If I was DH I would tell BM that it is his weekend and he will exercise his visitation rights. SD's dr. said she is okay to return to school so there is no reason she can not visit and attend the party. If necessary I would have dh show up at bm's house with the police and visitation order. BM can probably still refuse...but it will be documented then. And if this is a regular thing then I am sure the courts would frown upon it. Some parents have lost custody due to trying to consistantly withhold visitation.

As for the financial aspect I would have dh tell her point blank that if sd is not allowed to come over he will stop going above and beyond with the extra money. Maybe a little hit to her wallet will have an inpact on her decisions!

Yeah, we just went to court in September for her blocking visits and other things...... The court order was re-written to put consequences in place for any more alienation tatics on the mother or any other third parties participation (i.e. BM's mother).

DH called the lawyer's office this afternoon to see what he could do... and was told the same thing you just said. If the Dr states she can travel and does not have a virus or the flu, then SD should still come on her court ordered visit. We live out of state and DH has an order that both have to meet 1/2 way for visitation exchanges. So instead of bringing police to BM's house and scaring SD half to death - he is going to drive to the 1/2 point and then have a report done there BM does not show up. We just dont want that to make SD think police are there to get her or her mom. It would be traumatic!

On the money - my DH wanted to lower it this summer when the court gave him the option cause she was trying so hard to block his summer visits. But i told him - speaking from being a BM who does not receive child support - and having never received child support - that her (BM's) set her budget around receiving the higher amount and since it does not put a huge burden on our budget - to continue to pay it. SD's should keep her same living standard if we could afford it - plus we make sure she gets her payment before the 1st of every month.

I was thinking i was doing the right thing in talking him into that - since i knew what it was to struggle when my daugther was younger. It makes it a little hard now - knowing what she is doing and how she lied on her court affidavits. But in my heart, I just feel it is the right thing to do.

So now we are playing the waiting game.... I hope she changes her mind and just does what the court order states since the DR stated SD does not have a virus or the flu.

AND BM is on "custody probabtion" as the judge put it - because her alienation tatics were well documented (most things we received from her and the trauma counselor she picked). We were just hoping it would just be peaceful since the new court order very specifically outlines the do's and don'ts in regards to visitation and alienation now.

I still have my fingers crossed.... it will all work out and be positive come Friday afternoon.

"HUH? Why she would not want her daughter to attend the Harvest Fest after SD has been speaking of it for the past 4 weeks or so."

In a word... JEALOUSY. She is selfish and a parent that does that does not care how their child feels, they are only interested in THEIR OWN feelings. Very sad for the child!

Several years ago, just after we got married.. we decided to take a family cruise. SD was so excited and the morning we were to leave, BM sent DH a text saying SD was sick, throwing up. BM says she took SD to the doctor and DH was ready to cancel the trip. I spent the day wracked with guilty for feeling like she was lying... it didn't sound right and the timing was TOO coincidental. But, DH bought it because BM says she went to the doctor. Well, I told DH that he can stay home with her or he can let BM keep her but I am not canceling our trip. He called BM and said if she's too sick to go, he'd let BM keep her. At first she said okay... then she called DH and told him that SD was feeling better and could go after all. We picked up SD and left for the port. Aside from looking a bit upset when we picked her up, she was absolutely fine the entire trip.

At that time, I had a gut feeling she lied about it. Knowing what I know now, I KNOW she lied about it. In fact, looking back I don't doubt SD was throwing up at the stress her mom was putting on her.. I don't think she faked that and that is why I felt guilty for thinking it was a lie. It is VERY sad!

"Why is it a "good" father has to have such a hard time when it comes to getting visitation with his daughter?"

I ask the same question all the time. I wish I knew the answer. So many fathers get beat down by this stuff and don't have the money or the strength to continue to fight it.

The holidays are coming up. No plans have been made for SD to come for a visit. We have no money for a hotel to go visit in her state. And when I say "no money" I really mean it. DH is dreading even starting the negotiations because they always start with avoidance on SD and BM's parts, include a blow-up arguement, and end with DH getting a pittance amount of time because SD inevitably has something to hurry back for. He's just tired of getting his heart crushed.

I am tired of getting my heart crushed, too. I get excited for her to do things with us. But then the lies start and I start dreading it.

The double-standard is so obvious. A couple years ago (while she was still living in the same town we do) SD spent an entire week out of school due to the passing away of BM's grandmother. SD was not close to her at all, but BM was all distraught (woman was sick for years) and made the case that she wanted SD to see the extended family.

About a month ago, DH's grandmother passed away. Suddenly, family isn't all that important to BM. DH offered in text, e-mail and voicemail to drive the 8 hrs. to pick SD up and then go the additional 8 hours to the funeral. BM and SD avoided DH's calls and texts until it was too late to pick up SD.

