kkny, yeah it got much worse as I got older. I dont know if she was narcissistic, some of the description fits but some doesn't. And of course I'm not a professional. I do know that she was prescribed meds she refused to take and had a rough childhood. I do think she told me the diagnosis but I was much younger and plain didnt care at that point, I had had enough of her issues for a lifetime lol.

But yeah, this is reminding me of looney tune time. The key thing to remember and what I was taught, was that when an event is about YOU....it is about YOU, not other people's feelings. Its ok to have your own thoughts and own feelings about your own events. It's kind of a mind game because looking at the vampires world you subconsiously try to stay away from being what appears to be selfish. You are hyper aware of what selfish is, even when it is a good time to be selfish you try to minimize it to make the vampire comfortable. And that was the problem here, the vampire became uncomfortable.....so everyone else is scrambling or is supposed to scramble to make her comfortable again.....all over an event that is not about her! ta-da! vampire wins again.

Well Therm says that "others" agree with her. Gee LoveHadley and "others", now that we've heard SM bought dress when SD wasnt even there (oh right, Thermo thinks mom still to blame) -- please come back with your opinion.

I read your post and found it too amusing to make a decision. I keep trying to type but end up laughing too hard to compose my thoughts. I guess I've finally made a decision to respond to you since here I am uselessly typing....again. You keep twisting my words to give them your own meaning and strip them of what I say so they conform to your agenda. You accuse I say things I never said. You inform me of things as if I didn't already acknowledge them. You confuse the issues so the point of the matter is as lost on others as it is on you. Why do you keep asking people to give you more of those same opportunities? Why have you nothing better to do? And who else besides idiot me wants their contributions to the discussion to be switched around like some kind of con game? I wouldn't doubt people feel as I do that this subject is exhausted, and you and mom of 2.5 are never going to get it.

sorry, used a bad example.

What I was trying to get across is that mom's behavior didn't cause the "explosion".

The explosion was caused by stepmom & by dad...exploding.

I reiterate, though, that daughter needs to *not* be asked if she wants mom to intervene;

this nonsense is adult stuff, & mom should have called dad & said, I'm buying/I've bought the dress, don't take if out on our daughter, this is her first dance, don't ruin it for her, get yourself & your wife back in bounds & under control, get a life & get over it.

in a smiling, friendly way.

Yes, Sylvia that is good advice, D needs "not" to be asked. I might tell Dad, frankly D asked that I not speak to you, but really this is between us not her. And then say we're both sorry if SM got upset, that was not anyone's intention. Next time, why dont you just let me do dress stuff, it just upsets SM. You'll always get to the father/dad stuff.

I agree with Thermometer when she said....."If not out and out lying, DD is deliberately misleading her mother. Perhaps to spare her feelings. Perhaps to keep her mother from knowing she shares and enjoys a relationship with her stepmother. DD told them everything. DD picked out a dress. It is convenient for her to say she had no idea sm was going to purchase the dress."

This is a child that knows how to play both ends against the middle and is now a skilled teenager doing the very same thing. She has known from the age of 9 that SM would do anything BM wouldn't allow. I could totally see a 9 year old girl asking SM to help her shave her legs because BM wouldn't allow it. I think SM should have talked to BM or told DD to talk to BM before doing it, but I could see a young inexperienced SM eager to bond with her SD and wanting to help her out with a perceived embarassing problem. Same thing with lip waxing.

My sister has been shaving my 10yo neice's legs for a few years now. She was a preemie and has dark hair. Anyone who knows about preemies knows they are excessively hairy. My neice is even very self-concious of the hair on her back, but my sister said she won't mess with that until she is older.

Sweeby - remember how you were saying your DS was a completely different person when he was at BD's house than he was at your house? My DS is. When he's at dad's house, he likes Nascar, cuts the grass, eats stuff he doesn't eat at my place, works on cars, and even dresses different. Of course he's the same person, but he lives 2 completely separate lives. Even when we are all at the same place. If it's his dad's weekend, he goes to X's GF for things. If it's my weekend, he comes to me for things.

