Discipline a 16 & 19 year old with a baby? Is this a joke?

If your DH is a pig, why are you surprised that his kids are also pigs?

I am also curious to know how long you were on your own... by that, I mean without help from parents or relatives, before you married your DH. You are 21 and have known him 5 years.. he was a middle aged man & you were a teen? You've been dating him for two years, so I must assume you have NEVER lived out on your own, paying for everything... at least not for long. I find it odd to hear a 21 year old that has never been on her own, calling the 19 year old a "moocher". The 16 is a minor & dad is still obligated to support that one.

and to be honest, the baby WILL probably take after the rest in that family if he/she is raised in a pigsty... not always, but more likely.

Sweet Ocarina,

Please sit down somewhere quiet, take a deep breath, and ask yourself: What are you doing there? Really, what are you doing there?

you knew him since you were 16, how did this happen? are you legally married or just calling him a hubby.

both still live at home...where else do they suppose to live at 16 and 19? do you work? already got your education? if not how is it different that he supports 21-year-old or 19-year-old?

They met when he was a 35-year-old father of two (one almost her age) and she was 16 ... have "been together" (married? when?) since he was 38 and she was 19 ... now she's 21, and living with a middle-aged slob and his two teenage children, one of whom is pregnant, and sometimes that girl's boyfriend?

Is there an adult anywhere in this picture?

OP, where are YOUR parents?

You're obviously not happy now. Believe me, you're going to remember these as the easy days when that baby comes.

It doesn't mean you don't love him. But this is not going to end well. It's not even going to get any better. It is going to get worse.

He has a responsibility to be a good father, and if you are his wife, you have a responsibility to help him do that -- not just want his kids out of the house. What was it like for them, I wonder, when their dad started to be "together" with someone about their own age?

If you aren't married, get out of there and give yourself a chance.

Good luck, honey.

I think people misunderstood my question... Right I'll try and clarify it. But first of all, thank you all for your responses and your time. You don't know how much it means to me.

I've been 'living on my own' (without help from parents/family) since I was 16 and juggling almost full time work with full time school. I was one of the rare kids (well in my generation anyways) who understands you have to work you bum off to get what you want and that my single mom was not responsible to pay for me forever. Anyways so, I met him through a friend when I was 17 yes. That's what we were at first, friends. Never in a million year neither of us would have thought it would develop in something romantic. But it did. We are legally married since 4 months. My family is not in the picture because I had to move quite a distance to be with him.

Now by all means I am not saying he should kick them out ou make them moves. I am saying they are moochers (oldest and boyfriend) because we pay everything for them and they do not help (financially... or physically to be honest) in the house. Boyfriend has quite a good stable job and oldest has never worked a day in her life and is on maternity leave at the moment. Since DH and well me in a way (yes I work, I finished my college degree before coming here but I would love to go to University to follow up) pay for all their stuff, well almost 80% of our wages go towards payment of something rent, bills,car etc. And there is very little left for our pleasure at the end of the week (or to save up). I'm saying they are moocher because they could afford to help financially but they do not. Instead they spend the money that boyfriend makes on clothes (designers), restaurants or the zoo (ha ha). Now I'm not telling him yet again he should kick them out but in my opinion they should help financially (if not slightly).

We thought when they had the baby staying here would be a stepping stone for them to get an apartment of their own while we help and support them through the first few months. Now first few months are starting to getting by quite fast but she blatantly says she doesn't want to move. In my far 21 y/o opinion they should then at least help a little.

Now don't get me wrong I like the kids. But I just think they don't want to help themselves and don't want to help me make this house livable. They like living in their mess. I just want this to change (anyways will have to... baby can't grow up in environment like this).

Right and now my question/help seeking was should I step up to being more firm/authoritative when asking them to clean up behind themselves or should I put pressure on DH to talk to them? Because I am happy with him but when this is put into place I just can't see myself living in mess like this. I'm no where a clean freak but I like a clean house (somewhat anyways ha ha).

Thank you all for your time,

Hope this second post helps.

Ocarina

You don't have to explain yourself I don't think, the situation looks pretty clear from where I'm sitting.

You want to know if you should:
-Step up yourself
-Push DH to step up

I think you have to think of a third option because neither of the above will work. You can't discipline them yourself, this will fail for sure. Your DH doesn't see the situation as a problem, trying to coach him into stepping up will not work either. He'll perceive you as nagging. Remember, this man has lived like this for a long time and he wouldn't change it if you weren't in the picture. It's naive to think he'll change for you, and get his kids to change for you. I don't mean this in a nasty way, it just is what it is unfortunately. You're the one that doesn't want to live like this, so this makes it your problem. Of course you want things to get better, and you know that a clean house is much nicer to live in, and that it feels good to look after yourself. And you probably think that if you can make them see that, they'll change. But in reality, small chance of that happening.

