Shannon -- "KKNY, you're right. Maybe this is a generational gap thing. Because now, in this younger generation we are not marrying for status and money and being selfish and greedy. We are creating actual relationships based on love and trust and caring. We have degrees, we make as much or more than our husbands." I have to admit, I probably thought the same when I was in my 30s, 40s.

Shannon - "Here's the thing. KKNY's husband dumped her for an uneducated yet beautiful bimbo" - not entirely true, and I certainly don't assume for all. Sometimes the shoe fits, sometimes SM needs Dads money. Not all.

Actually KK, I posted both of those, not Shannon.

Sorry Silver/Shannon

Silver - I was trying to lighten the mood. I KNOW KK started the egg toss and that's what I said in the post:

"...And to KK - often you're condescending and not the nicest person. I have seen you be a real pill to me and others and it becomes old. It would be nice if you didn't say anything sometimes. It's not because you aren't entitled to an opinion but it's because some of your comments serve only to be antagonistic and mean-spirited. Maybe you don't even realize the way you sound. It's some of those things that elicited the egg toss at you on this thread yesterday."

I don't think KK is a terrible person at all and she has made some great observations and insights. In her darker moments she sometimes, not always but more often, cherry picks parts of statements and ignores the rest of the post. I believe she does this deliberately to change the connotation of what the person honestly said or meant. She is guilty of doing that to my posts. Her motivation behind this???? We all know that whenever this happens it starts a pizzing match of BM's vs SM's. Nobody likes having words put into their mouth nor do they like having what they say manipulated to the point they look like a shrew; and this is what usually happens with those cherry picked statements. It makes people so angry that they can longer have a calm debate.

Again, I was just trying to lighten the mood and perhaps point out what I felt was the obvious.

Sorry Gerina. I wasn't trying to be snappy, but I am on edge and it probably came out.

I'm a BM and a SM and I don't like generalizations about either. I think I'm doing a pretty good job at both, and I agree, it's much harder to be a SM than a BM. Being a BM comes naturally. I really have to work at my SM abilities. And having a SM myself makes it all the more complicated.

And, being remarried doesn't help in the complication of family issues either. Honestly, I'm surprised I'm as sane as I am, then I look around and I really have very few SM/Second wife issues compared to a lot of you. Thank goodness, because I don't know how y'all do it. The stress must be intense.

*mood lightening*

thank you :)

Silver,

You role as BM, SM and SC must come with mixed blessings. I'm sure being a SC helped you a lot when it came to being a SM yourself - the do's and don'ts. Additionally, as a SM you got to see things through the eyes of your SM and maybe you understood why she behaved as she had. There's always the perception one has of another and then there's the reality once you step into that person's shoes. I can remember a tough boss that I had in my 20's. I liked her but I also thought that she was over the top and persnickety. It was not until I had her position that I truly appreciated and embraced those parts of her - I learned a lot trading places.

of course not everyone married for money. But when women start saying that new husbands owe them and have to pay for their kids etc then questions come to mind...

"of course not everyone married for money. But when women start saying that new husbands owe them and have to pay for their kids etc then questions come to mind..."

Ironically the same thing ran through my mind when I read that A BM had the nerve to volunteer an EX's money without so much as a phone call. Either that or she's trying to make her EX miserable by attempting to control his finances.

Doodle, I think that the only way to deal with this is to calmly step away from the spoons and leave the eggs where ever they may they lie...lol

PS: Can someone please call the staff at "Gardenweb" regarding making a "BM forum" or a "biomom parenting group", because I think that would help with the "Eggtossing". Perhaps we could move it all over to the new board.:) I come here for support and help and to see how other STEP-PARENTS are doing, what I can do differently to make life better, what I am doing right, what I am doing wrong, and how to improve things for DH, me, bio and step kids. :D

"Nothinings eating me up -- but reading the onesideness, selfishness and condescion of some SMs here -- does make me want to be less fair to X."

