it should say first lieing NOW brutally honest

What does dad think?

With my DD she can't do anything until the homework is done. Period. That means... no TV, no playing, no sports, no music, no nothing. If she doesn't do it the night before, she has to do it in the morning. If it's not done by the end of the week, she's in her room, no toys.

The thing is, homework isn't really *that* important, IMO. What is important is time management and learning the process. We all have to do things we don't want to do. The trick is training the kids into realizing the payoff from doing the work is worth it.

I wouldn't take food away, although when dd says she doesn't feel like it I do say things like:

We all have jobs in this family. Mine is to go to work and bring home a paycheck so I can pay the mortgage, put gas in the car, put food in our bellies and pay for activities. I also clean the house and drive you to your activities. Your job is to go to school, do your work, and play with your friends. Your job at home is to keep your personal items together, keep your body clean, and help with chores. Your main job is to be the best "you" that you can be.

Doing things we don't "feel" like doing is part of life. I drive you places even when I'm tired. Dad cooks dinner when he'd rather eat a PBJ in front of the television. It's a part of life.

Do your homework, and you will get privileges, like playing outside with your friends after school, going with them to the roller rink if invited, etc. Your options will open up. And when you get older, you will find that the more you study, the more options open up for you in life.

You don't do your homework, you will spend a lot of time sitting around. You might as well do it, and then you can do something else. It could have been done already.

we have the same rules for homework so you would think they would just get it done. It is not that I was actually going to take a food away... I was more going for the shock value. We have given the same speeches more times than I can even count. Dad is more frustrated than I am. He is almost to the point of giving up. It has been a battle all year long.

I am a wrong person to ask for advice on this, i never bothered with DD's homework. It is your homework, you do or you don't. I know it is somewhat unusual approach to parenting, maybe it was wrong of me, don't know.

At 14 they know natural consequences, DD knew no homework leads to bad grades, bad grades lead to not getting to good college, no homework leads to lack of practice and low SAT score that again no good college etc etc Still she sometimes didn't do homework and didn't get good grades, oh well.

As about lying, DD lied few times about grades, I told her if she says the truth I might have an idea how to fix things, if she lies I will not know, and won't be able to give some good suggestions until it is too late. "Oh makes sense" she said...And I also learned that she would lie to make sure i don't get horribly upset. If i don't get upset, she has no reason to lie. I don't have to jump up and down happy for her failures but no needs to go overboard upset or angry. Kids lie when they know parents get angry or upset.

Maybe your kids start seeing natural consequence: they did poorly so now they are in summer school, maybe that would teach them? If you do well, you can play outside not sit in summer school.

By that same reasoning PO1 did you not do her laundry either? Kids will learn the natural consequences of not having clean clothes.

I get what you're saying age-wise, but I think kids need structure. Also, they have an agreement with their teacher, it's part of their schooling.

I think it's better to hold your children to their word. Everyone else will. Or they won't. I guess it depends what you want for your child.

yes but we are not talking about a few low grades or the occasional not doing homework. One ss failed and the other barely passed. At one point I found out younger ss had 10 zeros in math. That worked out to be three weeks of lieing about homework.

Silvers, why does it surprise that kids do their homework without supervision? Of course kids need structure and DD had one, otherwise she wouldn't grow up and become successful, my DD23 is adult with 4-year degree with honors, professional job, lives independently and plans on obtaining advanced degree. DD responded well to verbal explanation why homework and why not lying is important.

If I had a child who needed constant supervision and monitoring as well as homework done with her, it would be a different story. That's why I said I am wrong person to ask for advice to that regard. But I had an advice how to explain to kids why lying and not doing homework is counterproductive because it leads to natural consequences. I was successful in explaining it. DD did not want natural consequences.

As about your laundry question I don't understand it. When DD was little I did her laundry because she would not be able to do it herself properly due to young age, when she grow older she did her own laundry.

I hope you are not suggesting that unless parents sit next to their children, children aren't capable on doing homework. Then either homework is not age appropriate or children have issues that need to addressed.

PO1, I never said it "surprise that kids do their homework without supervision". Honestly I'm not even sure what you mean by that. And I'm not suggesting " that unless parents sit next to their children, children aren't capable on doing homework".

My point is: if your kid does homework and is on a good path, good for you. Sounds like you succeeded PO1. Yay you.

If your kid is off track, like OP... It may be time to really crack down. That's it.

mom of 4, does kids' school have any type of after school homework help?

We have formal homework assistance for students who wouldn't do homework otherwise. After they sign up, they must attend an hour after school, they must do homework, there are teachers to help, teacher signs what kind of homework was done etc Even if they do next or no homework at home one hour after school would count for something. Plus there are other kids out there. We have kids who know they would not do anything at home so they ask to be signed up for assistance. Does your school have anything like that? Would that help?

And I do no recall your family situation but where are mom and dad in all this, why are you the one dealing with this???

we had them in after school help but courtesy of not doing their work and their low grades they had to work on the computer to try and improve past grades and then still had regular homework to do at home. I am the primary caretaker so I deal with it the most. Dad deals with it but he is ready to give up. Mom maintains a states of denial, lets them do whatever they want and doesnt believe that they lie to her.

I see...is the older one in high school or starts? he will have ride awakening when he'll see that failed classes will lead to lose of credit and being held back and not graduating on time with everyone else. Huge incentive for some...

also do they like any sports? if the want to be on a team they have to maintain certain GPA, it is very important for many boys. Just trying to come up with natural consequences of their lack of effort, something that might push them right direction on their own rather "do your homework because mom said so". It never works in a long run.

also do they have positive role model in regards to education, like "look daddy did well in school and now he does XYZ in life..."

we had them in after school help but courtesy of not doing their work and their low grades they had to work on the computer to try and improve past grades and then still had regular homework to do at home. I am the primary caretaker so I deal with it the most. Dad deals with it but he is ready to give up. Mom maintains a states of denial, lets them do whatever they want and doesnt believe that they lie to her.

mom of 4 you posted the same message, did you mean to post something else?

for some reason gw posted it twice...

I am the positive role model for school. Both mom and dad dropped out and ended up going to get their ged. I graduated with honors and went on to college. We also use their aunt (dads sister) as a positive role model because she did the same as I...graduated with honors and went on to college.
Both are in middle school right now. This will be ss14 last year in middle school. We have tried the sports incentive because they both want to play but it doesnt seem to sink in and now with our district in huge financial straights sports are being cut left and right. So there wont be much of an incentive for that in the coming year.

Oh boy, you are right about sports. I hope maybe they wake up when they hit high school, some kids mature later. actually middle school is a joke, kids could fail classes and still move on and much work they do is busy work. I think most middle school curriculum just sucks.

sounds like mom and dad don't value education much...I feel for you

dad does value it... he just had a hard time growing up and no one in his corner. That is one of his biggest speeches "I never had help growing up. You guys have all the help you could ask for and you just plain arent doing your work. It is unacceptable. There is no excuse for it." They can't fail classes here and still move on. that is why ss12 is in summer school. Otherwise he will be repeating 6th grade.

oh i see, that's good DH gives the speech about his experience, plus summer school...maybe it is going to click, by the way what a tough age...12-14