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Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Posted by Amber3902 (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 29, 11 at 10:51

I know this is slightly off topic, but I figured the ladies on here have to deal with issues like this and seem to offer pretty solid advice.

Background - I have two girls, ages 12 and 5, BF has one son, age 8 that he is the NCP of.
I came on here looking for advice since my BF and I are considering moving in together.
Things have been going well. We are definitely getting on the same page as far as parenting goes. The plan is to move in together this fall and the way things are going I am very optimistic about it.

This Saturday is my 12 year old's birthday party. It is not BF's weekend to get his son normally, however, he made arrangements to get him for the party. I was like cool. Then last night BF calls me very upset.

Some background on BF. He and BM were never married. They broke up right after their son was born and BM moved about an hour away. BF gets his son every Wednesday and every other weekend.
BM has allowed her mother and step father to basically raise the son.

BF has a good relationship with BM's parents, so it hasn't been that much of an issue, except for the fact that BM will let the grandparents see the son before she will let BF see the son. Since the grandparents have basically raised the son, son has a natural attachment to his grandparents. BF is jealous of this. He knows it's the BM fault, but he still can't help the way he feels.

Anyway, BF had plans to get his son for this weekend. Last night BF calls his son to talk to him. Son says oh yeah, dad, can I go with grandma and grandpop to the movies Saturday for their anniversary?
BF gets upset because his son knows he already made plans to get him this weekend.
Grandma gets on the phone and says well, he can do both, he can go to the movies with us and go to the birthday party with you.
BF doesn't want to hear it. He basically is mad that son would prefer to go with his grandparents instead of him. He's mad because BM would rather drop son off at the grandparents instead of him.

He wants to get custody of his son, but BM does not want to because that would mean losing child support. BM will not let him get extra time with his son, for fear child support will be reduced.

BF is extremely frustrated and discouraged by this because he is always having to compete with the grandparents for time with his own son and it does not look like things will ever change. He feels that since his son prefers to spend time with the grandparents that he is going to give up trying to get extra time with him.

I'm not looking necessarily looking for legal advice, it just hurts me to see him hurt like this. I have to practically force my ex to see his kids, and here is this guy begging to see his own son. How do you help someone cope with something like this?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

it is tough...i know you did not ask for legal advice and i don't know much about legal part of it but does he have custody agreement with visitations in place?

maybe he could file for more time with his son or shared custody, also if CO says he sees him on XYZ days grandparents cannot interfere on that time.

of course grandparents should see SS, BUT on mom's time not dad's

his son might prefer his grandparents because he knows them better due to spending more time, i do think dad might want to try and get more time with SS, maybe time to call his lawyer...please encourage him not to give up


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Yes, he has a custody agrement in place.

This was not his weekend to have his son, mind you, so technically the grandparents were not interferring with his time. This was going to be on the weekend that he normally does not get his son and BM had already agreed that BF could get son. Shared custody would be hard, BM lives about an hour away from BF. And BM would fight it because that would mean less or no child support.

He just went last fall to court to get child support reduced due to an income reduction. At that time he wanted to try and get primary custody of son. His attorney said he had a very poor chance because status quo has been with the mother for so long. Even so, BF was still going to try. BM's mother was going to testify against her own daughter and say BM was a terrible mother and that BF should have custody of the son. However, at the last minute, BM's mother backed off. She said she decided not to testify because BF's chances of getting custody were slim anyway, and she was afraid if she did testify against BM that BM would not let her see the grandson anymore.

There is a whole issue of the relationship of my BF with his BM's mother. BM had her mother keep the grandson for two years and told her BF was not supposed to see his son. But the grandmother would sneak and let BF see his son. Sometimes the grandmother and my BF are like mother and son, other times they are competing for time with the son. At times they get along great, particularly when they are in union with the way they feel about BM. Other times the grandmother will do something sneaky, like take her grandson to the movies when she knows BF wants to take him to the same movie.

