Honestly, I wouldn't go. Have a nice spa weekend for yourself without DH and feel lucky you won't have to drive so far. Tell SD you'd love to come down and take her out to lunch one day later in the year.

Plan your next B&B weekend when it doesn't revolve around anything in which BM could possibly get involved.

I think since you and DH decided to go first and hopefully informed BM, you two should go and she and her DH go on a separate occasion.

If it was not discussed ahead of time then BM and DH should just go, but it was planned ahead of time, right?

I don't mind my ex at all, but don't want boat rides with him, if my ex and SM originally planned something, I wouldn't impose myself. But I wouldn't go on trips with SO and his ex either, luckily SO does not even speak to BM.

I don't think it is nice to ask BM to have her own ride but I don't think she should come at all if originally she said "no", can't just change plans.

I don't mind my ex, but I just don't see going on a boat ride with him asking SO to sit on a shore. LOL How would that look? and we aren't even married, still weird. And if SO asked me to wait for him awhile he is on a boat ride with BM, it would be the end of our relationship LOL

On the other hand if I had to ride with DD's SM, I wouldn't mind, she is fun. I'd rather ride with her than with exDH haha Maybe that's not a bad option for you...

yes that sounds like a wasted weekend if you go. They three will be a family, and you will be a third wheel.

"avoid spending time with BM, who makes him so uncomfortable."

I am not entirely sure that's the case...you keep saying he is avoiding her, yet his actions speak otherwise. just because he says she makes him uncomfortable, doesn't make it so. He is willing to have miserable weekend....ha...My ex doesn't make me uncomfortable yet I wouldn't consider such arrangement. And DH can't really say he is afraid to upset BM because of custody or visitations or her alienating the kids, kids are grown. he can't blame fear anymore.

"Time for another one of those stepmother decisions. I sure thought they would end when the kids were in college."

HA. My DH is always telling me that as soon as SS is in college, we will no longer have any contact with BM. I always say "yeah right!" He is so naive.

There's college, then marriage, then grandkids...BM will always be *there.*

Honestly, I wouldn't go. Ditto silversword, I'd bow out and let DH go.

How far of a drive is it? I personally would feel really weirded out riding in the car with BM and I think it's kind of nerve-y of her to ask. Or wait--did SD ask? Either way, I think BM can and should arrange her own transportation, rather than tagging along in a car with you and her EX hubby.

Weird, weird, weird.

I think the woman has some boundary issues. I just cannot fathom her actually WANTING to do this. I mean, great if she has decided to attend the college weekend, more power to her--but to want to ride down with her ex and his wife? And stay at the same B&B?

I swear, she gets off on infiltrating your plans.

Silversword said: "Plan your next B&B weekend when it doesn't revolve around anything in which BM could possibly get involved."

I am starting to think there IS no such thing!

Lovehadley said: "I swear, she gets off on infiltrating your plans."

It's hard not to think that, Love!

Parent of One said: "And if SO asked me to wait for him awhile he is on a boat ride with BM, it would be the end of our relationship LOL"

Ha, I wish he had even asked that, instead of saying "Oh, Ulrike1, you and BM go." Oh how fun that sounds. Must admit that I did talk to him again briefly about the issue, and I think I judged him a bit too harshly earlier, thinking he was just trying to back me into a corner where I couldn't complain about being excluded. He told me this afternoon that he truly doesn't want to go, because DD will probably walk around the boat with her friends and leave him to endure BM's endless brainless chatter. So maybe it isn't quite as much of a problem--we can both skip the boat ride part.

Part of the problem is that from early on, we have done things with BM, and then with her DH when she remarried. For various reasons, we decided early on that DH should not miss events in his daughters' lives just because of the hard feelings between them. This was a challenge in the years when BM still seemed to think DH's primary allegience should be to her. Later it became easier, and she softened toward me (even though she thinks I am responsible for SDs and even grown-up DH not following her own faith path, which is a constant thorn in her side). So the pattern is so set that she will do kid things with us. And how would we say no? "No, you can't come to your own daughter's school thing because we already are going"--we can't exclude her, I don't think.

I am probably more resentful than I should be, because that is exactly how my ex-H and I handle most things; we take turns. We agreed, pretending to be joking but we really weren't, that we feel most free to enjoy time with the children when the other one isn't there. No "one big happy family."

I still feel like staying home.

I think they both have boundary issues, not just BM. BM might instigate, but DH goes along with it. Really it is just easier to blame someone else rather than your own partner.

