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Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Posted by raek (My Page) on
Thu, May 19, 11 at 15:47

Okay, I haven't posted much in quite awhile, but am looking for advise/opinions today. I'm afraid this is going to be a long story because much background is needed.

My Dad started dating my SM when I was about 15. My Dad lived in the suburbs and I lived with my Mom in a small town about 2 hours from my Dad's place. My SM was also from the same small town where I lived. When my Dad first started dating SM, I came to visit him on the same weekend that my SM (Dad's GF at the time) was there. I had not spent much time with her previously, so this was pretty much my first impression of her. I asked my Dad if I could go do something with a friend of mine. He told me I couldn't and I proceeded to argue that he should let me go. I know now that I probably should have just taken No for an answer, but I was a kid and was a bit stubborn. Anyway, SM decided to get involved in the argument and it proceeded to get VERY heated. I felt that as Dad's New GF, that she had no right to even have anything to say about what I was doing, and I still feel that way. She should have left it to him to talk to me and she should have stayed out of it. She proceeded to grab me by the face and pull my hair. I completely melted down and was beyond hurt that my Dad would just sit there and watch that happen and not protect me. This was just the start of many heated arguments to come, including one when she was here for my College Graduation. She acted like a total brat the entire time she was here and then when my brother finally had had enough and blew up about it, she went on to suggest that my Dad was the only one who was hurting from all of this. The truth of the matter is that everybody was in tears that day except for SM, even my cousin/bff was upset. SM is the kind of person that ALWAYS has to be right. She can never admit when she's wrong about anything. She also is an alcoholic and the drunker she gets, the worse she gets. What's even worse is that my Dad was a very stern, take nothing from nobody kind of guy when he was married to my mom. He didn't exactly treat her like she deserved to be treated. But with SM, he walks on eggshells and bends over backward to make her happy, and she treats him like crap. She's always on his case about every little thing.

Okay, so, back to the hair pulling incident. Not long after that happened, my Mom saw SM at the Post Office in our little town. She told SM that if she ever laid her hands on me again, that she would regret it. BTW, my mom is not a threatening woman. She is very petite and timid. It's really not like her to even stand up to somebody like that, but I think the Mama Bear came out in her that day. But she didn't threaten violence or anything of the sort. A couple of hours later, my Mom was served with a restraining order at her office. Anyway, my thoughts on the matter were that if she was going to get litigious with my mom, who did nothing, then two could play that game and the next time I was in the suburb where my Dad lived, I filed a police report about what she had done to me. At the time, the police said there was nothing much they could do because she didn't live in the same town that the incident happened, but that they would keep it on file.

Okay, now, fast forward 15 years. We still don't care much for each other, but have learned to somewhat fake it when we are forced to be around one another...The weekend of Thanksgiving, somehow this report is discovered and the police issue a warrant for her arrest...she is able to go to court and have the case dismissed, and I even offered to make a statement in her favor in order to get the whole thing dropped, even though I was apprehensive about doing that because I didn't want to lie about what happened. It turned out that I didn't need to make a statement or anything.

After all of that, my brother went to visit (we live several states away, so we don't visit often) and she did her best to pick a fight with him while he was there. She finally succeeded on his last night in town and they got into it. She actually started kicking him in the shins after pulling him into another room so that my Dad couldn't see what was going on. This tells me that she clearly didn't learn from her mistakes.

Now, she is trying to get a job and this has come up on her record. She has to pay $1,500.00 in order to get it expunged from her record and my dad has called me to say ask me to help pay for it. It was clear to me that she was with him when he called...he always watches his Ps and Qs when she is around. I told him that A) I don't have the money, that I have a new baby to take care of and B) I don't feel that I did anything wrong, so I don't feel that it's my responsibility to help pay for this. I feel like you reap what you sew and this is what she has sewn. So, then he calls me when she is no longer with him and asks if he can send me a few hundred dollars (that she doesn't know about) and then I could turn around and send that same money to her. I told him that I would think about it, but it's not something that I'm comfortable with because I feel like that would be me admitting to doing something wrong and that what SHE did was wrong and the consequences should be hers to bear. I also said that they BOTH handled things badly, but that shouldn't be on ME to correct. Soooooo....I know that's a lot, but what do you think?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

she pulled your hair, you file a police report. whatever happens after that has nothing to do with you. it is between SM and police department and the courts.

No, do not send any money. More so i suggest your brother files another police report as about her kicking him in the shin. So the courts see that she did not change. Stay away from her and do not send a penny! Her problems, not yours

she is just nuts!


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I'm just feeling bad for my Dad because I know that he's stuck in the middle and if I don't do this for him, he will have hell to pay and it will probably make it harder for us to visit with each other in the future. Plus my 4 month old daughter is his only grandchild and I know his heart already hurts that he is so far away from her.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

It sure sounds like your dad's an abused spouse.

I'm so sorry.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I do agree your dad is abused, but I have hard time feeling bad for him. I don't know how old he is, unless he is incapacitated he has options and he had options 15 years ago.

if anyone pulled my DD's hair, that person would fly through the window. and I'd like to see how DD's SM would even attempt to touch her. she wouldn't, just saying...

