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Who should pay for college?

Posted by silversword (My Page) on
Thu, Oct 8, 09 at 9:46

Quick Poll:

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both?
2. Do you have children of college age?
3. If so, who is paying for their college?
4. If not, who will be paying for their college?
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not)
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Both
2. No
3. N/A
4. I'm not sure yet. My daughter has a college fund setup by her biological father. We have not talked about SD yet.
5. I think that children should be helped through college, but should be active participants in the financial side so they are motivated to do their absolute best. I am willing to contribute to the college/advanced degree programs of both of our children, but am not willing to pay the entire bill. They will have to take out loans for a portion regardless of the financial situation.
6. If finances were worse, I'd expect them to take out student loans to cover the entirety of their education. The interest rates are notoriously lower than other loans, and there is a lot more leeway. If finances were better, I would pay for more, but still not the entire bill.

The way I look at it, we can always help more. Things like year abroad, clothes, helping to fix a broken car, etc. But the onus of the education should be on the one receiving it, so they know the full value of the process in which they are participating. I have seen too many of my peers get a "free ride" only to jump off midway through. That is not doing a child a service.

I consider both children to be my responsibility. When I married my husband, I married him as a father as well as as a man. With all the responsibilities that come with being a father.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both

2. Do you have children of college age? Not yet, DD is 7 and SS is also 7.

3. If so, who is paying for their college?

4. If not, who will be paying for their college? DD has a college trust fun set up by my maternal grandparents so she will use that. I think that they will probably set something up for SS at some point; they are very generous, kind people and already refer to him as their great-grandchild. If that doesn't happen, I imagine DH/I will pay for it, as BM will probably not be in a position to. DH has been putting money aside for just that for the last 3 yrs.


5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) College is extremely important to me and to DH for both of our kids. Yes, I'm comfortable.

6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? If it were worse, I still think DH and I would do whatever we could, even if that meant taking out loans, or whatever.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both?
both SM and BM
2. Do you have children of college age?
No
3. If so, who is paying for their college?
N/A
4. If not, who will be paying for their college?
DH and I. BM can't even keep up with child support, i would be SHOCKED if she contributes a dime to SD's education.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not)
What is the most important to me, is that my SD have the oppurtunity to go to college. If that means DH and I foot the bill alone,it is what it is. I have made peace with it, just as I have made peace with us having full financial responsibility since she was younger.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion?
I cant really say either way, if BM started paying support, I would stick it in SD's savings account for when she is older and on her own.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both?

2. Do you have children of college age? not yet

3. If so, who is paying for their college?

4. If not, who will be paying for their college? we have not discussed it yet

5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not)
I would like for my ex, myself, and our son to all contribute. For my stepkids I do not forsee their mom paying anything because she never has done much for them. So I think it will be me, dh, and the children.

6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? I think that no matter what our financial situation is at the time that it is important for our children to help work their way through college to teach them responsibility. But I will encourage and help them apply for grants and scholarships. And we already have college funds started for them that we add money into.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Slightly OT -- here's an old thread with lots of SMs saying kids can make their own way, http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/step/msg08174822498.html

and I was soooo glad to see that momof2.5 already has it covered --just has to notify dad before child hits 18

SS --

There are problems with student loans -- mainly that they cant be forgiven in bankruptcy. And the low rate ones are only the federal ones -- which are sujbect to limitations. The really low rate federal ones are limited to families with low income (as they should be, imho), BUT they count CP and CPs spouse.

As to the comment that you have seen many kids whose college was paid for goof off, I have seen many students who worked very hard when their parents paid (including my D, my X and me).


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1.Both
2.Yes, one Step one Bio
3.We pay the books, they pay the tuition. Fortunately here in Canada, tuition is very cheap and as long as they have a summer job, they have enough money to cover it.
5.Yes because if they don't have to contribute to it themselves, many kids WILL goof off. My brother, who is not divorced and has been married for like 26 years, paid the full shot for college for his two kids. They are good kids, not big partyers, not wild or anything. But the attitude was "if I fail a course, no biggie, Mom and Dad will pay for me to take it again". So we watched my brother and SIL and learned alot. :) Also, my DD wanted to attend private school in grade 10. She decided she wanted to go, no one made her go or forced her to, it was HER idea. So, I said, "fine, if you want to go, show me how serious you are and get a summer job. Every dime will go towards you paying half of private school and your SDad and I will pay the other half." I figured she would say "no way, thanks anyways!" and it was a good way to see how serious she was about attending. Well, she surprised us in a big way! She got a summer job, she was only 15, and she saved big time and she went to private school!! I think that this is not the way to do it with all kids,and if parents or grandparents have set up a trust, that's great but this way is working with our kids/s-kids very well and I highly recommend it if you don't have money to set aside.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Hi KKNY,
I paid my way through college. I'm still paying off student loans. I got a good interest rate. And the biggest problem that you stated, that they can't be forgiven in bankruptcy?

I think bankruptcy has reached an all time easy-out level. I think I'd be more inclined to have to file bankruptcy had my parents paid for my education because I would not have had to take such a pro-active approach to my finances. I think bankruptcy should be much harder to file. It's an "easy-out" for so many people. I think that's wrong and irresponsible.

