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didi_2009

Birth mom behavior

didi_2009
14 years ago

Husband and I have been married 8 yrs., he has 3 adult children and I have 2. Have had difficulties with BM in the past with very controlling behavior on her part, but it had settled down some as my SC have gotten older, moved out of town, etc. My 29 yo SD has a very dependent personality and tends to do what her mom or her bf(boyfriend) tell her, and is very afraid of conflict. She informed us this past summer that her mom wants her to get engaged and wants her and her bf to buy a house. She told us her mom said that "me and your dad will give you the down payment for a house as an engagement present". At the time her dad and I expressed surprise that her mother would tell her we would be giving her money for a house when it hadn't even been discussed with us. My SD expressed mild surprise too, but does not confront her mother about anything. BM has a financial background and believes she knows best about finances as well as what is best for her children. BM is strongly pushing for SD to buy a house before the end of the year. SD's bf does not like BM but is in agreement about the financial importance of buying a house before the end of the year, and now he is also pushing SD to start looking for houses.

I'm finding the more this comes up, the more stressed I feel. I have talked to husband about it and aired my conflicted feelings. We have always wanted to be able to help our children financially. However, 1)we didn't think through that we might have kids buying houses while we still have two kids (my kids) in college (my ex not paying for anything for multiple reasons), and 2) I'm really peeved about BM "deciding" we will help with down payment. We don't know what we can do yet financially, and if we can help, we would like to get some pleasure out of it. I am concerned that if we give the down payment as BM has decided we should do, we will simply be letting her know that telling us what to do works. This is not new behavior and not simply directed at us. BM tells all her kids what to do, but is most successful with telling SD what to do. SD does not set limits with her mother at all and tries to view it as simply her parents not getting along. In addition, while my husband is verbally in agreement with my reluctance to give SD money under the circumstances, my experience in the past has been that he often (but not always) backs down in the end. I do realize it might be very uncomfortable for him to not help SD with money down when BM and most likely bf's parents are also helping. I also feel somewhat guilty in that when we married my ex was paying child support and helping with other financial stuff for my kids, but it has fallen on the two of us to pay for my kid's college and most of their other expenses the past few years.

I'm looking for ideas on whether I should see what happens, let this go, push to not give SD the money so ex gets the message this type of behavior won't work (keep in mind there will also be a wedding to deal with), or disengage and accept my husband has to deal with it how he wants?

Comments (151)

  • organic_maria
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bottom line on this topic is
    1. BM IS OUT OF LINE FOR
    A. TALKING ABOUT THE SUBJECT TO HER ADULT DAUGHTER
    B. TALKING ABOUT MONEY THAT IS NOT HERS TO DECIDE TO WITH
    C. VOLUNTEERING SAID MONEY THAT IS NOT HERS OR ANY OF HER BUSINESS .
    2. The money is TOGETHER with DH and said SM on this matter., then SM HAS THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT SHE PLEASES WITH THAT MONEY AND HAS A SAY IN WHERE IT WILL GO. IF its together.
    If the money is solely saved by the father in this, its HIS business what he will do with it.
    He may decide to ditch both his exwifes demands and his current wifes demands as well.
    No one is entitled to money for education or a house. NO ONE!
    Bottom line. ITS NOT BM'S BUSINESS TO VOLUNTEER OR TALK ABOUT ANYONES MONEY BUT HER OWN. SHE SHOULD STUFF HER MOUTH ANDSAY, I'LL GIVE YOU MONEY FOR THE DOWNPAYMENT. ITS UP TO YOUR FATHER WHAT GIFT HE WILL GIVE YOU.
    BUt noooooooooooo, being a control freak that she is, she say 'oh both father and i will do the downpayment' HELLOOOOOO people.
    ITS NOT HER MONEY.
    Eveyrone here just focuses right away on SM's wishes but totally disregards how BM here has completely stepped out of line.
    And anyone who defends bm's actions by saying she's protecting her daughter is soooooo full of it. This is such a control issue, evne over her own daughter , its so blatanntly obvious.
    So please stop with the BS on this topic and get a grip some people. Its not her right or business to speak to her daughter in such a pushy manner and make a decisionon a downpayment of a house wiht someone else money but her own. To top it off, sd doesn't seem to want to buy a house yet and i dont care how good BM is wiht finances, she should not coerce her child into buying if said child wants nothing part of it.
    Anyways....DIDI? where are you? What has happended?
    THis blog is getting very long and i've yet ot see any response from you.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Organic - you ignore -- if dad and sm have not combined money, or if they are on the surface combined, yet most is from dad, he will likely have have some feelings that are less than positive about funding the stepmom's kids college and then not helping his kid with a house.

    The stepmom brigade can trumpet loud and clear that mom should not have input, but that wont change dads feelings or SMs guilt.

    Bottem line -- if you marry for money you will earn every penny. I didnt raise my DD to marry for money -- thats Dads SO that lives by that credo. Yes, her dad and I agreed as to funding of college, cars, etc and if he earns enough he should provide extras. If I have to prod him, thats life. Supporting SM in luxury or her kids is evidence that he can through some $$ to his own child.