SO made a decision to have sepapate events, after OSD wedding and YSD college graduation no more events together. He is not willing to participate in anything together. Too much animosity and BM's BF is way too embarrassing. BM and BF are just so trashy that SO can't deal with embarrassment.

My exDH loves to have "one big family" but luckily we live far away and have to take turns with DD. Otherwise i would have to go through the same ordeal.

I guess you should stay home and let them go, how about you do something with your kids the same weekend?

"And how would we say no? "No, you can't come to your own daughter's school thing because we already are going"--we can't exclude her, I don't think."

No, you definitely can't say that. BUT I think you would be well within your rights--or DH would--to say "Great! So glad you decided to go. See you down there" and nix the shared transportation, etc.

I agree with parent that your DH has boundary issues. He may claim it makes him *uncomfortable* but obviously not uncomfortable enough because he still does it.

It's kind of like my DH in his wacked out relationship with BM. He gets *something* out of it. Now, I am NOT saying your DH has feelings for BM or anything of the sort, but I think he must get something out of the situation...does he feel like the saintly parent? Like he's the self-sacrificing one for the sake of his daughters? Maybe he enjoys feeling that way, like the martyr parent? I hope this does not sound critical, I certainly don't mean it to. I just think parent is onto something when she says your DH has boundary issues, as well as BM.

I can see how frustrating it would be for you especially since you and your ex do NOT parent like that. Honestly, I think more divorced parents are the way YOU are, or the way Parent is...I think most people would rather do things separately rather than acting like one big happy family.

Parent of One said "SO made a decision to have sepapate events, after OSD wedding and YSD college graduation no more events together. He is not willing to participate in anything together. Too much animosity and BM's BF is way too embarrassing. BM and BF are just so trashy that SO can't deal with embarrassment."

If that were the case in our family, things might be easier. BM is anything but trashy, and her DH is in many ways an exceptional person. If DH had the easy excuse yours does, it would be a simple matter to say "We won't be where you are, even if we miss the kids' events." Don't think I haven't occasionally imagined it, ha!

My reasoned opinion about why DH says it makes him uncomfortable to spend time with BM is because...it does! I haven't seen him in over a decade opt himself to talk to her or spend time with her unless it was about the girls. Parent of One said, "Really it is just easier to blame someone else rather than your own partner." My DH would laugh at that one...I do tend to hold him to a higher set of expectations in that regard than I do other people--probably fallout from my own upbringing. Once at our counselor, DH said "Ulrike1 acts like she doesn't trust me!" and the wise counselor said, "If Ulrike thought for one minute that you wanted to be with BM, she would be gone in a dazzlingly fast moment."

It's so complicated...I never feel any competition with the girls; if he has to break a date with me or is otherwise unavailable because one of them needs something, it's as warm and nice a feeling as if it were one of my kids having the need (and it often is). My heart is touched by a father doing that. It's having BM be part of the equation that just sets off my grouchies and annoyance. Like, he planned to have YSD ride with us! And spend that time with her! And to get that, we have to tolerate BM. I know if I say I'm not going, he won't go either...don't want to do that.

Love give me a break,

If this were your kid going off to college, you wouldnt consider it interloping to go.

I see overstepping by both sides here. OP talks about attending an event for "parents". Shes not a parent. Not of this kid.

My advice -- dont ever plan on attending an event for a kid without BM showing up. Plan your romantic events NOT around kid things.

kkny I see your point, but BM originally said she isn't attending so DH and SM planned to go, now it is just getting complicated. If BM originally planned to attend, then of course planning romantic time with SM would be strange. Now BM isn't just showing up, he is riding with DH and SM. Why? Uncomfortable for everyone.

ulrike, my SO would never tell his ex that we won't be there because she is. He is not a rude person. But everything is arranged so adult kids get attention from both sides of the family without discomfort you or DH have to go through. One can do it without being rude. I think at this age kids understand that parents are not together anymore and don't have to spend time together.

I see several things going on here.

1. DH needs to set boundaries.
2. SD needs to realize that her family is made up of four parents and be very clear what she wants.

I agree, BM shouldn't be able to go back on her decline for the invite. But it's SD who should be the one to say, Mom, I'd really like you there, but I only have two tickets, and I promised them to OP and Dad because you said you weren't coming. OR, she should go to Dad and OP and say, hey, I know I promised you these tickets, but I really want Mom there. Do you mind?