I think this is the case when a person would need to choose a kid over their spouse (not like the one where son is doing drugs and mom stupidly choosing him over everyone else). i hope your dad gets out of toxic homelife and starts over.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I'm so sorry.

My dad is similar with my SM, but she has never physically abused me.

I think $1500 is inexpensive compared to the damage she did to you, and the mental damage your mother must have suffered on your behalf.

Don't "help" dad. It will just set a precedent. I too have the only grandchild and my dad has suffered a lot of missed events because he'd rather be with SM. He's a big boy. Better to know where you stand and what you can expect with him now than carry this into the future where they can repeat it with your daughter.

Best wishes, glad you're back, sorry about the circumstances...
~Silver


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

This is so bizarre!
Don't send the money, Raek. That will open doors to paths you don't want to go down with her. She sounds like she'll take a mile if you give her an inch.


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poor daddy

"I completely melted down and was beyond hurt that my Dad would just sit there and watch that happen and not protect me."

sorry, I blame your dad in all this, and sorry I do not feel bad for him at all. you were 15, a minor.

"I'm just feeling bad for my Dad because I know that he's stuck in the middle"

I understand you still love your father no matter what, but try not to feel bad for him, he is not a victim here at all. he didn't stuck nowhere, he made a choice to watch his girlfriend, (nobody really) hitting his minor child. Now he dares to ask you for money years later, I don't care that he is abused.

sorry my views clearly differ from others, but I don't tolerate crap like "my poor daddy". I commend your mother for standing up to you.


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correct

oops i meant mom stood up for you


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Don't do it!! Your sm sounds psycho. Your brother should have filed a police report as well. Your dad knowing that she is doing this to you isn't right. I agree that it sounds like he is an abused spouse. I'm sure he won't admit to it though. He'll have an excuse for her.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I don't think you have ANY responsibility to pay for anything, but your dad wants to circulate the money to appease her because it will make his life easier so for that reason, I would do it. I would do it for my dad because he has to live with the B!tch. It would make HIS life better but I would not acknowledge that you are responsible. I might include a note that says, "here is some $$ to help in the cost of _____ ." but I would not admit guilt (you have none) nor would I acknowledge you have any obligation to pay it. But, for your dad's sake, I would do as he wishes.


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i am so puzzled why people think raek has to pay for SM's to clean her record (even if payment would be through other channels), that record was over attacking a minor. she wants to clean her record, it is on her, if dad is so scared of her it is his problem.

i don't get it! if my dad watched somebody pulled my hair and then wanted ME to pay for it, I would be so heart broken and would not want speak to him.

I am wondering now if people see it differently if it was mother asking her child to pay her BF to erase his record of attacking that said child. People would be livid! yet once again poor abused man...

I don't think he has to live with the b!tch at all, not like they have minor children together. he is adult making adult choices.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I agree PO1. This is sick. I can understand you feeling sorry for your dad but he has no right to ask you to do this. If he wants to give her money, let him.

I'd wash my hands of it.


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I cant imagine a grown woman pulling a 15 yr olds hair, or kicking a male child of any age in the shins, and I would never condone this under any circumstances,but where was your mother when this happenened??? Why didnt she file charges on your behalf??? You seem to let her off scott free, as, she did nothing wrong to get an RO against her..she told the SM you ll regret doing anything to my dd, that is a threat...Why didnt she pursue legal action against SM? Very lame to expect you to pay for expungement, I d tell your dad for SM to do the legwork and paperwork herself, she doesnt need a lawyer for 1800.00 She may have to pay court costs, but that way neither one of you is going to great expense for what appears to be a cloudy version of what happened that day....


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I agree with everyone else that you shouldn't pay anything towards this. Maybe you should talk to your dad about it though. He wants you to be dishonest by playing that little game with the money. But, that's not right and you'll compromise your own integrity for it.

Maybe you should mention to him that she is still being abusive and you don't want to condone it? You could mention your brother and say that she is lucky he didn't file anything. Also, maybe mention that you don't like how he tip toes around her and that you feel she is abusive to him and let him know you would help him if he wanted to seek help?

Awkward things to have to say to a parent, but that doesn't mean they aren't true and it doesn't mean he might not appreciate the extended hand.

She was in the wrong, she's an adult, it's karma i guess that it came up after so long to bite her now. But it sounds like it's deserved especially if she still thinks she can behave like that. there's a reason they make you pay a fine. It's so you will think twice about doing it again.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Why would you enable and encourage this sick behavior? I get the part that you want a relationship with your father, but what he may need more than to appease SM is counseling to understand why he is in and remains in this unhealthy relationship with his wife.

What good will 'clearing' SM's name do? She just kicked the crap out of your brother? Why pay $1,500 when any day brother could refile charges against her? What's it going to prove? What behavior will this woman display at work the first time a co-employee angers her? I'd be no part in wanting to find it.

I'd not let this woman any where near your baby. I'd also be sure Dad is clear that he is not to secretly send the SM pretending it is from you. I'm truly amazed that this guy phoned you and asked you to clear this woman. I get he's obviously afraid of her...is this really how this guy wants to spend the remaining years of his life.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

hypothetical scenario: DD is 15, I meet this guy, we start dating, he pulls my DD's hair and grabs her face, I just sit there, she goes to the police to file a report, years later my now husband wants her to pay to clean his record, i call DD once asking for money, she says no, i call again and ask to pay but in some twisted way...people say "poor you, you are abused", yes DD should pay to make mommy happy, poor mommy lives with abusive guy. REALLY?