Maybe SD in this post is like that. Maybe she likes different things when she's at Dad's house. Maybe she saw the awful dress online while with BM but actually liked it and showed it to SM when she got there?

You all need to remember that this girl is a teen. Teens are manipulative. Period. And when OP said "How do I encourage her to stand up for herself?", maybe the DD needs to learn how to stand up for herself from BM too.

Mom of 2.5 - I believe (from all of your previous posts and this one) that you are a great mom. I'm not trying to say anything otherwise. Sometimes we don't even know that reactions we don't remember can cause our kids to not want to talk to us about certain things. Is it possible that your reactions to either the pictures or dresses in person caused her to change her mind about what she wanted? If it were me, I would be thankful that dad helped out at all. I would probably fall down dead if my X got a tuxedo or suit for DS, whether borrowed or bought.

All of this being said, I believe Dad's reactions were totally out of line. He shouldn't have said what he did to her on text or punished her that way.

If the dress was such a big deal, dad should have given mom a heads up re dress BEFORE they bought it. I see no evidence that DD is the lying schemer that you think, BUT when the parents (and yes by that I mean the bioparents) communicate, it makes playing one against the other tougher. SM is supposedly an adult. She should have known better than to go along with any leg shaving and lip waxing. Would any responsible SM here have done that or just said call your mom. If SM participates in things with SD that mom thinks are age inappropriate, it is a recipe for disaster. SM is trying to "buy" freindship and that never works. There is no evidence I see that says manipulation. You are just speculating. Maybe it is happening with your skids, or maybe you see it behind every rock.

"What lunatic does what she did, buys dress for kid, without kid sitting right beside her and double checking everyhting."

Well....I guess I'm a lunatic, then. When I bought SD's dress for the wedding, I could get NO cooperation from BM or SD on sizes. I and DH asked SD and BM several times to send us measurements (she had just been fitted for her cheer uniform so I knew they had measurements). Every time it was the same answer "okay I'll find out when my mom gets home" or from BM "I'll have to find the paper it's on". We asked if BM could take her to the store in their city to try it on. They never had time.

Finally, we were within 2 weeks of the wedding and I was running out of time to get a dress altered because SD didn't like the length of the one in the picture but she liked everything else about it. We tried calling and texting both her and BM once more, but no answer. SD and I are the same height so I put different sizes of dresses on and tried to gauge how much more weight I had on me than she did the last time I had seen her. DH helped, too, and we bought a dress. The thing was that we weren't going to see her until the day before we left town to get married. So there was no time to wait until she got here.

We bought a dress and I took it to my seamstress to get it shortened. The thing everybody neglected to tell me (and maybe they didn't know just how drastic it was) was that since SD had last visited 6 weeks before, she had been cheering a lot and had gained some serious muscles.

The dress didn't fit. We tried to stuff her into it and she was nearly in tears thinking she would have nothing to wear at the wedding. She actually could've barely fit into it (with a little back-butt) except for the zipper broke in half the day of the wedding.

Thank God we got so blessed to be able to find a dress in that town that would work.

But it just goes to show how important communication is. If she'd have given me any sort of sizes or measurements, we weouldn't have bought 2 dresses and had one altered so it couldn't be returned.

So I guess you can just stick me in the lunatic bin since I loved my SD and wanted her to be happy so much that I went through all that trouble for her to have a dress she loved when she couldn't be bothered to help out.

Ashley, your comparing outfitting your SD for YOUR wedding, something important to YOU and centered around YOU (as it should be, you were the bride) with outfitting a girl for her first dance, something important to her. You are comparing your situtation withe one where the mom was reading willing and able to help. Two entirely different situations. Asking your DHs X to help wiht anything related to your wedding is a little iffy. Not the present situation.

