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Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Posted by doodleboo (My Page) on
Fri, May 29, 09 at 11:39

So we have ths friend, actually, he is friends with J and with me by defualt. J has known him for fifteen years. Good guy. He has a child with a friend of BM's so we have all been forced to be around each other from time to time. For the daughters B-day parties and such since the twins are friends with her.

These two were never married. They lived together for about six years and then split. The guy stayed very involved with his daughter and even the womans child from a previous relationship. This child had an uninvolved father and grew up calling our friend dad. Our friend treated him as a son and always took him along when he visited with his daughter. He is like I said, a really good guy.

It's been three years since they seperated. The woman has had many boyfriends since while our friend just casually dated....untill recently. He is getting really seriously involved with this beautiful german girl. She is a doll. A total sweetheart.

Ironically, after three years of more or less laid back co-parenting, the ex girlfriend and mother of his child has decided he's a horrible father. Go figure. There was never no issue as long as the guy was uninvolved. Now this woman has the NERVE to demand paternity testing! Our friend is just stunned. For one thing his daughter looks SOOOO much like him it's totally ridiculous that she would even HINT that the child wasn't his!

Why is it as soon as the man gets involved seriously with another woman these women go off the deep end? It's like as long as he was at her beck and call everything was great. He was great dad and they were "such good friends". Now he's neglectful and doesn't spend enough time with the child...etc etc. Nothing has changed except he has a new girlfriend. The chick is pissed because now he has no interest in spending time with HER. The guy see's his daughter as much as he ever has.

Our BM did the same damn thing. Everything was cool untill J moved on. Then she started acting all psychotic and eventually went totally down the drain after we got married and had a baby. Both of these women moved on with other men while still seeing the father of their children. Why then does it stick in their crawl so when the guy gets serious with another woman? DO they seriously think just because they have kids with a guy that they can have their cake and eat it too? Do these woman have ANY identity outside of the man they had children with? Considering the fact that BM still introduces herself as "the bearer of J's children" (no joke) I'm guessing the answer is no. Especially since she has ZERO involvment with said children.

Any thoughts are similar stories? We feel really bad for our friend. He's fixing to have to go through all kinds of legal BS just to be able to continue seeing his daughter.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

So on the basis of two people you say MOST moms are nutty? I question youre judgement.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

In the majority of couples OUR age I know this is how it always goes down. Maybe it's the age difference. Maybe these women still lack maturity. Maybe the people I know have a tendancy to pick crazies. Who knows. I can honestly say I have seen this pattern more than not with our personal friends.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

You know, kk, that statement can go both ways.


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Doodle -- arent you a mom

In the majority of cases I know doodle, man leaves wife (got that wife, not GF) of many years for younger woman. Mom has primary physical custody.

Even with people your age, I think women generally get custody.

I would suggest you are using a faulty sample set.

And your headline did not say -- "All young moms nutty"

From general statistics -- it is not unlikely your child will have a SM at some point.

And colleen, I have never said all SMs are tramps, etc, just that all SMs dont deserve respect.


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another message

Maybe I should ofitled the post "Nutty BM's...not all but most that we know in our age group and circle of friends"

I do realize there are some BM's out there with some damn sense...none of them live in Georgia though:)


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I guess you'll be the first

So again, no moms with common sense in GA? Well if you get divorced, will you be the first??


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I dunno

I don't know KKNY. I can think of two more men that went through similar crap with their ex WIVES right off the top of my head. I also hear the term "my crazy ex wife" uttered by a ton of men. That's a pretty popular statement for the there to be absolutley no truth to it.

Again I'm not saying all BM's and ex-wives are crazy but in a bunch of new marriages it is the EX that causes most of the problems or at the very least can be found at the root of them...not the step children. Maybe the reason fo that is becasue the ex wife DOES almost always gets custody and uses that to her advantage.

I actually found an article written by a psycologist that specialized in family counseling and he said that in most cases it is the ex wife that keeps drama stirred up. I think I posted a link to it on here once. Alot od people would agree with his statement.


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Honestly KKNY

KKNY can't you spot a joke when you read one. Of course there are ex wives with some commom sense and self repect in Georgia. I just don't know any of them but I'm sure they are out there.

All my and J's friends are either single or dealing with the crazy ex. Not many of them have children OR the children are grown and gone.


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Which is it -- joking or serious?

So let me understand this doodle, either you are joking (post at 12:42) or honestly beleive most moms are nutty (post at 12:38).

Did it ever occur to you that many men complain about nutty Xs becasue mom stands up for kids, for CS (which we know rarely all costs), college costs, etc.

Possibly your sample is so limited becuase many moms with custody dont have time for much besides work and kids, so you dont see them.

In any event, your crediblity has gone down with me. You may also want to think about the statisical liklihood of a divorce and how it would effect you. Maybe your X would be calling you nutty becuase you wanted CS eetc.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Was just thinking about this topic this AM..Read an article about a newly named syndrome called Post Traumatic Embitterment, which is being considered as a mental illness. After the trauma, divorce in this case, the person is consumed with revenge thoughts.Nonstop...Rang a bell with me, having been harrassed and tormented for 7 years, beginning the day after ex laid eyes on me..I dont think age has anything to do with it, this woman is long enough in the tooth to have collected a bit of maturity over the years..No signs of letting up, either, Sigh...


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Somebody look up Post Traumantic Embitterment and tell me what specific group of people was used for the majority of this study. 10 freaking bucks says at least three quareters of test subjects were Ex wives.

I betcha I betcha......


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

If you go by the times ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends, & any male person who's ever had a date say "crazy ex/crazy girl/crazy woman"...

we're all nuts!


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Eh, I think men are probably more predisposed to this syndrome, if it even becomes one. Just from reading the description, it sounds more like revenge and anger acts, i.e. stalking. Stalking statistics show that a significant number of women are stalked by an intimate partner by more than 50% than males are.

The article compares post traumatic embitterment to PTSD, I see more women being effected by PTSD.

Not to say that woman can't be stalkers and I do think the majority of the regulars that post here have unique stepfamily situations, so it's probably more common in their situations.

Doodle, about your friend, is it possible you're only getting one side? One of my ex's wives thought I was a nutcase for CS, she came charging into the situation like I was Crazy Mother of the Year. It is possible that this new girlfriend is overstepping and Dad is letting her, IMO that would make him a bad father. I think anytime Dad or Mom lets the new bedmate/spouse take over ALL parenting/co-parenting when there are already two active and involved bio parents they are a bad parent.

So I don't think it always has to do with the bio being insecure, I think there may be real issues with the new spouse overstepping and the bio letting them.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I think BM's tend to go off the deep end after divorce more than BD's because they are *usually* more involved in the child-rearing, less educated, not in the workforce... etc... and have to make bigger lifestyle changes. Also, the person who is *left* tends to go a little crazier than the person who is *leaving*.

In my case, my Ex-h went a little nuts. All of a sudden I was not a fit mother, my mother was crazy... etc. When before I left him I was the perfect mother and my mother was the perfect grandparent and the most trusted, even over his own parents. Go figure. After several years he has come around and actually complimented my parenting, and the parenting skill of my current DH. Also, he has asked my mother to do nannying over the summer.

SOOOOO... Many SM/SF's resent the children of their spouse. They are jealous, they don't have a connection yet and don't know how to make one or want to make the commitment to the child. Many BM/BD's go a little crazy after a divorce, or after the parent of their child finds another lover/spouse. The rules have changed. Maybe they are jealous of the looks/money/character of the new person and can't help comparing themselves negatively to this new person. Maybe they fear their child will prefer the new person. Maybe they are afraid the new person will mistreat their child... etc.

I disagree with you Doodle. " Nutty BM's...not all but most." I would like to re-phrase that to say...

Nutty PARENTS...Nutty PEOPLE...not all but most.


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Oh, drop it!

KK, you need a new bone to gnaw.
I think Doodle was getting something off her chest, and was making a bit of a joke in her title by using an exaggeration that is backed by her personal experience.
And yup, there's boatloads of nutty BMs out there. Not all, probably not even most, but certainly plenty.

There's also plenty of deadbeat dads, snotty kids (bio and step), grandparents with cockeyed perceptions of the modern family, disinterested teachers, power-tripping police officers, right-wing religious nutbars, naive Canadians, the list goes on... When people venting about one person that fits a stereotype, it's easy to broaden it and apply it to more than it really should apply to.
Most people are guilty of it at some point or another.

Maybe should should start harping on every use of exaggeration or hyperbole on GW?
Uh-oh! Someone said their blood is boiling - you need to explain to them that their body temperature is below 40 C, even when they are mad, but the boiling point of most water-based liquids is much higher, 100 C!
Oh no! Someone said they want the lamp sent to them so they can hit their DH with it. You'd better track their IP and call the cops to report a domestic dispute.
Gack! Someone used the term "Disneyland Dad" when they were actually referring to a parenting flaw also seen in women. You should scold them.

Bah. I'm going to go write some more of my thesis now.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Blood boiling is a common phrase.

I dont track IPs -- Ima and others do.

Some dads are Disneyland dads, and so are some moms.

Judging by the comments doodle keeps coming back with, she beleives most moms are nutty -


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Nivea, Stalking with men is a good example, article did mention men obliterating their families..But I was thinking more along the lines the power Custodial mothers wield, withholding visitation, poisoning,bogus court filings,lies, trashing reputation with no basis..


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RE: Nutty Nutty Nutty Nutty Nutty

KK, I think most moms are nutty. I think most people are nutty. It's a bit nutty that you brought Ima into this conversation. And it's a bit nutty that you completely disregarded Ceph's point (I think you did it on purpose because I don't think for one second that you're dumb) about blood boiling.

Yep. Nutty.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Maybe MEN did this to them. They once were young loving beautiful women and along came a MAN who sent them right over the edge... I am JOKING... I think that People split up for a reason and when they are forced to remain close because that is what you do when you have children it causes an un-natural situation for women. In some maybe many cases because of the way women love that they never really turn loose of some of those feelings. It burns when they see someone they once loved and even if they don't want him back. If they were hurt in the break up they like might like to cause a little drama.


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Silver

Silver, I brought Ima up in the context of IP monitoring. When ceph facetiously suggested I do it.

I do see Ceph's point that doodldle is getting something off her chest -- but by attacking a group of people, many of whom did nothing to warrant her attack, she shows a real lack of judgement. She should focus on her problem, and not ascribe judgement errors to people she doesnt know.