And yes, some of the children I know who's parents paid for their education have thrived. But that is not the norm. I grew up with a private, college-prep education and in my personal experience those who paid for their own college have been more successful and more committed to their education. This does not mean it's the norm, or a hard fact, it's just what I've observed, and how I feel from personal experience. I would not have graduated Summa Cum Laude in Business had my parents footed the bill. I would have graduated middle of the road in English Literature. LOL.


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College

I think some kids borrow way too much. Bankruptcy is not easy to file for under the 2005 Act, imho.

I think some kids goof off and some dont. I think it is a cop-out to blame goofing off on whether mom/dad pay. X and I both graduated business school with honors with parents paying. My sister has UG degree in liberal arts and with MBA is extremely successful. I actually think I have more control over student when I am paying than when not. I think some kids can not handle work and full time school, and end up dropping out.

1. BM only
2. One bio in college
3. per agreement, dad pays all tuition, room and board, books, transportation, for college and graduate and/or professional school
4. NA

Her father and I both value education and are realistic about the ability of kids to put themselves through.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

I forgot to answer 5 and 6, opps:)

5.Yes
6.if we had tons of money and could afford it, from what I have seen with my niece and nephew, (brother and SIL's kids) and with many friends' kids, I don't think I would change a thing. We would pay books, they would pay tuition, case closed.

kkny, is your daughter 17, do kids in the USA go to college that young?


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Shannon, Yes, and it depends.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

I am BM, am in a relationship with a man with kids, but am not officially SM.

DD21 is in college her last year. her father pays her college tuition and helps with other expenses. DD works and contributes to cost of living and I help her. DD is getting BA in 3 years, not 4, so it helps.

No, DD isn't doing poorly in college because dad pays tuition. LOL She is doing fine. she has intrinsic motivation.

Dad pays tuition as per his proposal. He makes way more money (currently) than me plus when DD was little his company went through 2 bankrupcies and i often was on my own financially. Also i never thought of asking anything from him what other people ask exes for: pay bus fee, books, fee, school fee, clothes, medical bills. i never thought of it and paid all myself.

When DD got older ex told me that he was young and stupid and didn't realize that i carried much heavier load for years and he would like to pay her college in full. When I suggested to contribute, he said: don't. I said thanks and end of story.
PS DD attends rarher expensive college.


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silverswood

I do not see how Business degree is better than degree in English lilterature (or any literature). depends what career one is pursuing. one is not better than the other.

ALL of DD's friends get colleges paid for-private most of them, most attend Ivy League. ALL of them do very well.

i think you make generalizations based on some stereotype that simply does not hold true. Not everybody has to walk up hill both ways bare feet in snow to succeed in life. in fact most of them could do that well because they do not have to work many hours to finance their education (in fact DD is the only one who works, so they have free time to study and they actually do better than her).

many people have motivation that is ingrained in them at home and have nothing to do with money.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Perhaps this was a bad example seeing as you do not know me IRL. My point was that I would have taken "underwater basket weaving" type classes rather than classes that would actually develop my mind. In my area, where I went to college, the only thing a degree in English Lit would get you is to be an English teacher. I would not have paid enough attention to know that, would just have pursued it because I like literature and learning about it.

One is not inherently better than the other, but in my case one was more practical than the other.


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English Lit

Really, where I live, a degree in English lit can lead to law school or graduate business school. And there is nothing wrong wih teaching.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? -Both - two of each
2. Do you have children of college age? - Yes, Bio Son
3. If so, who is paying for their college? - BioMom and BioDad each pay half
4. If not, who will be paying for their college?
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) - I'd love it if Dad paid more! My financial situation has worsened, but his is such that DS could not possibly qualify for financial aid, and he was last custodial parent.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? - Couldn't say...

As to the issue of how hard kids work when their education is paid for -- I think that totally depends on the kid in question and on the way they were raised. My brother and sister and I all had our educations paid for, and we all worked hard and graduated near/at the tops of our classes. To do anything less never even occurred to us as an acceptable option. Though I would guess that my parents would have had a *serious conversation* after the first bad semester, and cut off a goof-off child immediately after the second bad semester.

As of right now, DS is working very hard and at/near the top of his class. He'll need to keep it up if he want's to live the kind of life he envisions for himself. If he starts goofing off and doing poorly, I will cut him off financially until he demonstrates greater maturity and earns back trust. (At $50K per year? He'd better work hard!) His Dad would probably do the same - sort of. He's less consistent in his parenting than I am.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Hi KKNY,

That's why I specified "WHERE I LIVE". And "WHERE I WENT TO SCHOOL" rather than "WHERE KKNY LIVES".

LOL

There wasn't graduate school or law school available on the island where I went to school and I was a SAHM going back to school. I would have had to move islands and leave my baby with her dad (who I was married to at the time) in order to pursue that kind of education, which would not have happened. Therefore, I would be able to be a teacher right now, and that's pretty much all the options available unless I went back to school again. Right now, a business degree is far more useful and allows me to pursue many more job opportunities. Because I was paying for it myself I made a very concentrated effort to pick the very best option long run rather than just doing interesting classes. That's why I said FOR ME PERSONALLY it would not have been good.

