Dear Mom,

Hugs,

1. What did she mean by after beggining of year -- school year -- calendar year?

2. Who is going to pay for transportation?

3. Does Custody agreement address parent moving

1. she meant the beginning of the calendar year. She should be finishing her school thing in october. She is going to one of those trade schools that fast track the training.
2. she apparently mentioned something about meeting half way...
3. no it doesnt specifically address that. The divorce papers are pretty standardish in there reading. Technically acording to the divorce decree she is the residential parent with father having liberal visitation not limited to eow and one night a week. The have shared legal custody of the kids and it specifically spells out not able to make major decisions without consent of other parent if agreement cant be reached a third party has to be used.

Although if anyone doesnt remember we have had the kids the majority of the time. Right now they are doing every other week with each parent... but with the exception of the last two with her, most of her week's nights they are still with us because she has school, needs to study, has this to do, or that to do. And, up until DH lost his job we were paying child support deducted from his check ... but he is employed again so I am sure that will kick back in any time now.

Either scenerio does suck! One parent gets the kids for the school year and does all the hard work while the other gets all the fun stuff like holidays and summer, but still a small portion of the year!

Can I tell you how much I HATE it when a divorced parent decides they should move out of state. I think it is so selfish to do to the child.

Can DH get the custody agreement modified to show his actual visitation and then try to fight bm moving out of state?

BM sounds so much like my skids bm(well except your skids bm is in school---mine is just popping out babies instead). She also moved to follow her man.....nevermind what it has done to her kids.

Trust me mom2... I feel the same way about a parent moving out of state. To me there is just no reason good enough to do that to your children. There have been plenty of times that DH and I have talked about moving out of the city ... out of the state. But, everytime, that conversation ends with we couldnt do that until the kids are grown because that wouldnt be fair to them. But, she has the gaul to want to do this. After everything she has put us and the kids through... she is not done yet. This may sound terrible... but part of me hopes that she is just wanting a way out so she doesnt feel guilty... at least we would be done with this nonsense and the kids could have some security... but it is scary as hell to think we could be in for a battle for everything that is important to DH and I... I mean... I dont want to lose my kids because of some judges whim of what he sees... based upon what we can prove... I dont want the kids to lose their life all over again... we are just getting to a somewhat stable existance.. no drama... they see both of their parents ... they have a root.

so what should we do? should we consult a lawyer now just in case or would that risk starting a battle that might now even be necessary.. shoudl we go hard core or should we just sit back and see what happens? I am just afraid that this isnt something we should wait and see on.. this is everything..

Well how hard you fight depends on how hard you think she will fight. Do you think that she will just leave the kids with you without a fight? Most custody agreements state that one parent can not move the children out of state without consent from the other parent.

I had a friend that went through one heck of a court battle to take her kids out of state....and she was battling a guy who was way behind in child support (but was working-just not paying!) and did not always even exercise his visitation!

I also had a relative that was being abused by her hubby and got on a plane one day with her kids to fly to move in with family in another state. Her hubby found out what she was doing and had her arrested for kidnapping! She had one heck of a court battle after that.

Yikes.

I don't know. If I were in your shoes I would consult an attorney now. Not that I think there is anything you can do now, but at least you can get an idea of where hubby would stand legally and you can start getting your ducks in a row.

DH's parenting plan says that the parent proposing to move has to give 60 days relocation notice via certified mail to the other parent. If the other parent disagrees with the move, it says it can be a grounds for a change in custody, and that a motion to modify would have to be filed.

How old are your SKs? A lot depends on their age and what they want to do.

My friend used to live here in my city and she had a young daughter w/her ex; BD lived in a large city in Texas. He would fly to see his DD in OUR city on most holidays and on long weekends/vacations, he would fly with her back to his home in Texas. This was their court arrangement. (I always did think it was kind of crappy for my friend b/c the dad got every holiday, every long weekend, every school break, etc.)

Well, my friend got married and wanted to move to Phoenix w/her new husband. Even though, BD didn't live in the current city, and a move to Phoenix wouldn't really change anything other than him having to fly THERE instead of to our city to get and see his DD....he still fought her! It was a 5 month process to get permission via the courts for my friend and her new husband to move. They did get it, though.

As much as I hate the expense of dealing with lawyers, I do agree with LH, for dh to consult one to get an idea of his options.

While kidnapping charges might be brought in some jurisdictions, where I live the more likely charge is custodial interference, which is one step above a traffic ticket (if that). So if one parent doesnt want to obey the law, it can get frustrating.

"While kidnapping charges might be brought in some jurisdictions, where I live the more likely charge is custodial interference, which is one step above a traffic ticket (if that). So if one parent doesnt want to obey the law, it can get frustrating."

I think if one parent moved with the children out of state, when there is a parenting plan giving the other parent set days for custody/visitation, this would constitute kidnapping. Moving is a pretty serious thing.

It would be one thing if someone just denied a weekend visit or something; in that case, yes, KK is right, it would be a slap on the wrist, if that; but to relocate out of state with the children, in clear violation of an order, would be very serious.