Thanks Ima - I am so hoping that she has a change of heart and lets her come. DH's and my feelings are hurt - cause SD was so excited to get to participate.

SD was sooo excited to get to participate - she tells DH every time she called. Maybe that gets on BM's nerves for some reason. I guess from now on - we will have to keeps things quiet.... so no tatics to block SD from participating happen. So very sad indeed.

Wow! Ashley - I can certainly empathize with you. It is hard to watch DH's heart get broke all the time as well. Really hard - and totally un-necessary. I just don't get it. Our DH's were good enough men to make children with and be in relationship with - but if that relationship ends - then for some reason they stop being good enough to parent. I just don't understand.

I really don't know what to think of the holidays this year.... Last year the holidays started the whole entire mess where BM filed false charges of abuse against me, tried to use a trauma counselor and filed to take joint custody and visitation away from DH. Thank goodness we have an updated court order this year - that states she will be in contempt of the court order if she alienates DH and SD's relationship or blocks visits.

Oh my goodness - I am so hoping this year's holiday season goes smoothly. DH by the new court order this year gets.... Halloween, Thanksgiving, Day After Christmas Until day before School Reopens - 3 Jan. I hope this not an indication of how those holidays will go. OMG!

I don't know if DH has the energy to go through that again.... it was a very hurtful time to read all those lies and not to mention disgusting. Geez! I hope she gets some maturity and puts her kid first. As the court pointed out at the hearing last month. Neither parent is supposed to stop or use tatics to stop the relationship between SD and either parent.

sounds selfish, document that she denies visitations and maybe he should go to court again if she continues.

I think you are on the right track with driving to your spot and having a report done there if she doesn't show. Also, ahead of time, i would gently remind BM that doc says she's fine, and that you all will plan o pick SD up at the normal time, warn her ahead of time that id she doesn't show, you will be calling the police to make a report and take her back to court for violating her "custody Probation"...the warning alone will probably get her to comply......

DH called her this AM and told her if SD is supposedly that sick (after she was out shopping with her yesterday and took her to visit with one of her cousins at her grandma's house) then to take her back to the doctor. He then told her, SD comes with about 3 different meds each visit and has been here before when actually sick, he is a capable parent and can read and give medicaiton - just to placate her.

BM's response was - she was taking her to the Dr today to get a note to state SD can not travel. WHAT? Even though DH has spoken with the DR and doc told him SD has no limitations, does not have strep throat or the flu.

Afterwards he told her it seems as if she just doesn't want SD here at the Harvest Fest party.... as BM told SD it was going to rain here and we cancelled it. SD asked us last night. We had to explain to SD there is no forecast for rain in VA and the party has not been cancelled.

SO now DH is calling the lawyer, getting written notification from the doctor that he was told SD did not have the flu, strep or a virus, and now we just wait and see. I feel in my heart she is not going to allow SD to come to the Harvest Fest here in VA due to her jealousy and anger. It is starting all over again - this is his visitation weekend... and i can just bet if there was no holiday involved with this weekend she would be here with no problem. DH suggested that he come and get SD this evening since she is out half a day tomorrow and asked what meds he should purchase - since the doctor did not prescribe her any - she told him SD is not well enough to travel. However I can just guarantee that SD will be out "trick or treating" on Saturday with her mom and cousin........ completely disregarding the court order.

It is expected as she has been nothing but vindictive and hateful since DH was awarded Joint custody and visitation. But this time it is not going to ride - DH is sick of her mess. He is going to get the police report and having his lawyer go ahead with the contempt charges against BM. We have no other choice and 6 years of this crap is totally unacceptable.

If she does not let her daughter come, I would invest in a private investigator to obtain video of SD trick or treating.

Yeah, that is an idea. . . . This is all just sad and laughable..... BM has been telling SD since Tuesday she would be to sick to attend the Harvest Fest here on Saturday. However the doctor contradicts it..... and she is still going to use it to block his visitation weekend, and more than likely still take her trick or treating in NC. Which normally would not be a problem - it is that it falls on DH's weekend this year and she should have allowed him to have his court ordered weekend and not given all the bull to try and stop it.....

She is a real piece of work....... Just disgusting

I guess I'm bothered by the idea of letting mom 'allow' or disallow' visitation. It's court ordered. Period. Does the custody agreement have any stipulations for illness?

If you can get a signed note from her doctor that she was seen, NOT treated and is clear to travel, I would email mom that she does not have the ability to deny court ordered visitation and should she try you will present the judge the note from the doctor. I would also tell her you will be at the agreed meeting place at the agreed time, and filing a police report should she not arrive.

