I'm so sorry.

As Princess Diana once said, a marriage is really crowded when there are 3 people in it...
& this girl sounds like she's the third one in your marriage.

I don't have any helpful advice on how you can get things going your way, don't really think there *is* a way to do that;
why would your hubs & his daughter change anything?
They like it like this.

In fact, I'd say you need to get out of that whole mess.

A big girl pulling hair, slapping, whatever, especially a *baby*, & her father enabling her...

You're the mama, you take care of your young.

I wish you the best.

wild_thing, why has your DH not gotten involved with your ss on a father/step-father/son level? it bothers me for your son. it has to hurt him. I've seen first hand how that can hurt the child in the long run. personally, i would never marry someone who doesn't want to have a relationship with my child. seems like your dh has taken that position.

As Princess Diana once said, a marriage is really crowded when there are 3 people in it...
& this girl sounds like she's the third one in your marriage.

That is so true. I didn't really think of it like that. But yeah, I can see that. Sad thing is, it did not use to be that way. We use to be on the same page with one another.

why has your DH not gotten involved with your ss on a father/step-father/son level? it bothers me for your son. it has to hurt him.

He has been with us since my son was 2 years old. I guess my son has always been a bit different than other kids. He has always been happy doing things on his own. We later found out when he was in the first grade, that he is actually very gifted. So that explained a lot. But he kind of always stayed that way, wanting to figure things out on his own etc. The only thing he would "let" any of us do with him for fun was play video games with him, and that did not last long because he would end up beating every game lol. So I guess he and my son never really had much in common. They have a relationship that is okay for them. It works for them. My son doesn't seem to care, he knows that his sd is the one that has been there since he was young. We have done things as a family however, and I guess that also works for the two of them. Just not one on one stuff so much.
But the only reason I brought it up was that it was just backwards for dh to say that I didn't want his kids around when I have bent over backwards to help him and his children, and I have spent so much time trying to teach them even the simplest of things because their mother never did. But not once in that time did I ask dh to take my son out and play ball etc..for one my son isn't really the sporty type, but the thing was, i didn't think i needed to force something onto either one of them.
My son respects his sd to a point. I think at this time, he is disappointed in him. I have to give my son kudos...he will be 16 this fall, but he is beyond his years intellectually, he see's that I am stressed and he is doing what he can to help me. He has been taking me on walks in the evening, he asks me several times throughout the day how I am doing, and he even vacuumed the floor for me this afternoon. Bless his heart.

My dh ended up apologizing for yesterday. Saying that he felt stretched too thin and stressed out. He didn't mean to say some of the things he said.
I say...he should practice what he preaches and not say things he has to be sorry for.
But again, the damage is done. His dd was there to witness the whole thing (my son heard the whole thing from his room too) and what do you think she is taking from the whole situation? She is thinking she has daddy wrapped around her finger and she has successfully put that wedge between us.

I think the two of you need to learn how to argue. If it has to come to a knockdown dragout - and sometimes it does even though it never should - then argue on a fair basis. I don't know all the rules but you both should learn them. One thing I can tell you is it is no fair dragging other issues, i.e. the son, into an argument about the daughter. Comparing them like that and dragging your son down in effort to shut you up simply because he has no better defense is so wrong. Argue/complain about the daughter when the daughter is the subject. Argue/complain about the son when the son is the subject. But never the twain should meet, and you should not defend your son when your husband does that. Make hubby stay on point with the issue and tell him "We are not talking about insert son's name . We're talking about insert daughter's name . If you want to complain about something or someone else, you will have to wait in line." You will unnerve him that way and make him see how silly it is to do that.

that is great argument advice thermometer lol.
I was very angry when he did that, and wasn't sure how the heck to take that at the time. But you are right. we were not talking about my son at that time and it was not fair or right for him to bring my son into it.