If I posted anything like this here, nobody would care if I am being abused by my husband, i would be called a pathetic loser of a woman. I don't understand portraying men as innocent victim, honestly I see it as a trend here. I can't imagine anyone in real life feeling bad for a guy and even for a minute considering paying her.

raek, please advice your brother to file a report, you have a child, she might one day attack her.

Funny thing dotz, dad was there sitting and doing nothing and now demanding money but somehow mom did something wrong. same trend...Mom's fault, no matter what happened. Maybe people have clouded vision because they deal with crazy women in real life. But it is just funny to observe this.


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Mom let it slide, but she is not blamed, of course dad should have stepped in, but this was, what 15 yr ago, a teens view and lord knows what really happened...


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Wow, for some reason, I thought there might be a few people of the same mindset as Ima. I'm actually of the same mindset as most of you, but it just really bothers me to know that if I say no to this, SM will further isolate my Dad from me and make things out to be my fault. It's been a long road to get to where we are, and things were finally starting to become better between me and my dad. I've finally let go of what happened in the past and found some peace about it in my heart. I spent so much time being angry and wrapped up in it all that I feel like it only ended up hurting me. I think SM was happy when I was miserable and fighting with my Dad. She got to make me out to be the bad guy and she got what she wanted, which was my Dad all to herself. I almost think it hurts her more when things are good between us and when I let her crap slide, because then she doesn't get to alienate me from my Dad. It's such a twisted little game she plays.

I understand my Dad's part in this as well and by no means see him as an innocent victim. I've called him on the carpet about it on multiple occasions, but at the end of the day, he still chooses to be with her, and I believe that some of the reasons for that choice is very selfish. He knows that he can leave and he knows he can always come to me or my brother for anything and that we would be more than happy to help him out if he were to leave her. We've both made it clear how we feel about her.

I do agree with you, PO1...if it were a Man treating the children this way, there's no doubt that people would be more outraged. I'm glad you brought that up and it is something I will convey to him as well.

I would never, ever, have my baby girl around her without always being there myself. I actually think SM is a little bit scared of me because she knows that I see through her and she knows that I'll say what I feel and I know she knows that I wouldn't hesitate to report her again.

As for my Mom...what more could she do, other than report it to the police herself? She wasn't there when it happened and she did encourage me to report it, but I chose not to, until she pulled the RO crap.

I don't know, I'm still torn. I know it's WRONG, but I know how my relationship with my Dad will suffer if I don't play this stupid game. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I know that if I were on the outside looking in, it would be a no-brainer, but I'm just not convinced that taking the "right" position here will be the best decision emotionally for me. I'm so angry with him for putting me in this position.


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Dotz...

My memory of this is very clear and she never should have laid her hands on me. AND she kicked my brother repeatedly in the shins last year. He's in his mid-thirties.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I feel for you raek. You've grown up but SM doesn't seem to have... she's still doing what she did then. I can understand why your dad stays... when our kids grow up & have kids/family of their own, we don't want to impose on them and their life. Some parents are happy to be alone and if they don't want to be alone, they may tolerate more than a young person would. I think it's sad, but true. Your dad will put up with her because she provides him with something, whether it's companionship or something else... only he knows why he puts up with her.

As our parents get older and we get older... well, I have taken a different perspective. My dad was recently diagnosed with lung cancer & the reality that he may not be here is really hard to think about. If it were my father, I guess I'm in a place where I would do what he wants to keep my relationship and make his life easier. None of our parents is perfect and we all make mistakes with our own kids & I'm sure he's made his mistakes... marrying her is one of them. But, life is too short and while I don't think that woman doesn't deserve jack, as a daughter I would suck it up because you only have one father and we only get one chance to live our lives. When he's gone, you'll know you did what you needed FOR him... she will be alone. I know you think it's WRONG, but I think it's doing the right thing for him. (even if it is selfish of him to ask that of you)


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

The reality is that your relationship with your Dad will probably suffer either way, because whatever happens your SM will use it as a stick to beat your Dad with and it will flow on to you. So, in your shoes, I wouldn't cycle the money around.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

raek, do not give anyone any money, you have a child to raise, spend on her. Please do not get manipulated into this. you would enable this outrageous behavior, and trust me if you think it would improve relationship with your dad, it absolutely won't.

Ima, sure raek could forgive dad for what happened 15 years ago yet asking her for money to appease an abuser NOW is unacceptable. dad can't care less about his kids, I am surprised you think raek should appease his wife. I understand forgiving the past but he wants her to lie NOW. he didn't change a bit, he still does not care what his kids feel. Sorry about your dads illness. hope he gets well


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I have to agree with PO1 and Colleenoz.

Raek already offered to speak in favor of Sm in court. Is that appreciated? Nope. Not 'good enough' for this SM. She wants to make Raek also pay to erase SM's bad behavior...a behavior by the way , that she still uses when something/someone does not suit her.