And comparing picking out a tux for a boy with a dress for a girl isnt exactly the same either.

If you cant see the differnce between these situations, then I question how accurate you are about describing your own situations.

The likelihood, in my experience & from whatever observations that I've been able to make, is that kids usually tell one parent "don't tell other parent", not for manipulation but because they flinch at the thought of what'll be in store for them from the "other parent".

which sounds like a well-grounded fear here;
the guy grounded her for picking a dress she liked better than...whatever.

"Maybe it is happening with your skids, or maybe you see it behind every rock."

Just like you seem to think that every SM is TOW? Sorry, KKNY, but you don't have SK so you don't know how they play both ends against the middle. I know my SD and DS do it occasionally. And I bet you can ask every parent here, both BP and SP, and they'll tell you it's a fact of divorced life.

BUT, you are right, if the BP communicate, it is much harder for that to happen. That's why DS doesn't get away with it half as much as SD. I communicate with my X. BM won't communicate with DH UNLESS it's something she wants. Other than that she avoids answering any of his questions.

Therometers insistance here made me wonder what backstory I had missed as I've not been here long. So I went back and read some older posts.

While I've not changed my opinion that this whole dress flare-up could have been easily avoided with a bit of communication between Dad and Mom long prior to purchase of any dresses occured, I can see a bit better where some of Therometers strong thoughts and insistance in them may come from. While I'm not saying I agree or disagree entirely with all stated, one quick example shines some light.

I'm not willing to totally let Mom off the hook of maybe being partially responsible in what has happened and why SM might get the impression sometimes it's okay yet other times 'don't you dare'.

Stated above was "You even acknowledge that they buy lots of DD's clothes, even more than you do. That confirms everything I have said about why that dress was purchased and others were acquired. She was not overstepping her bounds, whether she has in the past had boundary issues or not. They were doing what they normally do and what DD asked of them as she normally does"---

Looking back a quote of OR from March of this year:

"I bet my kids' SM's say similar things about me. I have snapped at them a few times, I have denied the rights to my children from time to time, and reminded my two ex's that "I didn't make babies or bills with her, my business is with you, and she can butt out!" Sometimes, I'm sure, my mood at the time making me a bit irrational. I have allowed SM to transport kids when it is convenient for me, and denied her the very next weekend because she sprung it on DD at the last minute. It wouldn't have hurt anything to let her pick her up. That was just me making sure everyone knew I'm in charge!

Because this moment of clarity is not likely to extend beyond this post and I'm not likely to apologize to my own SM's...I will apologize to all you SM's here.

Us BM's can be irrational, inconsistent, and sometimes just plain B#thchy."-----

I stated earlier Dad was sending double messages, but I think there's also a bit of reason to think Mom also sends double messages to Dad and also maybe especially SM.

Maybe some clear and consistent communication needs worked on by all adults who are raising this child. She's 14 and just entering HS, the adults and child are likely to all be 'basketcases' by the time the girl reaches 18 and I think it's a toss up as to who and which time who is to blame.

It sounds to me that OP is more than willing to evaluate herself fairly (or possibly even negatively), and for that she is chastised. I doubt the SM sees things that way. As to getting upset with last minute changes in plans, many of the SMs do here to. As to the language that OP uses - "I didn't make babies or bills with her, my business is with you, and she can butt out!" -- its a little salty for my taste, but I agree with the sentiment.

How many SMs complain that mom wont do a thing, yet if she does they compalin also.

So what if both parents buy clothes -- the flip side of this is D wears what she wants and neither parent says wear only my stuff. Oh except now, with SM.

KKNY - It doesn't matter what the situation is, buying a dress for a girl without her sizes and measurements never turns out well and that was the only comparison I was making. Plain and simple.

But it doesn't make someone a lunatic. It may equal a bad decision. But it doesn't make them stupid or whatever. And since NONE of us (even OP) know what really went on when SM ordered that dress, we can't speculate on SM's level of sanity, can we?