Statements like this drive me nuts. It's just funny that ironically alot of the SM's think BM's are onesided, selfish and condensending. Taking disdain for the NEW wife out on the EX happens more than people here would like to admit. I totally feel like the over stepping BM was looking at the situation like the more money she accounted for the less there would be for the SM and her kids to have. She wasn't really trying to be a good parent it just so happens she could make it look like that was her motive. If she was trully just being a concerned parent she would of spoken with the childs father...bottom line. Instead she tried to send the message that she was still in control and was calling the shots sending a clear message to the Ex and his wife that she was not going to go away just becasue the daughter is now an adult. The BM is still trying to use her kids to control.

The bottomline point point is what the EX and NEW wife do with their finances is no ones business as long as the court order has been met and if the "kid" is 29 the damn order has been met! There isn't even a teeny bit of a case to be had in this specific situatiton yet we keep going round and round the mulberry bush. It's aggravating.

Doodle -- I said want to, not would.

Which "overstepping BM" are you talking about? The one who wanted money for her kid's downpayment - what in the world makes you think that was generated by any desire that there be less money for SM and her kids? Even the OP didn't suspect that, she just thought the mom was a meddler and that she needed the money for her kids college.

Of course the Exs fiances are relevant -- unless you want to take the position that dad shouldnt do anyting "extra" for his kids.

"what in the world makes you think that was generated by any desire that there be less money for SM and her kids?"

If the OP THOUGHT that she wouldn't dare say it hher for fear of been ripped apart.

I said that because the outlandish way the BM handled the situation calls for an outlandish motive. And releveant or not it is none of the BM's Ddamned business. If the daughter wanted help SHE would of came to dad. BM was out of line. There is no way around it. She is controlling and ten bucks says that was part of the reason her marriage failed.

Doodle, you and I dont know the history. The OP may not even know it all. The Dad obviously has a fair amount of money, and may have indicted in the past that he would help with his own D's house. We don't know why the first marriage ended. But yes, when all else fails, blame it all on mom. I doubt OP was worried about getting critized, as she herelf indicated that her DH was paying for her kids college.

"DH was paying for her kids college."

Keep reminding us less we forget KKNY. What a BASTAR* for helping out with his step children. May I remind you Layla doesn't get everything brand new since I help pay for her step sisters things...it's a two wqay street. In a family thats how it works. All kids do not ALWAYS get what they want. Thats true in an all BIO situation.

It still doesn't excuse the fact that BM is a pushy twat sticking her divorced nose in places it does not belong and I would have serious words with her if I was that DH. had she gone about it differently it wouldn't of been such a big deal. It was the control freak route which she took that rubbed everyone the wrong way.

Doodle, every family is different. Yours, OPs, mine.

We don't know if the mom had gone about differently it wouldn't have been a big deal. Dad may have said, no help with house, don't have money. And my guess is OP can call up the mom if she wants. Of course, OP has already said she feel quilty, so she may not, but anyone can pick up a phone. But if your advice to OP is call up mom and chew her out, you should say that. Dont know how much good that will do.

I never said dad was a (your word) for paying for the stepkids college -- what I have said was that should be paid for by the kids bio parents. If you want to provide for your steps (who apparently came into your life at an earlier age than OP's kids came into her DHs), that is your priviledge.

"that is your priviledge"

Oh I see. So it's a priveledge if a step parent wants to pay for a step childs needs but if a bio parent chooses to help pay for a step childs need then it's unfairly taking away from the bio children.