It's been a while since I've posted and I've had a lot going on, so I apologize in advance for forgetting some of your background info about yur stepfamily. How old is your SD and what does she pay for with the earnings from her job? Is it a good, fair and realistic match between her earnings and expenses? If she has more than enough money to cover the expenses agreed on and still be able to take some days off, should be no problem. Except that maybe she can slowly start to take on more financial burdens, if she has that much extra money. On the other hand, if no matter how much she works she still doesn't have enough money for all she is expected to pay for plus anything she may want, then that conversely is a losing proposition which gives her no incentive to work more... especially knowing that the more she works/earns the more expenses she will be expected to pay. it's definitely a balance... she should have enough motivation to develop a good work attitude without being either spoiled nor put in an impossible situation.

My feeling would be if it's a more-or-less reasonable balance between her earnigns and expenses, if she wants to take too many days off work, she's just depriving herself of any "extras" she might be able to buy otherwise, and that is her choice to make. She might feel that the time with her friends is more important to her than the new jeans, etc. and that is actually showing good personal values. Of course I'm saying this on the assumption that there aren't any problems with her running out of money and running to Dad to pick up the slack... if that's an issue then that ratio of earnings to expenses needs to be made more tight and Dad as alternate source of extra cash has to be limited to emergencies or rare special expenditures with a real purpose (i.e. a necessary piece of equipment or a meaningful class trip, etc... not new jeans or the latest ipod gadget).

People generally don't learn good habits, strong work ethic and reliability until they see direct effect on them b/c of their own choices. Anything learned by necessity tends to stick, as does as a good system of rewards wherein the harder they work, the more freedom and advantages they can have. No more punishments or arguments needed to make that point. Simply a matter of choice: do you want to work harder for more rewards, or are you content with less? That varies as much among adults as it does among kids, and there's no right or wrong answer to that. Some people are more "rat race" people than others... But regardless the choice, it should be in balance... it's a bad scenario when someone's wants exceed their ability to work and attain them; or when somebody busts their butt all the time to have luxuries that don't even make them happy. The more in balance your husband and you can calibrate SD's earnings/expense ratio to reflect her level of "go-getter" ness, the better. If she's going to want a lot, she should learn she has to work harder for it; if she doesn't want to be a hard worker, she should learn to be content with less. And she should know that if any of that should change, that it is largely on her to either step up her work more or step down her wants more.

I see serenity's point here. My DD is content with basic neccessiies, she buys the cheapest or second hand clothes and wears it until it is ripped, she doesn't have any electronics besides her laptop, she owns no TV or Ipods or any other gadgets, her cell phone is the most basic and old and her plan is the cheapest, she rarelly eats out, she likes to go to museums on saturday which is free in UK and overall she is very good in finding free entertainment, she is managing wihtout heat or very little heat and little electricity, in warm weather she rides a bike everywhere so she doesn't have to pay for transportation, and she is happy to live in a tiny run down place etc. So if she will always be this way, she will never be motivated to work many hours or seek better paid jobs. some people are content with less. But then again if they start relying on other people to pay the bill then it does make a difference.

Hmm, this post hit home for me.
Anytime I ever had a issue with SS or DH supporting him (still) or anything DH would bring up something my DS did years before that I couldn't even remember. It always turned into his kids are so much better than mine, blah, blah, blah. It never got better. He honestly believes his kids are better than anyone elses.

Sorry, I have nothing constructive to say about what happened except take your boy & get on with your life (wish I did, I was a much stronger person back then). It hurts to always be the odd one out and know your SF feels so differently about you than his own. Just a sad situation. I'm sorry for you & your boy. Stay & accept this I promise you'll have loads of resentment about it later.

Sorry to be so negative, but I just can't think of a postive in this situation.

Hugs,
~Cat

Serenity & FD...the job isn't an issue. She likes her job well enough. She has a good enough work ethic. She makes enough money to get the things she wants, and have some left over.
This is the 16 y/o who doesn't call her "friends", who we have been trying to get to do things with said friends. But has only done two things since the start of summer. Each with a different person....she only has two friends that we know of from school.
This girl whose house she was going to is a "friend" she had not seen or talked to in two years, since jr. high. They are both Juniors this year. They don't even go to the same high school.