There is nothing wrong with being a teacher. At all. But for me, narrowing my choices like that would not have been a good option. FOR ME.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

And SS, that's why I replied as to where I lived. We can all put our two cents in. No need to shout.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

kkny, re.college age, Wow, here they are at least 18. Most in my province are 19-20 because they go to CEGEP, which is like "junior college" or grade 12-13, so they are like 17-18 in the first year of junior college (CEGEP), and 18-19 in their second year. Also, at CEGEP,kids can take a "career program"for 3 years(ie.dental hygiene, early childhood education, some computer programs, etc..) and they can start work when they are done. They can also decide to continue on to college/university after the 3 year career program, or after the 2 year regular program. It's very good actually, because it gives them a chance to mature before they go to "real" college and then some of them tend to take it more seriously.:) Also CEGEP/junior college is alot cheaper, so more kids can afford to go!! :D


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Community college

We have community colleges/junior colleges here. In general, they have a choice of career or fresh/soph level lib arts classes. Students who start at CC have a significantly lowere rate of obtaining a 4 year degree. Are you in Canada? Some kids in my Ds school go to McGill, and they could be starting at 17 there.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? BM
2. Do you have children of college age? no, DD10
3. If so, who is paying for their college?
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? DD already knows that she is expected to obtain a full scholarship to college like both of her parents did. She is a gifted student and I understand how scholarships work, so I don't expect it to be a problem. If she does not, I will pay but she will have to work during the summers and during school to contribute.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) No, I expect her father to contribute to her college fund but he is determined to remain underemployed so that he doesn't have to help out more than minimally financially. I've come to terms with it. In the end, he's the one losing out. If things go according to plan, DD will get whatever is left in her college fund to start her off (e.g. downpayment on a house or for graduate school) in her adult life.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? It wouldnt change my opinion. My daughter is very gifted academically, athletically, and artistically. I believe she should use her God-given talents to pay for college. People don't realize that there are so many scholarships out there. I am a product of top schools and the Ivy league after turning down better scholarship offers to lesser schools and understand that its not the name of the school you attend that limits your future possibilities so I am ok with her going to a lesser brand school if it means she will attend for free.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Mariealways, I like the way you think:)

kkny, That is so, so young to start at 17,and Yes, I said that a few posts back, I am in Canada. :) I had never heard that about kids who start at a community college that they have a lower rate of obtaining a 4 year degree, imagine...I would love to see a paper about that, interesting. I know here,in Canada, the kids who go to CEGEP seem to do ok. The government started the program to eliminate grade 12 and 13 and as a way to better prepare kids for university because they found that the jump from high school to university was alot for some of them to handle and they were failing. It also gives some kids who cannot afford university or who do not want to pursue longer studies to go the career-route and come out with a good career base.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? BM
2. Do you have children of college age? not yet
3. If so, who is paying for their college? n/a
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? probably me
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) I am comfortable with paying, I feel that it is important. Not only education wise, but as the college experience. I didn't get that, I went into the military at 17 and worked my arse off to go to college. As well, DD's father isn't a bad person but his vice is money. He may change, who knows, but I'm not counting on it.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? My financial situation could get worse, but the money for college is already set aside. I do not forsee any problems there. If it were to magically disappear and I was living paycheck to paycheck? I'd probably try to take out loans for DD, or help her pay back loans she had taken out.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Hi Shannon,
I wonder if there is a correlation between those who attend community college and the reduced likelihood of them achieving a 4 year degree and the probability that in the US a person who starts at a community college often did not have the grades to get into a four-year university and therefore may find the academics more challenging, and drop out, or only get a two year degree.

I like the idea of children being able to get a good career base, and to prepare those who want to go to university prior to attending. I think part of the issue here in the US is that many children are pushed into college (by peers, parents, general expectations) and are unprepared for the academics.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

"She is a gifted student and I understand how scholarships work, so I don't expect it to be a problem."

Hope you're right Marie. But do know that most "Merit Scholarships" also consider financial need. If you are well off (and possibly her father also - schools are different in how they consider divorced parents), your financial status could prevent her from qualifying for many scholarships -- even Merit ones! Spend a little time checking into it now if it could be a problem down the road.


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RE: more

Silversword, there is a difference in the type of students to excel in high school vs. college. Many high school "losers" can excel in college because that type of personality is prone to abstract thinking, which college promotes. Kids who do well in high school have the tools to exceed in our current learning environments and can still do well. But it doesn't discount the "losers" lol who often launch academically with college material....if they are given a chance.

It's a complex subject, but I wouldn't write off the "losers" just because they did poor in public school systems. You also have to factor in that particular school as not all are the same.


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RE: Nivea

Hi Nivea,
Please don't think I'm suggesting we write off anyone, let alone those who do not succeed in school. I'm simply saying that other countries deal with it differently (Canada offers more "bridge" education between high school and college and Japan separates the wheat from the chaff early). and that may be more effective in the long run for those nations than our current system is for us.

Please note that the "losers" in quotations are your label, not mine. I do not think those who do not attend college are losers. I'm suggesting that people are given a broader range of choices, and suited toward their future earlier, like Japan or with more chances, like Canada. That way we probably wouldn't have so many drop-outs.

