was terrible. My X was at the other end. The airline had combined two flights becasue of weather, etc. Somehow the flight attendant team was changed after she boarded. And yes she was wearing the UM button. Yes generally they are considerste, but I beleive the airlines are running on a shoestring at times. What I am saying is that the people who urge OP to just send her kids UM should think about it.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

I can't imagine. Have you ever asked her why she got off the plane by herself?

I agree that people should think before just sending off UM casually. I had to think long and hard before sending my DD one state away UM. But I think she's old enough, and there shouldn't be weather problems.


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no language barriers

KK, she was not flying to London UM ever, only as a connecting flight once in a while.

In any case there is no language barrier anywhere you fly as a UM because they are supposed to provide you wiht whoever speaks the language you need. She used to fly Lufthanza, Air France etc. DD speaks French, but not German. they spoke to her whatever she needed to. they did try to speak German to her on Lufthanza when she was 11, but she said I don't speak German, so they switched to whatever she wanted.

when it comes to English, it is the easiest one, every flight attendant on inetrnational airpline speaks English.

KK your story is horrible! I would never fly that same company again.


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English

"when it comes to English, it is the easiest one, every flight attendant on inetrnational airpline speaks English. "

I am not certain that is true. Many of the people I work with are from overseas, and they say they have to be very fussy with which airline their parents fly on whenthey come to visit. And all these "supposed to" dont make feel very good. I dont think it is anyone's place to recommend 5/8 yr olds fly as UMs.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

If you have child who cannot or will not follow directions/instructions and NOT get off the plane unless accompanied by their assigned flight attendant, then I agree...they shouldn't fly UM. If they can follow simple instructions, it shouldn't be problematic, ESPECIALLY on a direct flight.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Nicksmom, good point. If your child can follow directions, ask for help if confused and above all not go where they shouldn't there should be no issue "ESPECIALLY on a direct flight"!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

A 5 and 8 year old? And on my DDs flight, there was no flight attendant who thought he/she was assigned. And asking for help -- if they dont speak the language. I give up. I keep forgetting the basic rules here.

1. SMs are perfect.

2. SMs kids are perfect.

Thanks for reminding me.


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UM problems

http://www.flyana.com/um.php

Read for problems re UMs. And btw, 5 is the youngest age anyone would consider.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

kkny~
I think it's terrible that your daughter had problems as a UM. I think, however, that it is the exception, not the rule. And 5 is the youngest that any airline will accept, and then only on non-stops. They have lots of rules/regs in place to avoid the problems your daughter had.

But again:
1.How old was she?
2. And what language did the flight crew speak?

As for the rest of your post (you know, the snide comments)...I continue to wonder why you are on this board. All that your comments like that do, is show your total lack of understanding of any of OUR issues, as step-parents.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

"SMs kids are perfect."

That's redundant! If they are SM's kids, she's not SM, she's BM to her kids.... Gosh!!!


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RE: SM's kids are perfect

Yeah, duh!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

SMs have kids. At least some of them.

I am trying to remember how old she was. But it doesnt matter. Dont blame the victim. The airline screwed up.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Yes, the airline screwed up. But if your DD was old enough (or had flown enough of these trips) to know better than to get up and leave the aircraft without the accompaniment of flight crew, then she contributed. If she was 5 or 6, big problem on the part of the airline. If she was 10, she needed a good scolding from you after the fact.

And the fact remains, that while it did happen to your daughter, it is most definitely the exception. Otherwise, airlines couldn't afford to continue to offer these services.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

People here are suggesting that a 5/8 combo travel as UM. That is in essence having an 8 YO babysit a 5 yo in a strange place. But so Dad can be happy. Oh but wait, all the SM brigade is saying its for the kids. Somehow its OK for dads to move, but if moms do, they get blasted. Stop with the double standard. If he wants the kids to come, he should travel with them, or beg mom and pay her.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Atleast it wasn't "eye candy's" fault.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Pseudo, I never said it was. And I never said it was Xs fault. What I am saying is that people who advocate 5/8 combo flying as UM are being overly accomodating to Dad.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Nine people agreed with you that dad should pay for mom to accompany the children to the wedding .... Nicksmom said her SC have been flying since they were 5/8 because mom moved away .... so in that case mom should have gotten on the flight with her babies .... or should dad have even though mom was the one who moved away ? dad paid for the travel expenses for his children guessing he should have paid for the ex-wife too although she moved away with courts permission because her new hubby was going to provide a "better life" for the kids. But apparently they didn't want a better life they wanted their dad.