An example of something not being a big deal---and it being very frustrating for the other parent is this. BM and her DH want to take a trip to Florida in August. The longest stretch of time BM has w/SS is 5 days b/c neither she nor DH excercised their 2 week stretches this summer. By the time DH decided to go by the book regarding parenting plan, it was well past the deadline to select the 2 week increments.

Anyway, BM told DH she needs SS an extra four days so that they can go to FL for a full week + 2 days of driving time--meaning she wants SS for a 9 day stretch. DH said fine, but then you give me IN WRITING 4 days for myself when you get back---meaning HE would get a 9 day stretch.

BM said NO. UGH. She told DH she consulted her attorney--and she actually SAID this--she told DH her attorney said to go ahead and take the extra long trip b/c even if DH calls the police, there is nothing they will do over a matter of 4 days.

ARGHHH. So what is the point of the parenting plan then?
It is really meant for the BIG picture. For a one time violation, nothing will really happen. Now, if a parent continually violates the order or withholds visits/custody from the other parent, THEN the other parent might have a leg to stand on in court. But even so, he or she would have to shell out money to file a motion to modify in court.

Bottom line--the courts are going to look at pattern and history.

BUT IMO relocating with the children OUT OF STATE is an entirely different ballgame!

LH, don't get me wrong, I think this is serious. The problem is whether the courts in OPs jurisdiction think it is serious -- which is one reason a local attorney should be consulted. No matter how bad things are, it is always better to know your options going in. If the attorney says the court will allow a mother with primary custody who says she is moving to get a job, then better to know it and negotatiate from there.

Your DH should consult with a lawyer. You haven't provided enough information for me to understand the situation. In the end, BM may be able to move with the children, but its worth contesting. If she is allowed to move with the children, unless both parties agree to an all school year for one parent and all holidays and summer vacation for the other visitation schedule, the visitation schedule will be different from that. In Texas (although Texas wouldn't be the home state during the contest, but to give you an idea), DH would likely get one weekend per month (which can be expensive and so not exercised), spring break, 6 weeks during the summer, alternating holidays, Father's day, and the child's birthday. I find this to be fairly similar to other states as well. Good luck!

I don't remember who they were but some people here said that the other parent moved out of state with the kids and didn't need any permission. ashley? I think there were more people here saying it. I wouldn't think it is possible but apparently people do it. maybe when only one parent has custody?

i also know some situations when dad NEVER saw his kids and had nothing to do with them, yet he fought against them moving to a better place. I think it is pretty selfish.

"maybe when only one parent has custody"

I think it is when one parent has a sole conservatorship. In my case, I could move anywhere I wanted without getting *permission* from BD. That is because I have sole physical and legal custody. BUT I do have to always provide him with my address and contact information via certified mail.

During that time when I and DD lived far from X, my X had all hoildays and all school breaks and entire summer from the day school was over until it was time to go back to school(not just 6 weeks), also times in between, but we did nothing through courts, we just negotiated between themselves. Overall DD's dad saw/sees her more than some other dads who live next door and has better relationship with her than some custodial dads. LOL

And sometimes decisions and reasons to move are complicated, it isn't always to hurt the children or the exspouse. Plus with the economy now in my state everyone is trying to get out. People often go where better jobs are.

FD, I think Ashley said that for whatever reason, her DH allowed X to move, not that he didnt have right to. Yes, finding job can be tough, but I dont remember where OP is from and apparenlty the mom is studying to be LPN, which I think would have a lot of jobs.

we live in florida... there just is no way that there arent jobs for an lpn here in florida or in our city. I mean we have five major hospitals in our city not to mention everything in between. Her reasoning is that she could find better pay as an lpn there... but like I told DH the cost of living is also higher out there. Like I said, when it comes down to it ... it really has little to do with a job and more to do with she just wants to move to texas. That has always been her thing. She was born in texas and they moved when she was still a baby but she sports the longhorns gear (even though she doesnt like or watch football) and tells anyone who asks she is from texas. Like I said, it is just her thing.

While I understand that it could be workable in some situations. We just arent willing to give in to that much time away in a completely other state. As it is right now, she only really sees them every other week for about three or four nights at the most. Because even though she will say things like I can't possibly go without seeing my babies for 7 days .... there is always something more important for her to do. The only time she calls them is when something is going wrong in her life then she calls her babies. It is so ridiculous. You hear them on the phone are you okay mom...aww poor mom... blah blah blah. She has even stopped doing really anything for their birthday. She just comes to the party that I throw with some of her friends.... half the time her and her friends dont even bring a present for the kids for their birthdays. I just dont understand how she would even think about taking them out of state. She barely spends time with them now... is moving to a different state going to make her suddenly step up more? I highly doubt it. It is hard enough getting them back on track after being with her for a few days... being that far away ... I have huge concerns.

momof4, under those circumstances, BM will probably have a difficult time getting permission to move out of state with the kids. What legal custody arrangement is in place? One route may be to modify custody so that DH has physical custody and/or sole right to determine the residence of the kids, which will nip BM's idea in the bud early. And to prevent future problems, DH can make sure that the order is a conditional one with respect to visitation, i.e., it can provide for specific visitation if BM lives nearby and different but specified visitation if mom moves out of state. That way BM will then be able to move, but without the kids.

the legal custody is the original divorce decree that states she is the residential parent and they have shared legal custody. Father has liberal visitation that is not limited to eow and one night a week. But, as most of you know that has not been the case ... well pretty much ever.