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RE: Pointing fingers

You brought up an issue that has been over digested in reference to a facetious statement by Ceph. There was no need to bring Ima's name into it except to point fingers. That's a bit nutty, IMO.

I don't think Doodle was attacking, just venting. In her experience bio-moms get a little crazy. She has not had the experience of being a bio-mom split from the bio-dad. Hopefully she never will. For those of us who know this experience it is a little different.

By your standards of *attacking* you constantly attack SM's. That's a bit unwarranted too. I know many many excellent SM's.

Take a chill pill. This happens to be your soapbox, I get that, but you're acting a bit unreasonable. Doodle, (no offense, I've been there) is still in the first year of birth-breastfeeding-mothering. That tends to be a sensitive time where things are blown a bit out of proportion. Have a little understanding of where she's coming from.


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RE: Bio-Mom's Friend?

And by the way Doodle, this woman is Bio-Mom's friend? That pretty much tells me all I need to know about her.


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hahaha

i'm typing with one hand because i'm pumping with the other...lol.

as far as both sides...yes. we have seen them. there is no merit to any of this womans accusations. she is justtorked that he is seeing another woman. period.

i meant precisely what dotz said....custody, jerking guys around regarding visitation, parental alienation...etc. thats how these women get their revenge. not ALL of tham but a good number of the ones we know.

yesfor sure ALL people can be a little nutty. im talking more fatal attraction-esqe rather than donald duckish though.i'm talking drunken tyrads,crazy texts at 3 in the morning, denying paternity after 8 years, overdosing because you are so bitter...etc.

ceph i WAS totally venting. you are so right. you are also right that we have all made generilizing comments on this message board. Guilty:) I have an opinion based on what I see the most of just like any other person would. It's called past experience and all people base characteristics and opinions based on it. My opinion and views will be diiffrent than others.

P.S. When you said naive Canadians I almost died laughing ;)

KKNY

May I point out that it takes at least an equal amount of failed FIRST marriages to contribute to failed SECOND marriages so it's kindof dumb (and pointless) to brag about this. Arn't you kindof shooting yourself in the foot as a FIRST (not last or current) wife every time you bring this up? also less second marriages fail as a whole because some of them do work so on that track of thinking more second marriages servive than first marriages because it only stands to reason that the first HAD to fail for the second to even exist.


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Silversword

"And by the way Doodle, this woman is Bio-Mom's friend? That pretty much tells me all I need to know about her"

Touche' Silversword....touche'. LOL


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Dotz, I don't know. I think most of those situations are truly unique to each person involved and I'm sorry I don't remember your situation :( There are some stepfamily situations where to me, it is clear cut who is wrong (Doodle, Mom2emall's) and then others here that it just seems so murky. There may be a million reasons why BioMom did what she did, but it seems like the answer is that she is always insecure or needs to show power or jealous of the new relationship, which IMO, is so one dimensional. Humans just don't work that way.

Sweeby's situation is interesting to me that she is able to have an amicable situation with her Ex and the Stepmom, solely due to Sweeby and the stepmom. I wonder had the Stepmom really believed everything Sweeby's Ex said and went along with his game plan and believed his world and situation view, would the situation still be amicable? Would Sweeby be allowed to fight back? Or would she be the jealous ex just for fighting back?

So I guess it all just depends on who exactly you're dealing with. I think many times stepparents can't accurately gauge their situation because they only hear one side and especially women, become emotionally invested. Women want to be fixers. All of the stuff that makes a biomom, stepmoms have too so I find it hard to believe that biomoms are solely the problem, especially when they originated the situation.It seems to me the biggest issue is the common denominator, the Ex Husband, which is rarely talked about it. So many women come here to vent about the stepkids or the biomom, but most of us here see right away it's the husband. How many stepmoms have acted on the stepkids/biomom is the problem and acted in ways that demonstrated that, probably making their situation worse and then still complain it's the stepkids/biomom?

I don't know, lol, but I do find it hard to believe and kind of saddening in a way, that so many women just tear into each other without real knowledge of the person and really all along, it was the man just sitting on his hands causing the problem. Just IMO of course, lol.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Statistically, more second marriages fail than first. I am pointing is that out becasue at some point you may be an X wife. I hope not for the kids sake, but it does happen.

I have seen a number of stats -- but here are the most conservative - I have seen higher, but go google it.

41 percent of first marriages end in divorce.
60 percent of second marriages end in divorce.
73 percent of third marriages end in divorce.

I think you are confusing absolute number of first v. second marriages, versus % ending in divorce.


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Nivea

"especially women, become emotionally invested"

I hear and agree with a good deal of what you are saying. The statement above, however is the exact same reason why I feel so many BM's/ex wives have trouble letting go. I think women as a whole are far more emotional than men and that causes problems in step families.

It casues problems because so many of the ex's stay bitter,controlling and hung up and the the new wifes get defensive, pissed that the woman acts like she is still married to her husband and as a result jealous and territorial. Then you have two women constantly at each others throats.

What pisses me off the most is how the kids quickly turn into pawns. The BM's use them as chess piecess and weapons of mass destruction. Deny visitation, poison the child, put guilt on the kid, alienate the other parent and guilt the other parent by pulling the "your a bad father" card.

The SM's wind up resenting the fact that the kid even exists either on their own accord or as a result of the childs behavior which is probably just a product of the BM's games. Almost always the resentmeant towards the child is just an extension of resentment towards the BM. This by NO MEANS makes it right.

The poor kid is always the one who gets f**cked either way. This little girl has got to be heart broken that her nut job mom is pulling this stunt. She LOVES her daddy. She has probably has been told daddy doesn't want to see her instead of the truth...mommy is being a jealous B*tch. Of course she isn't going to admit that to her daughter.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

And the husband/dad's role in this is?


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Dad's role

Doodle, how many men dump the child-rearing chores on the first woman they can find? I wont say most -- but some? Then mom gets upset when she finds that what was supposed to be visitation with dad, dad is AWOL. It has nothing to do with acting like still being married to dad, it has to do with dad is the parent. And then how many SMs resent that they have to do child rearing chores. But SM loves dad, so she has to find someone else to blame.

Doodle, go along beleiving that the world would be perfect without moms.

And how many SMs, after they get divorced, end up telling first wife -- now I realize the problems.

Doodle, I realize you have an unusual situation. I have always given credit to you. But for you to knock all moms says more about you than it does about the people you have never met.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle and Nivea, I wish there were some actual statisics on how many second wives are hassled by exs, I hate to feel like the Lone Ranger.For me, this began day one,when DH and I started to date, SS said, right in front of me, mom says SHE is going to take all of our money and not let us come to your funeral!!!GEEZ, he was a healthy man at this time, how morbid to say a dumb thing like that to scare the kid..I was dating, not committed to him at the time..SSs mission was to scare me away per mom I guess. There have been numerous slings and arrows since then, oh Doodle, fatal attraction esqe, my favorite is the batch of home made cookies sent to DH (DH has never eaten a cookie in his life, hates sweets, as I m sure she well knows)My DH said THROW that away, she may be trying to make you sick..He oughta know LOL..My stance is never return any emotion to this junk, I retreat, never respond, no commication what so ever...Its not like I m trying to stir it up with her, I have no interest in battling over my DH with her..He s my husband.He does not cause it, we together do not react to it.I dont know what else to do..At this point(not that she s ever going to give up the ghost)I have no desire to be cooperative, or friendly, or whatever.I m certain this will be with us for the reat of the marriage, and neither DH or I have played any part in her wrath..DH says he just wants to handle everything in a professional manner....


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

KKNY...in my mind there is nothing but absolutes. It is nice of you to say that you hope we don't divorce for the sake of the kids. Personally I see us doing what it takes to make it work becasue there ARE kids involved. Two of whom are very fragile thanks to their mother (who, by the way is out of jail and living back with the boyfriend. We have heard nothing from her at all...not so much as a call.)

I do think it is in rather poor taste to use some statistic as a DOOM ON YOU prophecy every time you don't agree with someone though. It makes you sound as if you have, dare I say it, Post Traumatic Embitterment and are out seeking revenge on all step moms by hanging out at a Step Family forum and threatening them with failed marriages.....statistically speaking of course.

Alot of what you say makes good sense but soemtimes I think it is hard for you to see the OTHER side the same as it's hard for me to see the TYPICAL scenario because my situation as a step parent is far far from typical.


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um...just incase you forgot

"Doodle, go along beleiving that the world would be perfect without moms."

KKNY...this statement is ridiculous on so many levels...the first being that I am a mom.

In the girls case they would be better of without one for sure.

And it isn't so much moms I'm knocking here...rather first wives that happen to be moms and then use the kids as a sick bartering tool whenever the man gets into a new relationship.

Do all moms do that? Obviously No. Do a good number of them do that? I have to say yes based on my first hand knowledge. Your experience may be different.


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doodle

Probably in some situations, and maybe it's the majority on this board.

But I think in most typical stepfamily situations, then no, I think it's flipped.

Out of all the parties involved, biomom and biodad have the most accurate view of the situation. I think stepmom's are put in such a pressure filled role that they feel they must DO something, prove something. The exact same emotional feelings that you describe for biomoms after a divorce, I think stepmoms feel upon marriage. And they use an inaccurate portrayal to go by, which leads to more fights and tension. I think many men capitalize on that and goad the stepmom into fighting their battles. And many times the stepmom may be right, mom can do something better or just be a better parent in general, but many times her input is unneeded and unwelcomed, by all parties biomom and children.

The problem with it I see, is that the steps don't recognize their personal situation and act accordingly. If Dad didn't require regular parenting time before, it wasn't Biomoms fault and what are you doing pushing him now? If he didn't do it before, then it's not your battle. Etc. Women will still blame other women for this and convienently forget the 20 years of progressive law giving fathers the same rights. So many will claim mother bias in court, but did Dad follow legal advice for the divorce? Probably not, but most are reluctant to admit it and it's still biomoms fault lol.

And you're absolutely right, it affects the kids and it's not right. IMO, men need to stand up and quit shoving their wives into uncomfortable situations and making BOTH sides, biomom and stepmoms look crazy.


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RE: Kettle/Pot

"Doodle, how many men dump the child-rearing chores on the first woman they can find? I wont say most -- but some? Then mom gets upset when she finds that what was supposed to be visitation with dad, dad is AWOL. It has nothing to do with acting like still being married to dad, it has to do with dad is the parent. And then how many SMs resent that they have to do child rearing chores. But SM loves dad, so she has to find someone else to blame."