I don't even know how it went to be honest. Nothing when we picked her up. No word on how it was on the boat etc. Other than the fact that she got a wicked sunburn and is calling in sick to work, that is all I know from the weekend.

Had counseling today, what she came up with is that she tried to sabotage the going to the friends with the "behaviors" before she went. No clue about the behaviors since she has been home. Pissed cuz I called her bluff on lying, and still trying to wrap dad around her finger I guess.

IDK. I have just had it with this girls passive aggressive behavior and manipulation. I have dealt with it for so long, and I am just so burnt out. I have nothing left.

She isn't even doing her one dang chore anymore. I got mad and told dh that if she "did everything around here" and my son does nothing, then I will even it up and she didn't have to do the damn dishes I would do them myself. I was so mad at him when he dragged my son into the argument and she was in the kitchen with us, trying to do the dishes....more like getting an earful of our argument., and that was when I told her to go to her room.

So, she has just been hanging out in her room all day and when she is hungry she comes up and gets something and leaves the dirty dishes down there. Dh told her today to at least bring them upstairs...gee thanks.

Can you live in the same house with someone and not have a relationship with them?

We have two kids together so its not like I can just pack up my son (from previous relationship) and leave. As much as I wish I could at times. I just can't keep doing this yo yo thing with sd.

I think she is bi polar or something.

But dh and I are talking. He is very sorry that he said the things he said, and I guess the counselor gave him a book on family to read, because he is trying to make things "just so" without taking an inventory of what is going on.. Just goes into fix it now mode.
I will give him some leeway since I do know that he has been under a lot of stress (both have) and sd doing her little bit just added fuel to the fire all at the wrong (or is it right? lol) time, and things got bad real quick.

oh she is only 16. i didn't realize it is the same SD with issues that we discussed before. i thought this one is grown up.

this girl has issues that can only be fixed wiht medical help, therapy etc. maybe depressed maybe bi-polar or maybe just troubled teenager.

i frankly do not see much of an issue wiht her not doing chores though. DD always avoided doing chores so do most teengers. her behavior is somewhat typical.

her not haivng friends though is alarming and that's something i would worry about. her wanting to just sit in her room is alarming as well. those are serious issues and could indicate some problems. not wanting to go to work or clean her room or even occassionally lying would not bother me. I dealt wiht it when DD lived at home.

None of these issues exist now, she works, goes to school and keeps her place in a decent shape.

Your SD won't be 16 forever, one day she will grow up. But like i said not having friends and just sitting in her room has to be addressed and evaluated.

FD...I wish it were as simple as normal teenage crap. That I could totally deal with.
I can't explain the manipulation to you so you would get it.
The level of her passive aggression is fine tuned.
All the staying in the room stuff is just recent. She is embarrassed about her sunburn. Yeah, that sounds totally like a teenager.
I guess if her job wants to wait till she is ready to come back then that is their business.
But her maid, I will not be....you should not get to come up and eat a nice home cooked meal if you can not be a part of the family. None of this, I will eat in my room garbage and bring you the dirty dishes when I am done. That is just not going to fly with me.
She isn't doing sh*t and I am fine with that as long as I don't have to be her maid. If she wants to eat in her room long after dinner is done, then don't eat the food I cooked, and clean up after yourself.

I understand, I think she needs medical help, just sounds abnormal.

And i agree she should not be allowed to eat dinners in her room if everyone else eats dinner together. I would not allow that. I would not tolerate that. She should not be eating long after dinner time. If she eats dinner wiht family but then is a hungry for a snack , then it is undestndable, but not eating dinner wiht everyone else is unacceptable!!! It is disrespctful. She needs to be told to follow the rules.

But I guess your DH has to be more firm, which he is not. I can see how frustrating it is for you.

FD I agree. I have been saying everything in this girls behavior is abnormal, but nothing substantial seems to get done about it.

Also agree with the dinner, thing. But she thinks she is being all cutesy by hiding out in her room and not coming up to eat when I have dinner cooked and ready. She waits until at least an hour or so after everyone is done and I have done all the dishes, then she comes up to get her food and takes it back to her room

I find it entirely disrespectful and I told DH that too. He hasn't done anything about it yet.