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  • organic_maria
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No kkny , i was the first to state about the combined money issue at hand if you didn't read my posts. I also stated that if the money is solely dads then its up to dad to do what he wants. WHICH MEANS ITS NOT BM'S BUSINES OR SM'S BUSINESS..ITS HIS MONEY.
    ANd you have overlooked the main issue on this post. The fact that bm told her sd...or that is what sd is saying...so we dont even know if that is a fact..that her mom said 'dad and i will do a downpayment'
    Who said anything here about sm guilt or dad's feelings?> The original post clearly states that Sd said what Bm said to her and its obvious SM wants her dh to fork up some cash for college funds. Now, that being said. didi has not provided us with some detail here. WHy would she expect her dh to dish out cash for her kids. I agree with you on one thing kkny, that its up to her and her ex husband to provide for her kids for college. Not up to her current dh. BUt with the way didi wrote it, there is something behind her expectation. Ie, the money is joined, her money and her dh, maybe she provided cahs for his kids college. So its a vicer versa deal with them.
    Bottom line here. Kkny , This bm spoke about money that is not hers and not hers to do with as she pleases. Its not her business what her ex husband does with his cash. PERIOD.
    I have not ignored any circumstance like you have stated above whatsoever.
    I am a fair person and clearly stated that if the money is not combined, its not sm's business or bm business to demand anything from said hubby. Its up to sm and her ex hubby to provide for her kids.
    So dont make me look like an evil stepmom..oh forgot..i'm also a BM and a stepchild. Dont forget that. I've seen many facets to these stepissues. In the end, if you are a good human being, who is fair, sharing loving and honest, not vindictive , not controlling and honestly cares about eveyrone around you, not one would have these issues in stepfamilies...oh but i forgot...we are all human...and many are idiots out there along with the smart intelligent ones.
    BM in this case was out of line. You can't blatantly defend her can you???? You honestly want me to sit back and read people defend this bm for butting her big fat nose into her daughters business and top it off talk about money that is not hers???? Are you for real?
    Who said anyone married for money here kkny. Your exhusband has that issue and its obvious you have a money issue. I'm just talking about what is fair and what is reality. The reality here is that this bm is talkingabout cash that is not hers and not her business to say that to her daughter whats so ever.
    Cause if i was in that situation and my sd said that in front of me, i would quickly and swiftly tell her that its not her mother right or business to say anything about where your dad's money will go. Especially if my money is combined. Your damn right i will have a say where it goes and i would be the first one in line to tell BM to stick it where the sun dont shine.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I am a fair person and clearly stated that if the money is not combined, its not sm's business or bm business to demand anything from said hubby. Its up to sm and her ex hubby to provide for her kids. "

    I dont know how you define "combine" -- but my guess is many SMs define as I put my paycheck in teh pot, DH puts his (even if lots bigger), and thats one pot. My guess -- dad knows better, and thats why he gives in when mom wants more for her kdis.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I am a fair person and clearly stated that if the money is not combined, its not sm's business or bm business to demand anything from said hubby. Its up to sm and her ex hubby to provide for her kids. "

    I dont know how you define "combine" -- but my guess is many SMs define as I put my paycheck in the pot, DH puts his (even if lots bigger), and thats one pot. My guess -- dad knows better, and thats why he gives in when mom wants more for her kdis.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please dont acuse me of being fixated on money -- I am not the one who married a guy who expects him to pay for my kids tuition.

    I am expecting OP to come back and say oh yes we share, one pot etc. But that she has taken so long -- my guess is the pot is filled with mostly her DHs money.

    Somehow, when mom is sticking up for kids, it is about control, etc and dad has the right to decide where his money goes. How much of this is a mask for SM wants money for her or her kids??? Please dont acuse me of being the mercnary one.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ** My guess is mom is guessing that the DH is paying at least part of his steps college and is trying to see that his kids do not take it on the chin.

    ** Dotz, it really doesnt matter what you and I think -- my guess is DH thinks he should do more for his kids -- depending on his relationship with the steps he may or may not regard them as his kids. My guess is there will be strife in household over this. My guess is also teh DH resents his stepkids dad not stepping up to the plate.

    **Its not how we veiw it -- its how OPs DH does. My guess is, as she said, he wants to help his kids, but that the OPs kids tuition is an issue. OP and her kids will be reminding him of that regularly. So the mom should be sticking up for her kids.

    My guess is even though OP says it is bothering her more than her DH that her kids father wont pay -- OPs DH is just silent, and wants to avoid a discussion. But my guess is he doesnt think is fair.

    **I dont know how you define "combine" -- but my guess is many SMs define as I put my paycheck in teh pot, DH puts his (even if lots bigger), and thats one pot. My guess -- dad knows better, and thats why he gives in when mom wants more for her kdis.

    ** my guess is the pot is filled with mostly her DHs money.

    For someone that has taken a position.. you sure guess about a lot! You assume so many facts not given... dad makes more money.. the pot has mostly dad's money.. that dad is afraid to upset his wife... WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL CR@P!

    It's funny that I thought about this happening in MY situation. SD is 10. My son is 20, my daughter 19. Let's say in 10 years time, SD is in college.. living with us and my son or daughter is 29-30 and want to buy a house. So, what you are saying is that if SD needs help with college, and her mom.. who is now 36, 46 by then and has never held a real job and probably won't be able to take care of herself, let alone help pay for SD to go to college.. and if DH hasn't paid off all his debt or if he loses his job and can't pay for SD's college... that it's tough sh!t for SD. No college honey! Meanwhile, I can use MY money to fund a down payment for my kids.. oh yeah, and I can tell my son that his dad will pay the other half of his down payment. I don't need to check with him or his wife... forget that he has three kids with her. Who cares if he has it or not? Who cares if he wants to contribute or not? Our son is HIS son and it's HIS responsibility to pay what I think he should. I'm only standing up for my kid... who cares how it affects him or anyone else!!!