The grandmother has basically raised her grandson, and is almost obsessed with him. Taking your grandson to the movies with you on your anniversary seems kinda weird. Seems like you would want to spend that time alone with your husband.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

if there is a custody agreement mom shouldn't be able to withhold SS from his dad and hide him at grandmas, this woman is given too much power. i don't know what and if anything BF can do if BM chooses to send his son to grandmas on her time, but she should not able to do so on his time

i don't think BF is going to get full custody, he pretty much has to prove that BM is neglectful. statement "terrible mother" is very vague, they would want to see evidence


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

BM does not withhold SS from his dad or hide him at grandmas. It's just that BF only sees his son on Wednesdays, every other weekend but wants more time than that. The rest of the time is BM's and she is content to have her mother watch him. The grandparents even have a bedroom set up for the grandson at their house. The grandson spends more time with his grandparents than his own parents.

I know there isn't anything BF can do about where BM sends the son on her time, but it still eats him up that his son is spending more time with his grandma than he is with him.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Last summer at the beginning of our custody battle our lawyer told my dh that he could go get ss anytime he wasn't with his bm. The parent gets priority over anyone else no matter whose time it is.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

i thought you said BM hid her son at grandmas for 2 years, with court order things like that should not be happening

BF should file for more visitation time if he wants more, he won't get more time unless he gets in in writing through the court system. asking BM clearly is not working, she has her own sick agenda

momof3, if activity with a grandparent is planned ahead of time i don't think the other parent can just demand to get a kid any time he/she wants (not OP's situation, activity was not planned ahead of time). kids do need their grandparents too (again not 24/7 of course).


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Mom of 3 - you mean first right of refusal? It's kinda hard for BF to always do that since they live so far away.

PO1 - OH! Sorry for the confusion. Right, when the son was a baby she kept him at his grandma's. There was no court order in place at that time. BF had to save up the money to take BM to court and get custody established.
The CO has BF with every Wednesday and every other weekend.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

I don't know what its caller, amber. Po1, I know grandparents should see the kids. This grandparent is raising the kid. In our case bm had ss. With grandma every week of hers last summer. Dh didn't like that and wanted him. I think the kid should be with their parent more then grandma. Weekends here weekends there fine but not all the time. So... our lawyer said if dh didn't like it he had the right to have ss.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Sounds like your BF is whining and needs to grow up. Seriously. My son LOVES both sets of grandparents and absolutely prefers grandma over me any day of the week. I could not be happier at the bond my son has with his grandparents!
Sounds like the grandparents are being more than respectful to say, hey kid can do both we can work it out.
Your BF needs to get over that his son loves his ex's parents and stop acting childish about that 'he likes them
More than me' wow! I've never in my life...

He won't get custody just because son fosters an excellent relationship with his grandparents. I lived with my parents for a while and my ex said 'but she lives with her parents' and the judge said 'I'd rather a child live in a home with one parent and two amazing grandparents than to live with one parent who has a live in SO'

So... There ya go.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

yeah i agree parents should see the kid more than grandma especially when kid is with grandparent all the time and dad doesn't even get to see the kid!

would dad ask for every weekend or is it unreasonable? maybe 3 weekends a month? what about summer and holidays? does he get those? with an hour away it is hard to have extra time during the week


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Myfampg -
I do get what you're saying, but I think since BF does not get to see his son that much it's harder to take that someone else gets to pretty much have his son whenever they want and he does not.

"He won't get custody just because son fosters an excellent relationship with his grandparents." He has not said it like that, but I guess that IS what he wants. He wants custody of his son because he feels his son spends too much time with the grandparents and not him. And you're right, he won't get custody changed because of that.

"Your BF needs to get over that his son loves his ex's parents and stop acting childish about that 'he likes them more than me' "
I think you have a point there. Maybe I could him help him see that at least the kid is with people who care about him.

PO1 - He's tried to ask for more time and sometimes BM will let him get an extra weekend. But she is very careful about it because she is afraid to let him have too much time, knowing that can affect child support and custody.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

As Gma and BF are on good terms, BF can pick up the phone and work it out. It sounds more like the 'change' is due more to both BF and Gma wanting to take child to same movie.

If he wants his son and already made arrangements to pick child up, work it out so Gma takes him one night to movie and Dad gets child the next day for party or the other way around.

If child is anything like my GS kid won't care one twit if they both take him to the same movie (different nights). GS has seen several movies more than once...he thinks it's cool. Not much different than when one rents a movie and watches it twice before taking back or buys the movie with intentions of watching it more than once. Besides, kids like all the atmosphere of the movie house and popcorn and all the blah blah blah.

