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SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooooooo

Posted by organic_maria (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 20, 09 at 13:11

Well, yup , now i have rudeness and straight out rudeness from SS with guests. I figure he's now beginning to start up...
We went over toa relative a few weekends ago. I wanted to visit my uncle cause he just finished chemotherapy for cancer. After not even 30 minutes, ss comes into the kitchen and announces to the entire family there that he is bored and wants to leave.
My response: Roll of the eyes, looked at my husband with the death look and i wont take this S**T from anyone look....The family got quiet uncomfortable until my husband broke the silence with a quick response to his son ' That was a very rude thing to say, i dont care if you are bored, WE are not finished with our visit, and WE will decide when its time to leave' With that he turned about face and went to another part of the house. We all smiled at my husband and said its ok. Kids will be kids and you did the right thing to embarass him back.
Well, when it came time toleave , we went to another relative , he got the sour expression on the face but it soon turned to happiness. He hooked up with my bratty nephew which my cousin was SOOOO happy they kept both themselves busy:) lol....Her boy is also veyr demanding and does this obnoxious demands in front of family....
so i guess its more of a boy thing...cause my SD never does that...never announces she is bored. She'll keep it to herself and then state it afterwards.
Anyways...i've noticed a bit of a change with him. Becoming more demanding by asking for big item gifts from his dad. Which he tells him, he doesn't have the money for that. So i dont know where that is coming from.
He does like me but i get this tad feeling he's got a chip on his shoulder...or something...dont know yet...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I believe children learn by example. Frankly, I would have been hesitant to bring a child on a visit to a convascelent, but so be it. In any event, if child said he was bored, I would have suggested he play with nephew, and/or would have brought book or ipod along.

Dad was rude too. Not good to set an example. Rolling eyes -- not a good idea if you don't want kids to emulate. Adults should be able to set the tone, explain rules, etc without resorting to eye rolling or rudenes.

Calling kids bratty, using the expression chip on shoulder, -- I dont think this is the way to raise caring polite children.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"Frankly, I would have been hesitant to bring a child on a visit to a convascelent, but so be it"

Ummm, this is exactly how children learn compassion and to think of people outside of themselves. When I was growing up, about once a month my mom would take me and my brother to visit my grandfather's 90 yr old 1st cousin. She lived about 45 minutes away, lived alone and loved having guests. Did I like it? Not really, to be honest. I remember being bored at her house BUT I would have gotten in loads of trouble if I'd ever said as much! My mom did acknowledge to us that she KNEW we didn't like visiting her, but that it was the "right thing" to do. And you know what? IT WAS. Looking back, I think about how at 90+, this woman would bake and cook us lunch, and sit and chat for at least an hour or two. I know now that those visits must have meant a lot to her because she obviously looked forward to them---good china in the dining room, a big "mid-day meal" etc.

In short--I don't think there is anything wrong with taking a child to visit an elderly person or a "convalescent."

"Calling kids bratty, using the expression chip on shoulder, -- I dont think this is the way to raise caring polite children."

How does what maria says TO US have anything to do with raising caring children?


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I had the meanest mother in the world, & I don't think even she would have been so bent out of shape had I said "I'm bored" nor so pleased at having embarrassed me or at my father having embarrassed me.

"I'm bored" is not a hangin' crime.

Visiting any sick/weak/poorly/ancient adult is boring at best, excruciating at worst;
think of how often the *adult* relatives of people in hospitals & nursing homes do or don't visit.

& I never have understood why otherwise seemingly sane people insist on dragging kids to nursing homes & hospitals to visit people the kids barely know.

In the case of Farrah Fawcett & her son Redmond, I'm glad he got to see his mom before she died...
but I don't think, for instance, that he should have been made to go to a hospital/nursing home/hospice to visit a step-uncle.

Kids (like everybody else) act the way the people in their lives act.

It's sort of like that old cussin' thing;
even if it's cute the first time...

My aunt, who had a "colorful" style of expression, once was barred from keeping Sharon, her first grandchild, for several months because the child's mother was appalled when little Sharon walked under the kitchen table, banged her head, & said, "Well! You'd *think* Granny would watch where she puts the dam table!"

Note that Sharon's mother got mad at Sharon's grandmother for cussing & not at Sharon for repeating it.

so I predict eye-rolling, "death looks", & stern admonitions about how *he's* making the decisions from this kid.

Asking for expensive things...
may be just one of those things, testing limits, practicing for future episodes, etc.

"Can I have a car? no? Well, can I have a bicycle?"

"Can I have a baby brother? no? Well, can I have a puppy?"

If I were in your boots, I think I'd leave the kid at home, with or without his dad, when I went to visit my own ailing relatives;
at the least, it would be a kindness to the ill relative!


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Lovehadley, how often have you said -- to anyone -- that your child was bratty or having a chip on the shoulder?

I think if kids see their parents treat their own parents (i.e, grandparents) with respect and kindness, they will learn from that. There are plenty of conversations that are boring, if not inappropriate, for kids.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"I never have understood why otherwise seemingly sane people insist on dragging kids to nursing homes & hospitals to visit people the kids barely know"

Because it's not always about the kids! Seeing and interacting with children often brings elderly people in nursing homes a lot of JOY. It's about showing compassion and teaching children to give to others!