In this case, I think KKNY is right on some aspects:

1. Don't plan romance around any kid function. BM will ruin it, but it won't be her fault, it will be yours for not paying attention to the pattern.

2. Make sure when you are invited, it is by SD, and you ask, are you sure you wouldn't rather have your mom here. Once that's settled, if BM comes back and says "I wanna go" SD can say sorry, I've already invited SM. And if she doesn't take the initiative to clear things up, then the next time say "sorry, but the last time I made plans and your mom went instead; I think it's great that you want to spend time with her and I hope you guys have a good time.But it's awkward for me to make these plans and then not do them, so I'd rather you take your BM unless you really want me to go."

My guess is SD is oblivious to the strife she is causing (yes, she is playing a part here too) and BM doesn't realize she's not a part of YOUR immediate family. Dad is a typical doofy dad and just wants kid to be happy and BM to be off his back, and he knows you are nice enough to bend.

Don't. Take this for the opportunity it is, and have a nice spa weekend. Tell DH, no thanks, but I know you'll have fun. I'd rather do XYZ.

You are not his savior. You do not need to save him from BM. This is his unkempt bed. Let him sleep in it without you bringing him blankets and fluffing his pillow.

That said, I would attend an event with X without my DH. And if I couldn't attend and WBSM wanted to go, and then my plan s changed... I would tell her, hey, sorry, my plans changed. Would you mind if I went with X.

I get what KKNY is saying. It's not your birth kid, birth parents get first rights. But if you give up your ticket to ride it's extremely rude to assume you can walk right in and take it back without so much as a how-de-doo.

Imagine the ticket had gone to Uncle, or Aunt, or Grandparents. The only reason this is happening is because it's SM. Bow out gracefully, but don't get yourself in this situation again.

And have a nice spa weekend.

Silver, thanks for your thoughtful analysis, and I think you are spot on as regards how I should handle these things in the future. And that includes not being so afraid that SD will know that Mom and Dad and Ulrike1 aren't perhaps as friendly as they seem. Did you ever see that poignant Italian film "Life Is Good," where the dad tries to protect the little boy from knowing they are in Auschwitz? Sometimes my DH reminds me of that dad, never wanting the SDs to have to experience any family strife. During their divorce, BM badmouthed him to the girls but he never said a word. And thanks to time and (I flatter myself) our patience with BM, she became more civil. I am pretty sure the girls have no inkling of how much their mother's intrusions distress me.

We had no clue that BM would want to, or be able to, attend this event because she specifically said she couldn't. She asked DH if he could take time off work to drive SD, and asked him to take notes from the presentation for her. It's eye-opening for me that most of you ladies see her sudden change of plans as rude, because I have been so trained perhaps to buy the KKNY-style thinking, which is the Sacredness of Motherhood must trump any and all needs/plans of mere spouses.

So I think in the future, if DH and I plan a weekend around visiting SD (which we do several times a year), I am going to insist that he double check with SD that her mother will not also be there, even though he will have to be tipping his hand that we don't want to be with her.

I think SD, as many children of divorce, still likes seeing her parents attending events together. I know my DD likes it. She also likes that her parents get along while so many others don't. I think SD feels the same way. I wouldn't blame the kids.

I personally do not mind riding in a car with ex and SM (and I did on number of occassions), it wouldn't bother me a bit. I could go on a boat ride as well. And I know my DD would be thrilled. But I wouldn't be able to go on a boat ride while ex's wife sits on a shore. Just too rude. I'd rather she not come at all as to save everyone headache (including herself).

I've been to events with ex and SM where ex went to long explanations who is who and frankly it looked like exDH has 2 wives. I was very uncomfortable. And DD doesn't look like me so no one would assume that I am her mother. And SM is too young to be DD's mother. And ex looks young and in fact so do I (well we actually are rather young). So it looks like exDH has 3 wives with him. hahah I'd rather it was me and him and DD or I was not there at all. I only tolerated it for DD.

My exDH on the other hand was as happy as a clam, who doesn't like being surrounded by women? haha I bet you DH is excited too.

I'd probably stay home.

Parent of One, bless your heart, I think you are projecting your ex's Hugh Hefner-like characteristics onto my DH. Even if he liked being "surrounded by women," BM wouldn't be one of them. But I've sure experienced moments like you describe, where BM's clinginess forces DH to explain who's who, when we are with people who don't know us.

I think part of it is just what one gets used to, don't you? Because my ex and his wife and I spend very little time together, I am kind of uncomfortable around them, not wanting to be intrusive on her, etc. She seems very nice--younger than me but seems very smart and mature, and my kids like her, so she must be wonderful, ha. But there's distance.

