I am so sorry to hear about all of the chaos with your DIL. I think that in the end, you or your son is going to have to move towards her only being legally allowed supervised visits on a firm schedule-- what she's doing right now doesn't sound good for anyone, especially your grandson.

One thing jumped out at me in your post-- the ER docs said that your grandson had RSV? If your grandson was premature or had other risk factors, he should have been put on a vaccine for it. It's true that your DIL may not have been able to fake him having RSV, but she could have seriously increased his risk of getting it if she was negligent about the shots (they have to be given monthly during RSV season, and she doesn't sound like someone who would keep up with scheduling and attending those doctor visits). It's not hard to imagine her increasing his risk of other problems that would result in ER visits, just from not taking good care of him.

As exhausting as it would be, have you looked much into the guardianship set-up you described? Maybe if you got started on that, you would feel better? I don't know much about how hard might be to arrange something like that, but I know that sometimes just knowing that I am doing something about a bad situation makes me feel better. Even when the situation itself hasn't actually changed yet.

I don't think it's bi-polar. I think it's immaturity combined with a big dose of selfishness and a big possiblity of drug abuse.

I have very little advice, but a lot of sympathy for you.

Well, minutes after I posted this, she called me. She brought him to my office & said she would be back in a couple of hours... like I am her drop in sitter. She completely acts like I am supposed to be at her beck & call because SHE HAS A LIFE!

So, I decided to tell her that on Monday, I am arranging a drug test for her at a lab. She flew off the handle... called me an OLD LADY THAT JUST WANTS A BABY OF MY OWN AND WANTS TO TAKE HERS. I decided that she can see him again when she passes a drug test... I am done trying to co-parent with her.

Now, legally I don't have a leg to stand on, she can force me to let her have the time per the agreement.. including during the day when he is in daycare. But, if she decides to fight it.. I am going to call my attorney Monday to file for guardianship. It will cost me several thousand if we go that route, but then she would be on supervised through the court and the court would likely order random drug testing too.

It's funny... after she got done telling me that I am an old lady that just wanted another baby... I looked her in the eye and said "do you want him all the time? You're his mother!" and she said no, she doesn't want him all the time because when she has him, she just sits there staring at the wall, rocking him & that is her life. She said she doesn't mind doing it because she is his mother but she needs to have a life too. She said that I had help when my kids were little... I told her no, I had three kids & did it on my own by staying home and BEING A MOTHER first. Yeah, I had no life. I chose to have kids... I gave up certain things to be there for my kids. I had no man paying my bills or giving me money. My parents did not help me take care of my kids, though occasional sent a little money to help out. But my DIL thinks I have no life now. She was shocked that DH & I were out last night.. not sitting at home waiting for her to call if she needs something.

She stormed out, saying it wasn't over. and I know it isn't. It is completely exasperating for me... but I know I need to do what is best for DGS. IF she wants to go to court & prove it's better for him to be with her... I hope she does that. She is his mother and she should step up... but I am not going to be her dumping ground, and she is not going to call the shots... disrupting everyone's life to suit hers.

Ima, sadly her perspective is a common one. Years after I had my DD one of my best friends said that she gave me a lot of credit and had a lot of respect for me because out of all of our friends from high school I was the only one who was actually parenting my child myself. Everyone else was out partying while grandma watched the kid(s). Or kids practically lived with Grandparents. I thought about it and realized she was right. Very sad that I got recognition (although I appreciated it) for doing what a parent is supposed to do: parent their children. I had my dd, and I raised her/am raising her. It's tiring. It can be boring and feel unrewarding. I have empathy for SD, but not sympathy.

That's reserved for you :)

I wonder, does she realize that you KNOW how babies are made and are capable of making your own (obviously!!!)? That if you wanted more, you could have more or adopt more? That the reason you don't/aren't is probably because you've been there/done that and know how much work they are?! What a commitment of time, energy, resources!

grrrr.... stand strong Mama.

what I do not understand is if your son has legal and physical custody why is this child living with his mother?

if your son is unable to take care of him due to being deployed then why aren't other provisions made?

now he slept with her again what if she is pregnant again? This is all just too horrible, what kind of life is that for children? What you describe is not the kind of life for a young child. This is just a viscous cycle!

What are you people talking about...everyone I know in my surrounding raised/raise their own children. yes, parents occasionally babysit but that's about it.