The example you give of the jam smeared all over the bench, I'll take that comment at face value and I'm picturing jam all over the bench. That is not even normal for a 10 year old. How can it be so hard to aim for the bread and get it on there, not everywhere else? It just doesn't sound like these people are bothered by their own mess. Living with bugs is not a problem for them!!!! And the new baby will be able to grow up under these living circumstances, lots of babies do. I know you think that they will surely do the right thing by that little baby, but it starts with self respect and since they don't have this, at all, they will not show it to the baby either, believe me.

Your third option could be to remove yourself from this situation; move out. You work, you can pay rent, share accomodation with somebody to keep cost down, anything, but get out. Get your own place. Spend your money on yourself and let DH deal with his family and financial situation. You probably don't want to hear that, but you need to think of yourself sweetie, you really do. I bet your parents would not be happy to know how you live there. Don't you deserve a bit better? Even if yo don't want to split from your DH, you can still get your own place and see him there. And maybe one day, when his kids move out you might want to move back in, but then you'll still be cleaning up after DH because he won't do it. Is that really what you want? You deserve better, and trying to make a nice home with them will not give you what you really want. DOn't you want loving people around you, who invest in you what you invest in them?

Take care, put yourself first. And if you're not sure what to do; try and take a break and go away for awhile by yourself, take a holiday (it doesn't have to be expensive like you could sign up for some house sitting somewhere), anything to get some time away (on your own with phone turned off!!!)and reflect, I think you really need this, and owe this to yourself.

i am not sure why you got married knowing how bad is their life style. dad and his kids and soon grandkids are what they are. you can't change anyone. either accept this life style or move out. there are no other options.

I agree with yabber. There is no way that a SD is going to listen to a SM who is 2-5 years older than she, and your husband is not going to even try to change them. Why should he? He is used to living like that to begin with, and it's not him who is cleaning up after them. Honestly, honey, I don't think anyone is viewing you as the wicked SM so much as they are viewing you as a very mouthy outspoken slave.

I'll be blunt, sweetie - I take marriage vows very seriously but you really need to take yabber's advice, take a step back, and think about this. You said "you have to work you bum off to get what you want". Are you prepared to work your bum off to get what your husband, SD's and your step-grand-child want? Because that is exactly what is going to happen here. Fathers have a duty to provide for and support their children but it honestly sounds like your husband's idea is for you to do way too much of the providing for and supporting of. Your husband can tell you all he wants that he thinks SD21 will be moving out soon, but why on earth would she? She's got free room and board with free maid service; at your expense.

Please take some time to think about this; think about what your life will be like if (when) this situation does not change. You sound like a great, hard-working young lady. Is this what you really wanted out of your life? And please, please make sure that you don't get pregnant at this time.

The set-up :
--"We thought when they had the baby staying here would be a stepping stone for them to get an apartment of their own while we help and support them through the first few months. Now first few months are starting to getting by quite fast but she blatantly says she doesn't want to move."--

Flash forward:
--"Now these 2 are simply moochers who stay here because DH is not abble to put his feet on the ground and make them realise that they have their own lives and need to start getting on with their own lives and start paying for themselves and not stay under daddy's and me (SM) wings forever. We pay for everything for them (DH doesn't want to make them pay)."--

Looks like it was agreed that they would move in and live there at father's expense. Father still is okay with arrangement, but now Ocarina is not.

House was a mess when Ocarina arrived and moved in 8 months ago. Everybody living there and being the slobs they are when Ocarina marries the father 4 months ago. Notice '4 bums' which would indicate father/husband is included in the 'bum' catagory.

Okay, Ocarina, what were you thinking when you signed on for all this? You would change them all and 'fix' everything? And now you find it is not going to change...why do woman always think they can change everything that is not to their liking when they could clearly see all the accepted faults going in?

Ocarina, you're very young, you have your whole life ahead of you, you deserve better than what you signed on for. Fighting with mooching kids (that you knew at the get-go would be there and be mooching)will get you nowhere. Expecting grown kids to suddenly help clean house when it was clear when you walked into the house at the beginning that living in filth was acceptable to all of them plus the father.