See personally I think the parent who moves away from the other parent whether or not they take the kids should be responsible for travel expenses ....

So if you pack up your kids and move away you're responsible for travel related to visitation.

You move away from your kids you are responsible for travel expenses related to visitation.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Yeah, what pseudo said!


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RE: UMs

Oh, and BTW, I wasn't suggesting that these kids of 5 & 8 travel as UMs. I just said that what MY stepkids did...successfully I might add. They did it for many years. As a matter of fact, SD turned 15 this year, so just stopped flying as a UM. It can be done, and is done every single day by many, many kids. And I'm not saying it's for dad or the kids, or whoever. It just is. Dad's getting married. Asked his ex to bring the kids. If I were her, I'd happily oblige so long as he's paying expenses. It's a win-win for everyone then. But if it couldn't be worked out, then I'd be OK putting them on a non-stop flight with Dad at the other end of the flight. What's the big deal?


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

My SK's have been flying as UMs since they were 5 & 8, when their mom moved them 1000 miles away. If there's a nonstop flight from London to Athens, I don't think it would be too big an issue

----------------

I think you were suggested the kids fly as UM, and you are continuing to do so.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

You know whats funny....

We are all debating this and OP hasn't said anything since day one of this post so guessing its a moot point.

Not really an issue we all need to discuss since OP isn't reading any of the advice.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

KKNY, I don't think there's anything wrong with kids flying UM at a young age. I did it, and tons of others do it every day. What happened to your child was unfortunate, but had a happy ending.

Please, how old was your child who was lost? Even at a young age I knew not to get off the plane by myself. I'd never let my child go with people who did not speak the same language as her (unless they were family, because we do have that in our family and somehow we all manage to communicate). If your daughter had stayed on the plane, as I was instructed by both my parents and the flight crew, she most likely would not have been "lost". I think your daughter was too immature to fly on her own. That's not bad, it's just some kids mature later than others and it's up to the parents to decide when their children are old enough to make good decisions and judgements. I have many friends who were flying UM at four (back when we sat in first class, met the pilot and got wings). None of them ever got lost.

And I'm a BM, who moved away from DD's father, and who is advocating my DD going to fly UM to see her grandparents.

And Pseudo, that really is ironic!!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

And if you look at the website I posted plenty of kids have the same problem my DD did.

btw, when my X went to the gate, he was told there were NO UMs on the plane. The flight attendandts had been told no UMs on board. Had she stayed on the plane, she might hav ended up somewhere else. So please stop blaming a child. This was an airline screwup, and thepresident of the airline called my X to apologize.

5 is the absolut miniminum to fly.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

kkny~

You know, it's really funny. Anything SMs say here is black and white, while you have all sorts of gray area. At any rate, if you really look at what I said, I said that MY stepkids did it, and it has never been problematic, and that I (I - I - I) wouldn't have a big problem w/UK to Athens with young kids, so long as there was a non-stop. I hope that makes it easy enough for you to understand.

And yeah, pseudo...you're right. Hmmmm......


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

silverswood, well if KK's daughter was 5 or less it is too early to expect any maturity of her, she had to rely on adults doing their job. I don't think any 5 year old can be expected to be that mature and to make this kind of decision. And some 4-year-olds don't even speak that well.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Alright, say OPs kids get on the flight and little 5 YO needs to use bathroom, asks person on aisle to move, person doesnt speek english. Good luck. All I know is I wouldnt put 5/8 on flight for 3.5 hour (at best, that is London -- Athens, assumes dad lives in Athens,mom in London) and asusmes flight on time.

Your right Nicks Mom, a lot of things I dont see as black and white. But encourageing someone you dont know to have a 5/8 combo fly alone is reckless.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

KKNY if that mom puts her kids on a plane because "nicksmom" said she did well then she has more problems to worry about than an ex getting married.