This is telling... Mom gets upset, but does not blame dad. SM resents child-work, but can't blame dad, so blames kids. SM's behavior/reaction is commented on.

"But for you to knock all moms says more about you than it does about the people you have never met."

She's not knocking all moms. You are over exaggerating. I think this is a case of Kettle/Pot.


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Doodle

Doodle, I am not seeking doom and gloom, I am just reminding you that when you paint all prior wives with the same brush it may get you at some point. I do see your side, I just ask that you don't use "most" to describe it.


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silversword

"And the husband/dad's role in this is?"

I always see the poor idiot just trying to avoid confrontation and make evryone happy. Of course we all know you can't make EVERYONE happy so the problems start.

Most men I know would rather be watching football or playing guitar rather than engaging in an argument between or with the ex and current wife.


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Dotz

Dotz, that's just awful. She sounds very obssesive and yes, NUTTY. Hopefully it will end at some point, but she's already done damage to her son. That is sad.

Maybe you can look into family counseling for you, DH and SS? it won't stop her, but at least the three of you can get better prepared and maybe it will have less impact on SS done the road.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I get the jist of your statement..and i dont think you are attacking anyone. I myself have a nutty bm....she's less nutty now because she doesn't voice it as much..but it doesnt mean she's not nutty.
And its more than just being a bm. Its being an insecure , overcontroling person , on top of being embittered. That's the type of character my dh has as an ex. She's backed off for now..but she still says stuff.
To top it off, she came plain out and said it after she found out we were dating....'oh, everythign was fine, until maria showed up' ??? oh WTF? Translation: ;DAMN i can't manipulate him anymore and guilt him and control him to get what i want! FME!"
Yup...she kept barking about until my dh told her to stuff it! to get over the divorce and to be happy with her new husband than bark on what is happening with him...cause its none of her business. Marriage over, personal interests out the door for one another , the only interest at heart are the kids, anything else is not to be discussed or harped.
Kids, they saw her as being jealous and immature. Even her own daugther told her to get over it.
And yes nivea, i agree, its the men who must stand up to their ex's and stop using the new wife as a sheild or excuse when they dont want to do something. I've had my hubby do that and i told him dont involve me and stop using me as an excuse for the kids. Luckly the kids dont like either parents the way they behave and i stay clear out of things and out of their little mini wars.
aNd yes doodles...there are many first wives who use their kids as leverage against the father. I've seen it, heard it and its all around us.
Its called woman who do not act their age, who don't have the interest of the kids at heart. Who just want revenge and vindication in their minds.....promoting ones kids to hate another human being is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING! And its now being seen in court , acknowledged and mom can lose custody if she persists down that route. Things are changing....slowly...but they are. And am sure there is study being conducted on divorces, ex wives and their behaviour..and ex husbands as well....
In the end, a bitter ex wife will get what she reaps.....9 times fold. Any human being acting in a selfish manner....even a SM or a SF...ANY one eventually gets a taste of their own medicine.


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Organic Maria

"In the end, a bitter ex wife will get what she reaps.....9 times fold."

You got that one right. The girls mom is an unfortunate example.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

doodle

I think you (and many here), let's put it nicely, use not very classy people/families as examples of some kind of patterns or stereotypes. These aren't classy people, somewhat trashy i would say, so why would you use them as a population sample.

I mean it is like going to a psychiatric hopsital and saying that all people in the world are mentally ill. Com'n BM is mentally ill druggaddict and you use her as an example. Maybe if you will get some classier friends you won't see as much nonsense. There are decent people in Georgia, you just do not hang around them.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"I always see the poor idiot just trying to avoid confrontation and make evryone happy. Of course we all know you can't make EVERYONE happy so the problems start.

Most men I know would rather be watching football or playing guitar rather than engaging in an argument between or with the ex and current wife."

I think that's the problem. Dad doesn't fight his own battles.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"I think that's the problem. Dad doesn't fight his own battles"

BINGO!


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Nivea, SS was a late teen at the time of all the PAS, he is grown and married now. DH and his relationship is almost non existant now..SS number 2 to her credit was not poisoned as much I believe, due to his age at the time (middle school)whereas SS 1 was used as a husband figure to her and he took the bait as to how I ruined all their lives.He despises me..SS 2 and I are fine, get along great..I ve treated both of them equally, picked out gifts to their interests, remembered holidays, gave them jokey gifts,welcomed them here with open arms, SS1 just couldnt respond back..I dont think we need counseling because I realize there are problems around us, but not between us.Not Dhs fault, he has guilt that I came in with the best of intentions, and I get torn to shreds by SS and Ex.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"There are decent people in Georgia, you just do not hang around them."

Excuse and F*ck yyou finedreams but I do have alot of very well to do and respectable friends. LOL. You have alot of nerve sister.

This man in my post is a very well to do respectable guy...he just has a jealous jaded ex. This woman isn't a druggie or anything either. She is just pissed he is involved for the first time inalmost six years. This man waited SIX years to get seriously involved and introduce his daughter to another woman and you have the audacity to say he's probably no good. Wow.

I have a VERY respectable job. I drive a very nice car. I have a very nice little house. I come from a very god family. J has a hard past that he is reforming from. J is the first of his type that I have ever been friendly with and the only reason I got involved is because he is on the straight and narrow. He is a good father and is very talented.

BMis a piece of sh*t and you have absolutely no right basing my worth on her actions. You are ridiculous.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Silver, I never said mom blames SM for dad being awol, mom may very well blame dad.

Doodle, I am sorry I said you call all moms nuts, you clearly only refer to "most" that way.


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more

Oh ok, I thought it just happened. And I didn't mean to imply there problems with your marriage or DH was at fault, I just thought it recently happened and counseling may help play "defense."

That's sad about SS1's relationship, I guess you can always hope he comes around. Does he have kids yet?


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So doodle, where do the mom's come from

Doodle, I think the people that FD was referring to was all the nutty moms you think are representative of moms in general. When pushed for examples, you seem to have a limited group.


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Finedreams cont

This guy in question also owns a recording studio and a limo service in Atlanta. He has had people like the Allman Brothers, Brad Paisley, Madonna and there are many many more use his services.

He makes well well well up in the 100's of thousands a year. He wears suits every where he goes. He is a pretty classy and RICH dude.

Not everyone we hang out with are drug addicts. Just BM and her boyfriends. Get a clue woman.


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KKNY one more time

No I'm pretty sure what Finedreams was getting at is that we are all white trash because BM is crazy. The ex in the OP isn't on drugs. She isn't trashy. She is just bitter that our buddy is involved. She is actually well kept thanks to our buddies booming business in ATL. SO is the daughter and the son that isn't even his.

This woman is friendly with BM but they are nothing alike. Keep in mind BM has gone alot farther down the tubes than she has ever been and this woman hasn't seen her or spoken to her in a year and a half. This woman probaly wouldn't hang out with BM inher current condition.


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Recording/limo dude

So then basically you are saying that "most" moms are nutty based on a sample of a couple?

Owning a recording studio and a limo service doesn't make one clssy -- he may or may not be. Its also likely an area where one meets a wide variety of people and is a cash business - which could end up making for more problems with X.


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Did you

Ok I'm sorry to be an a$$hole but did you morons not read my post? This guy is a hard wroking dad who has been involved with his daughter driving three two times a week all the way from Atlanta to see his daughter and his "son".

He waited almost SIX FULL YEARS to get involved with another woman for the sake of his kid. He has supported them all financially keeping a roof over their heads, nice clothes on their backs...etc.

He works in a very popular industry with very famous people and is still I nice modest guy.

Whats not classy? Please someone tell me. Claiming someone who you know IS a childs father isn't is NOT classy. She has NEVER refused him visitation of refused his money so why now? She is the one being unclassy. It is so obvious it infuru=iates me that the point would even be argued. If he wanted he could use his lawyers and snatch that kid from her....but he doesn't. THAT'S classy.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, I never said he wasnt, just he may or may not be. I wasnt talking about her.

I also think you have extrapolated to a large group of people based on a small sample.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

There is a LARGE group of women from all over the US on this very small board who have nutty BMs..There is also Step talk, numerous other groups, Second Wives Club board who have similar complaints..Its OUR perpective, and we re entitled to it..Who cares if its only ONE, she didnt say that, she s venting and she clearly stated MOST not all..And agreed, FINE TOTALLY out of line with those cracks GEEZ...


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Nivea

Oh, no I didnt feel anything was implied in your post, SS, no kids yet, I feel thats what it will take to get them back together..Soon, I hope, I hate to see DH unhappy;[


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

She said "most" In my dictionary, most means the majority, almost all, etc.

Of course everyone is entiled to their own opinion -- but to say most of the moms are nuts is a statement.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Bahahahaha!
This is waaaaaaaaay better than writing my thesis.

Hey Dotz! Don't forget about me - the representative Canuck!! (PBJ or whatever his name is says he's Canadian... Maybe he's from Ontario.)


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

OOPPSS, Forgot to mention Canada, Australia,and Great Britain, did I leave anyone else out,anyone outside US want to check into the sample? Thank you for pointing out Ceph, its a WORLDWIDE phenomena..LOL Mea Culpa


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Yeah Ceph -- But you're so naive...


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Hey Sweeby - I heard you were selling bridges?!
Sign me up.

LOL!


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Okay... my SD's mom was "nice" until DH and I started getting serious. He has been an involved father and BM considered him her 'best friend' so once he started seeing me seriously and saying 'sorry, ima and I have plans'... off the deep end she went... and everyone knows she's still sinking.... a new low all the time. I'm still waiting for her to hit bottom.

My mom went off the deep end when dad started seeing my SM... trying to hug & kiss him at family parties and trying to make SM jealous... AS IF!

There are lots of ex's that either hang onto hope of reuniting, hoping THEY will find happiness or someone else before their ex does and can't handle it when the other person moves on first, or they are just jealous and insecure for other reasons. and to be fair, there are men that get just as jealous, possessive or insecure as some of women.

In my experience (and I'm not going to name EVERY situation but there have been many... I have around 150 cousins, mostly female), unless the woman finds a guy right away... she goes off the deep end when her ex finds someone else, even if she was the one that left or threw him out... like she wants to toss him out and make him suffer but if some other girl comes along and picks him up, dusts him off and keeps him, she doesn't like that... she wants to see him suffer and grovel back to her. I've seen it COUNTLESS times in my own family.. cousins, aunts, etc.