Not to belittle your situation but if BF wants to see his son, an hour is not all that much. Yeah, gas is expensive and all that, but at times one has to decide the trip is worth it or not whine he/she does not get to see the child. It might mean cutting just one tiny thing off a budget this month. Is seeing the child worth it?

There is also nothing stopping BF from still giving BM full current ordered support just because he sees kid a few more days a month. If she agrees to one more weekend or whatever I doubt it would be worth the trouble to try and modify whatever the CS payment a month is currently. I could see if there were to be a major change in time between homes, but a couple days a month are IMO nothing to get excited over on her part. As long as he pays his support and Gma usually has the child, I don't really see why she'd care. Sounds like the money is mostly what she wants by having 'custody' anyway.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Justmetoo, actually, the issue is that dad had arrangements to have his son, then grandma goes and gets grandson to ask if he can go with his grandma instead.

I do agree it shouldn't be that big of deal, but to BF it is. He constantly complains about having to drive an hour to pick his son up. I've read of other fathers who have driven further to see their kids.

I think Myfampg has a point about the whole "he likes them better than me" childish attitude. Hopefully I can find a tactful way to help him realize that he's being childish about this.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Quite apart from anything else, I think it's not a good idea for Son to be taught the lesson that if you have a previous engagement it's OK to cancel if you get another offer. Unless there are really extenuating circumstances this is rude. Besides, if it's the grandparents' anniversary, why are they not happy to celebrate together without taking Son away from an already arranged activity? Could they not take him to a movie another day?


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Colleenoz you hit the nail on the head!

"I think it's not a good idea for Son to be taught the lesson that if you have a previous engagement it's OK to cancel if you get another offer."
I totally agree!

"Besides, if it's the grandparents' anniversary, why are they not happy to celebrate together without taking Son away from an already arranged activity?"
Exactly!!!
It's like the grandma can not do anything without the grandson. It seems like she is obsessed with him. Who wants to take a kid with you on your anniversary? I think BF did not stand up to his son and tell him "No, we already have plans." Instead, he let himself think "He likes them more than me" and let that affect his thinking.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

--" It seems like she is obsessed with him. "--

I would not be too quick to toss stones at Gma. This is the lady who has given up her own life to basically raise the child nobody else is. Are you sure the lady even knew that the child had plans before she asked him along? The child knew, but did she? It was not a scheduled 'Dad' weekend. If she knew and still invited the child, that is wrong on her part, but if she assumed she'd have the child anyway as she does the majority of the time it may not have been a deliberate act.

As to why a grandparent would take her grandchild on an 'adult' type celebration, again it may not be as 'weird' as some here see it. When a grandparent has all but raised the child, knows she is going to have him there and it's routine for her to know this is how her time has to be spent...she thinks nothing of assuming if she wants to do anything she has to (not necessarily wants to) take the child along.

You're being pretty tough on a Gma that basically has the kid all but Wednesday nights and every other weekend. Where would this child be and who would be parenting him the other 20 something days a month if it weren't for his grandparents? Mom dumped him and Dad tosses up his hands and goes 'there is nothing I can do'. And you wanna bet who is paying the huge majority of actually supporting and supplying for this child? Do you really think Mom is handing over her CS money to her mother to help assist in what child needs?

At this point, between the actions or lack of actions on the actual bio-parents part, this child has been dumped on this Gma for 18 years of her life. Years I'm sure she never thought she'd be spending raising a grandchild.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

you know... I realize that myfampg has a good point about this dad not getting custody if bm and son were BOTH living with grandma.... but it sounds like it's just son. If you can somehow find out and keep track of where kid is all the time then maybe your bf could get custody. Mom isn't doing her job being the custodial parent therefore she doesn't deserve to be the custodial parent. I think you are going to have to somehow prove it though. Could he be sneaky and call son to talk to him and if he's at Grandma's go there and try to get a picture with a date on it? Or text bm and ask to speak to him. If the text says he's at Grandma's, keep that text. All texts are admissable as evidence, not sure about the phone though so you'll have to download them to email. If you have a smart phone you can do this easily. This is the BIG thing that got our bm in trouble. We had printed out texts. Grandma wasn't given custody, bm was, if she isn't raising the child the child should be with dad.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

I realize you're disappointed about the party and plans changing, but after just rereading your intial thread of introduction, I'm not sure trying to get custody and having son fulltime is a good idea yet.

