He is being bullied. He may be afraid of being left alone. It is sad. I do see her as instigator.

Yeah. He is. But he's a willing participant. They've been dancing this dance for 15 years now. She would NEVER leave him. IMO. He's her meal ticket.

I don't think he's afraid of being alone. I think he just has a real lack of spine and social skills.

She is an instigator. She is self-absorbed. And extremely selfish.

But he could have done this stuff on his time with her (especially since they live together, spend a lot of time together, and are about to spend the next three weeks together on vacation). He chose to do it on his very limited time with me. That's a choice he made.

He could have said to her: "We will deal with this in eight hours, when we are together. Right now I am spending a couple of hours with my daughter."

Basically, he drove for two hours to see me, got in at 10pm, fell asleep, woke up at 8am, had coffee and talked, got on the phone until the afternoon and then left to drive the three hours back in rush hour traffic. He probably spent $75 in gas and two days driving just to irritate me.

I wish I could blame this on her KKNY, and I do appreciate your words. But it's all on him.

Silver, My SS could have written ever word of what you just posted...For years, I know he has blamed me for his poor relationship with his father..He thinks his dad has disappointed him in favor of me every time..I know its true DH would rather spend time with me...But SS has hurt and disappointed DH more times then I can count. I feel SS has twisted and turned every event, into a its her or me situation..And I dont want to play the game..My DH can feel the undeserved hatred for me in his son, and it kills him..SS has a milestone event coming up soon, DH has told me he s not going to attend (I would crawl over broken glass to get to this if it was my kid)I have told DH you HAVE to go, he refuses...But SS will most assuredly feel I wouldnt let DH go...I have bought gifts, he says he may drop them off..but he is of the opinion, you want me, you take my wife...We re a couple...You see it as a lack of character on your dads part...DH sees it as a principle..SS is never there for him, thru sickness, no visits, no Bday, Fathers cards, gifts, etc...Demands money ( or used to I should say)defends Ex who has done nothing but cause stress and chaos in DH and my life..I just want to try to say this kindly, from another perspective,have you really examined what makes your dad act like this...This stuff, I think just doesnt come out of the blue....So much mis communication !!! SS thinks the worst, believes the worst..All my DH wants is peace.....

I don't know, but I think the guy gets a couple points for driving round 5 hours to have coffee with Silver. Then take one away for being a self centered rude butthead for all the calls/computer.

He does care Silver, or he would not have did all the driving...but he indeed behaved poorly once there.

I wonder though (not excusing the behavior) if this is pretty much how he spends all his days with the calling/texting during whatever else he's suppose to be doing. Kinda as if the two have become very dependent on each other (not necessarily heathy dependency) and heaven forbid one or the other functions without the other knowing about it if not actually assisting (the computer look-ups). It's possible neither one of them thought a think about it as it was normal of their usual day to day.

My now deceased mother-in-law could be pretty self centered and thoughless at times. She loved to have us visit, would knock herself out with coffee and homemade refreshment, visit an hour and then pick up her reading book. After 1/4 of a century I never did quit figure this lady out...she just marched to her own drum.

Dotz, our mantra here is we accept what people post. YOUR SS is not Silver. Silver has been there for her dad. If you can not accept that some stepkids are nice people, I question your judgement.

Silvers-- my daughter is going to be writing this same very post one day. Your Sm reminds me so much of my daughter's sm. Not everything but some things like making everything about her and keeping dad from enjoying time with his daughter. I think it is a good thing that you realize your dad holds some of the responsibility for allowing her to consume his time but I agree with kkny, she is a threat to him, she is the instigator and he is afraid. Yes he has you but what will he have if he is alone 2000 miles away?

KKNY, Sigh, Of course some stepkids are nice people I HAVE ONE who is.....Just asking Silver to examine the relationship more closely for some more insight!!!! And what I also failed to mention is my DH loves his son dearly.... AND had been there throughout for HIM....He also loves me....The problem is the age old, why cant the two co exist?????

Dotz, you talk about a SS who is always looking for money and does not accept his SM. None of the applies to Silver. Your situation is not the same.

KK, Silver, as far as I can recall, does not accept her SM....But lets let her speak for herself, OK....She can fight her own battle, so to speak...The common ground here is her and her dad have misunderstandings...So do my DH and his son..She doesnt see eye to eye with SM, neither do SS and me...Money is the least of SS and my problem...It signifies something to him, not to me.....Lets not make this about the other woman and the cash thing, OK?

Wow. Quick refresh:

My parents were married 10 years but divorced when I was 2. Mom was in long-term relationship. Dad had a series of gfs and fiancees and I HATED them all. But hooked my dad up with everyone from my teachers at school to instructors/coaches/friend's moms, etc. I wanted him to get remarried. I want(ed) him to be happy.