I CAN see the difference. As I recall you were told in this very post that you were comparing apples to....what was it again? Oh yeah.....a dishwasher. You're pretty good at comparing apples to diswashers but calling them apples.

I could really care less if you deem my situations valid or accurate or not. For all we know any of us could just be making all this crap up.

My point in posting that, kkny, was not to smack hands, it was to point out that I think a bit of consistancy and lots of communication could make life of co-parenting in this situation a whole lot easier and less drama filled.

The only person I have to co-parent with is my husband and even in that situation husband and I both have to work on communication and making sure we at least appear in agreement on issues and events in front of daughter. If we're not, the issues are worked out behind the scene between each other. Sometimes I have to work extra hard to be on the same wavelength as DH, but if I let my daughter know that, she'd run right over us.

Honestly it really isn't a SM vs BM event. I don't hate her SM, most of the time I don't even mind her. I honestly would not have cared if SM had taken her to the mall and tried on 20 dresses, and either bought it herself or put it on hold for me to go pick up. Most of the time we all work very well together with my daughters best interest at heart. That's kinda why this whole thing being such a big deal caught me so off guard.

". . . Nothing she has written makes me believe she really understands what is going on here or her own role in making it all worse, which is the reason I gave up . . ."

Most of the time we all work very well together with my daughters best interest at heart. That's kinda why this whole thing being such a big deal caught me so off guard.

Bingo again.

Thermometer, all OP is showing is how fair she tries to be. Its not working well when pyscho SM gets her daugther a raxor and wax job. And it doesnt matter if D wanted it. D was 9. SM was susposedly an adult. It seems to me that OP has the patience of a saint, and SM has taken advantage of her. Therm, do you have a D? How would you feel if SM were doing these things?

I am done with you, KKNY.

Ok, well I think the rest of us know how we would feel about a SM doing these things. It just shows how OP has tried to be fair.

OP, some people when you try to be fair, view it as weekness.

welcome to the club therm :)

"OP, some people when you try to be fair, view it as weekness."

Not at all! I simply think that when a BioMom says a StepMom is not bad, then StepMom is NOT bad. And when a StepMom says BioMom's really a pretty reasonable person, then BioMom is REALLY a pretty reasonable person. Think about it -- if ever there were two people set up to dislike each other -- it's got to be a BioMom and StepMom. Sure, there's an incentive to get along -- It's best for the children. But SO MANY ways for them to antagonize each other!

Sure - OP is trying to be fair to StepMom. OP has acknowledged there have been boundary issues and turf wars. Yep - And every one of us has sided with BioMom on those issues, agreeing that StepMom overstepped her proper bounds! I did defend SM's probable motives to a certain extent, arguing probable cluelessness or desire-to-bond over malicious intent -- But that's about the extent to which anyone is siding with StepMom.

So KKNY -- Why do you insist on calling her Psycho? When even BioMom says she's 'OK'? If BioMom says she's generally OK, I'm gonna believe her, because if she wasn't, you can bet BioMom would be saying so! That's just how it works.

LOL Thanks for the welcome, Pseudo Mom. Pass the cookies, please.....and the psychotropics.

KK is on another bio-mom bender Sweeby. I wouldn't waste my words.

I stand behind my original assessment even after the additional information learned. All it would have taken to prevent this entire mess was a call from mom to dad after D came home with the dresses asking for the back story and letting him know D wasn't thrilled with the options and would like the chance to keep looking. Then the texts and the new dress wouldn't have been such a shock. It really doesn't matter who bought the dresses, the sizes, the amount of effort, any of it. A simple call would have made all the difference, and kept D from this uncomfortable situation.

For people who get along well, it sounds like there needs to be more preemptive conversation in the future.

I couldn't sleep and it was 2am when I started reading this. It's now 2:30 - thanks for the read. It wore me out!

Gee maybe the leg shaving at 9, the lip waxing, the "lov mommy" indicates a SM who is a way overstepping. Oh right, SMs can do no wrong.