It is extremely frustrating and It makes me want school to start NOW so she is on a more regimental schedule so she can handle things better and not be trying to make everyone else feel chaos because that is how she feels.

Although my situation is a bit different and I am the only mother in the picture with my sd's, I established rules early on about my kitchen. They eat when we eat, end of story. The only exception to this is if my older sd is at work during the normal dinner time. I use this rule with everyone in the household. Simple fact is I make dinner and clean up, after that the kitchen is closed.

I don't think it is odd at all that your husband wanted to believe his daughter. Although I would love to say my husband is a wonderful intelligent man, he is after all just a man. The sd's normally know what buttons to push with "daddy" to make him give in. It is very common with all families. Especially with a 16yr old girl. She knows what cards to play to make him feel sorry for her, and nothing you do will change that.

I have taken the approach now when I see my girls playing him, to tell him.. This is what they are doing and this is what is going to happen. I leave it at that, it is always amusing when he realizes I was right. It took awhile for him to open his eyes but he's finally starting to understand, and tends to listen to my input a bit more now.

Fd, Its hard to appreciate the dynamics here. For whatever reason, WT has made it clear she dislikes her SD. That may be justified, but I can understand SD not wanting to eat with her then. She should be told she has to bring her plate back to kitchen etc.

Sd here doesn't eat with anyone. She eats in her room alone and doens't contact friends. Not because WT has made it clear that she doesn't like Sd and SD percieves this.
Heck i wouldn't like my Sd if she physically and mentally abused my baby either!
I think WT has had the patience of an ANGEL to give this girl and her husband so many chances.
Me, if i saw her slapping the baby in the face, i would have booted her BUTT out of my house so fast, no second chances, and if daddy didn't like it, he would gone as well.
There is NO excuse for doing that.
This girl needs serious evaluation and to be on meds. And daddy is in denial.

DD never ate dinner in her room (as messy as she was she did everything else there but not eating dinners!), she always ate dinner with me at the table(and breakfasts on the weekend), there were only two of us. And I know at X's house she would not eat in her room either, they all eat together, I visit X's house often when i visit my hometown, and see a routine. The household is run the same way as mine. They wouldn't tolerate that either. I don't think it is normal to eat dinner in your bedroom but again if the reason is her being disliked or overall tension and negatitivity during dinner then I understand. There has to be a reason to eat separatelly.

Now if she really beats baby up and slaps on the face why isn't dad taking her to a psychiatrist? It seems strange to me. did anyone see her doing that? I keep hearing she is in therapy, therapist usually refers kids for evaluation if a child is that troubled as to beat babies up. I agree if she trully is violent she possibly needs to be on meds, but she is not, she was never diagnosed, why?

organic, SD is in therapy, if a child is troubled, depressed etc then they recommned further actions. I wonder if she is that troubled, why her therapist does not see it. they are trained to see it.

Wildthing has posted that her SD had friends, but wouldn't make effort to see them outside of school. I do not think that is unusual, some people just do not like prolonged social interaction and for introverts, school is enough. Also, WT posted that SD did go to see friends one weekend, the post was not too clear, but WT had issues with that also for reasons not very clear to me. And again, if the situation at home is bad enough that SD will not eat with them, I think it is very clear why she wouldnt bring friends home.

I do not understand the slapping the baby thing, it wasnt very clear every time I've read WT post about it, but what I did get from it was that one of the children told WT that the SD used to do it when this child was a baby? Again, it wasnt clear and it left me with the impression that this child was older now and how would they remember that?

And, I agree with FD, I would think a professional would recommend further eval etc.

As most as I can tell, this situation is just obviously toxic to anyone involved. It is not surprising to me that this SD would eat alone, not bring friends over etc. In fact, I think in this type of situation SD would veer more to the unhealthy side if she did. What she is doing (for whatever reason, as kkny noted dynamics are unclear) is self preservation mode, imo.