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What we DO know is that OP says she feels guilty. Why would she feel guilty if she were pulling her own weight? I think you are ignoring the obvious.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dang! I feel guilty that SD needs counseling and neither of her parents can afford it right now... so I quit going to the chiropractor so she can get the counseling she needs because her mom is putting her through hell, just because she doesn't want to pay the $216 in child support... let alone helping out with her counseling! So, really I shouldn't feel bad for her. I shouldn't care, it's not MY problem, right? I should go get my back adjusted so I am not in pain and let her parents worry about her and if they can't afford it, too bad little girl... should've gotten luckier in the parent lottery! It's not MY fault your mom doesn't care how much everything she's doing is hurting you... I guess I shouldn't care either. After all, she's not even my kid.

    Guilty? I guess my husband may feel guilty because he lost his health insurance so now we have to pay the full cost of her counseling. He might even feel guilty that he can't get through to her mother and express to the mom how much their daughter is suffering, mom doesn't want to hear it. He may even feel guilty that I ache and have trouble sleeping sometimes because I am working two jobs, one is pretty physical and I have a bad back... but I do it because I want our life to be better. I do it because we have his daughter to support because her mother refuses to.

    We (DH & I) can sit around all day and point fingers at who's right or who's wrong, but how does that help? Yes, he was wrong to accumulate a lot of debt. Yes, his ex should pay her fair share of raising SD. No, I shouldn't have to work two jobs so we can live comfortably. My kids should have gotten the support they were entitled to growing up and I should have had help. There are so many should have, could have or would have's and the bottom line is that we do what we do and the goal is for everyone to have a good life. We prioritize and in my opinion, a 12 year old that needs braces is more important than a 20 year old that wants/needs a car, a 19 year old that needs help with college is more important than a 29 year old that wants a house. A 10 year old that needs counseling is more important than a 40 year old that needs a back adjustment, regardless of relationship or who should be paying for it. If that were the case, my SD would never have new clothes, she would not get a birthday party, and a lot of other extra things that are provided that her parent's can't afford right now.

    Yeah, her dad feels guilty but her mom sure doesn't. Either way, it's MY choice to do what I want with MY money and I would very much resent any of the fathers of my kids to call me up and tell me that I need to be spending my money on anything other than what I choose to spend it on. I sure would be downright angry if they went behind my back and told one of my kids that I was gonna buy them anything... without asking me first, just because they don't think I should be paying for things SD needs because she has two parents. It's nobody's business but MINE.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I also feel somewhat guilty in that when we married my ex was paying child support and helping with other financial stuff for my kids, but it has fallen on the two of us to pay for my kid's college and most of their other expenses the past few years. "

    I think it is pretty clear what OP feel guilty about. And I feel for her -- she's not in a great situation. Ima, this isn't your situation -- no one is asking SM to pay for SDs things.

    You have raised kids without much hlep from their biofathers. I am certain that hasnt been easy. But just becuase you did it doesnt make it right. Every child has two parents. If you advise every SM that her DH should do as little as possible, my guess is there will be conflict. A man that will help with his Stepkids college will do more than he has to for his own kids. My guess is OP realizes all this.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think my situation is much different than OP's.. only reversed. DH would be in SM's shoes... basically needs my help with raising SD because SD's BM is basically useless. My kids are grown.. just as OP's DH's kids are grown. and while no one asked me to pay for SD's things, where do you get that OP has asked her husband to pay for anything for her kids? They live together and she relies on his income the way my husband relies on mine. If one of my adult kids came along and wanted me to fund something significant, it would take away from our life as we have become accustom to living... it would affect him and his daughter, just as it would affect OP and her kids.

    It's not all that different at all. My SD has two parents too. Should I wash my hands because it's MY money and sock it away to give to my kids? Well, if that's what I want to do, then I should! If I want to donate it all to the SPCA, then I can do that too. Nobody has a right to tell me what to do with MY money. That is the point! and that is the issue that you have been avoiding all along by deflecting to what you think dad should do or what you guess SM wants him to do, etc. You are ignoring the obvious that BM was wrong to tell her kid that dad will do this or that, when she didn't even discuss it with dad.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How do you know the OP Stepchild's mother is useless?? It sounds like she is chipping in? I didnt ignore the obvious -- that the mom is pushy -- but your ignoring the other part of this. We can all deal with pushy people -- I suspect the OPs DH has problems dealing because he's getting pulled on all sides --

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I didn't say OP's stepchild's mother is useless.. I said MY SD's mother is useless. OP says her ex does not help.

    About her child's father, she said

    "I strongly agree that the responsibility for my kids college should be handled by me and my ex. I don't want to spend time on this part of the issue as it could be a whole other post. Because of things that have happened in his life, my ex isn't worth taking to court because he doesn't own anything. But do we feel used-absolutely. I think it bothers me even more than my DH."

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Silver -- of course it is easier for you to talk to someone you are married to. Duhh. "

    Well, now that's mature...

  • doodleboo
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "yet most is from dad"

    Yet again KKNY, you don't know this. It isn't uncommon as you think for the woman to make more money these days.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Doodle, I agree many women make more money these days, but according to the census bureau, men usually make more. And again, that OP feels guilty about the money situation -- why would she feel guilty if she earned more -- by the amount of her kids college expenses??

  • doodleboo
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I feel guilty that I can't put the girls in Ballet KKNY. I make the most money in our family. You can be the bread winner and still have guilt about the financial situation....I am living proof.

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there's a gross disparity here. Stepmothers are expected to treat stepkids as their own, not play favorites, drive them around to their activities (since everyone knows it's the female who does these things while the male is making the paycheck). But Stepmoms should never expect that the finances should go to pay for them or their bio-kids at all. Because money is more valuable than time, energy and effort.