Common perspective???? grandparents raise grandkids and parents party??? In what circles? All of my friends raised their own children. For what type of people is this a common perspective? The way this girl behaves is not common at all.

And what kind of grandparents can raise grandkids? They either work full time or are too old to raise children.

You need some legal advice to protect the child and yourself. Start RIGHT NOW, document everything, time, date, what was said (or threatened) by who etc. Hide the journal and do not tell anyone about it. You must do everything legal to protect your family and your grandchild.

Sovra my son had RSV when he was a little less than a year old. He was not premature or "at risk" for it adn nobody recommended a vaccine for it (maybe there was not a vaccine yet?).

And IMA I know that when my son started in daycare he caught quite a few viruses and colds. The good news is that his immune system must have built up from it because as he got older he stopped getting sick.

Your dil is acting as if you are her servant, coming and going as she pleases. This is not good for you or for your grandson. And if she is using drugs that could be a dangerous situation for your grandson. She could pass out on him for hours at a time and who knows what he could get into! Especially if she leaves out whatever she is using!

Document everything as suggested! And the girl does not have the means to fight for custody, so hopefully it will be pretty easy for you to gain! I know your son is in the military, when does he come back from deployment?

"What are you people talking about...everyone I know in my surrounding raised/raise their own children. yes, parents occasionally babysit but that's about it.

Common perspective???? grandparents raise grandkids and parents party??? In what circles? All of my friends raised their own children. For what type of people is this a common perspective? The way this girl behaves is not common at all.

And what kind of grandparents can raise grandkids? They either work full time or are too old to raise children."

Well, grandparents like Ima :) It's not easy. And when grandparents are 35-40 how does that make them too old? I know many girls who are not raising their own children. We haven't been friends since high school (we have nothing in common anymore) but small town... I hear about them... I see them when I go home.

And these girls are not uneducated, lower socioeconomic class people either.

"She said she doesn't mind doing it because she is his mother but she needs to have a life too. She said that I had help when my kids were little... I told her no, I had three kids & did it on my own by staying home and BEING A MOTHER first."

This is what I meant by common perspective. Many young women have children and think that the women before them had it so easy and had help... and still want to be able to have a "life" (so to speak) after having children.

"what I do not understand is if your son has legal and physical custody why is this child living with his mother?"

The baby lives with me. My son has legal & physical custody. DIL has visitation, including one overnight a week & the most of the weekend. (less than 48 hours)

"if your son is unable to take care of him due to being deployed then why aren't other provisions made?"

Provisions WERE made. They signed a custody agreement giving him custody & giving him the specific right to leave the baby in my care as his attorney in fact while he is gone. I am acting as if I am HIM with Power of attorney.

"now he slept with her again what if she is pregnant again? This is all just too horrible, what kind of life is that for children? What you describe is not the kind of life for a young child. This is just a viscous cycle!"

He has been gone over three months so if she is pregnant again (by him) she'd be showing soon. She admitted to me today that she won't pass a drug test because she smokes a little pot to "UNWIND"... maybe because taking care of her baby for two days in a row is too much for her. I don't know. I work two jobs & raising two kids & dealing with two nut job mothers... I think I need to unwind. I don't even drink... though it's crossed my mind to start!

"What are you people talking about...everyone I know in my surrounding raised/raise their own children. yes, parents occasionally babysit but that's about it.

Common perspective???? grandparents raise grandkids and parents party??? In what circles? All of my friends raised their own children. For what type of people is this a common perspective? The way this girl behaves is not common at all."

I agree. When I was having my kids, it never even occurred to me that anyone other than me would take care of them, except an occasional babysitter that I paid, so being a single mom with not a lot of money, it was definitely occasional, not frequent. I was usually the babysitter for everyone else.. I made a little money while they had fun.. (had a life, I guess) But, I also see how times are changing... I have a niece that has two small kids.... she posts on her myspace & facebook how she is going here & there (she's not working, don't know where they get money from) but they have been to Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, all over without their kids... my brother & SIL keep the kids so my niece & her (now soon to be ex) husband could take off on party weekends with friends.. posting pictures of them drunk & acting stupid. They don't look like responsible parents at all. I see quite a few young parents acting like that... certainly in her circle of friends, that's what they do. If this were my daughter and DGS was my daughter's baby, I would definitely tell her to grow the hell up and take care of the baby she made. I have tried to tell DIL the same thing... but DIL really has something mentally wrong with her. My son compared her to Casey Anthony today... he knows DIL from high school & knows a lot of the other kids DIL is friends with. I agree, people shouldn't have kids if they don't want to be a parent & if they have a kid... too bad if it isn't what you thought it was going to be. This is your child, you made them, you OWE it to them to do right. But, you can't make them do that and right now, the one suffering is my DGS and I can't force DIL to be a mother, I need to protect the baby.