I agree that something shouldn't happen that is tramautic for a child---ie, like visiting an angry, combative person w/alzheimer's, or visiting a dying person, unless one they are close to. BUT I just don't see anything wrong with what maria did. It was a short visit to see a sick relative. SS is bored? Sorry, he'll live. It's not ABOUT HIM. I agree, if this is someone he doesn't know well or see often, it would have been acceptable for him to bring along a book or nintendo DS or something else to occupy his time. But IMO there's just nothing wrong about this visit.


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Child/adults rudeness

I don't know enough about the person to know how long has been off of chemo. I have had friends whom it took a while to get back their strength, their appetite aftter finishing chemo. I would not have taken child on first visit, I'ld see how everyone is doing -- and the uncle is not the child's uncle, but a step uncle -- we dont know how close they are. But all that being said, I would be better prepared next time.

Some kids will end up polite even if their parents are rude. I've seen it. One fellow I knew, his son was exceeding polite. The son later told my DD -- it wasnt that his dad was strict with him (which he was), but rather he saw people's reaction to his dad rudeness. Now his dad is powerful lawyer, so he'll always have associates. But son said he didnt want to go through life like that.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"In the case of Farrah Fawcett & her son Redmond, I'm glad he got to see his mom before she died...
but I don't think, for instance, that he should have been made to go to a hospital/nursing home/hospice to visit a step-uncle."

Redmond is an adult that was in jail when his mother passed. I dont think he could be made to go see anybody. HE IS AN ADULT.

I dont see anything wrong with taking a child to see an elderly sick relative. It does brighten them up and bring joy for them to see kids. Its one thing for the kid to say they are bored to thier parent but not to annouce it and be rude by saying he wants to leave.

IMO maria you reacted as most of us would have.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Per OP, he spent 1/2 hour before saying he was bored. I actually think that was pretty good. I'ld like to hope I would not have responded rudely by rolling my eyes, but rather I would have anticpated issue. Also, we dont know connection -- this was Stepmom's uncle, not kid's uncle.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

kkny my uncle is not a convalescent. He's 81, capable of still digging his own garden for veggies and quite active. He just finished chemo..he's not dying for crying out loud.
And i couldnt' give a Flying F! if its not his biouncle. He was rude, had not right to be. My husband was not rude at all for doing what he did. In fact, Its called fathering. A child has his place in thsi world and saying he's bored, i want us to leave now is not his place to decide. WE will not leave him at home alone, because knowing how BM is, she would charge us with neglect and he would probably use it against us saying we dont want him around. They're were plenty of toys for him in the other room to play with along with our son, his brother.
There is nothing wrong in seeing my uncle. I guess he shouldn't see his paternal grandfather who is older and is an alcoholic kkny. ...oh..but i'm sooooo sorry...its his real grandfather so it doesn' count....quite the BS.
Adults are the parents, they will lead. If he finds it so boring over at my house, then he can stay at his mothers...oh ...but she smokes pot and sleeps all day and his Sf calls him a little SOB...oh...but that's ok...its mommies husband.,
Rolling eyes, you better believe it, Cause if it were my son, we would get a swift slap across the back of the head if he ever did that! Its called manners which of course he is not learning at home.
As for my bratty nephew...that is what my cousin , his mother , refers him:) She's open and honest to state that her son is Royally spoiled by the parents of her husband and she is struggling to correct his behaviour.
Needless to say my SS and him had a great time and kept each other busy. They had such a wonderful time together , that when it was time to leave that party, he wanted to stay longer. He got a very nice gift bag too and in the end apologized to his father for being rude at the first house.
So kids learn kkny by example. Yes , they learn what we teach them. TO NOT BE RUDE, IN FRONT OF ELDERLY PEOPLE. To see they are human.
my uncle didn't have an oxygen tank on him or had tubes sticking out. He was in his home eating lunch. Which he did give chips to both my ss and son as a treat. Regardless of his rude behaviour. He needs to learn how and when to say things. My sd would never do that and she has never done so. As i stated...i think its more a boy thing. and an age thing.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Some people like to argue
But I won't call them by name
they might report me to garden web
And that would be a shame!

Some people just like to say
White
If you say
Black

I have heard
that this is called
an unethical
attack

I cannot say their names here
For that I could be banned
But we really need an ignore button here
So that we can all take a stand! :)


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Lol...thanks Shannon.
Yes some people here are just S**t disturbers to say the least and they will selectively choose or add new words to just argue.yes....very true.
I'm sure she would argue i should give a room to these kids who visit now every 2 months or so...hate to break reality to you...bm has taught them that is a privalage for my dh to have them and not his right. That it is not their home here and are visitiing...So i will treat them exactly like i treat any visitiing in my home. With respect and a place to sleep . So you might as well put me on the stake for that one too ...lol...i'm just doing what their mother wants in the end. I'm sure it should make her happy. After all, she's worked so hard with PAS to orchestrate this entire situation over the last 8 years. A work of art....puke..
oh yah, Thanks Love for defending me. I know how to raise a proper, respectable child in a free drug zone house and free verbal and mental abusive home. (Even my SS commented on that last week during his stay. That its not the same over at mommy's house. Everyone fights, swears and its a bad place. and that is comign out of his mouth..not mine. but hey mommy know best eh?)