In my opinion, the nutty ex's outnumber the secure, mature women that leave a relationship and move on without any resentment or jealousies. and wanting to stay friends with an ex is sometimes a sign of a nutty ex that wants to hang on... there's nothing wrong with staying friendly with an ex, that's not the same as being friends. (and not all ex's that remain friends, do so to hang on.. that's not what I'm saying... it's just a possibility that exists in some situations. Unless you have kids together, what need is there to keep an ex around as a friend?)


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Well, among the women I know who are divorced, no one cares much about the x other than child support and how much they see their kids. Wanting to be cordial -- yes; friendly -- no. There is so much to life -- to say finding the right guy is the only answer is insulting to women. I wonder how many second wives are nervous about their man having any relationship with a woman, knowing he has left a marriage or serious relationship once.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Wow, this got heated quickly. The problem that I see here is all the stereotypes being thrown around. Everyone needs to recognize that they are only getting one side of a story. How many men get divorced and do not call the ex nutty? How many women get divorced and do not call the ex nutty? For example, how often will a man admit that he cheated on his wife and was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive, which lead to the divorce? Rarely. How often will a woman admit that the divorce was her fault, that she could have been a better wife? It happens frequently on both sides and unless you hear both sides of a story, which most people will never get, take whatever someone says about their ex with a grain of salt. Make your own judgment based on the actions (that you actually observe) rather than what your new hubby or wife says about their ex. This is a great board to vent, but to go around saying most BMs are nutty is rather ridiculous. To say most BDs are nutty is also ridiculous. As for SMs, I don't think most of them are nutty either, but that is how they are perceived. Sadly, that perception is due many SMs reaction to what the new spouse says about the ex. So, there, in my opinion is the root problem behind all the stereotypes. I've seen this all too often in the family law cases I've handled and the stories I hear from my friends who are family law attorneys.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

doodle I never said you aren't classy, I said people that you describe as a sample of most of the population do not sound classy to me. Owning limo service doesn't automatically makes one classy, maybe he is maybe, he is not. And you did used example of BM as a woman still hung up on J. It sounded funny to me. She certainly represents although a large population of mentally ill and drug addicts etc does not necessarilly represent "the most". That's why i said that hanging around people of this sort would give you a twisted perpective. People I know aren't hung up on exes, they have certain concern for who their exes bring around in terms of how it effects the kids and their well-being, other than that they live their lives. I certainly know no one who wants to give a paternity test to their husbands. The fact that this woman slept wiht more than one man makes her unclassy even if she owns two companies.

I sincerely know no one who has any interest in who their ex is with. Most people are happy they don't need to have their exes around anymore and someone else deals with them LOL People get divorced for a reason.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Interesting... I wonder how many Second husbands are worried that their Trophy wives might leave them for an upgrade.....


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Dotz, the difference is the trophy wife's marketiabilty goes down with age.


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mariealways

"This is a great board to vent, but to go around saying most BMs are nutty is rather ridiculous." voice of reason marie.

maybe doodle will listen to you if she refuses to listen to us.


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kkny

Botox, diet, swell clothes..Going down hard baby....


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

unrelated comment but talking about trophey girlfriend/wives. we went to visit SO's cousin out of state and all 3 of cousin's son are dating (and posibly planning on marrying) exceptionally shallow/uneducated/frankly dumb girls but very pretty wiht great figures and all made up nicely nails, hair etc. We spent the weekend looking at them and guessing why would anyone want to date girls like that. absolutelly nothing to talk to them about. we were bored wiht thenm in few hours at a dinner table, but these guys spend days and days wiht them? guys themslves are college educated and sharp. there are plenty of good looking women who aren't stupid. why oh why some men like girls like that? and BTW one of the girls has a father in his 60s who has a girlfriend in her 30s tall blond with fake breasts. the guy makes A LOT of money though, I guess that's why.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I can understand the guy in his 60s, not his sons. At my Ds HS, the senior girls who are not heading to a good college have more trouble getting dates.


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kkny

I know KK, we can't stop talking about them, it was unusual experience. We honestly do not know girls like that, DD never had friends like that, neither had SO's DDs. I onyl saw girls like that on TV. LOL

We thought of some possible reasons. Cousin and his wife are overly involved wiht their sons, like they give them no freedom, constantly check up on them and manage their daily lives. So maybe because these guys are so controlled by their parents they feel a need to gain control over something or someone: shallow girls? You can't control intelligent women.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

//Somebody look up Post Traumantic Embitterment and tell me what specific group of people was used for the majority of this study. 10 freaking bucks says at least three quareters of test subjects were Ex wives.//

Actually the study was initially done on Eastern Germans who lost jobs and status after the fall of the Berlin wall.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"how many men dump the child-rearing chores on the first woman they can find? I wont say most -- but some? Then mom gets upset when she finds that what was supposed to be visitation with dad, dad is AWOL. It has nothing to do with acting like still being married to dad, it has to do with dad is the parent."

How did I miss this???

How about a mom that dumps her kid off on a newly married dad and stepmom because she thinks dumping her kid on the newlyweds will sour their relationship/end the honeymoon... then when it doesn't break up the newlyweds, but the stepmom builds a relationship with the kid... mom goes apesh!t.

Nutty moms use their kids in the sickest ways!


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I think any parents that shirk child raising are irresponsible -- I just think when people say "MOST" moms are nutty, they lose credibility (unless of course they also say most people are nutty).


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"(unless of course they also say most people are nutty)."

just the fact that we ARE having this conversation might prove your point... don't ya think?

doodle, kkny might feel a whole lot better and give you credibility if you will just say 'most people are nutty'. How 'bout it? Wanna change the topic.... here's my suggestion: "Nutty people... not all but there are lots... even some that will argue forever over the use of ONE word in a topic."


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

KKNY, here are a couple articles I've found interesting concerning SM/BM's and why (I perceive) SM's to find all flaws within the BM. Think you might find them interesting as well.

I can only put one link in the option url, so the first article is there for you to link too. That one is called contesting the myth of the wicked stepmother. It was interesting that study was focused on a stepmother support website.

This last one's comments cracked me up, like they totally missed the point, as in the article was written for the mentally healthy stepfamily, not the unbalanced lol. So anyway, link below for the second.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/283175/exwives_and_stepmoms_when_its_bitterness.html?cat=41

Here is a link that might be useful: Contesting the Myth of the Wicked Stepmother


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more dotz

Dotz, I'm wondering if SS's potential wife would ever be able to get along with her MIL lol. She might be the one to point out the dysfunction to him. I hope a reconciliation comes for your DH soon. It has to be painful.


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Nivea

Very perceptive LOL SS that we are close to already told his dad Mom doesnt like brothers wife...She takes sonhusband away from her TOO much..And grandma doesnt like it either... As if you d expect newlyweds to visit mom and grandma everyday..Also, they dont like sharing them with the new in laws...Saw this one coming..


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That's all I'm saying....

"Okay... my SD's mom was "nice" until DH and I started getting serious."

Thank you Ima. This was my intire purpose of the OP. This seems to be the running theme with most divorcees and new couples I know.

I'm so sorry if some folks here got all pissy pantied over it. This is just a pattern I have observed. May be different for some but this is what I (meaning ME and apparently a good % of others) have noticed.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Well at least now you are only talking about "most" that you know --

Most divorced women that I know are only concerned if X remarries for the following:

1. Will X still be able t meet his financial committments?

2. How will this effect visitation -- visitation is for Dad to maintain relationship, not SM?

How many times has a judge said to a SM or FSM, do I have to give you the SM lecture? Which means, at least according to judges, it is not uncommon for SM to overstep.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"Most divorced women that I know are only concerned if X remarries for the following:"

You are guilty of using "most" in this post alot KKNY. Just because this is what YOU think or the fact that YOU believe YOU have more evidence to the contrary fails to make YOUR opinion no more validated than mine.

There are no percentages as to who is crazier, BM's or SM's. None. It is a ll percieved in the eye of the beholder. I am on the other side of the fence from you and I HAVE seen the other side of the story.

You don't have to agree to with me and with you being an Ex wife I didn't expect you would. There are ALOT of step mom's on here that do.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, you will note that I modified most with "that I know". Had you done that orignally I would not have found your statement so insulting.


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'that I know'

Doodle, you will note that I modified most with "that I know". Had you done that orignally I would not have found your statement so insulting.


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oops sorry double posting

oops hit and wouldnt take at first


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

KKNY, Had a pretty good weekend, and am in a pretty mellow mood today, do not want to squabble, but I ll get 2 things out of the way first 1. Financials OK, DH paying up Check..2. Facilitating visitation DH doing his part Check.....Now WHY do SMs have to put up with interference, slings, digs, alienations,set ups to get DH alone,calls to accountant for private information,ploys to get DH back(telling a kid I m going BLIND)and just general ongoing getting into OUR business? How do you explain your interest in what your Exs SO is doing, ie, who he s cheating with on SO, how she suns herself, doesnt work,SO wants in with friends, relatives and cant, pays for her food only...I couldnt answer any of these questions, dont care WHAT ex does, truly...What practical advice could you give for getting an intrusive BM out of your business?


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

saying "most people THAT I KNOW" is very different from saying "most people". if that's the people you know then you are limiting it to people you spend time with and then the whole topic changes its meaning. It becomes about people that you hang out with, work wiht or overall people of your circle, it could be a tiny circle for example. It excludes people who you do not associate with. Of course there are crazy people in every circle and walks of life however if everyone you know is clearly not fully there, then wouldn't it make you wonder what are you doing with these people?


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

dotz - it seems an awful lot of people here mention what their skids mom does, but I guess it doesnt go both ways.

When Xs SO tells my D that I cheated on him, which I did not, when she sets what I see as not a great example, why can't I vent. Unless this woman monitors this board, and knows who I am, she wouldnt even know about this. I think it is better for me to vent on this board, than her tack of calling me in a drunken stupor.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Dotz,

I choose to give specific examples (and btw, my Sep agrement provides me rights, including what Xs will has to say, and making certain that pre-nup or pre-cohab agreement in place, and says what agreed to), rather than say "most SMs are blah blah blah"

Facts.

1. Very few % of men have primary custoday.

2. Most women finances go down after divorce, most men go up.

I have one friend who is divorced, and a year after the divorce, she sent a letter to the first wife apologizing, that she now realizes the big picture.

And btw Dotx, I never said SM shoudl "facitlitate" custody. She shouldnt get in the way. There is a difference. As said before, if Dad didnt use all visitation before sm, its not up to her to say time isnt enough.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

But I think it does go both ways..I think its hideous for this woman to call you (and I most certainly wouldnt answer)to tell your child you cheated, reprehensible...I just hate all the parsing, ALMOST , ALL, MOST, MORE, its all hair splitting...Its venting on both sides, sure....An awful lot of people here mention what Skids mom do, isnt that what we re here for? In your case, you re not..You are coming from another place...