Pack your bags and go 'home' for a visit. Spend the time thinking about if you really want this to be your life and whether or not you want to go back. Don't put the blame on husband's children (they are who father agrees to and encourages them to be)...is this really the man you want spend your years with? He's twice your age and his thinking and habits are set, you're not likely to change him and/or his ways at this late date...you're young, you don't have to live like this.

I am honestly suspicious when people say they were on their own at 16 fully supporting themselves. I don't think one can legally lease an apartment at 16, plus aren't 16-year-olds still in high school so how do they support themselves fully, with what type of jobs? What kind of parenst allow their children to be on their own at 16?

Also what kind of friendship develops between 17-year-old girl and 35- year-old man? What do they have in common and what kind of parents allow this type of friendship?

This whole story headed for disaster from the beginning. Everything just sounds wrong...

Thank you all for anwsering and helping me clear my thoughts. It was much much appreciated. Now I know I'm young and you're almost all saying I made a mistake (which I don't think I did but who knows) but I really love that man and believe it or not he really loves me too. He just...I suppose he gave up on trying to get them responsable but that's another story.

Everybody seems to think I should take a step back, take some time or even get my own place for a while. I think this sounds a great idea. Thanks a lot yabber for your post, really cleared my thoughts and made me realise that indeed taking a step back is the best thing to do at the moment. I do think that maybe I was a bit naive in thinking I could "fix" this house. But I've learned my lesson I suppose. I'm not going to give up on my marriage, but some time somewhere else would do both of us good. He will probably realise how much I do in the house if I leave for a while (I honnestly don't think he realises).

By the way finedreams, over in Canada (Quebec), highschool finishes at 16. Then you go on to college for 2 or 3 or 4 years (depending on your program). I would go to work from 5-9 everynight and do two 8 hours shift on saturday/sunday. I was living with a roomate so the cost was manageable. I moved out and my mom was ok with it, you don't have to be. As for the age difference, I understand your apprehension. I do think I am a bit mature for my age and always have liked older men and for me age is simply just a number (and we have a lot in commun you would be surprised ;) ). But I do respect your opinion and you have every right to have it.

Thank you all again for your support and thoughts, I will take all your comment at heart when I go for that long trip back home for a while.

Bless you all

Ocarina

It is not completely unreasonable to consider a 16 year old on their own particularly if they have finished high school. The only thing I didnt pay for was rent from the time I was 15, and even that changed at 17 when I moved out after graduation. My family was quite poor at the time and since I could work, I did work. I knew my parents were having a hard time with bills and so paid my way for everything and chipped in money for the household. thankfully they are no longer in that position and my younger brothers and sister never had to deal with any of that but I managed quite well. I worked two jobs my senior year of highschool and still managed ap courses and a high GPA.

Anyways that was a really long way of saying... it is entirely possible and not necessarily due to bad parents.

I have no problem with age difference at all. It is fine when one person is much older. But I think that friendship/romance between 17 year old girl and almost middle age man who has almost same age children is a recipe for disaster, and that what's happening now...I hope you sort it out very soon. Good luck.

Marriage isn't just about finding someone you love and trying to make it work -- It's about choosing a Life Partner. This is the one other person you choose to be on you team throughout your life. The one person whose life you merge your life with. Whose habits, interests and circumstances also become your own. So there's a lot more to it than simple Love...

Sounds to me like your husband is adding you into his life in a way that's similar to how he added his daughter's boyfriend -- one more person in the house, one more mouth to feed, figuratively and literally. So still HIM and his house and his dependents. You, of course, he loves in a different way and gets to sleep with -- but still, HIM, and his house and his dependents and his old habits. Doesn't sound AT ALL like it's Him-&-Wife as one team and THEIR house and THEIR dependents and THEIR rules.

Sounds to me like he's treating you like one of the kids. The favorite kid no doubt, but still, just another voice in the household. The responsible one. The one who cooks and cleans (Isn't that nice to have!? Good addition, Dad!) But really, just another member of the household whose rights are no greater than the others', and is actually causing a bit of trouble with her expectations of all the others. They were all just fine with a bit of mess, weren't they?

Doesn't solve the problem, certainly...

mom of 4, my DD also worked in high school, many kids do, not a big deal, but I don't consider it "support themselves on their own". No matter how mature people are, on your own with no support at 16 leads to disasters and poor choices. By the way attending college is not the same as "live on my own with no help".

I also have hard time believing that a decent parent would refuse to help 16=year-old child with anything, like nothing? At all? At 16? Completely no support? Why? yes it is bad parenting.