"And what kind of grandparents can raise grandkids? They either work full time or are too old to raise children."

Hey, I'm 41. I hope that's not too old. SD's BM just had a baby and she's 38. I won't say it's too old, but I had my kids... I stayed up all night when they were sick... taught them to eat, dress, bathe, walk & talk... I did all the school stuff... scouts stuff... sports... dealt with teen attitude... and they are now grown up... my goal was to get them out of the house & enjoy the weekends that SD is with her mother to have some alone time with my DH. I thought I had my hands full with dealing with the SD drama... so yeah, having a baby in my life at this point, was NOT part of my plans. I love him & I wish he had a parent that could take care of him so I can spoil him on the weekends & just be grandma.

It sorta infuriates me to have this girl accuse me of wanting to have a baby so I am going to take hers... and accuse me of mistreating him and causing him to be sick, when I have stayed up countless nights taking care of him & get up at 5am to go to work for 10 hours the next day.. and the one day she stayed in the hospital with him overnight, she tells me she needs to go home & sleep for two days... the two days that I am still taking care of HER baby!!!

I have been documenting everything since the day my son left. I have discussed this with my attorney in the past and we thought the written custody agreement would be sufficient because it provides for DIL to receive money from my son, even though she does not have the baby with her. If I get guardianship, not only will she stop getting the money from my son, they will both have to pay support for THEIR child. That isn't a problem for my son as he is already spending far more in what he gives to her & what I uses for the baby right now.

Just an example of her irrationality: She accused me of wanting to take her baby from her so I can have him to myself. I asked if she wants him all the time.. She says no, she has a life... then goes on to tell us that her life is a mess right now & she isn't prepared to be a full time caregiver to him. That makes no sense to me. She doesn't want him all the time, but she wants to have him when she feels like it & she wants to blame me when anything goes wrong... like him getting sick. I told her that he just started daycare & being around all the other babies, they get sick.. he will build up immunity from it. But, he also needs to be taken care of at home, not dragged out at 2:30am because she feels like it. She took him to the hospital last night at 10pm. It was COLD outside. She brought him to my house at 2:30am one night, who knows why? I really just want to scream... or have a good strong drink! I know she's immature, I know she's mentally ill, I know she makes no sense & just won't take responsibility for anything and there is nothing I can do about it. I just need to vent because I have stayed calm through all of her tirades at me & refused to become engaged in battle with her.

I mean, today she started the scene at my work. She went off saying how her own parents won't help her BECAUSE she married my son. (of course, I am thinking that they don't want anything to do with her for the same reason I don't want anything to do with her... she's freaking nuts!) But, my dad was there and told her "then why would you attack the one person that is helping you the most with the baby?" and she tells him that I am not doing ANYTHING for her, that all I think about is myself and I am doing this TO her, not for her. I give up. I told her she can take her son 24/7... she loses daycare, she doesn't need it since she is home all day & if she gets a job, she can get him back into daycare. She asked me why am I doing this to her.. I am blackmailing her to give up her baby! I said, he's YOUR baby. Everything I've done is because I love him, I don't have to do anything.. he's YOUR son! She says, "so either I give up my son to you or you will stop the money and if you stop the money, I can't take care of him... that's no choice at all."

I told her that my only goal is to make sure the baby is safe & taken care of... If she had not been so eager to tell my son about her sexcapades and taunt him to hurt him, he would still be giving her the money & she could do pretty much anything she wants because he's gone for a year. But, she can't resist telling him whatever she can to hurt him & wonders why he gets so angry... she tells me she has no idea why my son hates her so much. Maybe it's because you tell him about all the guys your screwing! And if she could keep peace with me... I have the baby, she gets the money.. isn't that what she wants? and she has to screw that one up too! You can't fix STUPID!