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I think it is very common for people to have children and then split up and meet someone who is unaware of the entire situation and thus takes sides.

The fact is, the people who made the children together obviously were close enough for that to happen. Whatever happened to end the relationship can only be know in detail to the people involved. For anyone else to completely understand is impossible.

Most of the people I know with children are still together. I don't know any with the kind of stepfamily dramas as are played out on this board. (maybe I hang out in the wrong places? :)

I think that some SM's really do have the best interests of the children at heart. Many fathers want to spend more time with their kids but don't want to fight about it, so give up. SM's come along, encourage the relationship (that's what women do best!) and while I agree with KK that the SM shouldn't get in the way of the relationship between father and child, often it's good that they get involved so the father is encouraged to get more visitation.

IMO, anything that promotes more involvement between fathers and children is for the best interest of the child. Unless the parent is completely unfit I think children should know their parents.

KK, I think if you vented that the SM of your DD is making inappropriate comments to your DD people here would be receptive. I have had a "wicked" stepmother, I know how conniving they can be, and I have a Bio-mom, and I know how wicked she can be too!!! All SM's are not fabulous and neither are all Bio-moms. Some SM's have the childrens best interest at heart and some don't. I think most of us are just fumbling along the best we can.


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Not most

No its not hair splitting. If I said most [insert whatever ethnic or racial group you wanted] are nuts based on the few I know, it would be terrible. If I said one person I work with who happens to be a particular group is usually late to meetings, that is a fact.


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Silver

Silver, as to SM or FSM encouraging more visitation, it has to viewed in context of each situation. When it is mentioned in the same paragraph as CS, I guestion it. When I got divorced, I made certain a lot of money went to benefit of child, not to me (college, car, camp, horse, etc) -- and guess what, no one is fighting me for time, becasue it doesnt pay.


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I didnt

say, or mean me facilitating visitation, I mean my DH, not my job...Silver, I really dont think its of any importance why the ex happy couple broke up(unless it would effect me,abuser, cheater). I dont really have any issues with visitation or finances,but my main issue is effects on my DH and his health and well being from the constant barrage of negativity...Every week there is an issue or two(this weeks for example, no grad info or tickets, sigh, which as usual I take it to mean, call me, beg me, and I ll tell you what a jerk you are (DH will not call to ask because of violent shouting matches on her end in the past)teenage SS has been asked to pay for half of furnace in BMs house(which, correct me if I m wrong is NUTTY)He complains to DH, DH stresses out, stresses me out to worry about his health...What can you do?


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I agree it has to be viewed in context of each situation. As does ANYTHING. No one is fighting me for time because I won't fight over it and I didn't attach money/CS to time spent. I made sure I got custody because b-dads situation was not healthy, but it is now, and I'm more than happy for dd to see her dad as much as she wants. But the stability (school, etc) is with me. I've set up my life so that she has a very stable home.

On the other hand, I am a SM who encourages more time with SD. My DH is really quite tired of fighting Bio-mom. We would be in court 24-7 if it were up to her. His DD has a good home life, with a kind SF and a little sister. I am advocating getting SD to our home this summer when my DD is visiting her father. I will be traveling for part of the summer so she and her dad can have the house to themselves and then when I get back we can have some time just the three of us. I advocate their relationship. She and I can be friends but as she has an actively participating/willing/able mother there is no place for me as a mother figure. I'm fine with that. I consider her my step-daughter as I feel responsible for her but I admit, not as responsible as my daughter because she has two parents already. I'm just a bonus adult who cares. I just really would like her and my DD to get to know one another (a person can never have too many sisters/brothers) and for her to spend time with the fabulous father she has. I think it's a sin to keep children from their parents if they are capable people.

I agree, Doodle, you should have said "most bio-moms I know who are not with the bio-dads anymore are nutty".

And I think you're beating a dead horse KKNY.

I have to touch on the subject of "class" here. Just because a person has money does not make them classy. Trashy behavior is not restricted to the poor. I have met millionaires with absolutely no class, and people living in a shack with more class than a queen. As my momma used to say "trash comes in all colors".


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

No grad info? Does your DH not know the phone number or website to the school (no big deal, mine doesnt either -- but yes I twice emailed him the info on it -- and then has the nerve to get upset when I susgets how we divide up -- like anyone cares if he gets angry).

If the complaint or request is not justified, he should not worry.


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School phone?

I meant my Ds Dad doesnt know school phone or web, pls do not read anything into that, I was comparing two dads.


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Yes

DH does have the date via school website, that is why he wondering why ss didnt invite him..He also knows there is a limited number of tickets, and suspects BM has allocated them to her relatives leaving DH out...SS gets along better with his dad than his mother..I think shes putting SS in a corner here..He adores his dad, and would most assuredly want his dad there, but suspect BM is looking for a confrontation..There is no communication between them, I mean BM and DH...There are no other seats given, other than ticketed seats, its one of those what can you do? Storm her house and grab the tickets out of her purse?I m sad for SS to be put in this situation...


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Right to my opinion

All I know is who I know. All I can pull an opinion from is of cases I have seen or heard. This is my base of understanding. For me this is MOST. When I say most I mean most of those I am informed about. It would be pretty clear cases I know nothing of wouldn't be included in any generilization since I wouldn't KNOW the situation at all. When I said MOST I just assumed people here would get it but obviously there are folks looking for a beef.

This is TOTALLY a case of splitting hairs and it proves my point IMHO how MOST BM's are freaking NUTTY! They get bent out of shape over the dumbest things and the ones who do are always bitter and jilted. KKNY with her "eye candy" comments and depressing statistics just proves a theory. I'm sorry but the more the horse gets beat the more I feel justified in my statement.


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Not my statistics

So doodle, if the twins come home from school and say most [insert group] are x or y, what do you say?

Instead of just admitting that you overstated, you go on and on.

And any statistics I have may be depressing (as in when women's financial situation generally deteriates on divorce), but they aren't my statisics, they are pretty common.


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Work??

Its actually pretty scary that you purport to work with children in the state of Florida and you think "most" moms are nutty -- what exactly do you do?


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Dotz, "Silver, I really dont think its of any importance why the ex happy couple broke up(unless it would effect me,abuser, cheater)."

It may not be for you. Some people are sane and stable and are able to see relationships as just not working rather than putting all the blame on the ex-wife or husband. Part of that also comes from the other ex-spouse and how they handle talking about their prior relationship with their new spouse. If they put all the blame on their ex it's more likely that the new spouse will blame the ex for everything that went on.

In my case I take responsibility for my failings in my past relationship. I know I have flaws. A marriage rarely is over due to complete fault of one person. But a lot of the time the new spouse takes over the anger of their DH/DW and then goes around saying how the Bio-mom or dad is incompetent or an a** or or or based on what they've heard rather than first-hand knowledge.

My mother used to do this with her friends. Say "Sally" and her husband had a fight. He won't do the dishes. Mother then gets all in the middle of it and pretty soon, even though Sally isn't mad at her DH anymore Mother will not let it go. The poor man is thus branded forever because his wife vented one time. I think that second husbands, but more often wives, pick up the torch of disgruntlement/victim from their spouse and then carry it around a lot longer.

I have to try very hard not to make my DH a saint and his ex a nut job just because that's his perspective. Allowing a spouse to vent without fighting the fight for them is difficult.


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Silver

Lots of good points Silver. As I m thinking about this, neither my DH or I wanted to divorce..We both feel when we discuss Exs that we both had intractable partners, non salvagable situations.. Only difference was I left, DH was asked to leave..My ex does not involve himself in any way in our lives...BM in DHs case does, and This is the Nutty BM thread..We have both discussed the feelings we have that both Exs have mental disorders that they both refused to get help for, so here we are shed of them and happier than either of us have ever been in our lives, as far as marriage goes..Neither of us consider ourselves perfect, I think, but neither of us feel we contributed to any great extent to the demise of the marriages..If they would have changed or compromised, we both probably still be married....Funny, in both our cases, the Exs imposed their will on us 100%,my way or the highway until the breaking point.What my ex would say, he treated me like a princess..What DH ex would say, I made a mistake getting rid of you, my guess..


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

no one has the first knowledge of what is going on in anyone's private life. plus what is good for one person might be awful for another. some people put up with stuff that others never would. someone might think the person is a great parent from outside but who really knows? so generalizations and assumptions are useless.

and I think when people say in anger that most (insert) are on welfare that most (insert) are lazy, that most (insert) are promiscous etc etc they only call for trouble. so let's say not most, but some, or people that you know. give up. generalizations aren't useful. venting is great but let's vent about people we know in person, not general groups of people.

agree wiht silvers by the way. making large amounts of money doesn't make one classy.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Dotz, I totally understand. My ex-husband was diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and was a drug addict. I understand crazy. He hid it well, but I had signs and ignored them. That's how I contributed to the failure of our marriage. I should have gotten him help. I should have done more. But I wanted out. And he takes responsibility now, which helps a lot in us being civil and me not bad-mouthing him. And FD, generalizations don't work. You're right. Although I do think that most mothers are nutty. We are. C'mon, admit it!

I have to reiterate:

You can't buy class. And it doesn't matter if you hang out with cool people, that doesn't make you cool by proxy. I've hung out with movie and music stars in very casual situations, have had them helping me decorate my Christmas tree and even had dinner and drinks with some that I didn't know were famous until after... when my friends said "do you know who that was?". LOL. The good thing about my ignorance is I could form a completely unbiased opinion. My status didn't go up one iota. Of course, a lot of status is simply in a persons mind and has nothing to do with reality.

To me, a person has class if they don't try to embarass others. If they feed children and animals that come across their path. If they don't rub their accomplishments in the face of others. Class is helping someone when you will get nothing from it. Class is intangible and unnoticeable in its purest form. Class is giving credit where it's due and not expecting a thank you or acknowledgement.

Class is not driving a BMW. It is not Madonna or Tom Cruise. Class is humble. Class is Mother Teresa. Class is Lady Diana.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

There are so many things I could say about this but...

Doodle, my concern is you've pretty much identified your "friend" by describing his businesses (and I have to agree that income and who you hobnob with has little to do with class) and I'm sure that's not your intention. I would suggest you contact the moderators of gardenweb and ask that they amend your post where you mention his businesses, or ask that they delete the whole thread (I understand you were mostly venting) because I doubt he'd be thrilled you're discussing him so identifiably. Just a suggestion.


