i feel for you...I don't really have much advice...Others with young children might be more helpful here.

Seems that your husband is doing guilt parenting. He must feel guilty that his son is growing up without a decent mother so he overcompensates for it.

Your stepson is learning manipulation, now he is 8, but what's going to happen when he is 16 and demands new car or 22 and refuses to work? if your husband does not listen to you, maybe there is some other relative he would listen to, or maybe you can buy him parenting book? I think he is just clueless and doesn't understand danger of such bad parenting...

That is what I am worried about. He is 8 and runs my husband. I know it will only get worse as he is older. My husbands family is oblivious to it. My mother in law gives him whatever he wants when he turns on the tears.

My husband has one sibling who has older children, but he is the opposite of my husband. He is all over his kids all the time about everything.

The whole situation bothers me so much that I catch myself punishing my stepson at night for things he does when my husband is home during the day! Last night I grounded my stepson all night from any electronics because he cried during lunch. I have him a sandwich, he took a few bites and declared he was full. So I had him put it in a ziploc bag in the fridge for when he gets hungry and told him no snacks till the sandwich was gone. Not even 5 minutes later I caught my husband and him eating chips, my husband did not know about the sandwich. So I told my stepson if he was hungry he needed to finish his sandwich, not eat junkfood. He then cried and said he was not hungry at all. My husband said nothing. So after my husband went to work I told my stepson that he was grounded for trying to sneak chips earlier and then crying about it when he got caught. I also told him that if he cried to daddy about no electronics when he got home from work I would make sure that no electronics was more than a one day punishment. I have even told my stepson that I am tired of his crying games with daddy.

I feel like I am mean and overpunishing because I am so frustrated. But then I feel like if I let it go I am adding to the problem. If my husband would just deal with the behaviors then I would not have to. But this kid has a biological mom who is absolutely useless and a dad who does not realize that he needs to be a parent instead of a bff to the kid!

momdr, I'm not sure how much helpful advice I have but I can completely sympathize with you. My DH did and sometimes (rarely) still does baby SS8, and the "excuses" for his behavior are so familiar too. My DH also had SS8 since he was a baby (I also have an older SS but he was 11 at the time of their divorce, which seems to have changed that dynamic), erratic and unstable BM, etc. And I'm working from home now so I'm the sort-of stay at home SM too.

I think PO1 is right and it is guilt parenting. I also think that, at least with DH, it is a youngest child thing - it's not that he doesn't want his "baby" to grow up but he's not anxious to rush it either. That might come into play with your DH and the different expectations for the two boys. Finally, I think with DH that he was sub-consciously worried that if SS got any punishments that SS would be angry at him or hate him or something. Once DH realized that, if a child knows what the penalty for something will be, does it anyway, and receives said penalty, they don't hold a grudge or anything, it started getting better (with DH) as well. I think children are very conscious of what is "fair" and what's not - and a defined punishment for a defined act is very fair.

What I did was to try to talk to DH about particular behaviors at a calm private time, not in the heat of the moment, so to speak. And I would calmly say why I was concerned by something, did he agree that that particular behavior was not something that should continue forever (like the whole climbing into bed with us thing - we had that too) and then would try to work out a plan for modifying that behavior. DH could (and sometimes still does) excuse away any one particular instance, and I think sometimes that was the problem - he wasn't realizing just how frequently these "exceptions" were occurring. In the abstract it was a lot more difficult for him to justify to himself.

The crying thing would be a very good place to start. If I may make a suggestion, I'm not sure a punishment for crying is the way to go. Perhaps your DH will agree that what an eight year old (and focus on a generic eight year old, not SS in particular!) who is not physically hurt or suffered an emotional blow but is crying needs is some quiet time to "get it all out". So, if SS starts crying because he doesn't want to eat lunch, fine. He can go to his room to "rest" for a few minutes, until he feels better, and then re-join the family. Crying, like temper tantrums, only works so long as it is getting attention. But this is something you and DH need to agree on beforehand.

I'm also wondering if your DH is starting to realize that SS is being manipulative but is putting you in the "bad cop" role.