You say BF and you are now on a better agreement on managing one household, but back in May you, yourself, had some serious issues and concerns with BF perhaps someday getting custody of son fulltime. You had fears of having to hide out in your bedtime and were dreding child being around all the time.

Have changes really changed for the better all that much that all the 'red flags' that were there two months ago or now ready to be 'move in and have this child 24/7? You mentioned back then that BF works a second job and it is just you and the girls on some weekends. Kid is only there two weekends a month...has the child stopped grating on your nerves enough that you're sure you want to take on child 24/7.

I'm not trying to be mean or judgemental, but you yourself told us about some real serious problems you had with the thought of BF getting son fulltime. The 'family' relationship in the homes were pretty tense and you were having a lot of issues with differences in lifestyles. Some of this could perhaps be 'why' at this point the child perfers spending time at his grnadparents vs coming to Dad's. Things are still in the adjustment stage?

Guess all I"m saying is before you and BF make any sudden moves or adjustments in custody be sure your ready as a family to take this on. So far you two are not married yet, not living together yet and Dad is still not sure he wants to put himself out an hour drive yet now he wants full cusotdy. I'm not saying child should maybe not be with Dad or that Dad should not try at some point to have more or complete access to the child...I'm just saying don't let a couple disappointments make BF/you jump the gun and start something you both are not maybe ready for.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Justmetoo � I�m responding to your post Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 7:26, then I�ll respond to your later post -

You�re right, I don�t mean to be so hard on Gma, but she did know that BF was getting the son for the weekend, which is why she had the son ask his dad if he could go with his grandma.

The grandma is not an angel. Both the BM and grandma are a special kind of crazy, one minute they are sweet, the next they hate you. The BM has filed a retraining order against her own mother.

One time the Grandma gave the son a TV to keep at BF�s house. Well, BF had put the TV in the basement until he had a chance to make room in the son�s bedroom.

A few days later the grandma sends BF a text. The son�s name is E - The grandma texts BF and says "E told me you are letting your roommate use the TV I gave to E. How dare you let your crackhead roommate use the TV. I want it back."

BF has a roommate that stays in the basement, and he let him roommate use the TV for a couple of days until he got his own TV. The grandma must have asked E about it, obviously the kid didn�t know that the roommate only borrowed the TV for a couple of days and told his grandma that the roommate was using the TV. BF text grandma back and said no, the TV was a gift to his son and he was not returning the TV.

The grandma sent BF several more texts, demanding he return the TV and threatening to call the cops on BF if he didn�t return the TV.

BF tells his son that grandma is threatening to call the cops on him because he won�t give the TV back to her. The next day, grandma sent BF another text "Now you told E I was going to call the cops on you. Now I�m calling the cops and coming to get TV."
She never did anything, but that is to show you what kind of person she is. Yes, she has taken care of the son, but you have to keep her at arm's length because one day she may love you, the next day she's threatening to call the cops on you. I don't talk to her too much, I'm polete and but am careful not to get too close to her. When I met her I felt something was not right about her, the way she was so gushing so much love for me and my girls before she even really knew me.

And I did tell BF he should not have said anything about the situation to his son. BF said "well my son deserves to know the truth about his grandma"


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

You were right, Amber, to tell BF he shouldn't have told son about situation. BF needs to realize that the son will eventually realize the truth about his family without dad telling him. I HATE my ss's bm but I cannot tell him that. The horrible things she does to him will be realized by him as he gets older.

JMT.... whether Amber wants bf to get custody or not, a parent really should be raising this child, not a grandparent unless both are unfit. If Amber is not ready then perhaps she needs to re evaluate her relationship. Dad really needs to get this bm to raise the kid or dad needs to.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Hmmm, she sounds a bit nutty, but she's still the kids Gma. Don't talk about her infront of the child and keep reminding BF that child does not need to know everything that goes on between the adults. When child is the go-between on info, things can get screwed up. To stop that crap again, I bet BF learned a lesson. The tv should have sat in son's room until ready for hook-up, letting a basement house roomer use it was improper, it was indeed a gift to son...he's 8, was excited and sees his gift being used by somebody else. I realize it was innocent enough in meaning, but kid took it and ran with what he thought was wrong.