I don't have the answers to our educational issues here in the US, but I don't think anyone can deny we are failing our children. I was a high school student doing very poorly academically which had to do more with personal issues than intelligence issues. Once I was prepared to go to college, mentally, I excelled. So I completely understand your point that being as rigorous as Japan would not have benefited me or others like me.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

sweeby...actually, most of the merit scholarships to the top schools are also based on financial need, but that is not the case regarding many of the lesser schools that want to snag students that are usually out of their league. Been there, done that. Just an example...our family financial circumstances had changed by the time I went to college so I was offered a number of need-based scholarships to top name schools. My older siblings however had full-rides to what I thought at the time were podunk universities despite a high household income and net worth. My best friend also went to the lowest ranked school he applied to, and at the time, I thought he was crazy, but his parents had no debt and a six-figure income and told him he had to follow the money.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both (3BC-2SC)
2. Do you have children of college age? SD 12th grade
3. If so, who is paying for their college? US amry
4. If not, who will be paying for their college?they will pay for thier own-I see so many on here that say "I'll pay for that" well BM not doing anything - and we don't have a million dollars..
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) I am not that rich and don't know many that can send 5 kids to college at the same time (living at home 14,15,16, and 17)
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? I would help more if I was to win the lotto tomorrow.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Hey SS, long time no see btw ;) i had wondered where you went to.

Anyway, yes I agree our system is failing children. We are behaving as if we are a carbon copies of each other and the ones who do poorly (yes, loser was my term lol, not blaming you for it) were the irregulars...that should end up in the bargain bin.

Yes other countries deal with it differently, but I'm not going to say any better.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? BOTH

2. Do you have children of college age? YES

3. If so, who is paying for their college? OLDEST CHOSE TO JOIN THE MILITARY & WILL PAY HIS OWN WITH THE GI BILL. MIDDLE SON PAYS HIS OWN W/SOME HELP FROM ME & DH WHILE HE LIVE AT HOME (ALSO CONSIDERED PART OF THE 'HELP') AND MY DAUGHTER DOES NOT WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE. SHE WORKS 3 JOBS AND IS THINKING ABOUT GOING TO TRADE SCHOOL (SHE HAD THE MOST DIFFICULTY IN SCHOOL) ~ MY SD IS 10, BUT WHEN THE TIME COMES, IT WILL FALL ON US TO 'HELP' HER (BECAUSE HER MOTHER WON'T HELP NOW, WE HAVE NO REASON TO THINK SHE WILL STEP UP LATER) BUT SHE WILL BE EXPECTED TO HELP HERSELF AS WELL WITH GOOD GRADES, DECENT BEHAVIOR, ETC.... JUST LIKE MY SON.

4. If not, who will be paying for their college? IF THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE RULES, THEY CAN MOVE OUT, GET JOBS OR STUDENT LOANS & PAY FOR THEMSELVES. I AM NOT REWARDING BAD BEHAVIOR... NOT WITH MY KIDS, NOT WITH SD.

5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) I'M COMFORTABLE INVESTING MY MONEY INTO ALL OF THE KIDS' FUTURES IF THEY ARE APPRECIATIVE OF THE INVESTMENT. I AM NOT GOING TO WASTE MONEY ON A KID THAT IS GOING TO PARTY & FAIL, OR ON A KID THAT BITES THE HAND THAT FEEDS IT.

6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? OUR DECISION TO HELP IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO DEPEND ON OUR FINANCES AT THE TIME. OF COURSE, OUR FINANCIAL SITUATION IS NOT THE FIRST CONSIDERATION. I WOULD BORROW MONEY FOR A CHILD THAT IS TRYING... I WOULD NOT SPEND MONEY I HAVE SAVED ON A CHILD THAT IS JUST TRYING TO SKATE BY...


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silverswood

of course if you are a parent by the time you are in college it is entirelly different story. why do you even compare? i assumed we were talking about dependent college children not the ones who are married, and raising their own children.

also if you were SAHM i assume someone else paid your bills. OK, maybe those weren't your parents but somebody did. so how is it better than parents paying for their children's (who aren't married and and are not SAHMs)college?


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gifted children vs. ungifted

Not to step on anyone's toes, rain on anyone's parade or anything like that, but in my opinion... it is a disservice to kids to categorize them as 'gifted'.

Don't get me wrong, there are kids that get things, excel and thrive in school... I know this. But, my sister's son ~"gifted" son~ was the family gem... she even mortgaged her house to send him to a University when she really couldn't afford to because she wanted him to have a 'better' education that he 'deserved' and blah blah blah. Well, he partied the first year away~ not sure he even made it through the second semester. Long story short, she ended up in bankruptcy and he moved back~ not home with her because he thinks very little of adult children living at home.. so he took a job as a waiter and got an apartment. He looks down on her because she hasn't 'done anything with her life' and hardly acknowledges the family... including her. It's truly sad and while I know not all 'gifted' kids are going to turn out like that, I wonder if he would have turned out with such a big head if she hadn't puffed it up for so many years.

Just a thought


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both
2. Do you have children of college age? yes
3. If so, who is paying for their college? 1/2 - 1/2 both sets of parents.
4. n/a
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) It's our kids -- I know we're responsible... it would be nice to also be included in decisions like what school to attend, and not just be handed a bill.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? Even if we won a huge lottery, I would still like more involvement with SSs. It's a delicate balance. I have a relative in my life who attaches enormous, "strings" to every "gift" she ever gives. If she can't control the shots, she won't give. That feels awful, too -- there must be some in-between area.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Both BM and SM
2. No but SS29 should have gone, has not completed, should still go to college. SD36 has finished with graduate degrees.
3. No one, SD36 paid her own way, SS29 is chronic drop out. DH has helped pay, BM has not but in fairness, she couldn't afford it at the time. Believe she would have if she could have.
4. DH agreed to pay SS's tuition after high school. After all of the years, SS is expected to foot his own bills now although both parents will help somewhat.
5. No, the situation is not the way I would like it. My parents put me through college so I feel that if a parent has means that should apply to them too. This includes my adult skids. Without help, SS29 will probably never go and I think DH and BM should help him financially in this area only. SD36 mostly paid her own way with help from DH, then paid for her graduate and law degrees with some off and on help from DH. Not the way I think it should be done at all.
6. If situation were better, definitely pick up all the educational tabs. Because the skids are adults and have been living their lives it's not so simple. DS7 has a 529 plan and I foresee paying for his education although we will stop making contributions when he leaves elementary school if all goes to plan. If he becomes a professional stutdent, meaning he's in college/grad school for more than 7 years, all bets are off.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