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Organic,

So let me understand, this child does not even live with you, so I assume he has no real relationship with your uncle, and yet you bring him on a visit there? And become annoyed when he becomes bored? Sounds to me like you wanted to visit uncle, had nothing else to do with the child, and did not prepare for visit.

As to PAS, more and more courts are discounting it as not recognized by professionals.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Keep plugging kkny,,,the more you plug the more ridiculous it gets.
THe children do not live with us, they've hit teen years so nothing suites them now. So their own mother is in the same boat as well.
I dont care if he has no relationship to my uncle. WE, as a family went for a visit. WE were well prepared for both kids.WE will decide when its best for All of us to leave. I WILL NOT take orders from a child and yes kkny if it was my own child i'ld put himin his place as well. I was not annoyed. I was disgusted at his lack of manners which his entirely his mothers fault.
So you can harp all you want and get defensive about SM and how we treat our children. We treat them fair and equally in my family. THe fact is he was rude, put in his place like any child and i will not have you state otherwise. I am right . You are wrong. I am a BM and i know how to raise children.
And PAS is very real. And in my province , you can lose child custody over it. It is being proven in court to very damaging to the child as a whole.
So keep painting a nice portrait for yourself. Stop 'attacking ' people .
And your understanding on the topic is way off. Like i said..stop your BS.
THanks again Love for defending me.
oh yah, you forgot to understand her pot loving mother and her abusive husband? oh i see, you've decided to understand it differently.
bump!


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Organic -- it doesnt seem to me that the child is really part of your family if he doesnt visit there that much.

I'm not defenseive -- I don't see certain approaches as fair or particularly well advised.

To say oh, his mother is worse, is not relevant. It is certainly not the child's fault whatever the mother does.

As to your saying you will not have me state otherwise, I am free to state as a I wish. Possilby you have an overly strong need to control.

I am not attacking anyone -- I am suggesting alternatives.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

If we do not teach children anything we fail them as adults.

It starts when they are babies and continues until ....

From something as simple as wiping their own butts, showering by themselves, putting themselves to sleep at night, to the all important manners.... etc.

You can say pas does not exist and we say it does .... when you have been on the receiving end of it it exists when you are the one dishing it out does not exist.

Maria's point I think is BM has the children 99% of the time its her "job" to teach her children manners. She does not foster a relationship with their dad she inhibits it and if dad said something to his child apparently he found the behavior unacceptable .... maybe he looks at other children his younger son included and sees the mistakes he made with his own older children and not teaching them how to use manners and is now trying to correct those mistakes ....

Some os us were not blessed with perfect parenting skills ... some of us have to learn along the way.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"As to PAS, more and more courts are discounting it as not recognized by professionals"

This is not true.

Parental alienation syndrome is becoming more and more recognized. BOTH GALs in our custody case used the term with us regarding BM's behavior.

I had not heard the term until a few years ago. It's definitely being brought out into the mainstream and I think it's GREAT. People that are quick to dismiss it do so because they've not experienced it nor have they seen the damage it can cause to the child. It's hard on the parent being alientated by the other parent but it's even worse on the child.

PAS does not have to occur in situations where one parent has custody and the other has EOW visitation. My DH has joint phys. custody and he is a victim of BM's attempts to alienate SS from him.

"Your dad loves SM and SD more than he loves you and that makes me sad."

"No one loves you more than I do."

"I'm going to tell your dad to protect you from SM."

"Your dad and SM want to take you away from me."

OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, these are things BM has said to SS-either DH has HEARD her say them or SS has repeated them to us. I could make a list pages long if I sat and went back over all the years.

People like this will do and say ANYTHING to make sure their child loves them best, and knows how "awful" the other parent is. People like this do NOT want what is best for the child, it is all about punishing the other parent, and for BM---in her eyes, if SS doesn't like his dad, doesn't like our home, then she "wins."

It is absolutely real and it boils my blood to hear people say otherwise. Unless you've experienced it and seen firstand what it can do to children and families, you just have no idea.

Back to Organicmaria---don't feel you have to defend yourself on here to anyone!


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pas

"You can say pas does not exist and we say it does .... when you have been on the receiving end of it it exists when you are the one dishing it out does not exist."