"Finally, I think with DH that he was sub-consciously worried that if SS got any punishments that SS would be angry at him or hate him or something."

I think this is so typical. My SO is terrified to say "no" to his ADULT kids because he is scared they will not talk to him or not call or not visit. They employ this technique with both mom and dad and he falls for it every time.

So I think that if your DH allows such manipulation AT 8, things only are going to get worse. If he doesn't understand word "no" at 8, he won't be able to say "no" when SS is 28 and asks for expensive vacations, fancy dinners at restaurants, constant changing plans to accommodate him, $1000 worth Christmas gifts etc

It has to stop now. I am a very lenient parent, but even I think SS's behavior is ridiculous.

Mattie said: "Crying, like temper tantrums, only works so long as it is getting attention. But this is something you and DH need to agree on beforehand."

I totally agree.
SS is 11 (with severe ADHD and recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so he's "young" in many ways).
A few years ago, he often threw big crying fits over simple little things, like too many peas on his plate. He'd be screaming and sobbing and DH didn't know what to do. I suggested that we tell him something like "You can calm down now and eat your peas, or you can go to your room until you've calmed down and you can eat them when you come out. Either way, you're eating the peas."
It's been HIGHLY effective for us. When he realized he wasn't getting reactions anymore, the crying really decreased. It still happens once in a while, but not at the level it was (it was multiple times a day).

I also got sick of when he tried to play us off one another. Here's a typical example:
"Ceph, can I go on the computer?"
"Not right now. It's almost lunchtime. Would you help out by setting the table please?"
"OK, I'm going to go to the bathroom first," and then he'd go find DH and whine that he was bored and wanted to go on the computer. DH, not realizing that he'd just been aked to help instead, would say OK.
SS would go on the computer, give the the smuggest look and say "Well my dad said I could." Then he'd get mad when I booted him off and it would cause a fight between DH and I.

It took multiple fights with me saying "What caused this fight? It wasn't that I said he couldn't go on the computer, because that was perfectly reasonable for the information I had. It wasn't that you said he could, because that was also perfectly reasonable for the information you had. It was that SS tried to play us off each other and he succeeded. I think we need to talk to him about that if one of us gives him an instruction, he isn't allowed to go to the other for a different answer."
I bet we had this fight at least a dozen times.

I also agree with Mattie about that if a child is well aware of what the result will be, and if they choose to do it anyways, they're typically more likely to accept their punishment and learn from it.
This is quite effective with SS. We usually say "Next time you do X, you will lose Y privilege for Z hours/days," and he accepts it very well if it comes to that. When negative consequences came from (what he perceived as) left field, then he'd cry and whine and make a fuss. Then DH would feel guilty and say "Well, OK.... Just don't do it again." But we'd go through the exact same thing next time he did it too.

Best of luck ;)

"I think we need to talk to him about that if one of us gives him an instruction, he isn't allowed to go to the other for a different answer."

Asking if he has already asked the other would work too. "Did you ask Ceph? And what did she say?" are perfectly reasonable questions. :)

I remember doing that to my parents too... and my DD has done it to us on occasion. KIDS!!! Always testing the limits :)

Silver, if we say "Did you ask Ceph?" he'll either shrug or lie.
It's a pretty normal thing for kids to do, but it isn't an acceptable thing to do. So we changed our strategy to make us more accountable for checking with the other, and him accountable for not doing it in the first place.
He RARELY does it now, as he learned that it's not worth it to try. But if he does what he is asked or told, then he is thanked and things go well for him.

Hm. I guess I didn't take into account shrugging or lying. The shrugging would make me crazy. I don't tolerate eye rolling or uh-huh's either though. If I got a shrug, I'd probably tell DD if she can't figure that out, the answer is no.

I agree it's not acceptable. Best to nip this sort of behavior in the bud early, IMO.

I would remind my husband about how hard school is on kids, especially a boy who is a cry baby. The other kids will EAT HIM ALIVE. It would be best to find alternative methods of dealing with disappointment, anger, etc., then crying and the very best place to start practicing these alternative methods would be at home.