Your views are so warped there is just absolutely no fairness in anything you say KKNY. If it isn't the first wife and her kids you just don't care. That's the facts. Good thing I don't take your attitude or the poor girls would be screwed.

kkny, you finally "got it", that which most people are really complaining about including the OP.
"We don't know if the mom had gone about differently it wouldn't have been a big deal." Exactly!!!
She should not have told the daughter what her dad will do. She should have discussed it with the dad first.

eandhl, from the way the OP spoke, that DH may complain, but would give in eventually, my guess is the mom may have made a deliberate decision as to how to go. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

There's a very clear line here. And in the end, we'll all have to agree to disagree.
But kkny, you cannot defend a human being, regardless of what title she holds , the fact remains is the mother decided on something that was not her decision to make. Not her cash to do with. She is in the wrong . completely. Dont use the sd or caring for her as an excuse. Bottom line. Not her decision to make.
There a many people in alot of our situations, whether it be bm or sm or sf or bf or gf or even MIL, , that make decisions that are NOT theirs to make. THose people, regardless of title, are WRONG. And if you defend that, sorry , imo, that is very warped. That's crossing the line and you have complain alot in the past that sm cross the line and yet you are defending a bm on the previous post when she is obviously crossing the line. Please dont' use the kids as an ends to the meaning.

Well, like I said, we'll just have to agree to diasgree on this one. So what is your advice to OP???

Ima said: "If mom cheats, she is still mom... up on her pedestal because she gave birth... even if she's screwing every guy in town... even if she chooses to leave her kids to be with TOM. SHE IS STILL MOM darn it"

But you forgot to add in there that dad's new SO HAS to be the reason for the divorce even if dad's new SO came along 2 years after the divorce was final AND after mom re-married and got pregnant by TOM.

"But you forgot to add in there that dad's new SO HAS to be the reason for the divorce even if dad's new SO came along 2 years after the divorce was final AND after mom re-married and got pregnant by TOM."

Yep. That too. I've been accused of it. Not just by crazy BM but by crazy BM's on this site.

KKNY-

My advice to the OP would be that ultimately it's up to the father but I don't blame her for thinking BM went across the line. If I was OP I would also tell my DH so. This is most important if they share money in a pot. I wouldn't just sit back and say nothing though.

I might say "Damn, I thought you divorced that b*tch. Are you STILL letting her call the shots in our home? I have a problem with that honey. IF SD wants money than SD needs to be the one to come to us. BM was way out of line putting words in our mouths."

"Either that or she's trying to make her EX miserable by attempting to control his finances."

....or trying to help her child with the house. often moms wants things for their kids not because they want exes to be miserable but because they care about their children. pretty simple. maybe it is a surprise for you but most people can't care less about their exes ot other people's exes.

"I might say "Damn, I thought you divorced that b*tch"

wow. just wow. is that how you talk at home?

If it's just J and I up after everyone has been in bed and we are having adult time....yes, GASP, I might.

"....or trying to help her child with the house. often moms wants things for their kids not because they want exes to be miserable but because they care about their children. pretty simple. maybe it is a surprise for you but most people can't care less about their exes ot other people's exes."

Had she handled it like a normal adult I might be more apt to believe this but by putting words in DH's mouth she was being overbearing and controling. No way around it.

"I might say "Damn, I thought you divorced that b*tch"

Great jog ignoring the rest of the paragraph that went with this by the way. You didn't have anything to say about SD coming to dad personally or BM being out of line. It was easier to make me the villain because of language in the first sentence. News Flash....people cuss. MOST people cuss when they are in their personal spaces with their very adult partner. I know everyone here will say "Oh gosh golly gee I would NEVER use NAUGHTY words" but whatever. You people arn't normal. When they get annoyed and frustrated people tend to do it more and lately this place is annoying and frustrating me.

If you think I have potty mouth you should hear BM FYI. OH, wait. That's OK though because she is mentally ill and can't help it. Never mind she talks that way IN FRONT of the kids. SHe is still BM so the kids will love her regardless so for that reason only SM's should be saints!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!

Doodble, Finedreams has commented on the general issue of how mom should have pursued this, but also commenting on it has to be taken in context (did Dad agree earlier to help? etc.).

Why are you upset if you stepchildren love their mother? I can understand you are upset with her being irresponsible, but why does it bother you if kids love her regardless???