Well she has him right now. She demanded taking him because it's "Her Time" so I had to let her take him, but first thing Monday, I will be having my attorney start the process to gain guardianship... asking for a drug test, supervised visitation & support. (before my son left, he signed a consent to guardianship as well. This has been a concern for months... we were just hoping to avoid it)

My son returns from Afghanistan in February of 2011.

"And when grandparents are 35-40 how does that make them too old?"

I never said it does.

This girl is pretty trashy plus possibly on drugs. Her perspective is twisted. If her perspective is common, common among who? Other drug users? I have hard time believing silvers that your friends have the same perspective, but if that's the case it does not make it common.

The fact that ima is raising her grandson is not common, it is just sad.

she should have EOW or some other arrangements what noncustodial parents have. To have a child 10-5 daily is not what noncustodial parents have. I understand it is hard for you to have him 24/7 because you work (and that's what I said grandparents are either young and work OR too old), but I don't see other options. It is all very difficult but she should not have him for that long. Hopefully guardianship will take place, drug tests and supervised visits only.

If she tells you she smokes pot why is she even allowed unsupervised visits? Let along allowed to have him for the whole day? I know nothing you can do at this point but hopefully legal authorities could do something. i also hope your son divorces her and never has sex with her. It would be horrid for her to have more babies.

finedreams,

I also have heard of other grandparents raising their grandkids because their own children were too immature or irresponsible to raise the child. If you do not believe it happens watch that show that I think is called teen moms. Many of those girls live at home with their parents and their parents take care of the child a lot.

In my own experiences I have known 2 girls whose families took care of their child. One girl had a baby sophmore year with one guy and senior year with another. Her grandparents took care of the first child and the second child was taken care of by his father and father's mom. The other girl I know of was a friend of mine when I was younger. She had a baby sophmore year of high school. Her parents did not believe in abortion or adoption so they had her keep the baby and they raised the baby.

Now that I think of it I recall my dad telling me in his day if a girl got pregnant young and was not married that it was not uncommon for the girl to just disappear for the pregnancy and then reappear afterwards. All of a sudden there would be a new child whom the girls parents were saying was theirs.

My stepmoms oldest sister actually had a child out of wedlock so my stepmoms parents acted as if the child was theirs. My stepmom grew up thinking that she had a younger sister, when in fact it was really her niece.

My SS was raised by his grandparents for the first 4.5 years of his life. The only reason that stopped was because BM moved out of state (my husband was stationed in Japan and Iraq during this time). To this day, SS spends more time with his SF's parents then his BM.

mom2emall, of course it happens, there is plenty of nonsense happening in this world. I never said it does not take place.

It also happens that your SKs' mother is nonexistant and so on. My problem is with "it is common".

I hear and see a lot of craziness, but it does not make it common unless of course we specify...If silvers was praised by her friends for such unusual task as raising her own child, it is very surprising to me.

when you bring examples of children having children in their sophomore year then of course age plays the role, I mean how many 16-year-olds could actually raise children? But we weren't talking about teenagers. 20 is not a child.

and if what DIL does is common, then why even try? Why not just accept that parents cannot take care of their children. It is terrifying that people think it is common.

"To have a child 10-5 daily is not what noncustodial parents have"

She was offered 10-5 because I have to work & daycare was going to cost $1000 a month. We did not know he could get subsidized daycare. But, DIL did not pick him up on time, she would bring him back early or not get him at all. It was very disruptive to try and get work done so I called a child agency that informed me of other options. He was placed after two weeks... and I told DIL for those two weeks that he was on a list for daycare & she still didn't want to stick to the schedule. (I had hopes that she would stick to the schedule because I believe a developing baby needs to be with his mother over daycare when it's possible.) That has been one of my conflicts... she has her moments where she does well & seems nurturing, loving & wants to have him... but it's only when she WANTS. IF something comes up, like friends going 'ghost hunting' or 'hanging out', it's like she thinks she can put baby on a shelf so she can go have a life... and part of that life is smoking pot. She believes it does not matter that she does drugs because she says she only does the drugs when the baby is with me.... that is her logic.

and if what DIL does is common, then why even try?
Alcoholism is common. Child abuse is common. Drunk driving is common...
But we don't give up on trying to make progress with those things.