Why Dad did not usher this GF right out of his door 15 years ago pre-marriage after phyiscally assualting his daughter is beyong me. Why Dad went ahead and supported soon to be SM in obtaining a RO after BM objected to the phyiscal assault on his daughter is unthinkable to me.

Fine, Dad wants SM clean to work. Great. Let Dad and SM pay their own fees in order to do so... whether she works or not is not on your shoulders. You're not the one stopping SM from working, you're not the one who abused a child 15 years ago and you're not the one who is still abusing people by kicking them. You can not condone her behavior, then or now.

Tell Dad whatever you want. It's not our decision to make for you, we're not the one in the situation. Make your decision and then live with it. Send it, don't send it, wish SM well in her new employment and let it go.

And Ima, prayers coming your way for your father.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

sorry, I didn't complete my thought:

Abused people enable their abusers;
it's the dynamics of abuse.

Victims will cooperate in the mistreatment of other people, & even tell the abuser things that will enrage him/her at someone else, to deflect the abuser's rage, & they'll draw other people into the web (give you money to give to his wife etc) to keep the "temperature" down at home.

I didn't mean to imply that you should cooperate with whatever dad cooks up to make his wife think she's won,exactly the opposite.

"The reality is that your relationship with your Dad will probably suffer either way, because whatever happens your SM will use it as a stick to beat your Dad with and it will flow on to you. So, in your shoes, I wouldn't cycle the money around."

exactly.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Thank you all so much for your comments. I'm definitely now leaning toward telling him no. I think it's up to him to stand-up for what is right and if he doesn't, well then it sucks that it will effect our relationship and ability to spend time together, but he has a choice everyday to stay or to go and he continues to choose to stay. I shouldn't enable him in that choice.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Raek, I have a similar situation with my dad and SM. It was really painful to put my foot down and it damaged our relationship in the short run but in the long run it made it stronger.

I'm sorry you have to be the adult in this situation; your dad and SM are acting like children.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I haven't posted in ages, but I do lurk every now and then. This is outrageous. DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY!!! It would be wrong to send the money for so many different reasons.

I also bet you that, considering your dad's lack of a backbone, he will hand over some of his money to your SM, and state that it is from you anyway. I would make sure that SM knows it's not the case if he does lie to make things easier for himself.

If your dad were my dad, I would be inclined to send him a letter addressing his motivation for making such a ridiculous request of me. I would also tell that I love him, that I want him to be part of my life (my family/kid's life), but that I will not participate in some twisted dysfunctional mess. I might also ask him to step back from himself to look at the last 15 plus years. Ask him what he might say to you if the shoe were on the other foot.


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I would aslo send a letter to SM indicating that you are not paying anything in case dad gives her money pretending it is from you. Sorry, I typially am for avoiding conflicts howevere this situation rubs me the wrong way.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Raek, Absolutely she had no right to lay her hands on you!!! 15 years have passed and your view of the events and hers probably differ, but under no circumstance would I blame you and hold you responsible to pay!!!! Glad to hear that your mom did want to make a report, I was thinking both parents had failed you..Any grown woman that kicks a 30 year old man belongs in a padded cell..Cant you just see your dad away from her?


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I agree as well - do NOT send the money. In addition to everything everyone else has said, I'm wondering about employment and charges that were dismissed. Unless SM is applying for a job with high security clearance (and they'd find out about any arrests anyway), she shouldn't have a criminal record from this - because it was dismissed. There's a reason that most states have laws in place so that only criminal convictions can count on a background check; to protect people arrested for mistaken identity, being in wrong place at wrong time, etc. In addition, as was said, I highly doubt the court costs of expungement are that much.

It sucks that your father is abused. But that is not your responsibility either. If I called my brother crying that DH was going to hit me if I didn't come up with $1500 for him (DH) to buy drugs and alcohol with should my brother send the money so I would be "safe"? OF COURSE NOT! Anyone can see that all that would happen is DH would view that as an opening to do the same thing again - and again - and again. If you give in to this blackmail on the part of SM that's exactly what will happen.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Raek - If you had lied about SM's attack and the police report you filed was false -- then yes, absolutely you should pay to have the record cleared.

But that's not what happened! Your SM has a record for doing something she actually did. And it's not like she has since changed her ways and 'deserves a second chance'. She's shown her ways haven't changed at all.

I'd suggest you advise your dad to take a really close look at the character of the woman he married. Someone who would physically attack his children, then blame the children for her own lack of control. This request for funds is really just a form of extortion.

Will SM turn this against you?
Absolutely!
Either way.

If you 'pay up' (no matter where the cash comes from), she'll twist it that you are admitting you were at fault. If you refuse to pay up, she'll twist that into what a selfish little #itch you are.

She's broken, and there's nothing you can do that will fix her. And nothing your father can do that will fix her.

But he can fix himself...


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It's hard to see my Dad away from her since they live far away. Financially, it's very hard for me to go visit him without staying at his home because he lives in an expensive/resort-type area. The last few times he has come to visit, she has surprisingly stayed at home, which has been nice, but that hasn't always been the case. She used to insist on coming and then always acted like a spoiled princess the whole time she was here. I'm not sure why she hasn't come for the last few visits, but it sure makes things easier when she isn't here. I have a feeling that will change back to her tagging along on visits now that I'm refusing to pay this.