If Gma knew and tried to get her own way on this weekend, it was indeed out of line. In that situation I'd have no problems telling the child 'tough' he's already committed, plans have been made and it's rude to accept and than change mind because kid thinks something better came along. It would not be incorrect for BF to have a chat with son about hurting feelings, breaking committment blah blah. One of the things that Dad owes the child, teaching him to be respectful and mindful of other people.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Justmetoo- this is in response to your later post - Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 9:28

You are right I was concerned about moving in together with BF, but yes, I do feel better about things. What I have found is BF has no problem when I correct his son, and backs me up when I correct his son. The only problem occurs when I talk to BF about his son, then he gets defensive. But if I handle the situation myself, there isn't a problem.

I also have been trying not to nick pick on every little thing, and BF and I also have agreed on rules that apply to all of the children. Remember the incident about his son eating doughnuts and drinking soda? BF was the one who was complaining that his son was too hyper. Come to find out, BM is the strict one and BF is the one that is a little lazy when it comes to parenting. Well, anyway, BF started watching his son's sugar intake and admitted to me that it did help with his son's hyperness. And it's not about who's right or wrong, mind you, it's about doing what's best for the kids. If a kid is too hyper, then we need to watch his sugar intake, and that's all I was trying to help BF see. Fortunatly, he was able to see what I was saying and take my suggestion. BF has helped me not be so uptight, and I have helped him see where he has been too lax. As a result, there has been a "meeting in the middle" so to speak, and it has been working great.

Another thing that has happened since my last post is this: Recently BF had his son for two weeks straight. He got to see what it was like to really be a parent and not just a weekend dad. After about the third day his son's behavior was getting on his nerves and he realized letting his son do whatever was not good parenting. He started "laying down the law" so to speak. He made his son listen, and punishing his son when appropriate.

And now that BF is making his son behave, I am starting to enjoy time with his son. BF's son has come up with a sweet nickname for me, and recently told me he loves me. It was such a great feeling because I wanted BF's son to tell me that on his own, without prompting and he did. And I was honestly able to tell him I loved him too. So yes, I do feel better about moving in together.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Amber I keep saying same thing, I don't think i express myself correctly. I said dad should ask in COURT to have more time not ask BM. You keeps saying BM won't let him. if there is CO, she will have to let him.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

--"JMT.... whether Amber wants bf to get custody or not, a parent really should be raising this child, not a grandparent unless both are unfit. If Amber is not ready then perhaps she needs to re evaluate her relationship. Dad really needs to get this bm to raise the kid or dad needs to.--

What should be and what is are not the grandparents fault here, Mom3. The child is 8 yrs old. BM and/or Dad should have been fighting for this child and stepping up to take care of this child years and years ago. BM dumps kid at her mother's for two years...plenty of time to have taken custody issues to court then. BM still dumps kid at mom's and grandma admits her daughter is a rotten mother...plenty of time for Dad to have taken custody issues to court then.

Dad's not been very serious about wanting and actually obtaining 24/7 custody. Tossing up one's arms and whining 'there is nothing I can do' and complaining about an hours drive...that pretty much wraps up how serious Dad has been until perhaps very recently about thinking his son belongs with him on a fulltime basis. At any time within these 8 yrs Dad could have and should have approached a courtroom .

Yes, I think if Dad is finally ready to take responsibility for (something he should have done years ago but instead let it all slide and let the grandparents do all the heavy work) the child he should approach court for his due rights. But at the time Amber first posted Dad and her were moving in with each other and it would be Amber now rearing child...something at time she had serious reservations over.

While I'm glad to hear Amber and BF are working out their household issues and sincerely wish them the best, Dad had better be 100% certain he is ready to take care of this child 24/7 (even if Amber walked out the door today and never came back) all by himself. If Dad wants custody fulltime he needs to be ready all by himself to drive that hour, have babysitters on working weekends, call off sick when child is ill, blah blah blah. Amber may decide she does not want to play instant mommy while Dad goes about his carefree life.