What would people here, who have daughters, think of a SM "responsilbe" for this? And I dont care if 9 year old asked for it.

My SD9 shaves and waxes per mom...

we all agreed she overstepped her bounds but mom 2.5 dealt with it .... no reason to carry a grudge for years after it happened she got over it (hint!)

I guess I'm wondering why that even matters for OP's actual issue, KK? The concern was not if the SM was responsible. You are harping on that to try and bring some validation to your SM bash. I think you know everyone's opinion on shaving et all, but your acknowledgement of my perfection as a SM is a nice way to start my day.

Back to the real issue, please?

No, the issue is were Dad and SM unreasonable about the dress and what should mom do. I believe past behaivor is a good predictor of future. SM is overstepping, SM and dad exploded unnecessarily. Mom seems concerned about daughter. Dad seems more concerned about his much younger wife, and her atititude. Its not uncommon for men to be concerned about how to keep their younger wives happy. We've all advised mom to try and smooth it over. My point is when you're dealing with unreasonable people, dont expect them to change. That is the definition of insanity -- keeping doing the same thing and expecting change.

I've seem many SMs here harping about irresponsible moms, and the message includes watch your back. Why should it be any different for a mom?

kkny, have you ever heard the term "displacement"? http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/displacement.htm

Because sometimes, I don't think that you do it on purpose, but I think that because you are still angry about your own situation, you "displace" that onto others and every SM who makes a "bad" decision is "Imbelic" (I think you meant IMBECILE btw) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile),"cheap", "insensitive", a "jerk", "physco" (I think you meant "psycho"), a "control freak", "overbearing", an "idiot", a "nutjob" or a "lunatic". You also say things like this to the OP:

kkny said:
"And OP, I am not kidding physco SM and dad will very likely decide your D is an ingrate. They are control freaks. TALK TO A LAYWER. D IS AT AN AGE WHERE SHE CAN HAVE SOME SAY ON VISITATION, AND THIS SITUATION IS LIKELY TO GET WORSE. You may want to get D counseling in how to deal with physco SM."

That seems to me to be displacing your anger that you have at your ex and at his GF and throwing it at the SM of mom_of_2.5's DD because something about this post probably triggered something in you, perhaps an unhappy or upsetting memory.

No, I am merely trying to advise someone. Just because you dont agree with me, no need to attack. There are many SMs here who will make every excuse to attack a child's mother, yet will make every excuse to stick up for inappropriate behavior of a SM. Perhaps they have been treated unfairly, as a SM.

I offer advise becuase I see a woman who sincerely wants to help her D, and a father who evidently beleives in the "marriage first" school advocated by many SMs here, even when SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter.

" My point is when you're dealing with unreasonable people, dont expect them to change
"

But KKNY this is not the case here. Mom_of_2.5 has said repeatedly that she usually maintains a good relationship with her ex, that this particular fiasco is unusual and surprising.

That, to me, makes it all the more likely that there IS a reason they are so upset. I tend to agree with Therm and Ashley, and whoever else said it, that it's very possible DD gave the impression that she did want to buy that dress.

I just don't see a reason why, in a situation where things are usually on a pretty even keel, dad/SM would get SO upset---unless they felt it was warranted. Did they overreact? I think in this case, probably. But it doesn't like there is a pattern of them overreacting.

Totally agree that a call from OP could have/would have smoothed the situation over before it blew up.

"a father who evidently beleives in the "marriage first" school advocated by many SMs here, even when SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter."

Way to shift all the blame onto the SM, KK. As usual.

DAD is the one that exploded/yelled at his DD here. Apparently SM was angry, but even OP said that DD was hurt by DAD'S reaction.

KKNY, you're reading things that do not exist in the postings from OP.