100% agree.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

From wiki (not my favorite source, but a good start)

In courts

Canada
Early Canadian court cases accepted expert opinions about PAS, used the term "syndrome" and concurred with Gardner's theory that only one parent was fully responsible for it. Gardner testified in one case (Fortin v. Major, 1996) but the court did not accept his opinion, concluding that the child was not alienated based on the evaluation of a court-appointed expert who, unlike Gardner, had met with the family members.[24] More recent cases, while accepting the concept of alienation, have noted the lack of recognition in the DSM-IV, and have generally avoided "syndrome" terminology, emphasizing that changes in custody are stressful for the child and should only occur in the most severe cases.[24] A 2006 research report by the Canadian Department of Justice described PAS as "empirically unsupported" and favored a different framework for dealing with issues of alienation that has more research support.[41] Decisions about possible parental alienation are considered a legal decision, to be determined by the judge based on the facts of the case, rather than a diagnosis made by a mental health professional. There is recognition that rejection of a parent is a complex issue, and that a distinction must be made between pathological alienation and reasonable estrangement.[24]

United Kingdom
In the United Kingdom, the admissibility concerning the evaluation of PAS was rejected both in an expert review,[42] and by the Court of Appeal.[9][10]

United States
PAS has been cited as part of the child custody determination process in the United States.[9] Based on the evaluation of PAS, courts in the US have awarded sole custody to some fathers.[6] PAS has been challenged under the Frye test, to evaluate if it has been accepted by the scientific community.[6][43] Despite Gardner claiming PAS was generally accepted by the scholarly community and passed the Frye test in two states,[11] a 2006 analysis of court cases involving PAS and cited by Gardner concluded that these decisions did not set legal precedent, that PAS is viewed negatively in most legal scholarship, and that Gardner's writings do not support the existence of PAS. Of sixty-four precedent-bearing cases, only two decisions, both in New York State and both in criminal courts actually set precedents. Both held PAS inadmissible and one case found that PAS failed the Frye test as the appropriate professional community did not generally accept; this decision was upheld in an appellate court. Gardner listed fifty cases on his website that he claimed set precedents that made PAS admissible, but none actually did; forty six set no precedents or did not discuss admissibility and the remaining four were problematic. One case stated that PAS passed the Frye test, but the appeal did not discuss the Frye test and actually "[threw] out the words "'parental alienation syndrome'" and focused on the "willingness and ability of each parent to facilitate and encourage a close and continuing relationship between the parents and the child." In the second case the appellate court did not discuss PAS; the third case specifically chose not to discuss the admissibility of PAS and the fourth made no decision on PAS.[6]


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reply

I'm not about to get into a google war because EVERYONE knows you can find anything you want to support anything....

For every article you find debunking PAS, I can find another one showing it's validity.

I can google "diet coke causes cancer" and find fifty articles that say it does and fifty that say it doesn't.

PAS boils down to EXPERIENCE and those of us who have experienced it/or seen it firstand know all too well how real it is.

But just for kicks....here you go!

http://thoughtsongod.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/court-rulings-that-have-recognized-parental-alienation-syndrome/


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Gardner, the father of PAS

You might also want to read more about Dr. Gardner, the father of PAS, who has committed suidice.

http://www.cincinnatipas.com/dr-richardgardnerautopsy.html


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bliss

I have a friend who was so ALIENATED by her ex to her children she committed suicide rather than be tortured any longer by a bitter abusive ex husband .... and when they called him to tell him his ex wife had died he said "good the state can deal with her" ....

He threw my friend out of their home and because she "had no place to live" she couldn't even take her children any time she went to the house to see her children he had her arrested he changed the phone number so she couldn't call her children he told her children horrible mean and nasty things about their mother, her children thought she didn't love them anymore they inturn said mean horrible and nasty things to her with dad's encouragement

so who cares if the man committed suicide he was probably at his wits end dealing with people who are only out to make everyone around so miserable that he would rather just end the pain than continue to deal with it.

and I will say it again

You can say pas does not exist and we say it does .... when you have been on the receiving end of it it exists when you are the one dishing it out does not exist.

ask any parent who just gives up rather than deal with the ex making their kids hate them .... doesn't matter father or mother.... you have to love your children more than you hate your ex.

And vindictive people do not care who they hurt in their quest as long as they are happy the rest of the world does not matter to them even if its their own children.


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pseudo

"And vindictive people do not care who they hurt in their quest as long as they are happy the rest of the world does not matter to them even if its their own children."

Yep.


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re:father of PAS

so if he is the "father of PAS" their must be a mother....

Just because he was the first to write about it doesn't mean he invented it.

I cannot quote anything don't have a big degree or time to google/wiki nonsense.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I think this boy has to be taught that even if he is bored (and of course he was) it is not nice to announce it and it has to be kept to himself. I don't think adults responded appropriatelly though.

I don't think we should teach kids manners when they are already in public places. he should be taught at home how to behave when he visits. If you want kids to eat with knife and fork you teach them at home, so they can do it properly at a party, you don't start giving lessons at a party.

so same here. No need to embarass him at a party by rolling your eyes or saying he is rude.

he needed to be taught that this is elderly ill man and he needs our compassion and everybody should show him good spirit etc and so if you get bored there here take coloring book, Ipod, a magazine etc wiht you and keep busy when you get bored. So if he is taught all that, he will do all right next time.

Children should visit elderly and ill the more the better but they need to be prepared for that properly. On the other hand if he is rude always to everyone, it needs to be addressed, at home.


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sorry maria for hijacking

Whose home should he be taught at again maria's dh has him 1% of the time ...????