OH SHUT UP KKNY. It doesn't BOTHER me but that is the EXCUSE that is used by crazy irrationals like yourself to excuse bio parent behavior. "It's still their mom" how many times has that been said on here?! No mtter what kindof disgusting F-ed up stunt they pull they remain on the pedestale of bio perndom but if a step parent cusses it's "tiisk-tisk" I guess when the BM SUCKS as a role model it totally falls on the step parent to be perfect and pick up every ounce of her slack. ONLY when it's convienient though....SM's shouldn't go to Dr.s visits or schoo meetings.

You said ARGH as to kids still loving their mom. I have never excused irresponsible behaivor, but yes SM not a mom, except in very unusual circumstances. In your case, Dad is mostly SAHD, he can certainly do these things.

(did Dad agree earlier to help? etc.).

I would guess NO if it wasn't in the almighty "agreement" you are always preaching about. It should of been discust and put in the agreement just like Step Parents should discus all this off the wall crap before getting married. You are awful quick to say WE are suppose to consider all possibilities:

EXAMPLE:

What if DD wins the smartest kid in the state and needs tickets to France for the World wide competition and also a solid gold beret to wear and admission fee's to participate and spending money to go on the Eifele tower tour with her group and OH don't forget BM needs money cause she's going too adn of course they will only stay in the BEST hotel....ALL THESE THINGS SHOULD BE DISCUSSED! These are allpossibilities that need to mulled over BEFORE marriage.

Never mind that Step daughter is in bad need of glasses or is already enrolled in a class. CUT THAT KID OFF!!!! BM's DD comes first! How dare that step kid ROB a Bio child of daddy's money. DD NEEDS HERE GOLDEN BERET! HAHAHA

Ao IMHO if she didn't have in the agreement it don't mean squat and IF DH decides to say no, guess what? There is nothing BM can do about it accept fume.

"except in very unusual circumstances"

Like MY circumstance you mean.

and NO the girls loving their mother does not bother me...it pisses me off at BM that she doesn't seem to care though.

"he can certainly do these things:

do what things? Be an example? They look to a woman for that KKNY and their mom is not aorund so they look to me. Given the choice they will come to me for almost everything not because they don't love their daddy becasue they do but because they desperatly want a MAMA. I AM THEIR MAMA.

"and also a solid gold beret to wear"

ROFL!

"Great jog ignoring the rest of the paragraph that went with this by the way. You didn't have anything to say about SD coming to dad personally or BM being out of line.
If you think I have potty mouth you should hear BM FYI."

i said about 15 times that mom had to discuss with dad first and she sounds pushy, i said that many times, but mom isn't posting here so we do not really know what and how she said it. could be that SD made it up to get money out of dad, could be that mom and dad decided with the house but SM was not informed, could be many things. OP is the one who posts here, not mom.

as about bad mouth i don't care. i occassionally use bad words, but you said that SM has to refer to her DH's exwife in these terms. I just thing it is too extreme, i don't think there is any need to refer to DH's exspouse in such terms. I would not listen to anyone refering to my DD's father in such terms. and i hope he wouldn't let his wife talking like this about me. not like she would though.

Sm doesn't have to refer to BM as B*tch but if BM did this to me I deffinalty would.

B*tchy is as B*tchy does after all.

P.S. J calls BM that all the time. AND NO NOT ANYWHERE WHERE THE GIRLS COULS HEAR!!!!!

Let me squelch that before everyone has a heart attack.

Gold beret, it is actually funny...hahah DD would look good in it. hahah I and DD went to Paris in April and we did stayed right across from Louvre. Not the best hotel, but a nice one. Although DD doesn't have gold beret, she has golden shoes, they are so gross gold and shiny, they overshine Paris roof tops, they look so ridicilous. hahaha DD wears unusual clothes so gold beret would be right in style. hah Oh boy. she bought earings in Paris, in one ear is Red Ridding Hood and the in other is the Wolf. hahah You got the picture what she wears...Now i wished we bought a gold beret to match. too funny.

but on a serious note, I mean gold beret is bizzare but if kid really is the smartest and got a trip to go to and there is money, why not pay for it? who is to decide what is more important? BTW trips to France aren't that expensive, cheaper than travelling around the US.