--"even when SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter."---

SM was not even talking to SD, Dad did the yelling. OP writes "Her Dad yelled at her, her SM wouldn't talk to her, they took away her phone and made her go to bed early", but you turn it into "even when SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter".

You seem bent on hating all SMs everywhere no matter what the actual poster is saying or telling us.

LH,

Dad is the one demanding D apologize to SM. SM was clearly angry.

I am NOT putting all blame on SM, I am clearly putting some on dad. I dont know why you choose to ignore that.

Dads and SMs reaction went way overboard. If a teen "gives you the impresssion" she wants something, I think all of us know to take that with a grain of salt. SM has shown she does not operate on a level keel. It seems to me that mom has been overaccomodating and gets her D bit for it. Which is why I strongly advise OP to see a lawyer.

OP, in some states, not all, courts can order CS till 21 and order college tuitition. You really should start college planning.

LH, I recall you have a girl. Statistics say it is not unlikely you will get divorced. So I guess it wouldnt bother you everything SM has done, including the shaving, waxing and buying first dance dress, without conculting you.

"So I guess it wouldnt bother you everything SM has done, including the shaving, waxing and buying first dance dress, without conculting you."

So the truth comes out! What really touched a nerve with you, KK, is the fact that SM bought the dress first!

I stated in one of my previous posts that I DID feel SM had overstepped her bounds in many areas. But IMO that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

No Love, its a pattern of SM not appreciating her role, and then over-reacting when she doesnt get to be the mom. And the fact that Dad is demanding that D fix things with SM to me (not apologize to HIM) is indicative that he is not that upset, other than how to keep his young wife happy. Gee, maybe that started the yelling -- Dad has to put marriage first, his wife, right or wrong. If SM could understand that she is not the mom and act accordingly none of this would have happened.

Young wife seems to have surfaced several times suddenly. Shannon, I think you made a very astute observation.

Moving on. . . the horse is dead, but being drug around and around . . .

JNM,

I have always tried to be fair, and supportive of CHILDREN. Not Sms, not moms, children. You know I sympathized when your SD was being used excessivly as a babysitter by her own mother, etc.

This has nothing to do with resenting a younger second wife, only that she has been given too much rope, and abused it.

I have agreed mom should try and make peace. BUT, OP, some of the SMs here think a SM can do no wrong. All I am saying is DAD is demanding apology for SM, not for him. That speaks volumes.

OP I must again strongly advise you to see a lawyer and get college funding on track and CS to the maximum. Dont put this off. In states which do not order college tuition, you can stockpile any CS you dont need now and save for college. The problem as I see it is unless SM gets her way, it can easily become my way or the highway, and your D will get left by the road.

Good luck!

SM can do no wrong....Sigh, SM can do no right either...Having bought SS clothing so he would have some nice ones for school, they were summarily rejected by BM too,just for the fact they were from me..Wonder if he were starving and I offered food, would that have been rejected too...If I were this SM, and was just trying to do something nice(and maybe she is childless, or doesnt know better) clueless that BM is wanting to buy HC dress for her first dance, where is the malice, or overstepping...My DH would want his DS to apolgize to me if he hurt my feelings, over a misunderstanding.......Shannon, yes I agree you were very insightful, but I m feeling full tilt empty nest syndrome.....Been there, done that, very painful, but dont worry KKNY, it ll will get better by Christmas, I promise you :)

it is too funny.

all the time people post here how BMs buy inappropriate, ill fitting, cheap, ugly clothes to their kids, send kids to dads house in clothes that cannot be worn to nice events etc so dads and SMs have to fix it by buying more appropriate items.

now all of a sudden when dad and SM buy wrong clothing and mom has to fix it, it is all mom's fault and she needs to apologize. too funny and very double standard.

Dotz, I am willing to assume no malice in buying the dress. But to over-react when mom went out and bought is the problem. This is NOT one of the uninvolved moms.

If both parents want to buy a kid clothes, why yell at kid. Or demand apology. If your DH would demand his kid apologize to you for wearing clothes mom bought, I would feel sorry for him. But I dont think your DH would demand apology for that, would he?