If Amber decides 6 months from now she made a mistake and takes her daughters and leaves, is Dad going to be willing and able to be that 24/7 parent. I don't particulary think it would be in child's best interest to attempt fulltime custody UNLESS father has a long term plan to care for child in the event he finds himself a bachlor and mateless. If Dad is wiling to step up and be the fulltime father the child deserves no matter what happens in Dad's relationship with Amber or if Amber poofs...then and only then should he start messing with fulltime custody.

Plenty of fathers have full custody of their children. Plenty of them raise these children all by themselves and do great jobs at fulltime parenting.

But children are not toys. Not something one takes down off the shelf and plays parent/child with once in a while. Yes, in perfect worlds they belong with parents or parent, unfortunately some parents are unwilling and/or unfit to take the responsibility. I don't believe child should be yanked around nor that custody should be taken lightly, or that each time a new mate enters one's life that the idea of 'playing family' should be raced into until or unless that parent is willing and able to make that fulltime 24/7 hour committment to the child even if new mate poofs a few months down the road.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Amber, it seems that Dad is not willing to parent, and is willing for grandparents, you etc to take care of his kid. You have no more standing than the GPs (and given the history, may have less). I find it highly unlikely, given dad's track record that he is willing to be primary caretaker of the child.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

PO1 � "I said dad should ask in COURT to have more time not ask BM. You keeps saying BM won't let him. if there is CO, she will have to let him." I understand now what you're saying. I have to ask BF what he thinks about that.

You guys have given me some things to think about.
I think BF has gone about this all wrong. When he and BM spilt up, she took off with the baby and left the son at the grandmas. Even though the kid was staying with his grandma and the grandma would let BF see his son, there was no court ordered visitation at the time. He said it took him about two years to save up the money needed to hire an attorney to get court ordered visitation in place. Then after that BF was on the standard every Wednesday every other weekend schedule most NCPs get.
About a year ago BF took BM back to court to get child support reduced. He also wanted to ask for primary custody. His attorney told him it was pretty much a lost case, since the status quo has been the kid living with his mom all this time. Even so, the BF was going to get the grandma to testify on BF�s behalf, but then she backed out at the last minute, afraid BF wouldn�t get custody even if she did testify and BM would hold it against her and not let her see the grandson. As a result, BF blames the grandma for not trying to help him get custody.

I don't know if BF could have done anything differently, maybe he's dropped the ball on custody. I think because the deck is so stacked against a father having custody of their kids a lot of men are discouraged from even trying to get custody. Even BF's own attorney told him the chances of getting custody changed were slim.

A very valid point justmetoo mentions is that having a kid full time is different from being a weekend dad. BF is a painter/handyman, so he often has to work on the weekends and evenings. I don't mind picking up the slack if he needs me to watch his son, he's helped me out plenty with my girls as well and like I said before his son is behaving far better than before. But the point of what happens if things don't work between BF and I and we break up needs to be considered.

On the one hand BF says he wants primary custody of his son, but then there are times he can�t pick his son up on Wednesdays due to his work schedule. Many times he has to work in the evenings because he's doing work in a bank and he can only do that work after hours. This is the first summer he's had his son for two weeks straight, and part of that was because he had hurt his arm really bad and couldn't work. You girls have definitely given me some things to think about.

I don't think BF is ready to go to court to ask for more time, it's a matter of money and the fact that chances for him getting more time or a change in custody seem pretty slim. I think BF gets all worked up over these situations, but actually doing something about it is another story. I do not try to talk him one way or the other, mind you, and if he wants to try for custody I will support him. But I have to let this be his decision. While BF gets worked up over situations like the one above, actually doing something about it is a different story.

I think for now we will just have to enjoy the time we do have with BF's son.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

I don't think dad makes any sense here, if he does not want to go to court to get more visitations then how is going to ask for full custody and what for? On the other hand he went to court to reduce CS yet would not go to court to get his son more? He was ready for one thing but is not ready for the other?

Also does he understand that raising a child is more expensive than paying CS? So if he wants to pay less CS how is if he expecting to raise his child full time? Does he realize it would be more expensive? Are dad's motives benefits of a child or pissing mom off?