Ocarina made some poor choices and one of them hooking up with middle age man at 17. Seriously now, it does not sound like a mature choice at all. maybe "on your own at 16" was not the best choice. If it was the best choice then why is she having all these problems now? Bad choice, bad consequences. I don't advice anyone to kick their 16-year-olds to fully support themselves.

finedreams, my DH lived on his own with no support at 16. There had been a lot of trouble between his mother and he and so he moved out into a cheap apartment. He had a roommate who I believe may have already graduated high school, which makes one emancipated in our state, but I do know the landlord was aware that he lived there and of his age. (It was/is a small town and he'd known the landlord since he was a child.) DH worked evenings and weekends to pay the rent, lived on ramen noodles, graduated high school and joined the military. I'm not saying whether or not it was a good idea, just that it is sometimes done.

Ocarina, I know my concern with what you have said is not your age, your maturity level or even the age difference. Rather, it is a spouse's responsibility, especially a spouse who has had so much more life experience than you, to help their husband or wife have the best life that they can, and fulfill their dreams. You have said that you'd love to go back to University, you have said that you're exhausted after coming home from work to clean for hours, you have said that there's very little money left for anything fun. I'm hearing that your husband has a young, hard-working wife - but I'm not hearing how your hopes and dreams are coming true, or what your husband is doing to help with them. I'm not saying that he doesn't love you. I'm asking if that's all you get, his love but not his support, will it be enough?

mattie, exactly, it was my point he was on his own at 16 BECAUSE there was a lot of problem with his mother. I never said it is never done, a lot of weird stuff gets done. It doesn't mean we should advertise it on this board as excellent life choice.

I have hard time believing that you will send your SS8 away at 16 to be with no support and no help and happily watching him looking for middle age women for attention and love. teenagers look for love and attention elsewhere when it is not there. and "elsewhere" is usually a very wrong place.

on the other hand 21 is mature enough to make smart choices, I was married, worked during the day and went to University at night. I don't see why Ocarina cannot do that just because she is married. In fact it should be easier than when you are single. I don't think people should put their lives on hold when they are married, yes children make it more difficult, but she has no kids. 19 and 16 are not kids, plus they are not hers.

teenagers look for love and attention elsewhere when it is not there. and "elsewhere" is usually a very wrong place. Indeed. And "elsewhere" can be a very hard place to find one's way back from.

Yes, it is difficult to imagine the circumstances under which we'd be "OK" with SS moving out at 16, and every one I can think of would still involve living with an adult or in a very supervised dormitory.

"on the other hand 21 is mature enough to make smart choices, I was married, worked during the day and went to University at night. I don't see why Ocarina cannot do that just because she is married. In fact it should be easier than when you are single. "

You know, that's a really good point, FD.
When 'the kids' are teens and older, their contributions to the family wellfare should be a net positive. They should help cook, clean, run errands -- in short, help the household run smoothly. So Ocarina should have MORE free time to pursue her education, not LESS, because of the kids.

Which is the better long-term plan -- for Ocarina to spend her time cleaning up SD's jam spills? Or for her to complete her degree and advance her career prospects?

I wonder if kids are messing up the house on purpose because dad brought home a girl of their age. Kids are probably resentful and dad feels guilty so he says nothing to them. I just don't see anything good coming out of this situation.

They all lived there and did whatever they wanted, now someone moves in and wants to change everything, I see how they are unhappy about it. Why are you cleaning after them if you don't want to and why did you move in seeing that it is dirty? You can't move in someone else's home and demand immediate change to your liking, it doesn't work this way.

:)

There seem to be a lot of conversation going on about my age and the fact that I moved out at 16. Now by all means I was NOT advertising it was a good idea it was something I had to do : problems with my mom. And yes you can dissaprove and yes you can find it weird but I don't think this is the point here.

Anyways I didn't move in and try to change everything. Tell me finedreams... you deceide to go and have a bath or a shower... and then you realise there is hair all over the bath/shower. What do you do? Obviously you tell the person who did it to clean it up. Which at first I did ask DH to go and tell to SD because I didn't think it was 'right' for me to go and ask her... but I still wanted my shower and I might be weird I don't know but I do not like to take a shower with a mess of someoneelse's hair at the bottom. And after a while waiting and nothing's happening I just gave in and cleaned it myself because I was sick of waiting for SD to get up her arse and clean it. After all I WAS waiting after that to take my shower. This is a comun example of everyday. I do not clean after themselves because I WANT but because I NEED to. If I want to cook in a pan and the pan is encrusted with food because they can't cook properly and let it burn... I still need to clean that pan because they don't listen to DH when he tells them to go clean it so I can use it... so I end up having to clean it because I NEED to use it.