I wonder if part of that is being ex-spouses? Because DH is just as uncomfortable with BM, more so than I am. Part of his strategy is to edge her off on me, ha. When we are together, she often ends up talking to me much more than him, because I will answer with more than a couple of words. But I don't enjoy it, except that SDs are witnessing it.

One funny thing - DH hates when BM rides in the front seat with him because she will lean over and touch his arm while she's talking and it creeps him out - so if we are going somewhere with SDs and BM, we'll work it so one of the SDs rides in the front and the other in the back between me and BM, or if only one SD is in the car, BM and I in the back. During those rides she touches me just like she does him and occasionally discusses very personal things with me.

Yuck I thought those carpool days were over but apparently not.

"I think SD, as many children of divorce, still likes seeing her parents attending events together. I know my DD likes it. She also likes that her parents get along while so many others don't. I think SD feels the same way. I wouldn't blame the kids."

Parent of One, I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on this. After my parents were divorced, whenever they were forced into proximity at the same events, they tried their best to be civil and polite - but despite their best efforts it was obvious to me, even as a pre-teenager, from their awkward stilted conversations that it was difficult for them. I appreciated their efforts but would never have wanted my parents to be uncomfortable any longer than they had to be on my account. 15-30 minutes of posing for pictures in a cap and gown - fine. Four hours of their driving together and spending an event seated next to each other for my own gratification - not fine.

Divorced parents are not together. They should both be involved parents, they should be able to communicate regarding their children - but they divorced for a reason. That's great if they truly are friendly after the divorce but that is rarely the case, I think.

A college student should have the maturity and sensitivity to realize if one or both parents are not comfortable spending a deal of time together. Furthermore, a college student should also realize that one does not withdraw invitations after they have been accepted, no matter who changes their plans because it sounds like fun after all.

Ulrike, I think silversword's post is spot-on and great advice. This is not your mess to have to fix.

Ulrike, I did see that movie. Tragic. "that includes not being so afraid that SD will know that Mom and Dad and Ulrike1 aren't perhaps as friendly as they seem."

Are you afraid? Or is dad afraid? I presume that SD probably already knows. If not, I think it's healthy to say something along the lines of "I'm really glad you and your mom have such a great relationship, I think that's really important. I'm sure you can understand that it has been awkward at times for both your mom and I, and your dad too. We're all learning how to form new relationships with one another. When you were younger it was really important that you had stable adults in your life who worked together and we've all worked really hard to provide that because we all love you. Now that you're older, we are still here for you but as individuals rather than as a team. Both your dad and I like your mom and SD but we'd rather spend time with you one-on-one. Sometimes getting along can be hard for us, but it has nothing to do with you, and I hope that you can tell us if we are affecting you."

"A college student should have the maturity and sensitivity to realize if one or both parents are not comfortable spending a deal of time together. Furthermore, a college student should also realize that one does not withdraw invitations after they have been accepted, no matter who changes their plans because it sounds like fun after all."

That's it Mattie. And, if a college student doesn't, it's time to gently make her aware of the facts. Otherwise you'll be uncomfortable for a long time.

Ulkrike,

Its not about mom being the golden one. My god, the kids are in college, how much time is there with them. YOU are the golden one with your DH anytime kids are not their.

My guess is the stepkids recognize that YOU have tried to take moms place. And are sad.

KKNY, I think you might be projecting your own hopes about how your children would feel? That you'd hope they would be resentful and sad if their father was happy with someone else, besides you? And hate her? For some, that is a fervent wish. For others, not so much. Personal taste.

I doubt my SDs think I have tried to take their mom's place--for heaven's sake, this whole thread is about how when she decided to do something, I stepped aside. If anything, it might be nice for them to see her usurped occasionally; they themselves might feel more comfortable going against her wishes if any of the adults in her life did more often. BM is basically a nice person but oh, does she like to control things.

mattie, you probably misunderstood or I didn't express myself correctly. I meant kids like it if both parents could be present at events and could be civil. It is nice to see that mom and dad are capable of putting their difference aside for the sake of their children. I don't think any kids are excited that their parents are so hostile that they cannot even attend events together.

Saying that it is silly to force one's divorced parents to spend time together and play "family". DD never made us uncomfortable or asked us to be present anywhere together. We've been divorced for 18 years and I can count on my fingers how many times I had to be at the same event, very few. And it was never because DD asked. She is not immature or clueless. And I don't have boundaries issue.

