"I keep reminding DH that, even in families with two completely stellar parents, there are sometimes kids whose attitude and behavior is not what one would have hoped for."

Totally agree. What a mess indeed! Sounds like your DH is doing the right thing by not coddling this young adult.

Thanks, Amber. DH says that SS may not grow up to be as he hoped - but DH firmly believes that if he allows him to just run away from any responsibility, there is no chance.

--" DH says if there was absolutely any indication that OSS was making an effort his answer might be different "--

Tough place for your Dh to be. This has got to be a hard decision for your DH to be facing.Of course he loves his son, but his saying 'no' seems to show he loves his son enough to KNOW this is not the answer. Moved back to BM because he had expectations at Dad's. Now he wants to hide out at Dad's because suddenly BM has some sort of expectations (no trashing computers, get off buns and stop playing games all day ect). Pfft. Nope, it's time not to keep running from one parent to another but to start taking seriously that it's time to realize either live by the rules or work at having the ability to move out on his own...working, schooling, military. Whatever it takes to get himself up and out.

Sad as it sounds, maybe having to couch surf at friends for a bit...who will not tolerate him and the childish behavior and/or be his friend for long under the situations of no job, no money...might be the eye opener he needs. That no one is going to 'take care of' him like a child forever. It's a scary risk because anything could happen (find trouble, start dangerous habits, get physically hurt, ect). But some people just have to find out the hard way that life is not going to be full of video games, and sleeping all day while others pull your weight. Dh already tried and OSS fled rejectioning Dad's efforts. Now it's BM who is so 'mean'. The kid wants his cake and to eat it too.

He absolutely says 'no' to the military? So it's 'no' to a job, 'no' to schooling, 'no, no, no' to everything but playing games all day ...which is exactly what he'll be doing at 25 or 30 if his BM/Dad keep making it 'easy' on him by letting him hid from the adult world. I can't blame your DH for saying 'NO' here, except for it'd be a different bedroom to snooze in, a different plate to have his dinner served up on, nothing will have changed to truly help this kid move into the adult world (not that you/Dad would not try to help but that he would reject it, he's quit willing to be 'taken care of' and continue on with doing/being nothing). OSS appears from what you say to not be at a point yet where he acknowledges HE and his behavior and/or lack of behavior are the problem.

Besides all that, it'd be a poor role model for YSS to have his brother at adult size and age hanging out doing nothing and likely the brother also griping now about 'mean Dad/SM'. Right now YSS has Dad/SM as role models who are educated, work hard and do all the adult things people are 'suppose' to do. At his young impressionable age it would not serve well to now have a grown man in the house that refuses to not only act a part of the household (rules, chores, going off to school/work) but one who will do nothing but snarl and fight with Dad/SM because they are 'mean' and want him to 'grow-up' and don't plan to enable him to remain a child. YSS is secure in your household, it'd be terrible if YSS suddenly saw you/Dad as the 'evil parents' being 'mean' to his older brother and maybe thinking the way you/Dad are currently raising YSS is wrong, all wrong. It could really set YSS back. Your DH has two sons to think about here. Having one there that will fight you/Dad on every bit of becoming a productive adult could perhaps ruin all the right steps you both have tried to install in YSS.

"Your DH has two sons to think about here. Having one there that will fight you/Dad on every bit of becoming a productive adult could perhaps ruin all the right steps you both have tried to install in YSS."

Thanks, JustMeToo. Honestly, I think that YSS was one of the bigger determining factors. We've been trying so very hard to teach him cause and effect, actions and consequences, good actions win increased responsibility or rewards, bad behavior removes them, and static behavior gets you nowhere. (By "responsibility" I mean things that he wants, like being allowed to walk to the playground with a friend or having his own personal small pet in a cage.) If OSS were taking no responsibilities how on earth could we explain that to YSS? And I've got no desire nor any time to have to lock down electronic equipment or snacks to prevent an adult from using/eating them!

OSS says "No" to the military but DH and I still hold out some small hope for that. I really think it would be the best thing for him. Honestly I hope a recruiter gets hold of him and he slides into enlisting because it's the path of least resistance at that time. But I just don't know what's going to happen. It puzzles me because I just don't understand the thought processes that would allow a young adult to sit around and do absolutely nothing and think that good things will somehow follow from that.