Pawning your kids off on others (specifically grandparents) is not common in the way that owning a car or working a desk job are common... But it is more common than it should be.

it is common to the certain degree and in certain circles of people but I think it is probably wise to disassociate from this type of trouble. Saying "everyone" parties after having a child does not make much sense? Yes some people party too much, yes some people drive drunk but saying 'everyone' does and it is typical, then i am not so sure. I think when people say that outrageous behavior is common they need to indicate where is it common? I personally never had a girlfriend like imamommy's DIL, neither has DD22, and she has a lot of friends in several countries. this behavior is not common, it is just outrageous.

you can't guarantee 100% that she is only using when a baby is with you. isn't it pot illegal? so how is that she openly tells people she smokes? oh I hope she has to do mandatory screening and is not allowed around her child unsupervised.. nobody using illegal drugs would be with my child unless i am present. but of course people could say that drug use is "common" and everyone they know uses. well too bad.

I could be wrong, but I thought drug use was associated with bi polar. As a way to self medicate, not sure though. I do know that drug/alcohol use sometimes mask mental disorders, so it could be both Ima. Not that that helps you much.

Can you go to court on your sons behalf? I wouldn't trust her at all and from you said, I'd be asking for supervised. The nail polish on the tooth got me. Yes, kids get into stuff and they get sick a lot at daycare. But wouldn't you think if you found your kid got into nail polish, you'd at the least clean it off the kids tooth before taking somewhere?? Somethings wrong with her, could be bipolar, drug addict, post partem depression, whatever. She needs help but the baby needs help more. Take care of what you can, Ima.

i missed nail polish on the tooth comment, wow, agree, that's too scary

LOL. I didn't say everyone. I said the mentality of not wanting to be a parent once it comes about is common. Some buck up and take responsibility and some don't. I have more friends (from high school, not current) who are not raising their kids than who are. And yes, alcohol and drugs I'm sure are a part of that. Drug use is "common". So is alcoholism. So is feeding children Mc. D several times a week. Doesn't make it right.

And yes, the tooth nail polish is amazingly crazy.

Silver - I know exactly what you mean. It's this "entitled" generation (which I technically belong to, but don't fit in). A lot of people I went to high school with got divorced, moved back in with their parents, and their parents take care of the kids while they go out and party.

I was reading a book by Dr. Laura called '10 Stupid Things Couples Do To Mess Up Their Relationships'. Great book, BTW. She used a story in there from a guy that called in to her radio show and actually asked if she thought it was okay if he and his wife gave ther baby to their in-laws for a few years so they could finish college.

WTF????? No! You had sex, you had the baby, you figure out how to make it work!

If you want to check it out, go to:

http://browseinside.harpercollins.com/index.aspx?isbn13=9780060512606

It's page 125. Your jaw will drop at this guy!

Ima, I just want you to know that I dreamt of this post last night. It breaks my heart for your DGS! The best thing you can do for him is to take him away from her. She's not going to step-up and you're just going to have to be a mom...all over again.

I'm like you...I always give people another chance hoping their morals and ethics have kicked in. Unfortunately, my chances have acted more like enabling than a chance for them to redeem their actions.

I'm praying for your situation!

Ashley, I'm part of that generation too :) You get what I'm saying then. With Baby Boomer parents (the last "entitled generation, LOL) the people in their 30's today often had a lot of "guilt-parenting". Many people I know (NOT that I hang out with) party with their parents. And I don't mean getting slopping drunk, I mean, I would go out dancing pre-kids and there would be my friend and her mother, dancing on the floor. Um. Ok. Where are the kids exactly? Not that a woman shouldn't go out dancing after she has kids... but EVERY weekend?

I can't imagine not caring for my child myself. I had a friend in high school whose mother didn't care for her for the first 10 years of her life. She was with a nanny/sitter. Then mom got re-married and took kid to new country. This girl would tell me how much she hated her sdad (he was a complete jerk) and how she would never leave her baby to be raised by someone else. Well, she got pregnant at 16, didn't finish high school, had the baby, still wanted to party and ended up where the baby was adopted by her mother. Yes, her "Grandmother at age 35, mother!!! Holy bat-crap. GRANDMOTHER at 35!! It's a vicious cycle.

Ashley,

Thank you. I need all the prayers I can get right now. My DIL is too much.. like having a room full of crazy BM's! I am wondering if she has multiple personalities.