    I think there is a value judgment going on here and I don't like it. Because assumptions are made that the male in the family must be making more the female must be taking advantage. What about the females who juggle work, children, house and activities? Even though the male may be making more, does that mean he contributes more to the household? This takes me right back to the '50's where "womens work" is undervalued and underappreciated.

    I personally work very hard, and am not taking advantage of my husband's paycheck at all. I did not marry him so he could take care of me or my daughter financially. We both feel that the children in our lives are the children in our family. I tell people I have two daughters, one of my womb and one of my heart.

    Perhaps the males are taking advantage of the females... they get additional children that they are not responsible for and therefore do not have to expend energy on discipline but can just enjoy the childhood. They don't have to take responsibility for paying for activities or driving them to activities. They don't have to be on any emergency paperwork. They don't have to pay for higher education or down payments or anything "further". Yet they have a chauffeur, chef, personal trainer, nurse, babysitter, maid etc... for themselves and their child(ren).

    I feel guilty that I can't do more with my daughter because I work so many hours. I feel guilty that I can't do a lot of things for her and with her. I feel guilty that I can't fly my SD out more often, or go to see her more often. I feel guilty about a lot of things.

    I'm guessing the OP feels guilty because her children are taking more financially than the other children are at this point in time. That can shift, and I'm sure it will. What about when the s-kids have babies? Then there will be gifts galore, and help, and all sorts of things that the other kids in college won't get. Is that fair? Should SM not babysit her step-grandkids because she should be working harder to pay for the college of her kids?

    There is a very exacting rule that I'm sensing here, and it makes me uncomfortable.

  • finedreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is useless to bring our own situations for comparisson, of course we all do it and it is tempting, but it is useless (and i am guilty of it too). We can only judge by this particular situation and this particular post. What is hapenning in our own families is not that relevant.

    if other women raised their children without father's help, it doesn't mean that everyone should be doing it or if some people cannot help adult children, it doesn't mean everyone shouldn't.

    We do not know who makes more but we do know that SM wants DH to help her kids wiht college and feels guilty about it, she worries if he will help his daughter wiht the house, then her kids will get less for college. It all sounds very bad, it is OK for her to feel this way and vent here.

    i mean i wish somebody does XYZ for me LOL i wish i don't have huge graduate loan to pay back, i wish i had a sugar daddy LOL (no i really don't) or anyone to pay for me, but it is a bit strange to assume we all have to have what we want.

    SM can take parent loan and help kids wiht college if dad refuses. rather strange to expect stepdad to do it. nice if he can. but expecting? parent loan is available for her any time.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "What is hapenning in our own families is not that relevant."

    It is relevant if it forms our opinions on what we write in response to someone else's post. Otherwise, nobody should ever post anything here... don't ask for advice or opinions on your problems because nobody else here is in the exact same situation so it's not relevant? Is that what you mean?

    GW will have to shut down!

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No I think what FD means is that every family is different. And to apply rules that work for some step families may be unfair when transported to others -- especially with variables such as how old kids were when parents were married, how much parents earn, etc.

  • nivea
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Silversword, I agree a lot with your last post but I see it from a different spin. There is no doubt it is not easy being a SM.

    But take a look at most of these posts, I'm not talking the usual disclaimers here. But posts like this one. This is not just about BM's being controlling, it is SM's too. If this SM did not have the expectation that her childrens education should be paid by Stepdad, I doubt this issue would even be a minor problem. No, it is not right that BM said that to SD, but we really have *no* idea the context of how it was said, whether the terms were already agreed upon. We just have no idea.

    Where I grew up, paying for your childs college and downpayments with houses and stuff is the norm. I can definitely see any divorced couple I know having a discussion with the child and saying we will help you blah blah blah. I know there are many on this board that come from a different train of thought that college should be paid by the child or whatever, but it is funny to me the vast difference when it comes to stepmoms child lol.

    We DO know that this Stepmom expects her new husband to pay her childrens education and this is somehow tangled with Dad helping his daughter with a downpayment for a house. And no, I'm not saying BM has a right to discuss with SD without Dad, but when I weigh the two SM expecting her child/childrens college paid by Stepdad and BM telling SD Dad will also help, BM's doesn't come out nearly as controlling as this SM's.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "No I think what FD means is that every family is different. And to apply rules that work for some step families may be unfair when transported to others -- especially with variables such as how old kids were when parents were married, how much parents earn, etc."

    While that may be true... your opinion seems to be based on assumptions based on your experiences... BM has custody ~ not always true. BM wants what's best for kids ~ not always true. Men make more money than women ~ not always true. Parent should pay for college ~ not always true. If dad doesn't see his kids as much as he should, it's because SM is controlling him ~ not always true. I don't always see you applying variables to your advice or opinions.

    We DO NOT know that she expects her new husband to pay for her children's education nivea. We DO know that her children are in college and he helps pay for it and if he has to pay a down payment on a house for his child, then it will affect OP's children that are already in college. She is understandably worried about that.. just as she may worry about him being able to pay their regular bills if they were barely making it, etc. We don't know what their arrangement is but we do know she has a 'concern'. That's hardly saying that she expects him to pay for her child's education. She didn't say "No way, that's not happening!", but they would like to help with it, but it comes unexpectedly while her kids are in college and she did say it also takes the joy out of giving to be told to do it. The issue here is that the ex wife told their child something without discussing it with dad. Even if they discussed it 10 years ago when they were married.. or 29 years ago when their daughter was born... circumstances have changed. They are no longer married and nobody can decide for another what the other person will do! It would be a different story altogether if BM called Dad and said, remember when DD was a baby we agreed to pay her down payment... and push from that angle. But to unilaterally decide that he will do it and tell her so.. now at least 8 years after they've been divorced is so utterly beyond wrong.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima, OP said "but it has fallen on the two of us to pay for my kid's college and most of their other expenses the past few years. " - I dont see how that can be intretped other than Dad will be or has been paying for his stepkids college. Only a contorted interpretation gets you any other place.