Don't ask me why she hasn't had a psych eval. They didn't give one to my ss until things got real bad with him either. He tried strangling his sister, physically attacked my oldest son when he could, and accused us of child abuse, where CPS was called and the lady who interviewed us actually lost her job because of the way she attacked me personally and told me that I had no business saying anything as it pertained to the skids.
They actually wanted to put him in a group home, but insurance would not cover it, and then his mom took him back.

Clarifying, SD is abusive to the baby, ie slapping him in the face, pinching him and pulling his hair. My 6 year old has seen her do these things. She has done and does still on occasion do that to the 6 year old. But not as often because she is old enough to speak up and say something.
It has been brought up to her therapist, and I really don't have a clue what the deal is with that situation. All I know is it was brought up.

It is toxic here. Not because of me. I have done all I can to help my sd (and her brother for that matter). I have just reached the end of my rope. No knots to tie here.

I have said it before and I will repeat it for those who are stubborn and can not see past their own issues. I like my sd and care about her, but not her behavior. She is a very troubled girl and she does need serious professional help.

On the whole eating issue. It isn't me. I have cooked dinner for them for years and we all eat together and have dinner conversation. It is the one place where we all get together and eat and talk. She hasn't participated in quite some time (most of the summer). She is eating upstairs now, but she waits till everyone is done eating and then she comes up to eat. This is all by her choice. Her choosing. I know it is the easiest thing to just blame me and say I am the reason she won't eat dinner with us. Whatever. I know what happens in my own home. It isn't anything that we are not used to. We had to go through it with her brother, so it should come as no shock to us that we now have to deal with this behavior with her. I am also used to being the target for all the behaviors. It is pretty typical for attachment issues.

Then why isn't her father getting her the serious professional help?

This is like expecting a kid with learning disabilities to get straight A's in a mainstream school.

Wildthing, I am not saying you are the toxic element. But the situation is toxic rather. It is not hard to believe that anyone in your SDs situation would not want to eat with the family considering.

And ftr, Ive been there and done that (and have talked with many other stepkids who have had the same issue) with younger siblings (who are just as manipulative as stepkids) who thought getting Mommy's approval was in making stuff up. Im not saying that this is what your children are doing, but it is a possibility.

Nivea, we are well aware of our situation.
She is seeing a professional. She is the one not working. She is the one not listening to the help she is being offered and given.
Eating with the family a choice she is making, because it is the one place we all come together each day, as a family. She doesn't want to be a part of it. She doesn't. Get it?
We do want her there. But she is resisting. First she didn't eat at all with us, now she will come up but it is after we are all done eating. She is aware of when dinner is done etc. This is something she is doing, not me and not the rest of the family.
She wants attention but is looking for negative attention, and it is her dad and my own goal to not give in to her negative attention seeking behavior. Do you understand??
She wants a big deal made out of it. It isn't. She knows when dinner is, and she is a part of this family and should eat with us. She has been told in simple, clear terms. But she wants the fireworks.

She is escalating because we are not engaging in her negative behaviors any longer. She is upping the ante so to speak.

No, the 6 year old is not lying. When confronted with hitting her sister, and her baby brother she has been honest about it. Plus, the babies behavior is suggestive of that kind of abuse. Babies do not just start hitting other people and themselves when mad, out of the blue. That is a learned behavior.

"Clarifying, SD is abusive to the baby, ie slapping him in the face, pinching him and pulling his hair. My 6 year old has seen her do these things. She has done and does still on occasion do that to the 6 year old. But not as often because she is old enough to speak up and say something."

so these are things that 6-year-old observes? or things any adult observed?
what i do not understand is how is she physically abusing babies and nothing gets done. such a big commotion is raised over minor things like her sleeping late or not cleaning her room or bike stolen or not eating dinner or other typical teenage crap, yet physical abuse is not dealt with and is tolerated. pulling babies hair up, pinching him and slapping him????? yet nothing gets done, i have hard time understanding it.

how could it be tolerated?

Holy craP this is getting old...I swear some people do not know how to read.

FD...she is getting professional help already...what more do you think we should be doing? Because that is what it really boils down to here right? How as a SM, I am so wrong, and my step child is the victim.
So old.