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time spent with dad

as i went back and reread... looks like SS spends very little time with dad so if he only sees him on rare occassion why does he have to spend that very little time visiting SM's uncle? i initially thought he lives or at least sees dad a lot. i think under these circumstances he had to do something with his dad, when he visits, while SM visits her family.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Exactly, FD --


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too late

too late already went on the visit .......the result of the visit is what she was commenting on ... next time she knows to exclude her SS from visits with ailing elderly family members for fear her SS will not learn how to behave appropriately in these settings

One more reason for BM to turn her children against their dad and SM. See they don't want you around... it has nothing to do with your bad behavior and my influences on you .... its all their fault.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Maria, I don't recall exactly how old your SS is...
But A__ is 10 and has pulled some similar stunts. Here's what we do now:
Before we go somewhere that may not be a thrill a minute for him, we remind him "We are going to Grandpa's, and there isn't much for you to do there. What would you like to bring to occupy yourself while we visit? OK, a book that you have LOTS left to read in - good choice! Want to bring a small bag of Lego too, just in case you get tired of reading? Oh, you'll bring your toy dinosaurs instead of Lego - that works too! ... You're perfectly welcome to chat with us if you'd like, but please remember your nice manners and to be polite. If you're playing or reading and get bored, you can quietly come ask us how long we're staying for, but please be quiet about it - it's rude to announce that you want to leave... If you're on excellent behavior today at Grandpa's house, then we'll stay up a bit late tonight to make popcorn and watch __movie_you_like__ tonight. Deal? Deal."

It hasn't been 100% all the time, but it's made a biiiiiig difference to lay out our expectations beforehand, to provide something for him to do, and to acknowledge and reward the good behavior after.
Boy, was he p1ssed when he was rude and whiny when we were out visiting and there was no movie that night... but you gotta stand your ground on a deal like that.

If you've tried this approach, and it hasn't worked at all, then I'm stumped.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"One more reason for BM to turn her children against their dad and SM. See they don't want you around... it has nothing to do with your bad behavior and my influences on you .... its all their fault."

Going through that right now.

BM lit into DH a couple weeks ago b/c SS isn't home with me during the day. This *proves* to her that I don't want him around.

Uh huh. It has NOTHING to do with the false allegations made against me, the police and the CPS visit...riiiight.

BM has (once again) twisted things around and now I am this awful SM because I don't "want to spend time with SS."

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

When I do spend time with him, take him to the pool, take him to the park, take him shopping, whatever--THEN I am "abusive" and she doesn't want him spending time with me.

She doesn't know what she wants. No, I take that back---she want what makes HER feel good. It is NEVER about what's best for her child.


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re: manners

It doesn't matter how much time a child spends with either parent. It doesn't matter who's uncle it is. Children need to learn manners and how to behave in ALL situations. They need to learn how to not be rude.

I had to stand in line for two hours yesterday to file documents at a court. There were five or six others in line that worked for various companies that do the same thing I do, file court papers. Most of these people are in their 20's. One started talking to another and said so & so just started with his company yesterday. I guess so & so is a girl that has been fired from several of the companies and all these people knew her. I've seen her at the court before and know who she is but have never talked to her. Well, within a few minutes, they had a bet going on how long she will last at this new company before being fired. They were naming the companies they worked for... one chimed in with 'how does she keep getting hired?'... I didn't say a word, but obviously the standards for these big companies are not very high... if she can be fired from several places and keep getting hired elsewhere in the same industry. But nobody in the group that was in on this bet picked up on that... after all, they all work for those big companies. What does that say about 'them'?

There were two people that openly criticized what the others were doing and I found that interesting. One refused to participate because it was 'bad karma' and the other said it was just wrong. That didn't phase any of the participants who kept the discussion going for over an hour & half. Obviously, the people participating have never been taught how to act professional. They apparently lack ethics. As a business owner, I wouldn't hire any of them & how they behaved directly impacts my opinion on these large companies that are my competition. I recognized at least one attorney that was also standing in line listening to this and wonder if he it will impact him using these companies... and there may have been other attorney's or independent owners like me there. The one that started the bet was the only one that was dressed professionally and if I had not heard her start this nonsense, I probably would have had a higher opinion of her. Too bad she had to open her mouth and show that looks can be deceiving. Dressing nice and 'looking' professional mean nothing if you don't know how to behave.

Now, that may not be the same as visiting with relatives during a visit, but there is a relationship to teaching children/people how to behave in certain situations. My SD lives with us, but when she goes to visit her mom, they may go to mom's BF's parent's house or visit her mom's relatives and she should have manners no matter where she goes, who she sees or what she does.

Anyone that thinks it's okay to be rude or ignore a person because they are not related or they only spend so much time with one parent so it's an excuse to be rude... well that says a lot about the person that thinks it's okay. That's not someone I would want around me.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I dont support rudeness -- I do think the child lasted a reasonable period.

I also dont support the adults being rude to children.


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Ceph

I think you have a number of good ideas --


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hmmm.... feeling guilty?