Also, her view and mine form that night has always differed. She says that she "only" grabbed my face but that she didn't pull my hair. Which isn't the case, but even if it were, she had no business putting her hands on me AT ALL!

I think the job she is trying to get is with airport security. Wouldn't you hate to come across her in the security line? Unfortunately, in the area in which they live, there aren't many options for jobs right now.

I did look up how to get a criminal case expunged in their State, and it doesn't look like it should cost $1,500. I assume that she just went to a lawyer instead of trying to figure out how to do it herself. I may pass on that info to my Dad, but I'm not sure if I will. Maybe I'll just let her pay the attorney, if that's what she wants to do.

I've already advised my Dad to take a close look at her character. I begged him not to marry her in the first place. We've had countless discussions about the kind of person that she is. He knows how I feel about her. He knows how my brother feels about her. He continues to choose to stay. I'm tired of having that discussion.

You are all correct. It's not worth it to play this stupid game with them. I've decided not to do it. He hasn't called me back to discuss what I decided yet, so I'll just wait to hear from him and then I'll let you know how it goes...


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

"She used to insist on coming and then always acted like a spoiled princess the whole time she was here....I've already advised my Dad to take a close look at her character. I begged him not to marry her in the first place. We've had countless discussions about the kind of person that she is. He knows how I feel about her.... He continues to choose to stay. I'm tired of having that discussion."

Well, you've hit on just about every complaint I have about my SM and dad too.

I have no advice. But I do have extreme empathy for you.


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Raek, I have a SS that doesnt like me at all, and one that likes me, a lot....You really cant tell Dad who to marry, which kid should DH listened to, the one that likes me, or the one that doesnt ? Either way, one of his kids are wrong about me ..LOL


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

No, I would not like to face somebody like her in a position of power!

If I knew that such a person was applying for the job, I might send a copy of her record to the company that hires airport security.


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Dotz...I understand that you shouldn't listen to your kids about who to marry, or who not to, but you should take a good look at who you are involved with and you also shouldn't marry somebody who abuses your children. I think he has regrets about marrying her, but I think he's kind of in the mindset now that he's too old to go through another divorce and he doesn't want to be alone. Plus, I think most of what they have is in her name, so I think that he thinks if he left her, he'd be left with nothing.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Raek, again, it's the same, except my dad has admitted he regrets marrying her and didn't really want to when he did.

Oversharing? Yep.

But it's a little late.... he's too old to go through another divorce, etc...

same same.

And Dotz, I hear you. But sometimes friends and family and children can see things the person in love cannot see. Love can be blind. It's not always that the kid just doesn't want mom or dad to remarry....


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Oh my Gosh, this woman is psycho! I found some information on how to get records sealed and I forwarded it to my Dad's email address. She promptly responded, from his email, telling me that sealing records and expungement are not the same thing. I urged him to look more closely into it before going out and spending a bunch of money on an attorney. She then responded from her own email with a nasty email to me accusing me of lying about it and laying a guilt trip on me for accepting money from my Dad to pay for my wedding. I promptly picked up the phone to call my Dad and discovered that she had blocked my phone from calling him. She is insane. What kind of person behaves this way? I'm so over him allowing her to walk all over me and my brother this way. It's agonizing to want so badly to have a relationship with your Dad when he continues to make excuses for the behavior of his psychotic wife. I came to the point a few years ago when I was ready to just walk away from him. I finally truly put my foot down and refused to take any more of this crap and things finally changed a little bit. I guess it's time, once again to refuse to take this. If he wants a relationship with me, then he will have to start standing up for what is right. I'm not going to cater to him playing these little games anymore in which he tells her X in order to appease her and then goes behind her back to let me and my brother know how he really feels.


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WOW!!! She blocked you from calling your own dad?!?! That's just plain wrong! You need to call him from another number and block it. Let him know exactly what just happened and let him know that this is it. Do something or live without you. That's what I'd do anyway. I don't put up with that BS. Good luck!


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Raek, I'm so sorry. That's awful, and I can't believe she compared your Dad giving you money for your wedding to you paying to have her criminal record expunged! What a nutcase!

Good for you in not allowing her to control your life!


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Oh my. Wonder if Dad even has a clue she reads his emails and answers them for him...or that anything at all transpired between you two ladies just now. Just more reason to know that paying to 'clear' this woman's name is not a good idea. The woman is still very much the poison she was 15 years ago.

Yeah, short of trying to call Dad from a different number or his work (if he still works), I would not email again. You would have no way of knowing who is reading and actually answering.

If you do get hold of Dad I think you might assure him that he is welcome to come your way and visit (him , if SM tags along she can stay at hotel and away from you). You would like to have a relationship with him and him one with your child, but that relationships are a two way street and you've done all you can , you will not submit yourself to further degradation and attacks by this woman.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

My Dad knows. I spoke to him yesterday. My cell phone is not the only phone I have access to. He is hiding his head in the sand, as usual. Dad doesn't still work. He lost his job 2 years ago in the recession and hasn't been able to find work.