    Where I live it is not uncommon for parents to help with college and down payments (as OP suspects her SDs BF's parents will) - similiar to Nivea. I suspect a correlation betwen paying for college and down payments.

    I think SM expecting dad to help with her kids college is either indicative that dad has a lot of money or that SHE is overreaching.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Its incredible on another thread how Ima dumps on women for being dependent on a man -- and yet here it is OK for SM to get dad to pay for HER kids college. And whether she "expects" it or not, HE IS PAYING. This is about as dependent on a man as it gets, and he is not even their dad. I guess it is ok to be dependent on a man for help with kids when he is your current husband, but not when he is your child's father.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I think SM expecting dad to help with her kids college is either indicative that dad has a lot of money or that SHE is overreaching."

    My DH does not make a lot of money.. at least not more than I do. We are not well off but I do expect that my son will be able to go to college and if it takes contributing by my DH, then yes I do expect him to sacrifice and/or contribute because in our situation, if my husband were not in the picture, my son would qualify for financial aid but since my husband's income disqualifies him, then it should not fall on me to pay more because of my husband's income. We do not know OP's entire situation or her arrangement with her DH. Going after a bio father to pay for college or weddings or down payments on house or car is not something that can be done legally in many states. In CA, a father is not obligated for anything unless there is a written agreement. Morally, yes dad's should help... as should mom's. Legally, not much can be done.

    For the most part, my husband & I pool our money. We decide how to spend it.. vacations, vehicles, major purchases, etc. When one of the kids needs something, we don't say "well, it's your kid so you need to figure out how to pay it". We might do that if we had separate finances and only put our share of bill money into the bill account, but we don't. We rely on each other's income to meet our living standard that WE have grown accustom to and anything.. braces for his daughter, counseling for his daughter, a court battle brought on by his ex, college for my son, my daughter's car breaking down or needing tires, or any of the other things that happen in life... we are a team and we worry about solving the current problems by prioritizing the problems, not prioritizing who's kid deserves such & such.

    I asked my husband about this thread... he told me he would be livid if his ex told their daughter that he was going to do anything for her or buy her anything.. he says if he is going to do something, he'll decide and he'll tell her. LOL, he says that would be like telling his daughter that her mom is going to pick her up instead of grandma... he can't make her do it and it will only hurt his daughter when BM says no I'm not.

    and no, it's not really okay to be dependent on someone else financially... but realistically when you share finances or living expenses, you get accustom to a standard of living that you might not be able to have if you were alone. My husband could live without my income, I could live without his.. but our standard would go down on both sides.. his would go down more since he has much more debt than I do.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima, IMHO it is the bioparents responsiblity to provide for college for their kids, whether they are married or not. At the time of divorce, college should be on the table. In can be couched in objective terms, such as B average in HS, public in-state college. It is outrageous when parents dont deal with this. Especially parents who themselves went to college.

    Yes, negotiating divorce, etc. is not easy. But ignoring college to get everything you want is, imho, the same as using CS for a face lift. You are ignoring your child's needs and putting yourself first.

  • shannon2356
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Husband and I have been married 8 yrs., he has 3 adult children and I have 2." and "My 29 yo SD.."

    If the OP and her DH have been married for 8 years, and her SD is 29, if we do the math, the OP,who is also the StepMom of her DH's 3 biokids, has also helped to put her DH's biokids thru college and is not married to her DH because he is a "meal-ticket" for her and her kids. (29 years old - 8 years that DH and SM have been married = SD was 21 years old when they got married, that's college age, right?!...:)

    The OP is asking why the BM has the right to "wants (SD) to get engaged and wants her and her bf to buy a house. (SD) told us her mom said that "me and your dad will give you the down payment for a house as an engagement present". The issue is with BM trying to control the DH and the SM's financial contribution. If BM wants to contribute, no one is stopping her. If DH and SM want to contribute, and it sounds like they DO, but on THEIR terms, that's up to them. It's a control/manipulation/abuse issue, not a "SM/OP has married for money, bad bad SM!!" issue.

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In some parts of Canada stepparents are financially responsible for their stepchildren.

  • finedreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "If the OP and her DH have been married for 8 years, and her SD is 29, if we do the math, the OP,who is also the StepMom of her DH's 3 biokids, has also helped to put her DH's biokids thru college"

    we do not know that. she never told us that she paid for his kids education. we do not even know if they went to college. Plus if SD was 21 and they just got married you canot possibly say she paid for SD's college.

  • finedreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    silverswood, there is a big difference between being responsible for food on the table for minor stepkids or medical care and the other is expect to pay college tuition. Even biological parents cannot be legally forced to pay tuiton, how do you make stepparent to pay tuition?

    We had threads after threads arguing that there is no such thing as having to pay for kids education and kids turn 18 they pretty much on their own. And there were only few of us who said that parents do have moral obligation to help. Now all of a sudden it is reversed. the only difference was that we were talking about dad's kids before and now it is SM's kids. Rules don't apply here.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    FD, OP (didi) did say her DH put his colleges through college. Not we, he.