My dad met SM when I was 18. I lived with him from pre-teen to end of high school. We've always had a really close, really good relationship. Traveled together, played sports and did really fun stuff all growing up.

But this was right at the end of highschool, I didn't know her, and so I didn't care one way or the other. They casually dated. I went to college. They got married three or so years later, I was maid of honor. Flash forward a few years and her true character breaks loose.

All of a sudden there is a lot of conflict. And it's mostly from her. She has a way of creating drama where there was none, and I'm not the only one to notice it. And dad and me have a harder and harder time.

I could go on and on but basically let's move on 10 years and say that after a 2 year period of estrangement between me and my dad all sorts of heartache we've managed to come to a sort of understanding. I knowtow to his wife when they're around and make her life easy and we will have a nice visit. If she's not happy, believe me, no one is happy.

I understand that some children don't "do" for their parents. I assure you when my dad comes, the red carpet is rolled out. I shop special for his wife, I lend them my car, I pick them up at the airport, etc. I've done this for the past five years even though, in my opinion, my sm has totally taken advantage of me and been completely unreasonable.

I had a suspicion it was him playing both sides for years, and he's admitted he played both sides against the other. Now that I've stopped playing, it all becomes more and more clear.

Here's the thing. He WANTED to see us. I don't doubt the love. But this is their pattern.

when I visit DD alone, I and FDH exchange one phone call a day just to check if everyone is OK and when he visits his kids alone we also exchange one phone call a day. We think anything more than that is rude to everyone else (unless emergency).

dotz I agree that it could as well be that he prefers conversing with SM rather than whatever else and it could be that silvers does not accept SM and they can't co-exist. But it is besides the point, I think all of this has nothing to do with SM. She was not there, dad was. He was impolite to his host sitting on the phone all day no matter who called.

It would be as rude and inconsiderate if he talked to his neighbors or his uncle all day long. Now what can be done about it? Nothing, my dad does crazy inconsiderate stuff too. It is what it is, we stuck with our parents.

Dotz, the "common ground" can cover a lot of stuff. If there are toxic people in th mix -- imho, its a lot different.

I am allowed to post just as you do, so please do not imply I should not with the let silver speak for herself.

PO1 Did you get engaged?? Yesterday he was SO, today FDH LOL...Silver, I sort of feel totally innocent of causing the strife,I feel like I ve rolled out the red carpet to SS, we are in the estrangement, I m done period, UNTIL an event comes up to screw everything up between DH and SS... And it WILL turn out to be my fault if SS is not pleased with the outcome....Question,you feel SM takes advantage of you...How do you think she feels about you? Does she have any affection for you? Curious, if you dont mind answering....

"It's possible neither one of them thought a think about it as it was normal of their usual day to day. "

JustMeToo, that's what I'm wondering too - if Silver's Dad just honestly didn't think much, if anything, about his behavior because it was entirely normal to him. I've got relatives who do something similar; every time they are up it's constant bickering with each other. We've all tried to say something about how uncomfortable this makes everyone else, and it's just brushed off with "Oh, we're fine. We're not upset with each other." Well, you're upsetting the rest of us! But they aren't going to change - so we had to decide if we'd take it or leave it, basically.

Silversword, I'm so sorry your Dad didn't behave well. Maybe the best thing to do is to try to plan ways so that his behavior will not bother you as much. For example, is it possible that what SM really craves is attention and reassurance, and it is manifesting itself when he is with you as picking fights and/or being overly needy? What if your Dad (at your suggestion) were to make quick calls or texts all damned day long? Texts would be great because they can be so short and easy to send "Hi honey - Silversword and I went out to lunch and I was thinking of you because they have your favorite dessert here." "We just got back from the movies and are going to rest for a bit." "Silver told me a funny story about her pet guinea pig; remind me to tell you when I get home." Granted that would be annoying, but maybe less so than constant interruptions at SM's convenience?

If something like that doesn't work, I'd just say something - and then I'd go do something else. "Dad, since you've spent two hours arguing with SM on the phone now I'm going to go to the grocery store. See you in an hour or so when I get back." It's unfair of him to expect you to sit around in your own home and wait for table scraps of his time.

dotz, it was a slip. I am concerned about my anonymity here. yes, we've been engaged for awhile, we don't make a big to do about it. and I refer to him as SO in here rather than FDH for said above reasons, but I guess it slipped. what's the big deal dotz.

justmetoo might be on something here, is it how he normally functions like always on the phone, texting, calling, talking? To SM or to whoever else?