And dotz, with an involved mom, do you think the SM handling the 9 YO leg shaving and lip waxing? OK.

it has to be about a child. not about how not to upset SM. it is ridiculous.

if somebody buys me a gift of something that doesn't fit, i am not going to wear it. why is this girl have to wear it, just so not to upset SM? doesn't make any sense. dad and SM can put their marriage first between them two as much as they want. but it is not about their marriage, it is about a child. and that's where the problem comes from.

Personal note Fine, Not accusing my BM of buying inappropriate cheap, ill fitting clothes..She buys no clothes...Cigs are expensive, and with no job, she has to cut the budget somewhere :)

kkny, first of all, I did not attack you, I was just making an observation about your behaviour and asking you if you had ever heard the term "displacement" because you seem to have displaced anger.

You say that you " offer advise becuase I see a woman who sincerely wants to help her D, and a father who evidently beleives in the "marriage first" school advocated by many SMs here, even when SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter."

This was your "advice": (see it below in quotes)
- for the OP to apologize and "put the blame on herself".

What does this teach the OP's DD, about relationships, about how to deal with other people in the world? You also tell the OP to "Grovel if she must" at some point in your posts. OMG, you are telling a woman to grovel? What century is this...?? No one, man or woman or child should be told to grovel to anyone...!!

-you tell the OP to tell her DD to "stall if Dad wants to "help" her with shopping" and "not to tell Dad about any parties"

Is the DD now not supposed to shop with her own father?? Is she supposed to keep it a "Secret" if she has a dance to go to or a party? The OP's DD is now supposed to not be honest with her Dad, to lie to him, to omit information? Is this the advice you give to your OWN DD??

Finally, you tell the OP to "check that you are getting the max child support and discuss with lawyer. Since dad cant handle clothing, make certain you get as much CS as possible. And please, make certain you deal with college as early as possible. If you are going to have to negotatiote with dad and SM you want to know. OTOH, some states will order NCP to pay tuition."
The OP states repeatedly that she usually gets along well with her ex. Why would you try to have her start a firestorm and bring attorneys into it,which will cost her lots of $$ and bring emotional havoc on her, on her DD, and on her ex?? Why would you take what the OP has said is a fairly good relationship between ex's and turn it into a possible hell-on-earth scenario? The only reason I can see that you would give this advice is that this is the sort of thing that you have experienced, and that's why I mentioned the term "displacement" to you.

Finally, you said to LoveHadley that you are all about supporting and helping CHILDREN. Teaching a child to lie or withold things from her Dad (or to do this to anyone for that matter), and to have her Mom "take blame and apologize" when she hasn't done anything wrong is not supporting or helping anyone.

-----------------------------------------------------------Here is your post kkny:
Posted by kkny (My Page) on Mon, Oct 5, 09 at 16:52

"OP, a lot of advice here. To summarize, my recco,

1. Call your X and apoligize, blame on you. Dont worry if not true, you and mom can have a few laughs later. And there are an awful lot of SMs here who complain when mom buys inappropriate stuff.

2. Tell D not to let Dad berate her. Call you if problem.

3. In future, tell D to stall if dad wants to "help" her with shopping. Dont tell Dad about any parties til you two can work it out. He is way overly sensitive.

4. Again, check that you are getting max Child support and discuss college with lawyer. Since dad cant handle clothing, make certain you get as much CS as possible. And please, make certain you deal with college as early as possible. If you are going to have to negotatiote with dad and SM you want to know. OTOH, some states will order NCP to pay tuition."

-----------------------------------------------------

PS: JNM, I guess you are right about the horse...:D

PPS: LoveHadley, you are right. The OP never said that the "SM explodes unnecessarily at his own daughter" as quoted by kkny.

Your right, I stand corrected. Dad exploded. But now wants apolgy for SM. For what, for SD wearing another dress? Give me a break.