He actually sent me an email yesterday evening that said this:

"I am home and have read yours and SM's e-mails to each other and I know the cell phone is blocked. I think that the best way for us to communicate right now is thru e-mail while tensions are high and we don't need to be saying things to each other that might hurt everybody's feelings. SM told me about the e-mails and I have read them all. She isn't an abuser as you said and never has been. I really think all of this crap needs to stop now!
You know I love you, but I don't think you are doing the right thing.

Happy Birthday tomorrow,
Dad"

This came after the following email chain:

Me:
"Dad,

Why would it cost $1,500? You don't seem to need an atty to do this. I've attached the documents you would need to fill out in order to petition for the case to be expunged."

SM via Dad's email:
"The form you e-mailed is a petition to seal - not to expunge. There is a difference."

My response:
"According to what I've read, it is the same. It wouldn't hurt to try it this way, would it? Is the $1,500 for an attorney?"

Next email, from SM's email address:
"This is SM. There is a big difference between sealing a record and expungement so maybe you should research a little more. A sealing can still be accessed by courts, law enforcement and anyone in criminal justice. Or...anyone good with a computer for that matter. Expungement means the record is deleted and destroyed as if it never existed. If you think it is so simple to even get a record sealed, you should educate yourself by going into (court website from their state) and find out the process. There are countless fees, forms, filings and hearings. Or maybe talk to a couple of good (State) attorneys like I've had to do. I don't have the time, energy or money to clean your mess up. Most attorneys charge $2500.00 to complete a seal of records in (State).
I've lost a good job as a direct result of this. A job that took nine months to apply for and countless tests and trips. This job would have meant a lot to us right now and it would also have come with health insurance that we don't have.
What your reasons were for lying to the police in 1995 are yours to live with. However, your actions since 2008 are the most disturbing. You never told us what you had done even after you cashed $8500 worth of checks for your wedding. When we were blindsided by this the day before Thanksgiving we were in complete shock. It took us quite a while to figure out what happened and the puzzle pieces are still coming together. You've never once contacted me to see what happened and the impact it's had on my life and your dad's. But what hurts the most is your still lying about it.
I will get my record repaired with or without you. However, you really need to think this situation over and do the right thing. Start with telling the truth."

_____

The only thing I can figure out about the way she is lying in the email above is that she is trying to start some kind of paper trail to "prove" that I'm lying. Either that, or she is trying to goad me into blowing up on her and saying a bunch of stuff that she can somehow hold against me. Either way, I'm not going to give her the satisfaction. However, I did forward the email to my Dad's email (knowing that she would read it) and this is all I said:

"Dad,

After reading this email, I discovered that my phone is blocked from calling you. Really nice.

This woman was and always will be an abuser."

_______

I also called my Dad from work and he was stunned about the whole thing. But, like I said, he continues to hide his head in the sand.

A little background about her email: I filed the report when I was 15, I got married 2 1/2 years ago. When I filed the report, the police told me there wasn't much they could do because it had happened a month or so prior to my reporting it, and she didn't live in the same district as where the incident took place. They said they would keep it on record, but I was never under the impression that they would do much about it, so I pretty much forgot about the whole thing. Then, about a month after I got married, the police came with a Warrant for her arrest for this incident. They act like it was all out of the blue, but I have a feeling there is more to the story that they are not telling me.

After he sent the email about only wanting to communicate via email, he called my brother to tell him to let me know that he's just trying to defuse things. Whatever, I'm over dealing with him and all these little games he plays with her in order to appease her.


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One more thing...

My last email to him:
"I have nothing to say via email. You can call me when you want to have any further communication with me."


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

"They said they would keep it on record, but I was never under the impression that they would do much about it, so I pretty much forgot about the whole thing. Then, about a month after I got married, the police came with a Warrant for her arrest for this incident. They act like it was all out of the blue, but I have a feeling there is more to the story that they are not telling me."

You know, you may be onto something here... The police have many better things to do than arrest someone for a relatively minor assault allegation that is 15 years old. (Sorry about the 'relatively minor' comment, but in the overall scope of police reports and child abuse allegations...) It's more logical to assume that something recent triggered the action on the old claim. Could it have been something as 'routine' as the job application? (Though wasn't that later?) Or could there have been a new complaint filed by someone else? (She hasn't exactly changed.)

Anyway - What might make this old charge rise to the top of the 'to do list'? Ima's in the legal system. Maybe she'd have some insight. Or maybe you could drop by the local police station and ask a few questions.

I smell a rat...


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

She's had 15 years to get it wiped from her record. Did she not know that it was there all this time? How can it be your fault that she didn't take care of it before?

I agree with Sweeby. I'm so sorry.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

She didn't know until 2008 that it was there.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

If SM said she didnt get the job, it was probably a backround check that set it into motion...Once they ve seen the criminal record they wouldnt hire her, too late for expungement now, the point is they would never have known about it...A traffic stop, or another arrest..Some jurisdictions will open the old bench warrant files if they have extra staff and budget to clear out files...I m guessing the backround check..