On Saturday, she accused me of wanting to take DGS so I can have a baby of my own... and when I point blank asked her if she wants him back full time, she said no. She says she can't have a baby full time "at this point" in her life. I mean she flipped from me stealing the baby to saying she can't possibly handle him full time. I was at work and while I was with a customer, she walked out taking DGS with her. By the agreement, she is supposed to have Saturday & Sunday.

Well, Sunday she didn't call or bring him back. On Monday, I talked to my son and he told me what she said to him... everything was twisted. He is upset & does not need to be bothered with worrying about this. He has a job to do over there, he should not have to have her telling him to tell me anything. She can tell me herself, but she tells him & he is frustrated because he is over there and can't do anything. So, Tuesday she calls my daughter to ask for diapers. My daughter takes her diapers & DGS had been taken back to the doctor. I called the doctor's office & was told DGS has an ear infection, but is otherwise okay. So, Tuesday evening, I ask her if she is going to stick to the agreement... she says no, he is staying with her. So, I tell her that I still want a drug test & I had talked to my attorney about guardianship. She told me to bring it on and she would pass a drug test. I told her if she takes a drug test and passes, I will drop everything and she can keep DGS full time. (lol, even though she ranted for ten minutes on Saturday on how that was impossible!) She didn't answer me.

Then today (Wed) she sent me a text at 5pm, telling me my son wanted us to talk. (my son told me on Monday that he told her to have a talk with me) but I did not write back. Less than an hour later, she called me at work & said she had DGS outside & I need to get him. I wasn't shocked but I was in the middle of working... it's a very busy weekend coming up & normally I leave work at 5, it was 6 & I had planned to stay til about 8. I hesitated and she says "well you do want him don't you.. this is what you want, right?" And, I could not say no to taking him. She said she was going to go ahead & stick to our prior agreement. I went outside & there he was... dried boogers on his face, gunk dried on his eye, his little eyes were red and he looked pathetic. She handed him to me without a word & huffed back to her car. She was visibly angry, like I just forced her to give up her child. I took him inside & then noticed he had a fever. I called her and asked when he had last taken medicine. In a very friendly tone, tells me oops I forgot to give you his medicine, I'll be right there. She came inside & this time (mind you, this was about fifteen minutes after she huffed off) she was being sweet & bubbly.. like we were besties. She said she took a video of him taking a few steps and she couldn't wait to show me but she forgot it at home. It was WEIRD. Like a totally different person.

So, I cleaned up and brought DGS home, gave him fever reducer & a bottle. He took a nap and woke up in the evening... we played, he ate, and he went back to sleep. I may finally sleep easier knowing he is here. But, I know she only did this because she wanted to go somewhere tonight. I have to take it one day at a time, because the next time I see or hear from her, I don't know what I'll get.

how terrible, so sorry you have so much stress, hope you find time to rest so you dont go crazy!

is there any way to address it with authorities. how would people react if a noncustodial parent all of a sudden keep their young child way beyond visitations schedule and wouldn't return the kid? wouldn't people do something. isn't it against court agreement?

i don't know who to call, but if she does not return him after visitations, there must be something? call the police? she acts like you and she are the ones to decide who keeps the kid, court decides.

I talked to CPS. The only thing that peaked their interest is that DIL admitted she won't pass a drug test. Everything else... she's the mother & their agreement is just that. It's an agreement, not filed with the court. They signed & notarized it but there is no court case. That makes it kinda unenforceable. (and they won't really do anything about the drug use, unless they find her high WITH the baby. It's VERY frustrating.)

I let her know that if I filed anything with the court, I have that agreement with her notarized signature as evidence that she believes it is in her son's best interest for my son to have both legal & physical custody because it actually states & has the wording "WE BOTH BELIEVE IT IS IN OUR SON'S BEST INTEREST TO HAVE THIS ARRANGEMENT". Both signed it. That would carry weight with a court. and she has gone along with the agreement for months, so she would have a hard time claiming duress, but I can see her saying that. I have wanted to avoid involving the court because it becomes more expensive and adversarial. I really don't think I have a choice anymore though. I need something enforceable. And I told my son that if a Judge, after hearing everything that has gone on, gives her custody, I would accept that. I would not like it or feel good about it, but I would accept it.