@ Ima: Oh no, our school district identified DD as gifted and now she is doomed. And everyone else in the gifted program throughout the district is as well. Spare me! Sorry for your sister, but identifying a child as gifted is not equivalent to puffing up a child's head. DD comes from a long line of overachieving high IQ individuals so trust me, its nothing special. I was simply stating a fact. Don't be a hater.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? ONLY SM

2. Do you have children of college age? NOT YET

3. If so, who is paying for their college? -

4. If not, who will be paying for their college? I SUSPECT WE WILL BE, BM NOT TOO INTERESTED AND PROBABLY CAN'T AFFORD IT ANYWAY. MAYBE BM'S DAD WILL CHIP IN, HE'S ALWAYS THROWN MONEY AT EVERYBODY SO GRANDKIDS MIGHT GET LUCKY..

5. Is the situation as you would like it to be? HAHAHA

6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? IF WE CAN'T AFFORD IT THEN THEY'LL HAVE TO GET A LOAN OR NOT GO TO COLLEGE I SUPPOSE?


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it. And, I probably would not have worked as hard, knowing myself. I started college prior to getting married and having children but didn't finish, and surprise surprise did not have the time to do so.

I was a SAHM working 60 hours a week in a home office. I made more money than my husband did and I had amazing perks, like 100% employer paid health insurance. And I did it with a baby on my hip and my husband griping that I spent too much time studying and not enough time with him. When I was nearly finished with school I cut down to part time work.

But how is that even slightly the same as having parents pay for an education? One would assume that my receipt of a higher education would increase the family worth, and that funds were co-mingled as a spouse rather than a situation with parents, where regardless of who is working the finances would not be my responsibility, no?

Yes, my husband did have to work harder, because I was spending more time (I did most of my school through correspondence because of our remote location) on homework. Yes, he was breadwinner for a portion of that. But I was breadwinner for much longer than him. And head cook, cleaning lady, car wash, bill payer, gardener, chauffeur etc. as are most women in relationships.

Your whole assumption just rankles me. We all make choices based on our experiences. In my personal experience, and from what I've observed, it's far better to encourage children to go after what they want rather than handing it to them. I would do things a certain way for my daughter and SD based on my personal knowledge of college that perhaps you would disagree with based on your personal experience. That's fine.

I started this thread because I don't believe that SM's think their skids should be on their own for college. And if they do, it's because they think ALL children (bio or not) should find their own way. I'm a bit in the middle. I will help out, but the onus is on the student to seek out their education. IMO, it will be worth a lot more in the long run.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

I think FD was saying IF you were .... and btw working at home for $$ is not same as SAHM.

I think in intact families, parents make joint decision as to one party staying home, and consider how that will affect college.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both
2. Do you have children of college age? Not yet
3. If so, who is paying for their college?
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? Right now with finances it would be up to them to get scholarships, loans and grants.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) I am more than comfortable with it. I know BM will probably not pitch in except for fun things like buying crap for a dorm room or the such... that is her mo now... why would it change. it.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? If when he time comes we have the money (which is the idea with me going to school :-) ) I would be more than happy to pay as much of their way as possible. This would be contigent on their grades and effort though. I would not just be forking out money just because. They would still be required to have at least a part time job just as I will require them to do in high school. It builds responsibility imo... all of our kids know that when they get old enough if they want a car they will have to pay for their own insurance and the only way they will get a cell phone is when they are old enough to pay for one themselves. None of the kids know that I have started savings account for them (especially not BM) when I have extra it goes into the account. when I dont it doesnt. What they do know is I preach all of the time... do well you need scholarships for college blah blah blah... when you get old enough you will need to buy your own car responsibility blah blah blah... money set aside for them will be a nice surprise when that time comes.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

From SS,

"The way I look at it, we can always help more. Things like year abroad, clothes, helping to fix a broken car, etc. But the onus of the education should be on the one receiving it, so they know the full value of the process in which they are participating. I have seen too many of my peers get a "free ride" only to jump off midway through. That is not doing a child a service. "

I would put tuition and room and board far ahead of year abroad or car. Of course year abroad and fixing car are generally less than tuition and room and board. If my kid had to take out loans, I would strongly discouarge extras like year abroad and car.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

KKNY, why is SAHM who sits on her butt eating bon-bons not the same as SAHM who works? What's the difference? I stayed at home and I am a mom. I worked longer hours so that I could put in the majority of my time while my daughter was doing other activities or with her father. What's the difference between SAHM's who spend all day watching soaps and someone who spends all day on the computer surfing the web and a mother who gets paid for what she does during the day in the home?