As to getting atttorneys involved, that is what is necessary to protect children at times. College is just around the corner for the girl and OP should be preparing for it.

As to groveling, that is what one may have to do in the world when someone else has power. Especially over your child.

So you say dont grovel and dont get attorneys involved -- OK.

" College is just around the corner for the girl and OP should be preparing for it. "

I just LOVE how a discussion about a DRESS turned into the automatic assumption that dad and SM are jerks, think the kid is an ingrate and that dad will refuse to help pay for college.

It just makes NO sense.

Mom_of_2.5 can you clarify here? Are you at all concerned that Dad won't contribute to college expenses?

when people are losing argument, they start personal attacks on posters with whom they disagree. makes me wonder if that's how they argue in real life...probably not. and talking about displaced anger...could it be that some posters are actually angry about something in their own lives but choose to attack KKNY because it is easier.

At the end of the day, all SD did was wear a dress her mom picked out, after SM bought her dress without SDs explicit involvement. Doesnt anyone else go shopping and looking and not necessarily buy?

Dad explodes, SM (who has previously demanded the mom title, and overstepped) is angry and dad demands apology.

Mom has been advised by all to try to smooth over, as in IÂm sorry we did not mean to upset SM.

A lot of the SMs here have uninvolved, drug using, etc mothers of their Stepkids. Entirely different situation. Its hard to be overstepping when mom is missing in action. There are many types of SMs, SMs where dad has full custody etc. Advice doesnÂt work the same in different situations. Some have been hurt badly and have had lots thrust on them. While some of them acuse me of being against every SM, I would suggest they have been understandly hurt by their situtions.

College is just around the corner. Dad has shown he overreacts to SMs feelings. It is scary.

finedreams, I do not consider this an "argument", more of a "discussion". I don't argue, and I find that this is an interesting discussion, and it's interesting to see how others think...I always learn something by reading our discussions here, that's why I come back. :D

Also, what do you consider an "attack" because I simply asked kkny with much respect if she had ever heard of the term "displacement". I did not accuse her of having it, I simply brought it into the discussion very nicely and I reiterated all of the adjectives that kkny used to describe the OP's DD's SM. (see below)

shannon2356 said:
"Because sometimes, I don't think that you do it on purpose, but I think that because you are still angry about your own situation, you "displace" that onto others and every SM who makes a "bad" decision is "Imbelic" (I think you meant IMBECILE btw) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile),"cheap", "insensitive", a "jerk", "physco" (I think you meant "psycho"), a "control freak", "overbearing", an "idiot", a "nutjob" or a "lunatic". "

And kkny, sorry, but I humbly cannot agree that grovelling works in any of the situations that I can ever recall seeing on this forum. To be honest, I was really under the impression that by the way you present yourself on here, that grovelling would not be something that you would ever do. I would discuss, yes, but grovel, NEVER. An example of the only reason that "Grovelling" would be acceptable to me is the following:
if someone is trying to murder you or rape you or is violent with you or someone you love, you grovel and beg and plead for your life. That's the ONLY situation I would ever accept someone grovelling for anything. See the definition below:

grov⋅el /ˈgrʌvəl, ˈgrɒv-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [gruhv-uhl, grov-] Show IPA
Use grovel in a Sentence
See web results for grovel
See images of grovel
verb (used without object), -eled, -el⋅ing or (especially British) -elled, -el⋅ling. 1. to humble oneself or act in an abject manner, as in great fear or utter servility.
2. to lie or crawl with the face downward and the body prostrate, esp. in abject humility, fear, etc.
3. to take pleasure in mean or base things.

Finally, kkny, when your advice to the OP was to
"tell her DD to "stall if Dad wants to "help" her with shopping" and "not to tell Dad about any parties",

you did not reply to my question. Is this something you tell your DD to do with her her own Dad? Can anyone else answer this question for me in their own situation, does anyone do this?