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

WOW!!! Your dad is in serious denial. She has something over him and he's afraid of her. My brother is married to a woman that controls him. He is sick all the time because of this. He always says it's the flu but obviously no one has the flu forever. He won't go anywhere, he won't ride in the same car as her or his kids. It's pretty serious. He was NEVER this way before he married her. I have seen her in action, she yells at him in public... I can't imagine what it's like behind closed doors. Anyway, she blames my mom, my sister and I for everything. Saying if it wasn't for us he wouldn't be this way. BUT... we don't even see him because he's afraid to go anywhere. There's LOTS more to it but anyway, look up the symptoms of emotional/psychological abuse. It's all there. It's faily obvious that she's doing this to your dad. Unless he wants to change this you won't be able to change the situation. I told my brother flat out that unless he grew some.... man parts, that he wouldn't be seeing us. It must've worked because he was at Easter and they were all pleasant. It was nice.

You did nothing wrong. Obviously at 15 your dad was your parent. If she didn't like what happened back then then she should blame your dad. Not you.... but you did nothing wrong. She did. I'm sorry but it looks like your best bet is to not communicate with your dad as long as he won't acknowledge what's really going on.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Your brother is always sick, never rides in the same car as his wife and kids and doesn't ever go anywhere out of fear.

Then you told him to grow some balls and Easter was fabulous.

Are you serious?


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I don't think it was the background check. She didn't start looking for a job until this past year. The warrant/arrest was over 2 years ago.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Yes silver I am serious. It's a much longer storey then that but I didn't think I needed to get into it. Sis in law threw my mother out of her home and threatened to call the police if she ever came back. All my mom did was send a msg on fb stating that she liked her profile pic, sis in law responded not to ever communicate with her again, mom printed out and took to my brother. I stand up for my family therefore sent the email that he needs to stand up to her. I don't think he's really standing up to her I just think she was trying to prove she's not abusive. We got along on Easter.... whether it was fake or not it happened.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

--"However, your actions since 2008 are the most disturbing. You never told us what you had done even after you cashed $8500 worth of checks for your wedding. When we were blindsided by this the day before Thanksgiving we were in complete shock. It took us quite a while to figure out what happened and the puzzle pieces are still coming together. You've never once contacted me to see what happened and the impact it's had on my life and your dad's. But what hurts the most is your still lying about it.
I will get my record repaired with or without you. However, you really need to think this situation over and do the right thing. Start with telling the truth." --

Something stinks (yeah a rat smell as Sweeby said)she's implying your actions about something since 2008 is directly impacting her. That does not make sense. She's known since 2008 she was arrested but supposedly case dismissed, yet she is implying that pieces are still just coming together as to why this affects her. She can get this expunged from her record (if it is only as she says it is) all by herself...she needs you for nothing. Why not she just pay the supposedly $1,500 and be done with it. She did not need to drag you into it at all. It would not matter what you think and/or were saying...not that your'e lying, but who cares if you are. It should not affect her chances to expunge.

Are you sure she did not do something else (she makes a stab of pointing out your actions of 'something' since 2008 and tosses in the tidbit about cashing checks). Are you sure it was even the old police report that got her arrested in 2008? It just does not make sense that she is insistant on dragging you into this at this point and supposedly only to satisfy her ego about court cost.

Have you viewed the arrest and court actions of her 2008 incident? I do indeed think you migh tbe correct in thinking there's more to this 'story' they arent' telling you.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I think if they came to arrest her years after it happened, she committed some other transgressions such as possibly RO against her, other abuse charges...

now she might even be under investigation for something else and if she cleans up this record, she might be in less trouble. there is clearly more to the story.

you know what, i agree with justmetoo, she was arrested for something else, and then old record came to the surface. she might be on probation right now and wants to clear her old record as to shorten her sentence.

i suggest you stop all communication to both dad and SM, none, zero. but yes it would be interesting to find out exactly what happened...


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silvers

"Your brother is always sick, never rides in the same car as his wife and kids and doesn't ever go anywhere out of fear.

Then you told him to grow some balls and Easter was fabulous."

silvers, I wouldn't be surprised, some people live in bizarre marriages.

My mom has a friend who is nto allowed to leave the house alone without her DH unless she goes to see her grandkids (not even like hair appointment, he goes with her or throws a big fit). They are in their 60s.

I had a friend (more like acquittance) she was not allowed to talk on the phone when her DH was at home, was not allowed to go anywhere with GFs or have them over, and she was only allowed to leave the house for work and somehting their kid's related. she once signed up for gym with me without his permission, so he said OK but you can only attend on Saturdays at 7AM and be home by 9 when I wake up.

none of these people are extreme traditional/religious type at all, just abusive marriage...


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Geez...now she wants to discuss it with my brother. She sent him an email:

"I know some bad things have happened on both sides of this - some of them are very recent and very painful. Do you think you could communicate with me without one of us flying off the handle? I know you love your dad. I do too."

What does she think, that all of a sudden he is going to decide she is right about the whole thing? She needs to get a darn clue and stop trying to find somebody to argue with. I think she's trying to draw him into it because she hasn't been able to get much of a rise out of me. What a witch.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Now that his woman finally has to face some consequences of her behavior, she's trying to get out of those consequences by manipulating or forcing the people she wronged to get her out of it...
& she expects to succeed, since she has your father as a hostage.

My experience with people who have been longtime victims of abusers is that they'll do anything to placate the abuser, to keep the lid from blowing off *today*.