After a while of living here... I got tired of it. I started going to ask them (I was asking nicely) and at the start it did work. They were actually listening to me. But then they stoped and it was back to square 1. And then this is my problem. I KNOW it is DH's job to tell them... but they don't listen to him and they don't listen to me obviously. I personally think he should dicipline them as in... well if you don't do it there will be consequences (not dicipline as a slap in the wrist as everybody seem to think I'm talking about). But who am I to tell him how to raise his children. Yabber seem to have gotten what I was going on about... should I tell him he should dicipline them or should what? should I just wait and wait and wait for my shower until they decide to listen to him. You know? And these are only few examples. They are slobs yes but I'm not trying to change to house or change them... it's just I cannot live the way they live so we obviously need to meet in the middle somewhere. DH wants a clean house but has given up on them because they are slobs and because they don't listen to him. And I just feel I'm the one cleaning the mess.

Anyways, as I said previously I think I will take some time away from this place... time for me to think.

Again thank you all for your responses. As blaming as they sound they do help... every little bit helps.

Ocarina

PS finedreams I do believe sometimes they are doing it on purpose... I feel very low these times because obviously I feel like I'm a wiked evil step mom or that they think I hate them, which I don't trust me. I would just like them to make a bit more effort so we can all live in peace but I don't know... I moved in because as I said previously I thought I could maybe 'fix' it. I did clean the kitchen top to bottom and was more than HAPPY to do it. I thought I was helping everyone here. Who in hell would say no to a free cleanup of their kitchen? But I just thought they would help me keep it that way. Or at least not make it worst you know.

"Who in hell would say no to a free cleanup of their kitchen?"

Lots of folks.
My mother was a slob, and my sister is a neatnick.
So one day Sis is visiting Mom and decides she's going to clean Mom's kitchen.
Of course, Mom's kitchen needed a good top to bottom cleaning,
but Sis decided it also needed re-organizing, and proceeded to 'fix' Mom's kitchen --
including alphabetizing Mom's spice cabinet!
Mom did thank her.
But she wasn't pleased...

ocarina,

I don't agree , you have the right to tell hubby that you won't live with a 19 year old moocher who is also a slob. 16 yes, 19 no. The age difference is really not the point here, from reading the posts on this board, ages aren't the real deal.

The real deal is that your husband's kids don't respect you, him and if they live as you say themselves. Moving out or taking time for yourself is a great idea because of that alone.

ocarina, I do think you made a mistake but not necessarily because of your age. That may or may not be a mistake of its own, but is an entirely different subject from what you are asking about.

You married and moved into your husbands household without first working out how to handle *dramatically* different ideas of how to keep a house. People divorce over things like this (seriously). The fact that he has adult and nearly-adult children of his own makes this mistake a gazillion times worse. You are trying to negotiate your own household standards with people (his kids) who have no reason to care about your comfort. They donÂt love you, they didnÂt ask you to move in, they donÂt care if you stay, they have no reason to want to change the way they do things in order to accommodate you. These things are hard enough to work out even when all those things I just said *do* exist--between partners who truly love each other and want to work things out. The fact you are so close in age to them may make it worse, but I am your husbandÂs age, and I wouldnÂt expect to be able to walk into that situation and have them listen to me.

You need to work out with your husband what acceptable house rules and standards of cleanliness are. He needs to present those rules to his children, and enforce them. I understand where youÂre coming from and why you have issues with your stepkids, but you donÂt *really* have issues with *them*. You have a disagreement with your husband about housekeeping standards. His kids are doing nothing other than following the standards he enforces (or doesnÂt enforce).

oh, and you need to stop thinking that you are right and they are wrong. I know you didn't say that. But. Who in hell would say no to a free cleanup of their kitchen? But I just thought they would help me keep it that way. Or at least not make it worst you know. very much implies it. (doesn't matter whether or not I or 99% of other people agree with you). It is NOT about right and wrong. It is about what you are comfortable with and what they are comfortable with. You are asking them to adjust to your comfort level. You may also be willing to adjust somewhat to their comfort level (are you?), but as I mentioned above, you have incentive (love their father, want to be married to and live with him) while they do not have similar incentive to adjust to you. (unless their father provides said incentive by making it a condition for living with him, or letting them know it would contribute to his happiness, or whatever would provide said incentive)

I think you need a maid. Or a new husband.

some people are messy, some are too messy, you needed to find it out before you get married. my parents keep cluttered house, they like it this way, who am I to tell them otherwise?