And if a child needs a car to get to college and to get to work,the car being fixed is important. I personally consider year abroad to be a major component to a higher education and is usually not much more expensive than staying at home college. I would also put tuition, etc ahead of those things, but you missed my point entirely, as usual. That point was that I think it's better to be an assistant to a child's education rather than the main force/leader. And my reason is because I think it will be worth more to the child in the long run.


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Silver

"What's the difference between SAHM's who spend all day watching soaps and someone who spends all day on the computer surfing the web and a mother who gets paid for what she does during the day in the home? " - the difference is use of family resources

"That point was that I think it's better to be an assistant to a child's education rather than the main force/leader. And my reason is because I think it will be worth more to the child in the long run." - We'll just have to agree to disagree, I think parent should be the main force in FUNDING child's education. (Of course child should be the main leader is his/her own college education -- the learning part). I think where child is leader for funding part, it becomes much more likely child will not complete UG or grad school. I agree year abroad usually not that much expensive -- as to vital composnent, I think it depends on childs program. And again, fixing car and year abroad are more likely to be lessser components than the basics.

You and I obviously dont agree on college funding, but please stop with the insults that I dont understand -- oh again I keep forgetting the SM is always right.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

kkny, I don't recall anyone saying that "the SM is always right"? No one is right or wrong, not the BM, not the BD, not the SM or the SD, or the SS or the DD or the SD or the DS...it's not all "black and white",there are gray areas in life and it's just a discussion, no one has to be "right". :)


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Fine, then as I said SS and I will have to agree to disagree to disagree. But then telling me I dont understand is a putdown -- which you are so quick to call on me.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

KKNY, why am I a SM to you? This has nothing to do with me being a SM. This is what I'm talking about when I say you are missing the point and going off on a tangent.

The use of family resources: A person who stays at home caring for children is contributing just as much as the person who goes to work to support the family. The resources and their use are the same. Without the SAHP the other would not be able to go outside of the house to make a living in the same way. Therefore a spouse who stays at home, and is the house-manager and goes to college is not the same as someone who's parents pay for their college/dorm/board. IMO


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House manager

It may make sense for a parent to stay at home, or work part time with small chilren. When they get older, most people can manage quite well, with help.

I dont understand what you mean house manager and going to college. Is the "housemanager" going to college? If you propose that kids work for tuition, why is house manager not working for tuition. It seems to me most of us are house managers and work (and working for $$ at home is working).


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RE: 'round and 'round the mulberry bush...

? I meant I managed the house.

" If you propose that kids work for tuition, why is house manager not working for tuition. "

I was. That's what I'm saying. But I don't think it would matter what I say because you're going to skew it regardless.

I believe equal value should be put on someone who stays home and cares for children and the wage-earner. Therefore I believe saying that someone who stays home and goes to college is equal to someone who has parents paying for college is factitious.


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SAHM -- but no help with college??

I think taking care of infants etc may warrant staying home. With school age kids, I can not see getting a job, helping with college with the older ones, and getting after school help for the school age ones. Of couse, if the economics of that dont work, they dont work. But it would seem strange to me to be a SAHM with only school age kids and not help older ones with tuition. Actually it would seem selfish.


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RE: ...the monkey chased the weasel...

Wait, what????

My SD is 9. At the time I was going to college I was still married to my DD's father. I have one child. She was two when I went back to school.

But, to refer to your point:
Why is it more selfish to provide the same childhood for the younger children as was provided for the older ones? If someone were a SAHM for one child, now in college, why should the second child have to go to after school programs because the parent is now working to provide for the older child's college? What is the calibration on selfish behavior?

This whole post was because you seem to think SMs here believe their skids should pay their own way. I disagree. I think those who think the children should pay their own way do not discriminate between bio and step: everyone pays. And the same for those who think they should pay for their kids education, they think they should pay for both bio and step. I don't see the mothers here discriminating between bio and step in regards to paying for college.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

KK, I work part-time and also contribute from an educ. fund to our household.

BUT I don't work full-time and one of the reasons being is that it is actually harder, at least for our family, now that the kids ARE in school.

I taught full-time when DD was in preschool b/c the center she went to was open until 6 pm, and it was easier for me to pick her up around 5 pm.

She gets out of school at 3 pm now and aftercare is $10/HR. YOW. That would be $150 a week if I were working until 5:30. With teaching, I usually left work around 4:30-5:00, but then sometimes I would use that time to run to the store, post office, etc.

Then there is SS and with our schedule with him, if I were working past 3, we would need aftercare for HIM on Wed, Thurs. and every other Friday. His aftercare is $8/hr or something like that.

The problem we really have is all their extra-curricular activities! DD has swim team twice a week now, and SS has soccer once a week. Both are after school.

Last year, DD had acting once a week and ballet once a week. SS had soccer last year, and basketball clinics in the winter. In a few weeks when soccer ends, he is doing a hockey clinic.

I was super surprised by how busy their schedules got once they were in school and had activities at 4-5 pm. WOW.

As it is now---we have swim team from 5-6 on Tues/Thurs. SS also has Cub Scouts every other Thursday at 5:30 pm.

Craziness!

It makes more sense for me to be available after school for them than it does to hire someone to pick them up, drive them, etc.

Of course, that's not always an option for every family. But I just wanted to clarify that things don't always ease up when the kids are school age! And that getting after-school help can wind up being quite costly, particularly when you have more than one child and when they attend different schools.