    Did SM marry for money? Partially. I doubt even she can decide. Woman meets man, man sees beuatiful woman, woman sees man drving nice car, takes her out to nice restaruants. He says to himself how pretty and nice she is; she says how nice and gracious he is. End of day -- is he marrrying her for her looks, and she for his money -- in part? Whose to say. But regardless, they are now married. Do I think OP expected her DH to shoulder her kids college?, no she expected her X to. But either she had no backup plan orher backup plan was for DH to pay. When we talk about stepkids being responsile, I think SMs have to be responsible too -- or recognize they will create more friction.

  • shannon2356
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kkny, you are right about that, I thought I saw somewhere that his kids had been to college. Fine dreams, I knew I had seen it somewhere!!

    "Both DH and I have a desire to help all of the kids. DH did put his kids through college, so there is no animosity there between S-kids and mine. The problem is not that we don't want to help, but we don't want to be told we have to help and the timing of when they will need this money is difficult in relation to other current expenses we have."

    Maybe we could better understand the OP's points and her upset feelings over this situation if we step back and stop pointing fingers (ie.stating that the OP partially married for money, etc...) We don't know this, it's not a fact. BM's and SM's are PEOPLE, human beings. Let's put it into perspective, and try to flip the dilemma around. Instead of it being the BM who is saying to SD "me and your dad will give you the down payment for a house as an engagement present", let's replace the name "BM" with "SM". If SM tells SD to tell BM that DH (SD's Dad) and BM will give the downpayment for a house as an engagement present, how does that make people feel?...

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Shannon, I don't see why it is Dad's responibiltiy to provide college or a downpayment for kids that aren't his. Apparently the SMs think dad should pay for stepkids. Thats life -- different people regard things differently. I think SMs are only kidding themselves that this wont create strife.

    My poll of friends and family think unless the stepkids have been living with dad since around age 2, that would be unusual, and most of the men I know say that they might pay, but be resentful and be silent but regard it a cost of keeping the peace. One of my neighbors did pay some for SD, but only at a public school, while his kids went to private school, and then name private universities. The mom said she didnt understand how schools worked -- I guess she didnt learn that much working the beauty counter at Bloomies. But at least he paid for the first two years for SD. They are now divorced, so he is no longer paying.

  • shannon2356
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kkny, I asked you to turn it around and look at it from another perspective. If the SM made the "Decision" that the BM and the DH were to pay for the SD's downpayment as an engagement gift, is that ok? You are asking the SM to make a downpayment for a kid who is not hers, what's the difference. It sounds very sexist to me. What if the BM could not afford the downpayment on the house for her daughter? Is it ok to make decisions for someone else with no discussion? Is it respectful?

    And about the DH paying for his Skids' college education, We pay for one of my SD's college tuition and books and I make more money than my DH. Their BM pays nothing. Should I feel resentful and angry, because I don't. I feel we should help SD, because she is a kid and she needs help, so we do. :)

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Its not about gender, its about whose kid it is. I beleive Bioparents should be responsible. If you chose to pay for a stepchild, your choice. I would not critize you for not paying. Here it appears that Dad will make the decision, and it is SM bemoaning that he gives in to what mom/kids want.

    It is interesting how on many other threads SMs bemoan how irresponsible moms are, yet when they have not planned on how to pay for their kids college, and rely on dh, it is just too bad.

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "silverswood, there is a big difference between being responsible for food on the table for minor stepkids or medical care and the other is expect to pay college tuition."

    I didn't say anything about forcing anyone to pay for college. That's not what this post is about. I've said time and again that I do not believe parents are obligated to pay for their children's college education.

    I spoke with my husband last night about this and he agreed, but we are in total agreement about paying for our children's needs as they arise. We are preparing them for college, but are not promising them anything. Both children. I will work to help put his daughter through, and vice versa. Out of all of my friends NONE of us married the "bloomies girl" because she had a nice rack or the "pool boy" because of his modeling experience. We all married adults with whom we had an intellectual, emotional and physical attraction and who came from a similar background. Anyone who is mentally stunted to marry a person so "beneath their station" who could possibly be "marrying for money" deserves to lose every dime that "leech" sucks off of them. But the children in the situation should not have to suffer just because the Porsche driver has a woodie for Miss Aging Beauty Queen. I think Canada has the right idea. Just because your pants are doing the thinking doesn't mean you shouldn't have to consider how many other lives you are impacting.

    In some provinces of Canada there are laws on the books regarding the responsibilities of stepparents. Depending on each unique situation (who is contributing to the child, how long the child has been in the home with the stepparent, etc) Stepparents are often required to pay CHILD SUPPORT for their stepchildren until age 18 or longer if the child is in school. Simply because people choose mates who have children and they don't consider that they are taking on a responsibility. It is time for the children to be taken care of. Period.

    KKNY:

    "Did SM marry for money? Partially. I doubt even she can decide. Woman meets man, man sees beuatiful woman, woman sees man drving nice car, takes her out to nice restaruants. He says to himself how pretty and nice she is; she says how nice and gracious he is."

    "The mom said she didnt understand how schools worked -- I guess she didnt learn that much working the beauty counter at Bloomies"

    I think you're showing the shallow end of your pool.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Silver -- you say "Anyone who is mentally stunted to marry a person so "beneath their station" who could possibly be "marrying for money" deserves to lose every dime that "leech" sucks off of them. But the children in the situation should not have to suffer just because the Porsche driver has a woodie for Miss Aging Beauty Queen. I think Canada has the right idea. Just because your pants are doing the thinking doesn't mean you shouldn't have to consider how many other lives you are impacting."

    I am confused. You say children shouldnt suffer -- are you referring to kids from first marriage, moms kids, dads kids or what.

    As to what Canada requires, please provide a cite. My understanding of Canadian law (which yes is different in every province) is limted rules on stepparents and for stepparents to have parental responsiblitey both bioparents have to sign on, as does step. Please educate me. Point me to statute etc.