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what makes one classy

I would add that class is not bad mouthing one's exspouse, especially if other people know that person. Men, who go around and talk to everybody how crazy are their exwives (and not on anonymous forums but in real life), are not classy men.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

FD, you are so right, my sister is married to someone on a second marriage, and has a SS. My sister says BIL never says a bad word about X, even though she left him. BIL never has bad word to say about Xs current DH.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, I'm going to go back to the topic and see if I can address it:

"Why then does it stick in their crawl so when the guy gets serious with another woman? DO they seriously think just because they have kids with a guy that they can have their cake and eat it too? Do these woman have ANY identity outside of the man they had children with? Considering the fact that BM still introduces herself as "the bearer of J's children" (no joke) I'm guessing the answer is no."

The best example of this in my life is my mother. My parents were married for over ten years prior to me being born. They had active, successful lives. They owned houses, cars, went on vacations, were well liked by their spouses families, etc. Stereotypical middle-classed well educated Americans. When they divorced my mother moved on and remarried six or so years later. My dad didn't remarry for 16 years. His wife constantly rubs him in my mother's face. . (news flash... she left him!) My mother takes her little pot-shots by interjecting in very subtle ways that she is A) the mother of his child and B) that they had a rich history together and C) that she supported him through grad school and D) that they have interests that SM does not care about or know about so she looks like a little kid while they discuss the latest developments in their field and such and E) they are peers while my SM is 10 years younger. You get the picture. SM acts like she's the shiznit because she "has" my dad (prize that he is) and BM retaliates.

In other words, I think SM's sometimes have an air of superiority that can "stick" in a BM's craw and make her do irrational things. (In my SM's case, her superior attitude is a combination of things, one of which is her inferiority complex). SM's often act as if they think they are better than BM's because they now have the man. Often the BM knows he has flaws that SM has not realized yet and it irks her to no end that this woman is holding up the tattered toy she just threw to the ground and acting like it's a brand new object of desire.

Also, BM's know that the man probably told the SM unflattering things about her and that is an uncomfortable position to be in. AND... there is the worry that the child will be A) mistreated or B) the SM will make a relationship and then leave and the BM will be left to pick up the pieces or C) the SM will sabotage the Bio relationship.

And FD you are spot on. I totally agree. I have done my share of badmouthing but never where my DD could hear. Now that the sting is out of the wound it rarely happens, but that was a very unclassy trait of mine. Taking the higher road is something I'm still learning!!!


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Sigh

Pjb-

There are alot of folks who do what he does in ATL and make tons of money from it. Those two industries are pretty big there. I really don't think he'd lose any sleep anyway since nothing negative was said about him.

Finedreams and Silver

As far as class and money....The only reason I mentioned his money is because the way Finedreams put her opinion out there made me feel like she was saying we were all trailer trash drug addicts. That is far from the truth. The big majority of J's friends are pretty dang successful and ironically really nice decent people.

J was doing REALLY well as well when he was touring but when he got clean three years ago he walked away from the scene for awhile. He's just now easing back into it. let me put it to you this way, if he was back on the road with Kid Rock, Govt. Mule or Hank williams III money would not be an issue for us right now. He has chosen to be sober and he is taking it very very seriously. He doesn't want to jump out of the pan into the fire.

This guy in the OP is not just rich...he's humble. Which to me shows class. He is still frinds with his friends. Not many people have that much character. I also mentioned that he took in a child that wasn't his financially and emotionally. That to me shows great class and kindness as well. He also refrained from getting involved with another woman for six years and even then waited 7 months before introducing his children to the woman....again that to me shows class AND sensitivity. He is just a good guy all around.

Everyone here got hung up on the money thing. Money can turn people into @ssholes but it didn't with this guy. That is the only reason I factor his job/money into the class catagory.


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Silversword

"Also, BM's know that the man probably told the SM unflattering things about her"

I think she was guilty around me because she knew she was a cruddy mother. I think she felt really cruddy once she left the girls with us and left me holding the mommy bag. She won't even look me in the eyes now. I think the problem is her insecurities and I think that's been the problem from the start.

Plus she really does still love J even though it was her that cheated on him with the old BF. She told me she did countless times. This is not something I imagined. She straight up told me she was still in love with him and I should go away so they could be a family again. She also accused me of stealing him away but I didn't even know who he was untill after they had split and we didn't "hang out" with each other till after the divorce.

In my case BM is just hung up. It's just that simple. Addicts have trouble letting things go. They also tend to be control freaks. I think her hang up is part of the reason she is going down hill. Once we got pregnant she really went off the deep end and more or less dropped off the face of the earth. She won't even LOOK at baby.


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Silversword more

"Often the BM knows he has flaws that SM has not realized yet and it irks her to no end that this woman is holding up the tattered toy she just threw to the ground and acting like it's a brand new object of desire."

Sometimes it's the woman who was a pain in @ss to live with. Sometimes it is the ex wife who was the tattered "toy". It's not always the man who was flawed in the relationship, sometimes it's the woman. Sometimes those flaws that caused tifts in the failed marriage carry over and continue to cause tifts in the new marriage....double that propability if there are chldren in the picture.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I think you have to factor in the dynamics of every relationship is different..Same husband, two uniquely different types of marriages...


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, that's why I said OFTEN. Not ALWAYS. You're asking why BM's are nutty. I'm giving answers from a BM point of view. It doesn't mean it applies in your situation or any situation you know of.

I think the USUALLY in relationships can only be applied to USUALLY it's the fault of both parties that they broke up.

You say that "J" has not always been clean and sober. Have you considered that he may have played a good part in her being an addict? Sure, she's off the deep end now, but who was caring for the children while they were both addicts? It's great "J" has made a change and is now being responsible but I think you are exemplifying my statement that SM's often pick up the torch and carry it for the husband. Seen from an outsider's POV it appears to me that you are more willing to forgive "J's" past indescretions than excuse BM's. She's a "nut" and a "cruddy mother" while "J" is ok because he is a recovering addict.

I'm sorry Doodle, I don't want to be harsh, and it's apparent "J" has taken some really big steps to ensure the safety of his children, which is commendable. And it's apparent that you have taken on a large responsibility for these girls, which is commendable as well. BUT, here is the BUT... he contributed to Bio mom's demise. It sounds to me, and I could be wrong, but it sure seems like they were a happy dysfunctional family, doing the drug scene and whooping it up before you were in the picture. It makes me question if the kids were born on drugs? It's easy to throw rocks in a hole once you're out of the hole yourself. Now you are throwing the rocks for "J". Just my opinion.


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Silver

J will admit he was not perfect in the marriage...he isn't the one who moved another man in the house though. That was the straw that broke the perverbial donkeys back.

J has also realized the error of his ways and has made HUGE strides and sacrifices to do better....BM has not. She is still riding hard on the party bus.

J was also willing to be amicable because he was over BM and just wanted everyone to get along for the girls... BM made this IMPOSSIBLE because she was very much so NOT over J.

He didn't push her buttons or cause her demise. That was all her doing. She could of just as easily of tried to get clean when he did while they were still married. He was already working on getting sober while they were still married. He could never get fully sober till he left her because addicts can not live with addicts. He was really trying for the sake of the kids though.

BM has had many chances since to do right....she just won't. You can't blame J or anyone else for her situation. She put herself there. She ditched the marriage and after he remarried she decided she screwed up. That's no ones fault but her own.

J is not throwing rocks.....he is trying to keep them from hitting the girls. You can't fault him for that. You can't accuse him of being holier than thou for that either. Just because he hasn't always been "perfect" doesn't mean he has no right to protect his kids now.


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post script

BM was an addict and screwed up way before J came along. She shot herself with the shot gun when she was only 18....10 years before they even met.

She has always had issues...J didn't not make her an addict. They met becasue at the time they were hanging with the same crowds. He doesn't socialize with any of those people now.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, I'm not blaming "J". I'm just pointing out the gray area that exists in relationships. Saying that addicts cannot live with addicts is true. Since he was an addict as well, that statement could easily be reversed.

He hit bottom. She hasn't yet. It doesn't mean you should do anything different or that because he made mistakes in the past it means he shouldn't do better in the future. But again, this goes both ways. I'm impressed that your family unit is as accomplished as it is considering the hurdles you have had to overcome. You have my respect in what you are doing for the girls and the stability you are providing. It is hard to overcome addiction. "J" deserves a lot of credit for getting his life together for his children. It's really too bad that BM is not in that place yet. Hopefully for the sake of her children she will be able to regain stability.


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More post script

The girls were not drug babies. I asked J. That's something I needed to know. BM DID manage to stop druggin' during the pregncy. SHe wasn't as unstable then as she is now so she was able to do that.

We keep hoping maybe she'll snap out of it too but it seems she is willing to go alot lower than J ever did before she decides to make an effort towards recovery.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I have some negative stuff to say about my X, but I don't, although i am tempted. I never ever said anything to my SO, actually my SO said some mean things about his X and it bothers me tremendously. I think it is low but he is improving. As about me I do not encourage him to say bad things about her, I don't think it is my place to bash somebody else's exspouses. people are often angry or resentful of their exes and it clouds their perception and it would be childish of me to engage into that or encourage it.


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recovery

If J used drugs with his exwife, or at the same time as her then i don't think it is his job to judge her. He is in recovery, but maybe she is not strong enough to be in recovery. drug addicts or alcoholics always remain ones, they stop using but they do not stop being addicted. i think they should be humbled by the fact that they could stop but other people couldn't.

i also think that he needs to be greatful to you for taking care of his children, you work and support 3 children and him. You took a huge task on yourself at rather young age.

Just to add that if like you say BM was drug addict and crazy before they met, then why and how did he end up wiht her and even had children. i think he is as guilty as she.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"BM was an addict and screwed up way before J came along. She shot herself with the shot gun when she was only 18....10 years before they even met.

She has always had issues...J didn't not make her an addict."

And yet he married her. He had kids with a woman with a history of drug abuse, addiction, issues. Not a judgment. I did something very similar. But an observation. You are not on this road because BM is who she is. You are on this road because J made choices at one point in his life that is now forever going to have an effect on your life, and on the life of his children/your children.

What about J? Was he on drugs while the girls were conceived? When they were born? My point is that it's easy to point fingers and say "BM's are nutty" but it's pretty nutty IMO to get married and pregnant with an addict. That is nuts.