There's no need for anyone to get defensive... I mean unless you see yourself in something I write. I didn't name anyone or make any accusations.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"he only sees him (his dad) on rare occassion why does he have to spend that very little time visiting SM's uncle? i initially thought he lives or at least sees dad a lot. i think under these circumstances he had to do something with his dad, when he visits, while SM visits her family."

precisely.

"I dont support rudeness -- I do think the child lasted a reasonable period.
I also dont support the adults being rude to children."

exactly.

& what did SS learn that adults do?
roll eyes, give "death look", sternly admonish in front of other people.

& I do not & did not endorse pandering to brattiness;
adults do indeed "make the decision" on when to come & go & how long to stay...
& they should have planned better.

SS should have been provided with something to do, the age-appropriate version of that coloring book.

& if uncle has just finished chemo, he might have been delighted for the whole family to leave after 30 minutes.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

My SS doesn't come as much because his mother puts activities on dad's weekends. So there yougo....much respect there eh?
As for doing things separately. Yeah i can do them at times. BUT in this case the visit was in invitation by my uncle personally that morning. Because if i decided to do it myself and new my SS was in a stinky mood i would have left him with his father. You better believe that.
BUT you ladies have forgotten that SS apologized for his rude behaviour.
It doesn't matter who's house it is, what relationship you have with them, a child has absolutely no right to behave in such a manner. In fact, i would expect them to behave even more at a strangers house.
Being a parent and correcting their childs behaviour is not rude. He's teaching him. Showing him how he acted to get a dose of his own medicine. So when my dh corrects his sons ill behaviour no thanks to mom, he is now rude. BS BS BS BS TWo FACED DOUBLE STANDARD COPOUT.
I was and am a stepchild. And i NEVER was rude like that to my SM's family, to strangers and to my own. There is not excuse by defending this ....anyone who twists this into a sm being mean to stepchild or dh' siding on sms family is so full of themselves that they've been blinded by their own BS.
lol...wow...
pseudo mom, no , next time when WE as a family are invited, WE shall all go as a unit. Its SS tough if he cannot do things together because he was taught segregation by he dear mother. Who by the way keeps all things separate with her new hubby which is so awful to teach a child. He complains that we show family unity more than his family at home.
Ceph he's 11 years. He's not a bad kid. BUt just was a shock to me cause its the first time i ever delt with that from him. Like i said. Sd NEVER does this.
Thanks pseudo...the kids to live with mom 99% of the time. is she perfect. No , neither am i but i dont smoke pot, fall asleep on the couch and allow my new hubby to swear and demean the kids. I would have booted his butt out a long time ago.
Has she gotten better, Yes. She is now beign more stern with the kids because she has no choice for her situ.
YEs love, the bm in my situation clearly stated that we are not their family and that they just visit. And she interferes with every event possible. We had a bday to go to, she made sure they went to friends house. And then the kids turn aroudn and accuse us of not doing any activities on purpose. Which my dh states, no you cancel your weekend you lose out. Not my fault yours'.
So. in the end. Bm who is selfish and a control freak loses all for her kids. oh idid i mention sd is stariting to hate dear mother. who's fault is that? not mine! i told my dh a long time ago. let everything go, bm will hang herself iwth the nice long rope she has created.
Suffice it to say, after 8 years, she' s doen it with child number 1.
So stuff that in your brain kkny. You explain why this mother has damaged and hurt her kids. We welcomed those kids with open arms only to have them renched away every time for the sole purpose of mother jealousy. DISGUSTING. And i wont take the blame for that one.
Like i said, All her fault.
And you keep defending a character like that kkny....as aperson, its degrading.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I must have missed where kk defended the mother...

An 11-year-old who lasts 30 minutes before saying "I'm bored" is doing okay.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

If ANY of my kids... bio or step, came into a room full of adults and announces they are bored & want to leave... I'd have done more than embarrass him a little. It's completely unacceptable! How are kids ever going to learn that there are times in life that they have to do things they don't 'want' to do? That's why we have a generation of self centered 'entitled' brats! And that doesn't just go for step kids... plenty of bio kids are that way when there is no step family involved!

Give me a break! The truth is that none of MY kids would EVER do that. My aunt came to visit from out of state and was sitting talking to my dad & I. My nephew (my sister's son) came in, walked past the group without so much as a hi, how are you? Nothing! It's rude. If you don't teach your kids that it's unacceptable to be rude, who do you think is going to teach them? Certainly not their peers that are learning to do the same.

As I said, it was interesting that of the 30-35 people in line yesterday, only two people voiced opposition saying that what they were doing was wrong. Had they asked me, and I'm sure they didn't because of my age or maybe there was a look of disgust on my face at what they were doing, I would have responded telling them how unprofessional and immature they were behaving.

Hell! I was BORED standing in line for two hours. What do you think would happen if I announce to the group that I'm tired of waiting.. yell at the clerks to hurry up! Can you imagine? They'd have security haul me off because it's UNACCEPTABLE!


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

but your age is more than 11.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone who says that children must learn manners.

Of course they must.

But there's a difference between what is reasonable to expect from an adult, from a carefully brought-up 15-year-old, & from an 11-year-old whose parents haven't taught him anything & whose stepmother smirks when his dad bites his head off.