I found my schedule a lot more flex and open to work when DD was in daycare/preschool!


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RE: Who should pay for college?

LH, you have relatively small children and you work part time, seems reasonable to me.

LH, I know it is tough. People here made fun of me for having an aupair till D could drive.

As to older children not being in after school programs, that is frequently a natural consequence of being older -- becuase family has younger ones at home. there are pluses and minues to having younger bros and sisters


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RE: Who should pay for college?

"As to older children not being in after school programs, that is frequently a natural consequence of being older -- becuase family has younger ones at home. there are pluses and minues to having younger bros and sisters"

Yes, there are, aren't there!? Sorry honey, but my priorities are making sure your younger brothers and sisters have someone at home when they get home from school, that's why I'm not going to take another job to pay for their afterschool care so that I can contribute the piddling amount that's left after expenses (more gas for the car, etc. associated with working) to your college fund.

Why is one more selfish than the other?


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double standard

"Yes, there are, aren't there!? Sorry honey, but my priorities are making sure your younger brothers and sisters have someone at home when they get home from school, that's why I'm not going to take another job to pay for their afterschool care so that I can contribute the piddling amount that's left after expenses (more gas for the car, etc. associated with working) to your college fund."

I agree with you silversword.

It does seem to turn into a Step vs Bio debate.

The funny thing is, if we were talking about a nuclear, intact family here, with older sibs, and younger sibs, no one would see anything wrong with it. When you have more children, resources are divided and it does change things financially.

You make the best decisions you can for the good of everyone in the family.

No one is *more important* than anyone else, step or bio.


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RE: No one is more important

"...You make the best decisions you can for the good of everyone in the family...No one is *more important* than anyone else, step or bio"

Thank you LH. That's exactly how I feel, and how I think most SMs here feel.


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College

Yes, whe one has more kids resources are divided. But both parents decide on whether to have more kids. I do understand dividing resources -- but to start with oh its good for college kids to earn there own tuition is to me then a rationalization.

And I said if the economics dont work (as in all there would be left would be a piddling amount), then they dont.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Well if first born should get priority off "funds" then I gues my hubby's twins aare up the creek because I am the one with the money, not him or his crazy EX. Guess it's a real good thing I don't count them not being MY first against them, huh?


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RE: Who should pay for college?

I still can't type by the way;)


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I'd love to but.....

I think if parents can pay then great but if they can't they are by no means obligated by law or child welfare agencies. You do not get arrested for not paying your childs tuition. Of course I would love for DH and myself to help as much as we can but with four kids ....They are going to have to work and help us out. We can't pay for all the costs for all four kids. Theres no way. Not unless I win the lotto and then OF COURSE I would absolutly love to pay all their living and school costs while they go. That's in the perfect world though and I don't live there.


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RE: boodle

hey boodledoo... nice to see you!


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Wait, four kids Boodle?


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Silver

Six months preggers Silver. Bwa hahahahaha. Birth Control pills do NOT work 100% and you CAN get pregnant breastfeeding. It's OK though, both parents are working so we can handle it;)


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oops

I meant five months. I'm trying to speed this pregnancy along I guess. It seems like it's been TWELVE months.


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RE: Doodle

LOL! Glad to hear J's working and you have a job too. That's great. Congratulations!


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Silversword

Huh. Who is this J of which you speak? (suspicious darty eyes inserted here)


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Irish twins! Congratulations Boodle!


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RE: Hurray!

Wait, did I say J? I meant Clay! or Hurray! or something like that...


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Sorry I high jacked:(

Thank you sweeby! The twins, the bugaboo, mommy and daddy are both very excited. BM not so much. We n't hear form her much, well at all really these days since she's on "vacation" and all. Her "vacation" timing could NOT have been any better. No drama to contend with this pregnancy.

OK I'm done high jacking....sorry Silver:)


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RE :) happy for you

NP Doodle. :)


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relevance

"Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it. And, I probably would not have worked as hard, knowing myself."

that was my point. we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant. no matter if you took basket weaving


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RE: Who should pay for college?

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? BOTH

2. Do you have children of college age? Nope, not yet

3. If so, who is paying for their college? SD will be in college in 3-4 years....her bioparents have no written agreement to this in divorce decree. BM says dad will pay, he says' nope. I tell her best get a job.
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? above answer...plus i know sd has RESP from her aunt. My son is covered by me. I put cash aside for him and i expect him to work for the rest. As for skids, its up to my dh and bm. But i highly doubt either one wants to foot the bill. Both are high school grads, dont care about education etc..etc.. i'm the one with the university degree and my sd looks up to me. But i wont foot the bill for her either way. I believe that is up to both bioparents and if both cannot produce the money due to teh financial instability of the world right now theni completely understand. Kids can also get a job like i did. My father paid for nothing and i put myself through college and university. So i dont htink its only up tot he parents but also the individual going to school and how serious they are as a student.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) NA
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? It wouldn't change. I think the young adult should work and apply for bursary and loans. Parents can help if they can but not be forced.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

"we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant. "

Really? Who is this WE you speak of? As I recall, I started this thread. I think I know as well as anyone what WE are discussing. When my parents decided to pay for my college out of high school I know what I would have done. Partied and goofed off. I'm glad I didn't push through then because I would have been left with a pile of poo for education.