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

"if he does not want to go to court to get more visitations then how is going to ask for full custody and what for?"
I don't think asking for more time occured to him and his attorney certainly didn't mention it as an option either. I will certainly suggest it to him.

"On the other hand he went to court to reduce CS yet would not go to court to get his son more?"
He did go to court, not only for child support but also to get primary custody. His attorney said he could get CS reduced but getting primary custody was a lost cause. The attorney did not even mention to him about just asking for more time, other than a couple more weeks during the summer.

"So if he wants to pay less CS how is if he expecting to raise his child full time? Does he realize it would be more expensive?" Yeah, I don't think he realizes this.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Amber -- more and more dad's are custodial... Just read this forum... Most are custodial ...

It is not 'status quo'. It is 2011 and whomever is in the best interest of the child is who will have custody. Sounds like grandma is in child's best interest.

Why did dad save up all that money to reduce child
Support? Sounds like there is just more to the story... In my opinion.
Lots of blame on the bm, the gma, what does dad take responsibility for? Plenty of us have had to find the means to go to court with our ex's because we want to protect our children from whatever, nothing would stop us from protecting our kids... Sounds like BF has a lot of excuses.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

"Why did dad save up all that money to reduce child
Support?"
Perhaps I'm not explaining things clearly.
BF did not save up money to reduce child support. He did it to get vistation ordered. BM moved out when the son was a baby, there was no court ordered vistation at that time. For two years BF had to sneak and see his son at the grandma's house. He had to save up money to take BM to court to get vistiation court ordered which was done when the son was about two or three.

A few years later the housing market crashed and BF's income was greatly reduced as a result. But he still continued to pay the same amount of child support. Finally, last year, when the son was about seven years old, BF took BM back to court to get child support reduced due to the decrease in his income. I might be off a little on the timeline, but that's basically what happened.

I do agree with you that being with grandma right now seems to be the best thing for the kid. She's a little batty at times, but she loves her grandson and has taken very good care of him. BM isn't a bad mom either, she just dumps the kid off at her mom's a lot, but I don't really have a problem with that.

It's just BF that's mad that the grandma gets more time than he does. I guess I'm tired of him complaining about it. Whenever I offer him advice on how to get custody of his son he tells me I don't know what I'm talking about. I try to tell him what I've learned about custody from online forums and he says I shouldn't listen to "strangers on the internet". So I have to bit my toungue and not say anything when he complains that BM isn't cutting his son's fingernails or that she's sleeping around with a lot of guys. From what I've heard neither is enough to get custody changed.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Is she sleeping with 'lots of guy's in front of her chid? Then no, she can sleep with whomever she likes as long as she is not doing the Diddy in front of her child or in same room.
When my ex and I were seeing a therapist for our daughter, he made these same comments. That I was sleeping around, 'dumping' my kid with him or with my parents, complained about child support, (yeah market is bad for him but does that mean it got better some how for me and my Dd and that her expenses had lowered some how) therapist said ex was still hanging on to old feelings and was not 'over' our divorce.... Kind of sounds a little like BF...
He just needs to get a court order for visitation so that his time is HIS time and there won't be any fighting over it or misunderstandings. If mom keeps son from him then he goes back and gets her for contempt. LOTS of pro bono lawyers. Lots of father's rights activists waiting to fight for a man. Don't listen to strangers on Internet? Meh, maybe he has a point, but maybe he just isn't that interested in fixing his problem.. Maybe when HE is ready to do something he will let you know he is ready for advice or help otherwise, tell him your sorry he is having a pitty party and you don't want to be a party pooper but you are going to go 'party' somewhere else until he stops whining.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

No, the BM is not doing anything bad in front of the kid. I think BF holds BM up to a standard of parenting he does not hold his own self to. My girl friend told me that she thinks if BF was CP, she's sure there are things he'd do or not do that he complains about BM doing. It's a lot easier to be critical of the CP when you don't have to be parent 24/7.

"Maybe when HE is ready to do something he will let you know he is ready for advice or help otherwise, tell him your sorry he is having a pitty party and you don't want to be a party pooper but you are going to go 'party' somewhere else until he stops whining."