I bet someone told BM she can get more CS in another state... tell her if she moves with the kids hubby will quit his job and not get another until she returns

"Father has liberal visitation that is not limited to eow and one night a week"

I do not understand the purpose of a plan that is written like that. So basically your DH is at BM's mercy to see his kids? I don't get it. My DH's plan (and I thought this was standard, I could be wrong?) spells out the days and even the times specifically. They have joint physical and legal custody, with DH being the residential parent. DH gets his son from Wed. at noon until Fri. at noon and EOW. This BM has him from Mon. at noon until Wed. at noon and EOW. This amounts to the 5-5-2-2 split.

Liberal visiation just seems like it is set up for the non-custodial parent to not see their kids as often as they would like, save for the few cases where couples really do get along and work together for the good of the kids.

the only things is spells out are things like holidays and birthdays. It does say that she has to have existing plans or something like that for her to deny visitation but that was never really a big deal with the exception of last year with all of her nonsense. The whole thing is really vague .... the entire divorce decree. It was really wham bam done... he was stupid he trusted what the lawyer said who bm said was their lawyer but really was her lawyer. He really should have paid more attention and never agreed to it. He was just so ready to be done with her that he rushed through it. He knew then he was the primary caretaker of the kids. He should have fought for that from the beginning but what's done is done... now we just have to figure out what to do now.

momof4, why hasn't your DH sought to modify the custody arrangement if BM is not in fact the residential parent as was intended? That's the answer to this problem. I would get started ASAP as it will take some time. The way it is written, and with no provision requiring permission to move (the joint legal custody wont do it), BM will be able to move with the kids without fear of repercussion and force your DH to pursue the issue in Texas, which is probably what she wants. CS in Texas is generous (not computeded proportionally to both parent's incomes). Contact a good lawyer ASAP.

well according to the what is says about legal custody she cant make any major decisions about the kids with his consent or they have to go to a third party. So, it would seem like she cant just uproot the kids to a different state without that happening but if that is not the case then I am even more concerned.

joint legal custody parenting decisions does not ordinarily include residence of the child, which is why one parent is specifically and separately designated as the sole parent with the right to determine the children's place residence. i would not rely on that provision to help your DH here.

My agreement says joint legal, but primary residence is mine, and subject to limitations on my moving (as long as X did not move first). Everyone is different, which is why momof4's DH needs to talk to attorney.

kkny, you missed the part where the OP said her DH's agreement does not have a provision regarding moving. what I said about joint legal custody is legal fact -- i would know. without a separate clause as you have, it won't usually prevent moving out of state.

Yes I did, you're right.

I always advise friends to have a limitation of move clause in their agreements -- its just not fair. Mine allows me to move anywhere in the county.

God, I am so frustrated right now. I have been on the phone all morning to afternoon trying to find out what to do about our current situation. Lawyers are astronoical. Just to begin to think about affording a lawyer right now we would be looking at selling off half our crap. And, apparently legal aid does not help non custodial parents. This is so frustrating. I am not even sure what to do. I dont know we have to do some major budget crunching or consider just representing himself. But, that is really risky. This is just so crazy.

momof4, here's what I'd suggest...but first, what state are you in btw? Contact legal aid again and any legal clinics in your area that can refer you to a law firm that would consider taking your case on a pro bono basis. I am not a full-time family law practitioner but I handle several family law cases per year pro bono that are either referred to the firm by an outside legal organization or for a family or friend that I convince the firm to let me work on. Do you or your husband or a friend know any attorneys? The legal market is horrible right now and I suspect you could find a good underutilized attorney willing to take DH's case pro bono quite easily. Good luck. If you are in a state that I have connections, I will try to put you in touch with someone.

Is there a law school near you? Possibly they have a legal clinic (usually law students under the supervision of an attorney). I assume dh has a copy of his decree. Possibly they can help him file a motion to change custody (to at least 50/50_) an deal with moving problem.

I am so far removed from law school that I forgot about that, but that is also a very good suggestion kkny. A firm would be a better bet however as the law schools have a very low income-level cut off and will only take teach-worthy cases. Attorneys at firms will take cases without a strict income level cut off and cases that are fairly routine.

Where I live the big firms are actually giving the 09 grads an option to take a year in publci service with a stipend, so there are actually more clinic attorneys. Its actually the tier 3 law school clinics that will help with matrimonail wokr.

OP, also call the courthouse -- I assume you live in or near the county with the original order. Sometimes there are lawyers or clerks that help people with paperwork. My opinion -- it is critical that DH file soon. Do not wait for mom to just up and leave. The last thing you want hapening is for her to move to Texas and assert that your dh agreed to it

those are great suggestions thanks.... and we live in FL