What is a "grown-up" to you? Someone who is over 18? Someone who no longer lives in the house? Someone who has taken a year off after high school? Do they still apply? It's ridiculous and offensive that you would say my experiences are irrelevant.

I started college after high school. I finished college as a young, married mother. I found the experience of paying my own way to be of more benefit to my educational experience than that which was paid by my parents.

DISCLAIMER...This will not be the case for everyone. My personal experiences will not be good for everyone. Everyone will not achieve the same results... proceed with caution!!!

LOL. I started this because I disagree with the statement that ALL SM's don't think they should pay for Skids college. I disagree. I think decisions for paying for college run deeper, and for most SM's here, that decision will not change whether for Skids or Biokids.

MY decision, for both kids, is to support as much as I can, but not give them a "free ride". I don't think that is a good idea, based on my history, and that I have seen in other families. Everyone is welcome to do as they like, I have no problem with that. But to say my experiences aren't valid? That's just rude.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

No one said your experience werent valid -- its just that discussing paying for college the discussion makes sense to analyize for younger kids, rather than kids long out of that house.

Again, no one was trying to say your experience wasnt valid, so theres no need to call anyone rude.


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RE: Relevancy

KKNY Posted by kkny (My Page) on Sun, Oct 11, 09 at 13:25..."No one said your experience werent valid..."

Yes, KKNY, FD did say that my experiences were not relevant because they did not fit into the discussion. She postulates that the discussion is about college age kids, therefore my experience as an adult paying for college is not relevant to the discussion, ero my opinion that kids should have to work for their education in order to get the most of it is not relevant. I beg to differ. My opinion is relevant, as the opinion of someone who's parents paid the whole way and they graduated with honors. We are a cumulation of our experince, which has a direct effect on how we raise our children.

...posted by finedreams (My Page) on Sat, Oct 10, 09 at 12:52: "...we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

She was saying not relevant for this discusion, not that it isnt valid.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Hmmm... KKNY said something that I believe is true here, that most students who start in Community Colleges here in the US DON'T move on to 4 year universities. That being said, MANY do go on to 4 year universities and community colleges are cheap compared to most 4 year schools along with having only the requirement of a high school diploma. For a really motivated person it's a great avenue.

I went to college at 17. Of course, that was many years ago and kids just started kindergarten earlier. My mother worked so I had to go to school young I guess. I won't say I had the smoothest transition from home to college at 17 as I went to college 3000 miles away from home, had no budgeting skills and went a bit(ok, more than a bit) wild as a freshman. However, I did graduate on time as my parents made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that their money would be over in 4 years. There were a lot of people who started at 17 in my class in college back in the day. Also, if I had to work, really work, not just part time jobs for fun money, I'm not sure I would have made it through and definitely not in four years!

I really wish my SS29 would go and finish college. That is about the ONLY thing that I would be willing to sacrifice for on his behalf and that includes his kids. That way he would have at least some chance of being an independent adult one day which would be better for everyone involved including me! Yep, I'm motivated by self interest on that one!


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Lamom, kudos to you and your parents. I think it is important when parents make it clear to kids that they are on board with the funding part of college.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Thanks...well, I learned from my parents. They sacrificed for me to go but made it clear that I had 4 years to get up and out with a degree. And that did not include a graduate degree, that I had to pay for myself.

They also made it clear that I was expected to work during the summers for spending money and after college get busy, get a real job and get off of their dime! Their attitude was that they paid my tuition, most of my big expenses, got me to 21 years of age with a degree, no criminal record, no babies, no tattoos and they were done!

I sure don't see any of that operating at all with my SS29, BM or even really DH when it comes to my SS29. Throw in his two kids, sheesh. My parents were clear, give her a degree and let her work! And we'll use our money after to go on vacation (not making that part up.)


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RE: Who should pay for college?

silverswood, your experience is not relevant for this topic. it is valid, just not for this topic. it is right you started it by talking about "college age children". you said college age children (do you think married women with their own kids fall into a category of college age children?)

you were a married woman with children staying home while your husband worked and you went to school, i mean of course your parents didn't help wiht college or cost of living "Duh". your husband worked, paid your cost of living and you possibly took loan or he paid for college, in any case your parents wouldn't be the ones to help. you were married. so in fact you could say that your cost of living while you were in college was paid. just not by parents, by your husband. so you can't say you supported yourself.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

Finedreams, I respectfully disagree. I started my college education when I was unmarried without children. I finished my degree as a married woman with children. Yes, I personally took out a loan. My husband did not pay my cost of living, I made a lot more money than he did and did full child care and housewife duties as well. If one were looking at it as a strictly-roommate situation one could say that I actually helped support him while I went to school.

But that is neither here nor there. I may have my opinion based on my experience.

FD ..." i mean of course your parents didn't help wiht college or cost of living "Duh". your husband worked, paid your cost of living and you possibly took loan or he paid for college,"

No, he didn't pay my cost of living. Duh yourself.


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silvers

"Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it."

here you go, you said it yourself, they would pay. the reason they didn't pay because generally parents don't pay college tuition for their married, living on their own, not dependent children.


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RE: Who should pay for college?

So what? I never said my parents should have paid for my college, whether I lived at home, or was married, or anything. I said that my experiences are what made me decide what was best for my children.

We're talking about if we would pay for college for our kids or our stepkids. I will not pay the entire thing for my kid or my stepkid, based on my experiences.


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