SD, of course much younger than dad in question, is texting all day long when visits us, it does not mean she does not love her dad, it is just how she is. Is he like that all the time?

(*** psst, congrats PO1, sssshhh, we won't tell a soul***)

--"If something like that doesn't work, I'd just say something - and then I'd go do something else. "Dad, since you've spent two hours arguing with SM on the phone now I'm going to go to the grocery store. See you in an hour or so when I get back." It's unfair of him to expect you to sit around in your own home and wait for table scraps of his time."--

Yep, pretty much how I dealt with her sudden 'excuse me, time for me to dismiss you all for a while now' moments. There was a nice mall just a mile down the road with stores I didn't have in my own city so that is exactly what I did. After I would get back, she's put her book down, idle chat a bit about what was happening in her story and than politely ask if I could run her to the store (she didn't drive and had to use a cane to walk for years before finally a walker). With my MIL it really was not 'me', it's how she treated everybody. My SIL (MIL's own daughter) would be just as surprised by her mother's behavior when her family visited.

To be fair to my MIL though, she lost a daughter to cancer when that daughter was just 32. That one left four young children all under nine and that daughter had been MIL's constant buddy. Always just a few miles down the road from MIL, always coming and going several times a day. I don't think my MIL ever totally healed from losing this daughter and I believe also that the 'routine' she goes through when people visited is the same one she had during the in and out pop-ins during her day with the deceased daughter.

No big deal PO, just thought it was happy news, congrats....nothing sinister meant LOL

It's ok Dotz. I understand you don't know the history.

SM has made it clear that she will not go out of her way for anyone. That means when I go to their house, she will eat herself before feeding DD. When there are showers to be had, she goes first.

There is no "red carpet" for me. I'm lucky if I get a clean towel. And, it's not just me she's like this with. It's everyone, including her family. I don't take it personal anymore.

When we are together, me and SM, we get along fine. We even have fun sometimes. She's not a horrible person, she's just incredibly self-absorbed and unapologetic about it. If I can get loose enough that I have absolutely no vested interest in anything that happens, life is smooth. She panics, I find a solution (OMG my toe hurts and I can't take anything you have in the house... ok, I will drive to the pharmacy at 1am)... or OMG this almond milk has 6grams of sugar I can't eat it and I have to eat it RIGHT NOW.... ok, I will drive to the store and get you some that's different. Or sitting at a restaurant and having her take 20 minutes to order and then sending her meal back and then complaining to the manager and then complaining at the table and commenting that whatever is fabulous on your plate sure would make her meal all that much better... and just SHARING it with her because the joy of eating that bite is already ruined so might as well someone get some pleasure out of it.

When I first started telling relatives that SM was selfish and a narcissist and was not very nice to me, everyone thought I was being spoiled. I was in my early 20's. Years go by, and now hardly any of my dad's relatives disagree.

She is just one of those people who think everyone is around for her comfort. And my dad thinks, if you can make things just a little easier on her, then what skin is it off your teeth? And it's true. If I simply bend until she's pampered and comfy (and by that I mean driving her around, spending hours with her mapping out her day trips, being willing to drop what we're doing at a moment's notice if she is tired or hungry or simply bored) then life will be ok.

For her. Everyone else wonders why the heck we're dancing around her needs when she can't be bothered to do anything for anyone else. And by "anything" I don't mean she didn't buy me a fabulous gift for my birthday (because she doesn't buy me anything ever for my birthday/christmas/etc and never has... nor does she buy anything for my DD, her only granddaughter) I mean she wouldn't go out of her way to stop and get a carton of milk on the way home.

SM doesn't feel innocent. She knows, and she's apologized for her horrible actions in the past (which included spreading vicious rumors around our small town about me). She is not a nice person. And I'm not the only one who recognizes it. My dad and SM aren't invited to stay with most of his family as a result. Because she is THAT hard to be around.

She's actually thrown fits because a hostess wouldn't stop doing dishes to go show her where the towels were because she wanted to take a shower RIGHT THEN (and no, she wasn't covered in something gross, etc).

She sleeps in until 10am, and that's fine, but NO ONE can do anything while she is sleeping. No coffee (the smell will wake her), no noise. If you leave the house though, you will be doing something without her, and that's not ok either.

My dad is not a technologically inclined person. He barely knows how to use his phone/internet/etc. He doesn't know how to text although I've shown him he's not interested. He hates the computer.

This is simply a case of ignorance, poor manners and willingness for whatever drama she's playing out to take precedence over anything else that's going on. They could have done the planning that night, when they were together. Instead they are on the phone during the few hours I had with my dad. It wasn't necessary, but that is what they wanted to do.