I stand by my original statement that people are nuts. Myself included. I do my best to make good choices and still I look back and say, wow, that was a poor decision. I was not thinking clearly. Obviously, anyone looking at me would say "she's nuts".

And, it's a lot easier to look at things with some perspective once it's already happened and in the past. I can look back and say, yes, marrying a man who had substance abuse problems 15 years before you met him and is now clean is probably not the best choice. Why? Because those who had problems in the past are more likely to repeat those problems in the future. In my case, my Ex went back to the drugs. This does not always happen, and I'm not saying it will happen to you. But, on my part, in my situation this was a bad decision. Remember that sperm can be damaged from drug use as well. It takes two halves to make a baby. And while the 9mos is extremely important, having healthy sperm in the beginning is also highly desirable.

I married an ex-addict who had a relapse. Then I divorced him. And then I acted righteous and with indignation that his behavior was inappropriate and he was acting crazy. At the time I felt completely justified. Now with some perspective on my own, individual situation I can see how I created this and should have had a little more understanding and expectation of the outcome. I feel like a giant "DUH" was stamped on my forehead. What did I expect?

Marry an ex drug addict. He relapses. I leave him and crush his world. He goes nuts. I stand back and point my finger at him saying he's nuts. Now how did I create this situation again?

LOL. We've all made mistakes.


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Reasoning

Finedreams-

He is not as guilty as her. He had his part in the girls being born but he has nothing to do with BM's current actions. He has not been her husband for going on four years. How can he be resposible for mistakes she is making in her personal life now? Seriously? How could that even be hinted at?

When he met her he was not a clean stable person himself. She said she could not get pregnant and with him being the drug addled person he was then...he believed her. Ta-Dah. Thus the girls were born.

He begain to see the possibility of his children going to state (this was when BM started getting REALLY bad) so he made a choice and got his butt clean....so far the fear of her kids never seeing her again isn't worth kicking the habit to BM. Right now she'd rather get high. He made a CHOICE. He doesn't even smoke cigarretes anymore! BM can make the same choice whenever she wants. Nobody is holding a gun to her ehad forcing her to keep making bad choices.

He is VERY grateful and tells me this constantly. He loves me I think more than he has loved any other adult in his life. He has actually told me this on a few occasions. Why? I don't know. I don't know why he is different with me. Maybe it was because he got clean, maybe he grew up, maybe I just showed him love when he needed it most. All I know is he tells me he loves and appreciates me at least tweenty times a day and he means it everytime he says it. His father told me that J told him I was a "god send". I think J trully feels that way.

He is getting more serious about his spirituality now as well. He feels all of this, including meeting me, was in the "plan". Our meeting was no accident.

J does not judge his ex. Far from it. He just refuses to put the girls through anymore than they have already been through. I don't think that's being judgy, I think that's being smart. He has told BM it is nothing personal at least fifty times.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle, this is a complex situation. Again, as I have said, you are to be commeneded for the effort you have made with your skids.

When you say I know that the kids are not drug babies, I asked J. Please listen to me relying on a husband for a truthful version of the facts can be a mistake.

What scares me is that you apparently have a job with the State of Florida that involves children and yet stereotype mothers based on a limited sample. That is a disgrace.


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Silversword another post

I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your personal story.

J did his drugs on the road. That doesn't make it right but at least he didn't have drugs in the house with the girls. That was one of the things that caused alot of fights between he and BM. She would have a bunch of druggies over and have parties in the house with the kids in their room sleeping...etc.

J is not judging BM. She is crazy though. J is not mentally unstable. He was an addict but he never had hang ups or mental issues after the divorce. He was the one who was done "wrong" but he still walked away with out making a scene and was amicable to the new BF.

He took the high road. He got clean, he got new friends, he met a decent gal and when the time came he got his kids. He is doing his very best now to keep them safe. He has guilt for those first years of their life and he is more than making up for that now.

For the record...they got pregnant first and then married because of the pregnancy. Being pregnant is NEVER a good reason to get married and he knows that now. He looks back and sees alot of the mistakes he has made clearly now. Hindsight is 20/20 afterall. What matters is whether or not you make a proactive change. J has. BM has not.


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kkny

I don't work with the parents KKNY. I work with the kids. ANy personal feelings I have does not affect the child's services I assure so you can stop calling me disgrace now. I get kids therapy if they need it....I don't do marriage counseling. If I was a Divorce Lawyer or a State Marriage Counselor your comment moght make some damn sense.


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Doodle

If you deal with any children from divorced families, I find it difficult to understand how your incredible disrespect for MOST mothers is not relevant. You are biased. It may be the result of the situation you are in, but when you say MOST moms are nuts, you are biased. You should not be dealing with children from divorced families.


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shocking news flash!

Most of the high ballers in the house and the senate are soem of the most racist, judgemental, stereotyping b@st@rds you would ever want to meet.

People have personal opinions outside of their jobs. That may come as a big shocker to some (KKNY) but it's true! People have opinions that maybe sometimes arn't PC. ALL AND I DO MEAN ALL people do. Some just are too high and mighty to admit it.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"When he met her he was not a clean stable person himself. She said she could not get pregnant and with him being the drug addled person he was then...he believed her. Ta-Dah. Thus the girls were born."

He had unprotected sex, she had unprotected sex and she is blamed. You say 'J' does not blame his ex, but you do. I understand you and him not wanting to put the girls through anything more. But I don't think you understand the perspective from which I'm speaking. You are saying the girls were not drug babies. If J was on drugs when they were conceived, they were drug babies. He created a situation in which a drug-addict would be the mother of his children. Yes, he is equally responsible for where you and he and the children are right now. For this situation. Not for her individual choices now.

You are exemplifying my point that SM's often go to bat for the Biodad against the Biomom. Why would J badmouth BM? You do it for him!

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, and I don't want to judge you. I simply don't think you have enough experience as a mother, as a divorcee, as a partner to see the situation as you have show it to us; clearly.

Since J was also drugged out it is likely BM had a different idea of what was going to happen than what did happen. If J did not get sober with her, while she was sober for the 9 months the girls were in utero then he is an enabler for her to return to drugs. He should accept responsibility for the outcome. No, he is not responsible 100%. But he is not an innocent.

Casting you as the "rescuing savior" is also very common. I have no doubt you are a good influence. But this cycle is so often repeated. You are good, therefore she must be bad in order for the stereotypes to continue. Your goodness is balanced by her badness. Role-playing at it's worst.


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I have no clue

I don't even know which families are divorced KKNY because I don't deal wit the paretns. Even if I DID I wouldn't say "Oh I'm sorry, your kid needs therapy but since you are divorced I hope you rot." Get real girl.

I only have distain for the nut jobs who I KNOW have been nasty, underhanded, trouble making, child brain scrambling, step mother harassing pains in the behind! It just happens they are MOST of the personal NOT JOB RELATED but personal cases I know.

I could honestly give two sh*ts whether or not a child I see parents are divorced or not. The only way I would care is if there was subsequent emotional residue and the child needed some kindof therapy. Then I would break my back to make sure that child got it. You do not know me KKNY.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"You should not be dealing with children from divorced families."

Really??? I guess kkny should not deal with men... or pretty women (eye candy)??? After all, under kkny's theory ~ you can't be biased yet fair.

KKNY, does that mean you treat differently at work, men or pretty young things that remind you of exH's eye candy?


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State of Florida against moms??

Of course people have opinions -- but when they directly relate to their state jobs that deal with children AND they dont try to deal with their biases, it is a disgrace.


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Ima

Ima, I dont work for the state. I dont have the authority to suggest/require treatment for children. I dont ask anyone if they are married to someone who has been married before. I work with some attractive people, some not attractive people, and it doesnt effect me. Most of my peers are men, and I work with them just fine.

But I guess it is OK by you if State of Florida workers invovled with children are biased agaisnt moms.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I am a good person SIlver.

She is bad.

J used to be bad but he is improving more and more every day.

There is no role playing. We all are what we are. J takes his blame. I have given him plenty of hell for his past decisions. J and I have moved on. We have the girls. They are in a safe and loving environment.

When ever BM decides to step up we will be glad to work with her. Right now though she is living with her current choices. There is nothing we can do about that. J has no hand in that and neither do I.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"J did his drugs on the road. That doesn't make it right but at least he didn't have drugs in the house with the girls."

Justification. They were both doing drugs. He could go on the road, she had to stay home with the kids. I think in that case it would be expected that she would do the drugs in the home. She didn't have the "out" that he did. Equally horrendous.

"J is not judging BM. She is crazy though."

You are judging her. He doesn't have to. You are fighting the fight for him. Don't feel bad, this is extremely common. "Crazy" is an illness. She is a sick woman. No excuses, but a little understanding and compassion would be the higher road.

"J is not mentally unstable. He was an addict but he never had hang ups or mental issues after the divorce."

Wow. I think someone would need to be mentally unstable to think it's ok to do drugs on the road, leaving your wife/mother of twins at home knowing she has had a drug problem in the past and all your common friends are drug addicts and not expect that in the postpartum depression and stress of taking care of not one but two children would have a high probability of her relapsing.

"He was the one who was done "wrong"..."

Oh Doodle! He did her wrong too! She brought another man in the house. Well, he was on the road, gone, doing drugs and expecting her to be the little wifey at home. I think this is a clear case of dual responsibility for the outcome.

"What matters is whether or not you make a proactive change. J has. BM has not."

That is true. But I think that should be amended to say that "J has made a proactive change and BM has not as of this date". There is not a cut-off line of when it is ok to get your life together and when it is just too late. That is something built in to the Christian philosophy. The sinner who repents on his deathbed is not looked upon with less favor than the one who repented four years ago.


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RE: Good... and Bad...

Doodle, I have no doubt you are a "good" person. As I wrote above, and I feel needs reiteration:

"I'm impressed that your family unit is as accomplished as it is considering the hurdles you have had to overcome. You have my respect in what you are doing for the girls and the stability you are providing. "J" deserves a lot of credit for getting his life together for his children."

But "good" and "bad" are judgment calls. "There is nothing we can do about that. J has no hand in that and neither do I. "

I think that there is a lot of power in what we put out to the universe. Continuing to call her names, label her and diminish J's role in this situation does not benefit her or you. J may have taken responsibility and you may have "...given him plenty of hell for his past decisions..." but you have not moved on if you still harbor so much venom for this woman.