I hear ya!! Thanks, myfampg, as always, you offer such good advice.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Amber - I think your friend has hit it dead on. I think it's easier for us as humans to criticize someone else until we actually walk a mile in their shoes. For example: when I was a young adult, I was actually very mature and handled adult situations quite well. I held a full time job while being a full time student. I was a mom to a 6 week old husky pup that was my world. Know where my husky pup is now? With my parents... She is on her very last leg and has lived a LOT longer than most dogs live. But I abandoned her when I met Mr wonderful who was allergic to dogs. My parents remind me that I'm her mommy and I 'abandoned' her ... It's kind of a joke since it's actually a dog.... Anyway - my older sister had a baby and she couldn't hold a job, jumped from one man to the other, couldn't afford daycare. Here I was a college student, working hard to pay for books and I was often helping her pay childcare. I always criticized her. Nothing she did was right or good enough in my eyes. I was often of the opinion that she didn't deserve to be his mother and I often stated that he would be better off with ME or with my parents (with my dog). It wasn't until I had a child and then became a single mom that I realized WOW what a job it is... Try keeping a job when your kid is sick all the time or when you were up all night trying to figure out how to pay childcare AND the electric bill because both are necessary. I went out with my friends a lot and I partied... My ex would throw it in my face how I was being irresponsible and he was so much better than me because he had met someone so quickly and had settled down not two months after our divorce was final. He was such a better parent than me. I never spent money out partying.. Are you kidding? I never spent a dime of my own money... Wear some make up, your tightest jeans and laugh a little and your night is free. I'm not a whore but I did have some fun 'whore-free' nights. I just didn't jump into a new relationship like my ex did because I needed to grieve that divorce and get over all of THAT but he was such a better person than me because he didn't need to grieve I guess. My point is, I was very critical of my sister because I never knew what it was like but I thought I could do it so much better. Then I found myself in her shoes and realized I am no different than her and how I dealt with it.
Then my ex criticized me for all the same things I was criticizing my sister for but alas, I still have custody and he is still the NCP -- and not for lack of trying to be custodial but because I've done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. I provide for my child. He pays child support and complains about it and the amount and that he doesn't think I spend money on my child. Whatever-- if he only knew the expenses of childcare and food and the cost to keep the house cool in 108 degree weather. Not to mention everything else.
Sounds like your BF is just miserable right now and is blaming his misery on anyone who is in the target area.

I just wouldn't let him drag you down when he gets upset with bm. Just listen, dont offer advice. When he wants it, he will ask.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

It is true more men have custody. Most men who have full custody on this forum either have BMs who gave their kids up completely, drink or do drugs, dad always had kids full time, kids were at least half time with dads, moms left their kids at dad, mom is neglectful or abusive etc

I don't know any cases where kids lived full time with mom, mom took care of them (no cases of neglect or abuse), dad sees them EOW then dad goes to court asks for full custody and gets it. No judge would give him a kid full time just because. They won't uproot the kid for no reason.

I think it is OK to ask for more time with his son, he might get it. He won't get full custody


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Thanks for sharing that myfampg. You are right it is easy to criticize someone when you don�t know what they are going through or have to deal with.

"I just wouldn't let him drag you down when he gets upset with bm." I will just be a supportive GF for him, and ignore the griping.

"I don't know any cases where kids lived full time with mom, mom took care of them (no cases of neglect or abuse), dad sees them EOW then dad goes to court asks for full custody and gets it. No judge would give him a kid full time just because. They won't uproot the kid for no reason."
Yep, I know this. I think BF is starting to realize this as well.


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

Myfam, my ex tried to say the same stuff. Difference was that I didn't go out at all. So it doesn't matter if you go out a little, go out a lot, they will try to smear your name.

Funny that they think:

it's not that I'm a jerk, it's that you're a slut...

yeah... keep thinking that mister...


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RE: Grandparents get to see son more than BF does

HA! That's funny silversword! Ds11 sperm donor and his family are ALWAYS calling me a whore. That's their favorite name for me. But here I am married almost 10 years to the same man... again, I'm only 32.... and he's got 5 kids with 4 moms that he doesn't take care of and who knows how many women he was with that didn't produce a kid.... or how many other kids he has out there that he knows nothing about. It's just men being jerks and wanting to blame someone for their misery.


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