  • shannon2356
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Shannon2356 said:

    "Kkny, I asked you to turn it around and look at it from another perspective. If the SM made the "Decision" that the BM and the DH were to pay for the SD's downpayment as an engagement gift, is that ok? What if the BM could not afford the downpayment on the house for her daughter? Is it ok to make decisions for someone else with no discussion? Is it respectful?
    And about the DH paying for his Skids' college education, We pay for one of my SD's college tuition and books and I make more money than my DH. Their BM pays nothing. Should I feel resentful and angry, because I don't. I feel we should help SD, because she is a kid and she needs help, so we do. :)"

    (I removed the part about the SM paying a downpayment for the SD, since you didn't seem to undestand what I meant.)

    Kkny replied:

    "Its not about gender, its about whose kid it is. I beleive Bioparents should be responsible. If you chose to pay for a stepchild, your choice. I would not critize you for not paying. Here it appears that Dad will make the decision, and it is SM bemoaning that he gives in to what mom/kids want.
    It is interesting how on many other threads SMs bemoan how irresponsible moms are, yet when they have not planned on how to pay for their kids college, and rely on dh, it is just too bad."

    I am reposting this because you did not answer my question about being respectful or about "if the tables were turned". If you were the BM and the SM told YOU that YOU are expected to pay such and such with your Ex, would you feel respected? It's not really about the BM or the SM or the DH, but about the RESPECT that needs to be shown to one another. My DH says to mention that as a father, he would not tolerate his ex telling him what to pay for. It is a discussion to have, but he said that he would not tolerate being TOLD by anyone "THIS is what YOU are doing because I HAVE DECIDED that this is what we are going to do".

    Also, you stated that "Here it appears that Dad will make the decision, and it is SM bemoaning that he gives in to what mom/kids want." The OP actually says that SD gives in to BM and hates conflict. Maybe SD wants a house but maybe SD doesn't want BM and DH (BD) to give a downpayment. We don't KNOW for sure. I think you are making it about personal experiences here and I think we should try to make it about that people need to respect one another. If the SM had made a one-sided decision, people on this forum would also criticize her. I find that most people here are not prejudiced towards BM's or SM's, but are pretty fair and open-minded... :D

  • finedreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sharon, the fact that they have been to college doesn't mean SM paid for it. SD was 21, which is pretty much close to be out of college and some people graduate at 21 by the way and we do not know age of other kids. My X remarried when DD was close to 21 and she still had some college left, of course her SM cooks dinners when DD visits and such but my X would not ask her to pay DD's college tuition.

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Did SM marry for money? Partially. I doubt even she can decide. Woman meets man, man sees beuatiful woman, woman sees man drving nice car, takes her out to nice restaruants. He says to himself how pretty and nice she is; she says how nice and gracious he is. End of day -- is he marrrying her for her looks, and she for his money -- in part?"

    WOW kkny! You know their dating history and reasoning behind why they married each other too! "Whose to say." Indeed! You don't know the circumstances but you assume to know what was in either of their minds when they dated or married! HAHAHAHA Unbelievable! (and you tell me how every family is different... variables need to be considered?) But I guess... since you like to guess so much... that all boy meets girl situations are the same. Looks & Money! Seems to be what is important in YOUR world kkny! Well, guess what? Not everyone is so obsessed with looks & money!

    FD: My son is in college. One of MY requirements for him is he needs to work part time and help pay some of his own expenses. WE (my DH & I) pay his living expenses. My DH helps him with transportation costs, books, and in his first year, paid part of his tuition. I say WE because if I write the check, it means I have less money to put in the joint account so DH makes up the difference. If DH writes the check, I make up the difference or WE can write it from our joint account but regardless of who writes the check, it affects our household income. When it's SD's turn to go to college, we will do the same. We certainly are NOT relying on her mother to help... we can't even rely on her to pay her child support or help with anything else. SD won't be denied an education because her mom is a lazy deadbeat. We may decide not to pay for college if SD is a terrible student and is not college material. We hope she does go and I work extra with her to find ways to make her enjoy learning and to be a better student. It's an uphill battle because she really seems to want to be like her mom... just want to have fun. Her mom is certainly not concerned about her kids' education, let alone worried about sending them to college. But, regardless it doesn't matter if it's dad's kid or my (SM) kid. Not all families look at it the way kkny would like them to... because as I said before, there are lots of things SD gets because I, her step parent, provide them for her. Her father can't and her mother won't. We don't know if OP's DH helps her children because he has to... or because he WANTS to. It just bolster's kkny's position to assume SM is forcing him because she feels guilty. She also says it bothers her more than it bother's her husband that her ex doesn't help anymore. That leads me to believe her husband may feel like I do. Younger kids need help more than older ones. or college is more important than buying a house... and may not be considering who's child, but rather looking at the situation from his own angle. He put his kids through college... maybe he feels no responsibility to shell out more money. She's college educated and maybe working with a fiance and I can see where he might want her to do it on her own. I look at my 23 year old son differently than my 20 year old or my 19 year old. The oldest is now married, he has a child and is in the military. If he called and asked me for money while I'm helping my 20 year old with college, I would think he needs to figure it out on his own. He is an adult & making adult decisions, it's time to cut the apron strings and let him be 'grown up'. He & his wife need to save up for their down payment. My SD is 10. We will be supporting her for at least the next 8-10 years & my kids are grown. The ones living at home, going to school will get help but as they get older, they are expected to make their own way in the world while DH and I continue to support SD.