Just a guess, but if there is history of mom calling the shots with dad and him allowing it, court order or not, she feels she has the power to. She needs to know she does not have that power and dad will no longer roll over to her. Perhaps a reminder that she is on probation would be in order as well?

I DETEST parents like her.

Justnot - we have done just what you described. DH has the note from the doctor's office in hand, and we told her will will not be giving up this weekend. DH has let her know he will be driving to the court order spot at 630.... and if she does not show - the police will be called to make a police report.

The only reason we are not going to go to her house to inforce the court order is because of SD. She (SD) is afraid of the police and i am sure it will prove traumatic for her. BM has been pulling this type stuff for the past 6 years.

DH has resigned to saying he will follow through with the police report, and filing her in contempt of the new court order and signed agreement she had to sign at the court on 9 Sept stating she understood she would stop alientating the relationship of SD and DH.

If SD was telling DH she was sick when he talked with SD it would be no issue..... The only way saying SD is sick is BM. Not the doc or the child. It is just nuts.

I also DETEST parents like her as well. SD was very excited to attend. However if she (BM) keeps her it is her butt when the paperwork is signed.... and i am hoping she or SD does not tell DH that SD actually goes trick or treating - cause that will just add injury to insult.

This is the pits!
BM is being rotten and hurting SD.
Bah. People like that make me very upset.

Me too, what is it with these people???
We were back in court last year because of BM withholding visitation. It was awfully stressful and the skids really resented us for taking BM to court. BM had them believing the judge might send her to jail!(Our maliscious intent of course). We couldn't get it through to them that nothing of the sort was going to happen: what BM says goes. She instructed the skids to say what she needed them to say and the court counselor didn't see that when she interviewed the skids. She noticed they sounded rehearsed, but put that down to the skids talking between the two of them on what to say. FDH also explained about the alcohol abuse (BM can hit the bottle pretty hard and is a violent drunk when she does). The counselor brushed it all aside, didn't want to know anything about it. But anyway, that's nothing to do with anything today..

As far as the bashing goes, this has not changed much since, if anything BM is even more keen now to show FDH and myself that she IS boss, and it's her way or no way.

My older skid is starting to figure this out for herself now that she's getting a bit older. It's a good thing, but it's a very painful process and I hate it that she has to go through it. It's all so unnecessary and awful, bah!

I hope that you guys will get SD, but either way SD is a victim of the tug of war. She's caught up in this high conflict, she's suffering no matter what the outcome is. Poor kid.

UGH. I just do not understand why people have to be like this. I can *empathize* with a BM (or BD) being disappointed to not spend a holiday with their child---I can imagine that it must be very difficult at times to send your child off to their "other home" and know that you are missing out on a chunk of their life.

BUT---being a PARENT is often about putting your own feelings/needs/wants aside and doing what is best for your child.

BM in this case is doing NOTHING but punishing and hurting her child. It is twisted, selfish and it really makes me ill.

I second the idea that you should have DH show up for his custody time---just so if SD can't go with him, at least he has tried, and at least it's documented. BM is treading on thin ice here regarding the courts---it would behoove her to be on her best behavior!

I really hope your SD can make it.

Well, no change of heart on BM's part at all. So now we play the waiting game to see what happens this evening at 630.

What is funny is that - now that BM has been trying to make SD seem like she is sick..... last night SD sounded a little under the weather. I hope her mom is not stressing her out to the point of making her actually sick.

It is just sad.. ... BUT we have decided that even if BM does not let her come - we are going to still have a Harvest Fest for SD. I am holding on to SD's goodies, and bought a second set of the arts and crafts, and cupcake making set, plus a couple of the game prizes. I am going to have my neices and SD do another smaller "Harvest Fest and Game Night" when she comes next weekend. SD will not miss out. But this time we are keeping it quiet and it will be a pleasant surprise for SD when DH picks her up.

I hate that DH even have to do that... or even file the contempt but dang, what choice does he have.

Just sad.

We are also playing the waiting game... sorta.

BM was telling SD for weeks that she is having SD on Halloween but per the order, it's DH's weekend. We've had SD with us for the last two weeks straight and BM has not called her ONCE. All of a sudden, she calls last night and leaves a message after SD is in bed and wants SD to call her back. DH didn't have SD call her back, he figures BM wants to discuss with SD, the Halloween arrangements and BM should be talking to him about that, not SD. He sent her an email two weeks ago telling her it's his weekend & we have plans. So, we don't know if BM (well, BM never comes herself, she sends her mother) is going to pick up SD from the school today. We will be at work so the only way he will find out is if she does not show up at her after care, they will call him. Of course, there will be little that he can do if she takes her... file a police report & contempt charges too. BM lives 3 hours away and DH is not going to go make a scene & totally ruin SD's weekend.