"Teaching manners" doesn't mean publicly humiliating a youngster.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I am sure had maria or her DH thought the child would act that way they would have talked to him before they left the house.... but since they didn't they reacted.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I'm sure you're right, pseudo mom.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

...my husband broke the silence with a quick response to his son ' That was a very rude thing to say, i dont care if you are bored, WE are not finished with our visit, and WE will decide when its time to leave'

"Some" of you keep saying that it is not right that the dad "humiliated" the kid....In that quote, I would like for you to explain to me how any of it is "humiliating"??? You can't.
Because it wasn't. It was rude of the kid to say, dad had every right to point that out to the child. Nothing that dad said is humiliating. Unless you think speaking to a child in front of others is humiliating???

Man, some of the women here are just nutz.
Now you can't even teach your kid manners without coming under fire lol. ... some bitter wives and it is surely showing lol. If I argued like some of the woman here and always had to be right, well....guess that might have something to do with why I might have an ex lol.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I dont think Dad humiliated the child -- I think dad and sm showed how lacking in manner they both are. I dont think courtesy should be practiced only by children. Rolling eyes and a tone of voice spoke as to the adults.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Oh the horror of a adult rolling their eyes at a child. He must be so distraught poor thing he will never be the same.


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Pseudo

For the Nth time, "teaching" manners through rudeness seems like an oxymoron to me.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Public ridicule is humiliating;
even assuming that this 11-year-old child has the hide of a rhinocerous, what his dad said to him was far ruder than what the child said.

Attacking "some of the women" who defend the child & using terms like "bitter wives" doesn't have anything to do with the way this father & the father's wife treated the child, & it sure as heck doesn't make the treatment of the child *right*.

One of the other posters likely has the right idea;
they didn't foresee that the husband's son would have nothing to do & get bored, & therefore they hadn't arranged for something to keep him busy.

but to blast him for being bored, or even for saying he's bored, is not only mean, it misses the mark;
he didn't know what to expect, but they did.

They should have said, "oh, sorry, why don't you find something to do (fill in the blank: in the garden, in the den, look through the magazines/books/tapes, etc), & we'll come get you when we're ready to go."
What disturbs me (more than what was actually said to the child, which was bad enough) is the fact that OP seems delighted with the fact that her husband treated the boy roughly.

Maybe he'll grow up like someone mentioned above, very nice & mannerly & considerate because he knows how awful his father's behavior is.

Poor kid, he evidently has a mother who doesn't advocate for him, & neither does his dad nor his dad's wife.

& I'm not a bio-mom, "bitter" or otherwise;
I'm just a former stepmom who has read enough about anger, resentment, abuse, & gloating on this forum to scare the bejeebers out of me on behalf of the kids & often the wives (first, second, whatever)& the mothers, step or bio.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

For the last time kkny THERE WAS NO RUDENESS THERE!. My husband pointed out his rudeness in front of everyone after his sons announced he was bored and then clearly asserted who makes the decisions in this family and its certainly is not a child!
Thank you WT!!! Finally another person who realized there was no rudenss in my dh but in my SS.
But i guess kkny you dont find what my ss said was rude eh? i guess you would have defended him after he tripped me on purpose at the doctor office holding my then 1 1/2 month baby ??? which thank God SD reamed him for that.
You see ss only acts up once in a while. WHich worries us. He is a volcanoe harbouring all his emotions until they explode in a blazing glory.
No kkny and fd WE in our family have nothing to do with his feelings...he doesnt spend that much time...its good ole mommy and new husband..this is why he opened up last time he was here and said he has his best times at our house. He loves it cause we dont fight, we dont swear, we dont smoke, we are not drunk. We go out as a FAMILY!
SS acting like any other child his age saying he was bored. He was also put in his place for it by his father. HIs right to do so. Like i said in another post, if it were my son i wouldn't tell him it was rude, i'ld tell him after i slapped him across the back of his skull.
No one humiliated him but himself He took it upon himself to come in front of my family, total strangers to him and behave rude. His fahter pointed out his rudeness and clearly stated WE decide when to leave which states our authority and not his.
THIS IS PARENTING PEOPLE. YOU TELL THE CHILD ITS RUDE AND THEN YOU ASSERT AUTHORITY.
If you let them decide, rule, you are up sh**s creek! Its the mother and fahter who decides. No not the bm in this case...sorry ladie. I'M THE MOTHER OF THIS FAMILY and my dh is THE FATHER. WE are the AUTHORITY FIGURES. WE lead the family. WE make the decisions.
1. doesnt matter where or who's place you are. Act respectible. if not , you'll be put in your place. he was by his father. and rightely so.
2. everyone understood becasue it wasn't about being a stepson people. he was a child who didn't know any better and was taught on the spot.
some of you and youknow who you are will completely blow something here on thsi forum out of proportion about stepkids. WAKE UP! stepkids are not special in any way shape or form. they are kids learning and will be taught along with the way. by a teacher, by an aunt, by their father, by a stranger. Its cumulative.
the problems arising these days is with this simple lesson in life, if they dont learn, they become empowered over adults, they call the shots, they become selfcentered, entitled brats. ANY CHILD Biochildren and stepchildren alike.
He will grow up to be respectable, Be WE will make sure of it.
oh did i mention his pot smoking mom and verbally abusive husband?
keep focusing on how rude my dh was to correct him by stating he was rude...so awful....and avoid the other info.....i'm sure if sm was doing pot you'ld be all over that morcel of info.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