    and kkny, if it creates strife now that my husband and I are helping my son through college... will it create strife when my SD goes to college? I am spending more on the attorney to fight the custody battle her mom started than we are spending on my son's college. Fortunately, the attorney is allowing me to work off the bill... but imagine how much work I am doing to cover $300 an hour. One email to our attorney was billed $75 for her to read it & write back. Of course... maybe I should be resentful of it? If what you are saying is a step dad that is paying for college for kids that are not his (SM's kids) only does so to keep peace with SM... and he will resent it? I am a step mom paying for things for a child not mine... should I resent it? I work my ass off to pay the attorney bill and each month, the bill goes up.. never down. The only resentment I can muster is that BM had no business taking DH to court... she just doesn't want to pay her support. But, I am not going to resent doing what I feel is the right thing... just that it was not necessary. You can't assume to know what will cause strife or who will resent what... just because your circle of friends say so.

    and I just have to say, this comment says a lot about the kind of person YOU are: "The mom said she didnt understand how schools worked -- I guess she didnt learn that much working the beauty counter at Bloomies." Unbelievable!!! Well, not really I guess!

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's one cite. I got it from googling "canada laws on step parents". It's the first link that came up. Surely you can google more if you truly want to be educated.

    Canadian Law

    Here's another one:

    Family Law Child Support

    "In British Columbia, unmarried step-parents are financially responsible for their step-children if they contributed to the children's support for at least one year. Next door in Alberta, unmarried step-parents have no financial obligations to their step-children."

    KKNY:
    "I am confused. You say children shouldnt suffer -- are you referring to kids from first marriage, moms kids, dads kids or what."

    What kind of ridiculous question is that?

    Well, obviously the SM's kids should play second fiddle, after all their mother is just in it for the new man's money and heaven forbid they should get any of it.

  • finedreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think anyone made any decisions. BM supposedly said that me, mom and dad, will help with the downpayment, maybe it was decided years ago that they would help wiht the house. maybe she said "we might help", "we will help as we promised years ago etc". Who knows. If dad doesn't want or can't help he won't help. But SMs' kids college shouldn't be the reason (unless again she put his kids through college, which is unlikely). i don't necessarilly think people should help grown kids wiht buying houses, but I disagree with the reasoning.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima, I had a ton of question marks indicating lack of knowlege as to why marriage. If you think I should have added more, sorry.

    Shannon, if Xs SO said I should pay for something, I would laugh at her. My X and I discuss any interpretations of agreements. If she that to DD I suspect DD would laugh at her. And my point is that if Dad is going to pay for stuff for Moms kids, in this, OP's example, yes his kids will suffer -- as per OP.

    I have seen stuff on the web all over re Canada.

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I have seen stuff on the web all over re Canada."

    Then why the heck did you ask me to provide a cite? Did you just want to see me jump through your little hoop?

    "As to what Canada requires, please provide a cite. My understanding of Canadian law (which yes is different in every province) is limted rules on stepparents and for stepparents to have parental responsiblitey both bioparents have to sign on, as does step. Please educate me. Point me to statute etc."

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima, Shannon, thank you. Shannon, I understood your "SM paying a downpayment for the SD" comment perfectly. It was precisely what I was trying to say but failed. Regardless of how it is put, there is always going to be the preconception that the daddy is paying for everything, so the SM and her kids should just get in line after the "real" family.

    I think Ima that you and I have similar approaches, and you showing how it goes into one pot even though there are seperate pots is a great example. Plus, as you said, you have paid tons of money for things that are s-kid related that have nothing to do with college because you are a family and there are things that need to be done to keep the family healthy and intact.

    KKNY, you're right. Maybe this is a generational gap thing. Because now, in this younger generation we are not marrying for status and money and being selfish and greedy. We are creating actual relationships based on love and trust and caring. We have degrees, we make as much or more than our husbands. We did not marry some man who is not attracted to us intellectually because we're social climbing bimbos. There is no need for separation of desires because we can be both intelligent and pretty. We have married men who want to care for the children in their lives, not just those they personally created. Men who not only marry their wife, but the children in his life are included in the commitment. That's what is happening in the current generation.

  • kkny
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Excuse me, I have a masters and a professional qualification and came into my marriage with as much money as X. Unlike his current SO.

    I have never SM should get in line. I said she take responsiblity for her own kids -- but apparently SMs think only the kids should take resposnbilty.

    As to your current DH taking responsiblity for your kids, come back in 10 years.

  • shannon2356
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kkny said:
    "Shannon, if Xs SO said I should pay for something, I would laugh at her. My X and I discuss any interpretations of agreements. If she that to DD I suspect DD would laugh at her."

    I didn't ask you if you or your DD would LAUGH, I asked if you thought it was RESPECTFUL to make these decisions without discussing them first. If you recall, you said: "My X and I discuss any interpretations of agreements" You DISCUSS them, oh wow, that's great, that was my point, thanks!! And if laughing at her is the way that you interract with your DD's SM,your ex's DW, I guess that says a LOT...

  • imamommy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Excuse me, I have a masters and a professional qualification"

    Thank you for clarifying this. I would have NEVER guessed in a million years.

  • silversword
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " but apparently SMs think only the kids should take resposnbilty."

    What?

    "As to your current DH taking responsiblity for your kids, come back in 10 years."

    KKNY, he has set up trust accounts for my dd and she is in his will, as HIS DAUGHTER IS IN MINE. We have agreed to jointly take responsibility for the children we brought into this world and discussed it prior to marrying. Our salaries and inheritances are just about equal and we would be able to provide for our single bio-children just about the same were we not together. Thanks for your gloom prophesy though. It's comic relief.

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