The sad part, in our case, is that BM would do it just to start a fight with DH... not because SHE wants to spend the time with SD.

So, we also wait & see.

Maybe for next time there is something big, just don't tell SD about it ahead of time so that BM won't know and withold visitation just to be spiteful? I know that's not really fair to your SD as half the fun is the excitement of what you;re going to do together on "such andsuch weekend" but this BM sounds totally toxic and just wants to hurt your DH and your SD...sick,really sick :(

Good advice Shannon, I actually got the same advice on this forum a while ago and it works for us.

We were planning to take the skids to a footie game and BM lost it when she found out. Skids came back next time saying that BM had already planned for YEARS to take them and who were we to steal her thunder?? The best advice I got was to not tell skids of any plans in advance (where possible). That way they don't get to feel bad beforehand and BM doesn't get a chance to spoil it. It works for us:-)

The outcome of the footie game: they didn't end up going (of course) and we are going to take them next year..surprise on the day!!

Well, did she show up? I certainly hope so.
-Cat

Well after we filed the police report - after no show on Friday..... We ended up with her on Sat morning.... Still pissed that it took all of that anyways.

It is sad some BM's will try and pull anything. But at least now i am hoping she realizes DH is not playing that crap with her anymore. She needs to follow the court order and that is the bottom line.

AND DH and I have decided that anything that goes on in our home, or family in VA will stay that way. SD will find out when she gets here. That will keep her mom from attempting to block what is going on here.

"AND DH and I have decided that anything that goes on in our home, or family in VA will stay that way. SD will find out when she gets here"

IMO *some* of doing this is common courtesy/respect for the other parent. One thing BM in our case does is ALWAYS try to get SS hyped up about something when he's with us. Like, when he's with us on a 5-day stretch, she will call him on Friday and say "oh, I can't WAIT for you to come back to my house on Monday because I have a HUGE surprise for you."

Then he spends all weekend with us wishing he could hurry up and get to his mom's to see his "surprise" (which always turns out to be something "not that big a deal," like a new movie, or a small toy.) Nonetheless--BM does this ALL the time and it can get really irritating.

NOW--I realize this is a little different from you telling SD about a harvest festival party, which IS a big deal and is something she should be excited about.

But given ALL the circumstances, and considering how your BM is, it is probably best to just keep things quiet until SD is actually with you.

I'm sorry you had to file a police report, but I'm glad you eventually got SD! did she have fun?

lovehadley - she did have a great time... it was just amazing how the illness disappeared when the police report was filed.....

DH had to decide to keep things going on here in VA in VA for the sake of SD. BM attacks everything we tell SD and then at times makes her feel bad for wanting to attend. We attempted to keep her in the loop or ask her for her help or input and it is always met with opposition or lies.

For instance -this past summer - SD was with us for 4.5 weeks. DH asked BM to send along her hair care products so that we would be able to keep her hair clean and combed. She (BM) replied with telling DH - it was not necessary for us to comb or wash SD hair - and that if her hair was changed - there would be a major problem.

HUH? 4.5 and for us not to comb or wash SD's hair. Just nuts! Then she took her to the counselor when DH took her back home and her hair had been combed and washed. AND stated I abused her in order to get her to sit still to wash her hair.

Which was a complete lie.... SD enjoyed it - plus it was necessary... i could not believe she wanted us to ignore a 6 years old hygeine that way.

So not knowing what else to do to help protect Sd from some of her mother's actions we will just keep it too ourselves. We have no choice.

last note added - i could not and would not let my SD go that long with out her hair washed or combed.... in my opinion that was negligence....... AND when DH told her that... she told it was up to her to decide what negligence is or not. And nobody would think it was negligence if the mother demanded a child's hair not to be washed. We just left it alone.... and spoke with the counselor when it was brought up in the "family" session.

If you had not washed it, she would have said you neglected her. It's a no win situation. My SD lives with us full time. If DH takes her to get a haircut (more of a style since he likes her hair longer), BM will take her the next weekend and chop it off short & send him a text picture. So, he no longer takes her for a haircut... when she says it's too long, we trim bangs so she can see but tell her to go ask your mom to take you for a style. BM won't take her to get a cut so I guess her hair will be long... DH likes long hair anyway.

As for planning things, SD lives with us and BM rarely calls her... but if she knows we are doing something special, BM will call relentlessly. She calls on our anniversary & birthdays and when we are having a family party. Since SD lives with us, there is really no way to not tell her about stuff and she always tells her mom what we are going to do. It was funny how SD's grandma showed up at our house during the birthday party scheduled on DH's time so BM could take her on her actual birthday but BM didn't and neither of them could take SD on her actual birthday, the next day.