As I said, poor kid, he doesn't have a very good deal for a mother, nor for a father or a stepmother.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

maria, I would have done the same thing as your DH. I've taught my DD since she could speak that while I'll give some leeway with rudeness at home, I absolutely will not tolerate it in public. Thus, the rule is embarrass me and I will embarrass you. It is a two way street. Saying I'm bored and ready to go in in front of company is plain rude and unacceptable. Thankfully, at 10, DD has learned the lesson well and would never make such a comment out loud. What she would do is come and whisper in my ear or ask me to come over and say out of earshot that she's bored and can we go to which I'd respond, I'm not ready yet, go find something to do to occupy yourself and give X,Y,Z suggestions. Lately, when she says she is bored, I'll simply tell her that boredom builds character and she'll go find something to do. Children should not be empowered to think they run things.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

I know my parents would have reacted like the OP, I survived but I do remember being embarrassed and angry on occasions. I do believe today I have good manners.
I recently saw a relative handle a similar situation to the OP by taking her son in another and talking to him a few minutes, he came back, apologized and went about playing. I must say I admired the way she handled the situation.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Eandhl -- I think you meant take in another room -- and yes that is way to handle. I think there were a lot of ways the situation could have been handled without the adults being rude.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

LOL! HA! SS phoned us last night to THANK US! For the best vacation he had.
He thanked us for being the BEST PARENTS by not fighting, thanked us for being a FAMILY TO HIM. Thanked us for teaching him wrong,,he again apologized for his behaviour last week!

Sylia
As I said, poor kid, he doesn't have a very good deal for a mother, nor for a father or a stepmother.

WRONG....lol... stick it up! SS proved you and a bunch of you wrong.

The kids is not poor. He's enriched with people who love him all around and who do care by teaching wrong and right. Unlike pot smoking mom and abusive SF.
My DH and I are GOOD parents. We are not narc heads. We do not swear or fight in front the kids. WE NEVER speak of their mother in front and what we do in private convo is private amoung a husband and wife.
SOOO....case closed:)

Children should not be empowered to think they run things. COMPLETELY AGREE. And when you show direction to children whether it be a cousin, biochild, adoptive, Step child they may not like it there and then but in the long run looking back they do come back and thank you!

I'm talking from experience. I am a stepchild. ...lets not forget.:)


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

So what would you have expected him to say?

His dad is all he's got.

(Not being a narc head doesn't mean you're a good parent.)


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

"His dad is all he's got."

Sylvia, didn't you just say he didn't have a good deal for a mother OR a father?

And now suddenly his dad is okay, but you're all over organic?

Sounds to me like organic and her hubby are a team, and it also sounds like the SS respects them and knows how much they want the best for him.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Either that, or more likely, SS is smart enough to know he has no other other choices. So Sad.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

sorry if that wasn't clear.

I didn't say his dad was okay,
I said his dad *is all he has*.


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Sounds to me like organic and her hubby are a team, and it also sounds like the SS respects them and knows how much they want the best for him.

You said it! A TEAM
I think that is probably the issue with some of the 'women' here. They have no clue how to be a team.
they sound more like the crazy ex wives a lot of us speak of lol. Taking out their anger and aggression on people that post here, obviously because we do care, unlike them. Because if they did, then they wouldn't be here, bashing decent people and making absurd accusations like people are not good parents for teaching their child manners.
@@ There is a big ole eye roll for you too!! LOL!


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RE: SS starting to show some arrogance + rudeness...here we goooo

Yes thank you we are a team. The kids know it and the is respect under our household.
Its so sad that sylvie and kkny sound so vindictive that they want to crucify a SM..oh did i tell you i'm a STEPCHILD MYSElf.
i am a damn good parent and the kids know it:)
Yes totally agree with you Wildthing and love. They aer sour and do not want to see any stepfamily succeed. Well hate to tell you ladies, but regardless of the issues presented to us, we survive and deal with it as a team and we do love the kids.
So pitty yourselves. Cause i know my stepkids would look at you guys like a piece of gum under a shoe that been scrapped on the edge of poop.
No , he's not that smart. He has a heart. A softy and know exactly who love him.
You guys really hate it when the kids love their stepparents eh? You are so full of S**t its unreal. You guys and you know who you are have truly now shown your colors.
Your just pist off and miserable in yoru own lives that you have to shat on someone else especially on SM' and even when you find out the stepkids love them. YOU DENY THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH THAT STEPPARENTS CAN ROCK BETTER THAN MISERABLE LOUSE LIKE YOURSELVES.
Ahh...it feels great to be vindicated. Loving the moment!
You sooo lose. and the kids have more than their dad, their grandparents, their peers, their uncle, the cousins. and best of all they have us.
So sad that both you ladies have your heads stuck up your ars.


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