I didn't sit around twiddling my thumbs. I have a brand new garden I just put in and a lot of projects outside the house. I turned the AC up for him, made sure he was comfortable, and then DH and I went outside and worked. Dad came out a few times but was inside 99% of the time, arguing. Prior to it being warm enough for AC we actually had to close the sliding glass doors because he was SO LOUD and angry/frustrated. It was painful to listen to.

So no, talking on his phone isn't normal... and he had just left her the night before to drive over, and would be returning to her the next day. They had spent two days together already and were looking at the next few weeks on vacation together. He had ONE DAY to spend with me.

One day. From waking up to 4pm. And other than about an hour, he chose to spend it arguing with her about things they could have talked about when they were together at 6pm that night. Or the next day. Or the day after that.

My dad is still an hour and a half away from me (he chose to drive during rush hour, which doubles it). I could see him, except they have other things to do. Well, she does anyway.

And I'm not mad at her. Because before he'd blame her and then I'd be irritated at her instead of him. But he's a big boy. He is choosing this. He could have said: "honey, I love you, and I will see you in a few hours. I'm going to hang out with Silver and Son IL and I will call you when I'm on the road".

But he didn't.

Well I hope she s at least really good looking LOL

LOL dotz, not to shock everyone but my grandma used to say about my SIL "well she must be at least good in bed". My grandma said it how it is LOL

"because she doesn't buy me anything ever for my birthday/christmas/etc and never has... nor does she buy anything for my DD, her only granddaughter)"

WTF! I just noticed it, after that many years???? She buys nothing??? Like nothing nothing????

Well, dad called today. For the first time since he left. Of course, he needed something. So I helped him with it.

Then he said he sure was sorry the trip turned out like it did. And that after that awful night SM is doing just fine and had a lot of fun with her family, etc.

So in other words, it's the same. She throws her attention-grabbing drama fits and he caters to her at the expense of everyone else. Then she gets what she wants and is happy as a bivalve. All others be damned.

I feel like my dad just threw away the past five years of really working on our relationship. One fell swoop.

Because honestly I don't care anymore. I'm so exhausted and fed up and disappointed (well, I guess at least two of those are feelings... I thought I got rid of those!)

Ok, not caring is the wrong term.

I'm over it. I'm past the point of generosity. I've had it up to here.

The thought of her whining/crying/snivviling just infuriates me. GROW A PAIR LADY. I don't know how these women grow up, get married and then just lose all ability to self-regulate. And I'm not mad at her, I'm disgusted. What a pitiful person.

And I've lost so much respect for my dad.

Silver I thought about you this morning --
When I got an emAil from Facebook saying my stepmom wanted to be my 'friend'. Lol I wish my dad would ask me to be a friend. He is Friends with my brother and sister. .. Oh well. Another sm inserting herself.

I dont really recall the deal with myfampg sm and dad but I really cant see how asking someone to be a friend on facebook is inserting herself. I mean, people have sometimes hundreds of friends or people that they barely know except that they went to school with them way back when or met them at some party but a sm asking to be a friend (which should be a nice sign imo) is inserting....?

Thanks myfam. Sorry about your dad. My dad and SM are on FB, and we are friends. Not that it means much.

My SD11 just emailed asking for my full name so we can be friends. I'm pretty sure it's BM just wanting to check up on me.

mom of 4, I agree with you, ASKING to be friends on Facebook is not inserting anything anywhere at all. I would understand showing uninvited somewhere, but how is simply asking is "inserting"?

Facebook at 11? I thought one has to be at least 14? 11? My niece is turning 10, she'll be on Facebook over my brother's dead body. What the heck?