I meant a solid gold beret Finedrams.
The pointI was trying to make was that what some folks EXPECT is outlandish to others. On teh same hand it is reidiculous to expect a potential new spouse to see this sort of off the wall expense pop up.

I think a trip to France for two with a solid gold beret would still be considered a pretty major expense for most folks Finedreams. No one that I know could go at the drop off a hat anyway.

Posted by doodleboo (My Page) on Thu, Jul 9, 09 at 11:04

"It still doesn't excuse the fact that BM is a pushy twat sticking her divorced nose in places it does not belong "

hahaha, doodle you crack me up...pushy tw@t....hahaha...I haven't heard that one in years...hehehe....

Glad you appreciate my "keeping it real" ness. I have tried to be all politically correct on this site but you get crucified either way so you might as well say what you MEAN! LOL.

I've learned each of us deserve a lamp to the head at some time, for one reason or another.

I was kidding about solid gold beret LOl. It was just funny to me because of the silly golden shoes DD has. No i don't think people should buy solid gold things (unless again they can afford it which is unlikely). Or ask exspouses to pay for this stuff. of course no one would discuss it in divorce proceeding. But downpayment for a hosue is not that unusual and it is possible mom and dad discussed it previously.

On the subject of LOUD fashion taste in kids.....

The girls had Disney Princess dresses. On had a Cinderella dress and the other had a Sleeping Beauty dress. They were big a poofy with lots of tulle and sequins and they came with the matching crown.

They were really cute dresses untill about a year went by and then they were torn, dingey and too small. The sequins were falling off and the girls lost the tiaras. The hard thing was they were always wanting to wear them in public. LOL. They would wear them with jeans and chuck t's. It drove me nuts but they loved them so much I always caved.

I guess they were rocking the grundge look. They would have fit right in a Nirvana or Alice in Chains video. I was o glad when they got new ones last CHristmas from my parents and THANK GOD they no longer feel the need to wear them in public:)

I know when my D was little, she had a favoite Disney dress. She wore it and wore. One time we were out of town and we had to get the hotel to clean it. She wanted me to get a matching dress. As she grew and grew (she only grew taller, still skinnny), I made a petticoat to go under it to add inches it.

Had I kown had to sew back then I might of tried to remove the ripped tulle and done some damage control on the sequins, etc etc. I didn't know a needle from a seam ripper back then. That was pre-sewing class days.

I think they have outgrown the disney stuff anyway. They are totally into Hannah Montanna these days. LOL

I am old enougth they taught sewing when I went to school (girls only). I have made capes etc to round out Disney outfits. My XMIL had given me a sewing machine when we were married. X allowed me to keep. Hahaha.

and btw when I said we had to get cleaned at hotel, I did wash myself when we were are thom.

KKNY-

It got to the point where I was afraid to wash them becasue everytime I ran them through the machine another piece fell off. LOL. I think they had those things for three years with CONSTANT wear and tear. They were utterly hideous by the time the girls lost interest.

BTDT, yes kids can have a favorite stuffed animal, outfit, blankee, book etc.

DD still has favorite things that she wears and wears until it gets embarassing. my least favorite phase was when she made her own teeshirts (her own prints on them I mean) and her own clothes, oh my, she made one skirt that i used to hide from her. LOL oh my, that was something.

when she was in a middle and beginning of high school almost all of her clothes was some kind of bands, if she couldn't find them she would make her own prints on t-shirts. like all of her clothes was this way, thanks G_d at least she doesn't wear Libertines or Nirvana shirts anymore. LOL at some point everything including walls in her room and every item she owned were adorned wiht something related to Libertines. I guess she grew up now, that's over...

"you get crucified either way so you might as well say what you MEAN! LOL."

See and I just thought you were showing off your new "piercings"