The abuser will be happy until she gets what she wants, but tomorrow she'll punish her victim for having humiliated her, for having "made" her ask for help.

If you and/or your brother engage in any kind of negotiations with this woman, you'll find yourselves involved forever, & it will not make your father's life any easier.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I'm trying to get my hands on the records, but I'm having a hard time accessing them online and I don't live in that State anymore, so I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get the real story.

Yesterday was my birthday and I didn't hear from my Dad all day. Nothing today either. I'm a little bit shocked that he didn't at least make an attempt to sneak away and wish me a happy birthday. I'm not sure why I'm surprised, but I am.

I was thinking today about this friend of mine. For about a year he dated this girl, and for the first 4 months or so, things were really, really great between them. She was attentive and affectionate and he really fell hard for her. Then as time went on, she grew distant. She started flaking out on him. She'd make plans to come to see him and then not show up and not answer the phone. Whenever he would call her out on her crap, she would have "panic attacks" and cry. It made him feel bad and then she could avoid the confrontation because he didn't want to cause her to have another panic attack. He ended up catching her cheating on him. He broke up with her, but eventually took her back and then she cheated again, so he did finally break up with her for good. But in the mean-time, he kept hoping that things would go back to being the way they were during those first 4 months. He had a hard time accepting that the person he really wanted her to be was not the person she actually was. I think maybe that is the problem I'm having with my Dad. I'm wishing that he was the kind of Dad that I want him to be and that I feel he has the potential to be. I'm wishing it so much that I keep allowing him to throw me under the bus and treat me badly. I keep hoping that things will change and that he'll finally see the light. Obviously that is not going to happen, so I'm going to do my best to cut him out of my life and to not let it bother me. I don't really know if that is possible, but I do know that I can't let him continue to cause this kind of turmoil in my life. It's so toxic. He lies to SM and he lies to me and my brother too. He tells her what she wants to hear and then he tells us that he is sticking up for us. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. I can see his flaws and I always know when he is lying to me. He's not a very good liar. I'm just so torn. I wonder why it is that a parent can continue to disappoint a child and mistreat them and that child still has a heart-felt desire for that parents love and approval.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

I'm so sorry Raek -- (And a belated Happy Birthday)

It sounds like your analysis is spot-on though. And that your Dad is just taking the easy way out, saying whatever to whoever so he won't get yelled at...

Which leaves you in the unenviable position of either accepting him as he is (conflict-averse at the expense of truth and personal integrity), or not accepting him and distancing yourself. Not an easy choice.

A third option might be to express your feelings about his cowardice and avoidance -- but IMO, it's not likely to change anything until your father is good and ready to change himself...


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Sweeby...I've expressed my feelings over and over again. It does no good. He finally called me today and I told him that I deserve better than what I've been getting from him. I said I've needed him to stand up for me and he's not doing it. He keeps saying that he is standing up for me and that they are fighting right now. But I told him that it seems like he is doing whatever she wants and the email he sent only proves that to me. That with that email, he is showing her that he is taking her side and that when he says that he is standing up to her, to me that doesn't mean anything. It's just words. I told him that I can no longer continue to have a relationship with him because he keeps drawing me into this crap with his wife and that it's toxic. He told me that he understands and that he's "in the middle of it right now" and that he "doesn't know what's going to happen". Whatever that means. I almost feel like he isn't taking me seriously, but I really don't guess that it matters if he thinks I'm serious or not. I'm sad about it, but I'm also at peace and I feel that I am making the right decision about this.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

"I wonder why it is that a parent can continue to disappoint a child and mistreat them and that child still has a heart-felt desire for that parents love and approval"

You have a deep-seeded need for your father to be a "good" father. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

I wonder the same thing about DH and his daughter. She lies to his face, doesn't answer his communications, calls another man 'dad', but yet he still texts her saying "you're the best daughter in the whole world." I'm guessing it's his deep-seeded need to believe she IS a good daughter.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

bump


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Why bump? Is this still going on?


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

Just a response to myfam's update post...and yes, it's still an issue...she's certifiable.


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RE: Hateful SM/Spineless Dad

So, get this...My brother and I have drawn a line with our Dad and basically told him that we want nothing further to do with SM. She has caused too much turmoil in our lives, and we are done with it. So, we live on the other side of the country, but planned a vacation to the state where my dad lives (where we also grew up). We are staying about 15 minutes from where he lives. Before this week, he had only seen my 1 1/2 year old daughter one time. So, he knew we were coming and he knew that SM was not welcome to be a part of our time together based on everything she has done over the past 20 years.

So he came to visit on Tuesday, but he was complaining about chest pains due to the anxiety over the fight they had about him coming without her. When he was here, he said that he would come the next day. The next day arrived and he called my brother to tell him "We will meet you at the park". So my brother clarified, "if you are planning to bring her, don't come." And he actually was planning to bring her. I can't imagine what she would have expected, showing up here. I just don't understand a woman who would not allow her husband 4 days with his children. So, we have been here since Tuesday and he has only spent one evening with us. We are leaving on Saturday morning, and the issue is not resolved. I know I should just cut him out of my life, but I just can't for some reason. I should be sleeping right now, but all I can think about is how angry and disappointed I am about this whole situation.


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