I've only posted a little about my dad and Sm. Basically I have not heard from my dad (who works 15 minutes from me and lives an hour from me) Ina year and a half. He is too busy helping exboyfriend of my youngest halfbrother who now is HIVpositive to actually think about his 5 children he created. He is 'mad' at me because I asked my stepdad to walk me down the aisle at my wedding. Although I told my dad my plans since my sdad raised me -- included him and sm in all events: rehearsal dinner, they both received flowers with the parents and grandma's, Sm was escorted down the aisle with the parents. We did everything to include them except my sdad was with me and did the speech, father daughter dance, ect. My Sm came up to me at the reception and told me that she thought I needed to dance with my dad, I said 'sure where is he!' she said I don't know but you should go find him and tell him you want to dance. (why couldn't he ask ME to dance, afterall I was the bride and I was a bit busy to search down my dad in the smoking area of the patio). Then she tells me close to the end how hurt my dad is that I didn't include him, then goes on to tell me how there are two sides to a story and that I should ask him his side so I could understand why he wasn't around. (I think I know why, the birthdate of his fourth child precedes his divorce with my mom) but who's keeping score on a 25 yr divorce?? Apparently he is.
Then in the video of the ceremony, she wouldn't even look at me coming down the aisle, she kept her back to me the entire time. Then at the reception, she apparently was telling my DH's aunts and uncles (whom they sat with at dinner) how my dad was forced out of our lives and that he Loves his kids blah blah... Not only did they tell me this the next day at breakfast but she was sitting right next to the camera!! Then I hear from friends and co workers how she was introducing herself as the 'black sheep of the family'.
Inserting herself ... Meaning, I already had her as a friend on fb a couple of years ago and I deleted her when she was taking my family pictures from my page, cropping out whomever she didn't want in them and then putting them in her albums on FB. Also, apparently she copied pics from all three of our pics and then printed them, put them in frames at her house (my sister told me this last time she went over). She as met my brother once at my wedding. Never met him before nor has she seen him since ... She is a friend of his on fb. She tells him on ALL of his status updates 'we love you so much! We miss you!' He is kind of weirded out by it but isn't sure what to do other than delete it after a few days...

Sorry to hijack. Had to explain. She puts herself in the middle of our family constantly but my dad doesn't even TRY to have a relationship with us. I have tried many times but he never calls, always says 'I called you and left a message' apparently all of our phones delete his calls and his messages. My sister was 'missing' one night. She was OK in the end but we were all a little freaked by it at the time. So I texted him ' heard from? Just trying to locate her?' he wrote back 'nope let me know if she turns up' and he is in law enforcement. So is my sister. For neighboring towns and I felt like he could have 'called around'. He said he didn't think about that a the time. He is pitiful and his wife just drives me nuts all the time. She threw a tempertrum about my baby shower and bridal shower because SHE wanted to help host. Well we are not close. They have been marred for 10 years, maybe 11. And for most of it, I have not known her. Her own son won't have anything to do with her for the same reasons. What really annoys me is when she will text us and remind us of our father's bday 'don't forget your dad on his bday or fathers day. I know he didn't raise you but still your dad.' well lady! He isn't my dad he walked out on me and never looked back until I was an adult and he didn't have to take care of me. Why dont you remind HIM of MY bday because I think he might have forgotten the date... Since it's been 13 years since he wished me a happy bday and it was 10 yrs before that!!
That's what I mean. Inserting.

There's always a backstory :(

I'm sorry Myfam. And now you're going to be the _________ for not friending her.

I actually put SM on "don't show posts by" status on FB. That worked great, until I didn't see she had an injury and she wanted to know why I never posted anything to her wall. Oops.

Lol silver -- that's a great idea!

wow, that sounds crazy myfam, under such circumstances it does look like not only she is inserting herself but perhaps planning on spying on you or maybe she just wants to print new pictures, nuts

PO1.... I agree about the 11 year old being too young for fb. My ds16 is the only one of my kids who are on it. I was afraid ss would be getting on it being at his bm's this summer but I've been searching and he still isn't. Thank God! My dh would've made him delete it when he got home if he had. Ds11 and ss have been asking.... I keep telling them NOPE! (Mostly because of sperm donor's family having access to ds11 then... NOT gonna happen)

Myfampg... I totally get why you don't like step moms! Wow! You don't have good experiences with them do you....

mom of 3, I am a pretty lenient parent but at 11, NO. Good idea of deleting it if SS gets FB too early. If ex let DD open it, I would delete it, and he would do the same if I allowed DD (unless of course he would not know, ex has no time for FB). No need to get young kids out there. Let kids be kids longer.

My SD11 is on FB only with friends and family. Her picture is not of her, but of an image. There are no public search options and she cannot friend without her mom's permission.

Would I make the same decision? Nope. But if a parent is watching out I think FB can be used responsibly. Much more so than cell phones and sexting. At least on FB a parent can monitor it in real time.

And silver you can get the emails before kid gets home from school. But I too disagree with children having FB. You HAVE to be 14 to get FB. Of course children younger are lying and that's also teaching them, hey no big deal to lie, no one will know...

Momof3 -- I like plenty of stepmom's. I like you ...
I just don't 'like' the two in my life. Now my second stepmom (current stepmom is legal stepmom #3-- although she was girlfriend 53 or 54) stepmom 2 was really young but she was super cool. She liked my mom and she liked to shop and she took me places, again though, dad was never around. Lol it's like a magnet or something.. I attract crazy people... They don't have to be stepmom's- I just attract crazy people in general.

I understand that 100%. I believe I also attract the crazies! LOL!