She might to rethink her parenting abilities if she can only make parenting decisions based on a bunch of people on a forum.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Has kkny said how old her DD was? I can't find it. If she was flying UM, where was she going? KKNY has only been divorced a couple of years and her DD is 16 going on 17. Even five or so years ago, she'd have been 10-12. That's old enough to have SOME common sense and not need constant supervision. If she didn't have the common sense or maturity, then she had no business flying UM at all.

There is no right or wrong answer, sometimes kids NEED to fly UM and as a parent, if my child were not confident/comfortable traveling alone, I'd go with.. even if I had to pay my own ticket. (or not let them go) It all depends on the age as well as the maturity of the child. I've met 5 year old children that are more mature than a 12 year old.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

There are very few complaints made to the Federal Aviation Administration, regarding UMs. For example, in 1999, 124 of 20438 complaints involved unaccompanied minors. ...

The risk is very small, but I imagine very scary to those parents whose um goes missing or has a problem.

IMO, the need of the child to see their non custodial parent outranks such a small risk. Air travel can be expensive, and the difference of a child flying unaccompanied, and the child having a parent with fly them, is a difference of at least 1:3. Instead of it costing 500 a visit, it would cost 1500 a visit. I note that most often, its the parent that DOESNT have to pay for the visits that objects most strenously to the use of UM service.

Also, just for thought, courts almost unamimously rule that a child be allowed to fly as an UM, when the custodial parent brings it as a court challenge, as long as the child is as least 8. Thats pretty well across all states, and with several states, its written into their visitation guidelines.

If it bothers a custodial parent so much to send a child using a relatively safe UM service, then they should be able to, at their own cost and their own time, accompany the child. But to object and try to force the non custodial parent to pay for three flights instead of one, is unfair, unjust, and against the best interest of the child.

That being said, a five year old is not old enough for UM service on an international flight, or a flight that is not non stop.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

The only children that NEED to fly UM were along the lines of Jewish children leaving Germany in the 30s. And there have been misplaced children as old as 16 -- when weather, etc cause flight changes, the airlines may not care about children.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Finedreams, children can't fly alone at 4 anymore. I'm saying that was the case when I was a kid and none of them ever had any problems. Now I believe the child has to be over the age of 5 and many airlines won't take them on anything but a direct flight.

Imamommy, I agree completely with you.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

This thread has taken a turn for the ridiculous...

Is there anyone here that would not support the BioMom's decision to send her two young children UM on a direct non-stop flight if she wanted to?

Is there anyone here that would not support the BioMom's decision to refuse to send her two young children on an international flight UM?

"Unaccompanied Minor" wasn't even mentioned in the original post!

Are you all just spoiling for a fight? Any fight?


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

at 10 or 12 kids cannot get lost on airplane unless they are not verbal, but nonverbal kids would not be travelling alone anyways. I assumed we talked about little kids travelling, not preteens.

In case of OP mom should not be paying for kids to attend dad's wedding. If she wants to pay i don't care but I wouldn't. His wedding, he pays. she also does not have to pay for her own ticket because it is dad's wedding not hers. But sending kids to see dad could be fine.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

"And there have been misplaced children as old as 16 -- when weather, etc cause flight changes, the airlines may not care about children."

That must be one hell of a dee-dee-dee 16 year old is all I can say:) I traveled by plane alone a good few times. I was around the ages of 7, 10 and 12 when I traveled. I never got "mis-placed" but then again I was pretty sharp. It was only from Florida to Cali but there were always multiple hold overs to get through and I managed fine. All you have to do is read the flight schedules for delays and at 16 you shoul be able to handle THAT and use a pay phone if necessary.That's ME though so don't everyone start laying eggs on me just because I said I handled it fine. Depends on the kids maturity level and coping abilities I suppose.....some kids need a have their hands held more than others. My parents taught me to do things for myself at a pretty young age.

As far as the OP goes. Where the hell is she? Anyway, I would say mom should accompany and dad should pay. Easy enough. Then everyone is covered ans should be happy. Five years old would be a little too young for me to be comfortable with especially since it's an international flight. I can't imagine sending my girls alone somewhere that far away with my nephew alone. I would have nightmares. LOL.


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Dallas Dallas

oh common at 16 you do not even need to travel UM, you can travel alone. You cannot get lost. exactly doodle, at 16 anyone can get around unless of course they have some serious issues.

Or....