WHAT???? why would BM ride in the car next to DH and you sit in the back????

why would SD sit with her dad while his wife sits in the back???

this is the most bizarre arrangement I have ever heard. If I had to ride with ex and SM, I would never sit up front, his wife would.

How embarrassing for a wife! How do you tolerate this? You sit in the back???? his exwife sits next to him??? did i read it right?

or SD sits with him and both ex and current wives sit in the back??? what the heck is going on? I think this is all hopeless.. wow Unless I read it wrong, it is just too dysfunctional for my taste.

Oh Parent, I'm sorry, all the abbreviations and pronouns made that description incomprehensible! No, BM doesn't ride in the front with DH unless it's just the two of them. If it's just us three, she rides in the back by herself. But if one or more SDs is along (and I know this goes against KKNY's picture of me as wanting to drag BM behind the car on a rope), we have an SD ride up front with DH and I ride in the back with BM. I know that sounds weird, but I am more comfortable that way. It makes the conversation on the way go better and DH gets to spend a little time with SD that way. When I first explained to DH why I like that particular seating chart, I told him that it is a statement to everyone present that this is being done for SDs.

oh boy, ulrike, for a minute I thought exwife sits in the front and you in the back. oh my, what a picture....thanks for clarification. you almost gave me heart attack here LOL

Sorry, I did misunderstand you. I've seen divorced parents whose older and/or adult children still want them to "play family". When the parents cave in it usually strikes me as allowing guilt parenting to override their common sense. To me, the message that it sends is not "your parents both love you and support you" but rather "your whims and wishes are more important than our lives and we shall always try to give you whatever you want, no matter what the personal cost to us may be".

KK, if Mom was so anxious to spend time with her daughter than perhaps she should not have declined the invitation in the first place? Or did Ulrike use her super SM mental powers (we have them, ya know!) to telepathically bend BM to her will so that she originally said she couldn't come - all so Ulrike could "take her place"?

Maybe mom saw the program and it looked interesting. My X has never seen my DDs college, never visited, never taken her there, but I would never count on him not going. She's his DD and he is entitled to attend anything for parents.

oh boy. Ulrike didn't "count on BM not going". BM said she wasn't going. The next people in line stepped up.

Any parent who feels the need to be the "golden one" (whatever that means) has an overinflated ego.

As long as you are a genuine person the kids will see that and you will have a relationship with them. Trying to moderate the relationship an older child has with another person is ridiculous. The kid knows who their parents are, and if you're a half-decent parent they'll love you the most.

Maybe mom did decide she wants to go. That's fine. But there is a standard of behavior that she's lacking. It's called courtesy. I don't care who pushed the squalling child out into the world, it doesn't give them the E-ticket to life at the expense of everyone else in the room.

I let my DD choose if she wants me to go, if she wants dad to go, if she wants to sit next to SF or WBSM or aunt or uncle or whatever. And if she doesn't choose me I feel blessed that I have so many people she loves and feels comfortable around and that she doesn't have some unhealthy attachment disorder or misplaced responsibility for my mental/emotional health.

I'm sure the boat ride looks like a lot of fun. Ever read the story about King Solomon and the baby? The fake mother says "split the baby". The real mother says "give him to her, let him live". I feel like the same sort of thing is going on here. You know who is the real mother by the one who is not acting selfishly.

Entitled, schmentitled. Parent gets first pick, that's all. If they decline, goes to the next in line. If they want to rescind their declination they should use their manners. Since that's obviously not the class of woman BM is, drive on up to the high road and quit stopping for passengers.

"I let my DD choose if she wants me to go, if she wants dad to go, if she wants to sit next to SF or WBSM or aunt or uncle or whatever. And if she doesn't choose me I feel blessed that I have so many people she loves and feels comfortable around and that she doesn't have some unhealthy attachment disorder or misplaced responsibility for my mental/emotional health."

Beautifully, wonderfully said, Silver.

For all the faults my hubby has in regards to our marriage, when it comes to his son, THIS is how he behaves. And the result shows. SS adores his dad. I find it really endearing (and eye opening) that he voluntarily calls his dad to say hi throughout the day when he's with BM; but when he's with us, he doesn't say a WORD about wanting to talk to his mom. In fact, more and more, when it's bedtime and DH hands him the phone and says "call your mom," SS groans.

Kids can tell who's genuine and who's...not.

Sorry for the hijack.

I think Silver said it beautifully.