Unless maybe you speak language that no one knows? I flew back to Detroit from London last spring and next to me was this Chinese lady maybe my age. She had no clue what was going on, she spoke no other language but mandarin or Cantonese or one of those.

She did not know what to do with custom papers so i helped her somehow.

but the most scary thing was that she was supposed to go to Dallas, and she was on connecting flight but she did not know. When she heard Detroit she got hysterical, repeating Dallas Dallas. I tried to explain that she will go through immigration in Detroit and then get back on airplane to go to Dallas but she was hysterical, I asked flight attendants they did not know what to do. When we got off the airplane I could not do anything because she had to go through immigration and I just went where Americans go.

I showed her where to go, took her there hoping they would take care of her but she was incoherent just repeating Dallas Dallas. Poor woman. Hopefully they got her where she was going.

But i assume we are not talking about people speaking only Chinese.


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dee-dee-dee

You crack me up, doodle!


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Do you think I'm sarcastic? People always laugh at me and say I'm a little dry and sarcastic....hahahaha. I guess what I think just comes out of my mouth alot of the times:)

Finedreams-

I can understand how the language barriercould cause serious problems even for an adult. I imagine the flight at age 7 would of been far more difficult for me if I couldn't understand what the heck anybody was saying. I'm sure it would of been a little scary too.


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

no, doodle...I think you're a hoot! I can always count on coffee coming out my nose when you've posted! Thanks for keeping things light and in perspective!!!

And I was referring to this post of yours:
"That must be one hell of a dee-dee-dee 16 year old is all I can say:)"


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Dee-dee-dee is one of my new favorite phrases:)
Thanks Carlos Mancea! Everything and everybody is dee-dee-dee these days to me...must be the pregnancy grumpies. HAHAHAHAHA.

I'm glad I make you laugh Nicksmom...I think I tend to piss a few folks off with my bluntness. Maybe I should go into radio or something....


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RE: Ex husband getting married ...kids to attend

Reminds me of the time my older son (about 12 at the time) got off the school bus somewhere. Where? I'm still not completely sure! (Now, this is the smart kid, not the one who really is 'dee-dee-dee'. That kid has enough sense to actually ask an adult where the heck he is, and maybe could that adult call his mom? Or better yet, to stay on the stinking school bus if he doesn't know where he is! Nope - This is the smart kid...)

So we live on a tiny little street accessible only from a small street, which was under construction for some time a few years ago. Apparently one day, that small street was under so much construction that the school bus couldn't even turn down onto that street -- so they didn't. (At least, according to my kid, they didn't.) I don't know what happened to the other 20 kids or so who also live off this small street, but at some point, My Kid (the smart one) gets off the school bus alone and calls me to come pick him up. Thank goodness he had a cell phone!

Him: Hi Mom - Can you pick me up?
Me: Huh? Hey - You're late. Where are you?
Him: Well...
Me: Are you at school?
Him: No - I'm on that street.
Me: What? What street? What happened to the school bus?
Him: Well - you know - that other street.
Me: That other street?
Him: Yeah - you know - that other street.
Me: Near us?
Him: I think so. Can you come get me?
Me: You want me to get in the car and come and get you, but you can't tell me where you are?
Him: Yeah.
Me: That could take a while...
Him: Why? Can't you leave now?
Me: Yeah - but where should I go? You want me to just drive around?
Him: Yeah.
Me: No.
Him: Wha?
Me: You got off the school bus and you don't even know where you are? Is that what you're saying? And now you want me to get in the car and come look for you? What were you thinking?!
Him: Wha?
Me: OK - Look for a street sign. What does it say?
Him: A street sign? What do they look like?
Me: Wha?
Him: OK - It says 'Bunker Hill' (a street, but also our neighborhood - not sure which he means)
Me: OK - Now can you find another one?
Him: Wha?
Me: If you can give me two street signs, I'll know where you are.
Him: No - there's just one.
Me: Are you on a big street or a little one?
Him: Sorta
Me: Sorta?...
Him: Yeah.
Me: OK - can you see any streets that are bigger than the one you're on?
Him: Yeah.
Me: OK - Walk toward that street. Any more signs?
Him: No
Me: OK, I'm going to guess. You keep walking toward the big street, and when you get to the corner, stay there.

I guessed more or less correctly, and had a nice long talk with "the smart one" about actually plugging in his brain and turning it on...


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