This is just my opinion. I don't know you, and from what I can tell you seem to be a very responsible, kind, generous woman. I'm just calling it as I see it.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

doodle you said she was on drugs and crazy way before they have met yet he married her and had children. and you are saying he is not responsible for any of it? he was way over 18, right?

then you said he is off drugs for 3 years but kids are 5-6, so he's been doing drugs while he had kids. yet you are saying he is not responsible for any of it only she is.

we don't know if children were conceived while he was under the influence but he did drugs after children were born. yet you are saying he is not responsible for any of it.

so what makes him not being responsible for his actions?

he's been only off drugs for 3 years and he already is so much more superior to those who are still using. why so? 3 years is a very short time to make such judgements of others who are in the same boat.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Yes I judge her Silversword. I think I have said that. I honestly blame her. He doesn't. I am with in my right to think of her in any I want. I have never been high ir strung out.I have never chose my personal life over a child....let alone my own.

I have seen her do some pretty jacked up things both to me and the girls. I am not going to forgive her for those things simply because my husband USE to have an addiction. He had an addiction 3 and a half years ago. That holds no sway on my feelings for her now.

I never said I didn't blame her. I totally do. I don't fight for him though. I have very little actual contact with BM. He does all those dealings. He makes all of those calls. I don't go to bat for him except on her because everyone always seems to want to tear him apart because of his past.

No one here has the perfect family or they wouldn't have a reason to post here to begin with. If you didn't ahve some sortof issue Silverasword, you wouldn't be here. I dare one poster to claim their husband/wife is perfect. That's not life. You can't bring up any flaws or concern here or they get shoved back in your face fifty posts later.

As far as him being on the road...she wasn't complaining when she was using his money was she? Again, she knew he was a musician and she still chose to risk getting pregnant. I feel she did it on purpose even. Your view point can go two ways Silver. She KNEW what she was getting into as well as I did when I married J. She knew what he was just as well as I knew he had a crazy ex. Same damn thing. What you said about me KNOWING the situation and J KNOWING she was a user but still getting her pregnant also applies to her KNOWING he had been a musician for his entire life! What is good of the goose is good for the gander....am I right or are you goig to have the nerve to contradict yourself here?

I didn't justify the drug use either. I said at least he wasn't doing it in front of or around the kids. Even F*cked up he always had more sense and self control than BM. She never used any control and kept getting progressively worse while J got progressively better. That cycle is still continuing. J will be awarded custody of those girls as a result. The Judge will Judge her.

As far as cut off dates...that is just stupid. We have held out hope for three years. I am not going to add a little cliff's note on the end of every conversation about BM about how she "might" get better. "Yes, the girls mom is still strung out.....that's subject to change though" I have said we hope she gets better but we are not holding our breaths. She is pretty much dying from the damage she has done to her body. If she repents on her death bed she is square with god but what about her kids??????


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Read my post finedreams

I have given J plenty of hell for his hand in the past mistakes. J takes his share of the blame as well. As far as either of us taking the blame for BM's current condition. HELL NO WE DON'T.

He doesn't think he is superior either. Has he got on here and posted a message to you all telling you how much better than BM he is? No he hasn't.
He has never posted on here at all so I don't understand where you get the idea that he feels superior????

He is deffinatly a better parent than her now. That's just bloody obviouss.


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as for venom

My venom and disgust towards BM will dissapear as soon as she makes an honest effort to do right by her kids.

As for right now....I wouldn't piss on her to put a fire out and that's my perogative. I have no ties to her and I don't have to like her.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"But I guess it is OK by you if State of Florida workers invovled with children are biased agaisnt moms."

Well, I worked for social services and despised people that abused the system but it was my job to deal with them. It was my job to issue benefits to lazy people that won't work and I hated it, but I am a fair person so even if I don't agree with the rules and regulations, I carried them out and gave them what the regulations say they were entitled to (and I hate that word too). I don't need to 'deal' with my biases.... I cannot stand lazy people that won't work and abuse the system and that will probably never change. I see nothing wrong with having my own personal opinion and it never impacted my ability to do my job.

Perhaps it would be a problem for you but not everyone carries their personal biases over into work... currently, I don't care for some of the people that hire me to serve their papers. I don't have to agree with them to do my job. My job is to provide a service, it does not mean I have to like every person that hires me, nor do I have to agree with them. and I don't know why you would think someone should be held to a higher standard just because they work in a public servant capacity versus private company.... don't ethics matter to EVERYONE? In fact, public employees are held to following regulations and specific guidelines... where a private employee is more likely to make decisions based on their personal beliefs.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Ima, I dont now where you have stats to back up your beleives that private employees are "more likely . . . "

You mention your dislike of people who abuse the system. That is different than doodle's dislike and belittlement of mothers. I don't treat people differently becasue of who they are. I have said that.

I dont think the State of Florida should employ anyone in a child related field if they feel comfortable belittling "most" mothers. Its not right.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

of course nobody is perfect but people should admit responsibility.

maybe J doesn't see himself as superior but you sure do. you blame her and see her the only responsible one, yet they both used drugs and had babies while on drugs. and no, mentally stable people do not have babies wiht drugaddicts and do not marry them.

there is no such thing as "used" to have addiction. people remain addicts or alcoholics their entire life even if they aren't currently using.

and doolde the reason he didn't do drugs in front of his kids is because he was not home, he was gone while druggaddicted mother was there wiht the kids. what kind of justification is that? how is it better?

and what is with the musician? plenty of musicians are clean people and what kind of reasoning is that, how is that even relevant? if he would be drugg addicted garbage collector, would you even mention his job?

it is pointless to be that mad at sick addicted person, let J get custody if he is currently clean and hopefully stays this way and take care of the children (but if he doesn't work would he even get custody?)


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r u smoking weed kkny

Once again...I am a mother. I am not knocking mothers. I am knocking ex wives who start acting like they eat paint chips for fun when their ex moves on.

I don't know what to tell you hon but all my supervisores would tell you is as long as my opinions do not affect my job, and they don't, they don't care what they are.

You would fing even more disgraceful that the majority of them have delt with similar situations and would probably agree with me any way. We don't discuss it at work but I can assure you off the clock I have had a number of co-workers call their husbands ex crazy.


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fine

"and what is with the musician?"

I was refering to him being gone on the road. She knew he was a musician and would be gone on the road.
I do put blame of past incidents on j but i do not at all blame him for bm's cluster f*ck life now. that is her bad.

drugs run deep in the music scene hon. they dont all do it but alot of them do. j toured for almost fifteen years....he would know.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"am I right or are you goig to have the nerve to contradict yourself here? "

Nope. I've said time and again that the responsibility should be shared. You are accusing BM's of being nutty, and I am saying exactly what you just said above "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" or "it takes two to tango".

I'm saying that while BM's may be nutty, usually nutty behavior is provoked. You are defensive of J. That is understandable. I don't think my spouse, or anyone are perfect. I already admitted my mistakes readily and my hand in it.

In my situation my ex had been clean for 15 years PRIOR to us meeting. He was home every night. We both had high status, high paying jobs and lived in a nice home and drove nice cars. We were a "nice" family. I had some indications but I ignored them. I believed him. My mistake. I take responsibility for marrying an ex-addict. Relapse rates for addictive diseases usually are in the range of 50% to 90%. Those aren't very good odds. I found out later he and his parents had withheld information from me regarding his mental issues. I didn't know he was bi-polar. That explained a lot.

Doodle, I'm afraid you dug a hole and can't get out now. I'm offering my hand. This is a really sticky subject and I don't want to bash on J or on you. Please understand though, if you put out statements like "ex wives who start acting like they eat paint chips for fun when their ex moves on" will provoke responses like those above. From what I can see, J knew she ate paint chips for fun when he met her. Normal, well adjusted people do not shoot themselves with guns. He had indications. As did I. Hopefully you will not have to endure the horror of divorce and looking at your ex-marriage with the kind of microscope that many of the rest of us have. I do wish you the best. Know that you are in the tunnel of first marriage, and once a person has gone through that particular tunnel it does look different from the other side.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

"Continuing to call her names, label her and diminish J's role in this situation does not benefit her or you."

She is all the things I call her and more. J's only role in the situation as it stands is to protect the girls. It does me plenty good. I blow off steam and normally feel much better when I unload.

"you blame her and see her the only responsible one,"

WRONG! Read my damn posts. I just don't hold him responsible for BM's current state:

" He had his part in the girls being born but he has nothing to do with BM's current actions."

"I have given him plenty of hell for his past decisions."

"there is no such thing as "used" to have addiction. people remain addicts or alcoholics their entire life even if they aren't currently using."

Thanks for stating the obvious but I have already said this:

"J was doing REALLY well as well when he was touring but when he got clean three years ago he walked away from the scene for awhile. He's just now easing back into it. let me put it to you this way, if he was back on the road with Kid Rock, Govt. Mule or Hank williams III money would not be an issue for us right now. He has chosen to be sober and he is taking it very very seriously. He doesn't want to jump out of the pan into the fire."

He knows that the music scene is full of drugs so he is taking it slowly. He gave up his IMMENSE love to play in order to get and stay clean. Can't you at least give him snaps for that.

J is doing great now and seem more happy to tear him apart than the dumb cow who is still strung out sitting in jail right now.


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RE: Blame?

"I honestly blame her. He doesn't"

Why doesn't he blame her?


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silver

i am not denying his part in the failed marriage or anything leading up to the divorce. i will not sit here and say he is responsible for her actions now.

he is divorced. he has nothing to do with her personal life. that is her puppy. that is all im saying.

she did act like a loon when we started dating and it was not provoked. it was some of those true colors coming out. they continued to come out and run together untill the woman was a bigger mess than a Salvadore Dali.


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I am so over this post

He doesn't blame her because he isn't the blaming kind. He also does have guilt about having a hand in the PAST mistakes...getting BM pregnant, marrying her, taking 2 and half years to get serious about getting clean. KEY WORD HERE IS PAST. He feels bad he screwed up IN THE PAST. THA PAST. Back when he actually had a hand in the goings on.

He does not take any responsibility for the fact that she is still on the drugs, has a failing liver, has hapatitus, has an abusive boyfriend, doesn't see her kids, has no job or car or home, and is sitting in jail on two felony charges. He most absolutely does not blame himself for that. He has said her current position is her own fault and he doesn't feel sorry for her. He shouldn't either. He got clean before he got that far she could have as well.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

I very rarely bash my Ex. Not that I don't have things to complain about lol, but compared to this board, most of it is very minor.

But anyway, I feel that my choice in him is a direct reflection of me. So basically I'm complaining about myself too, don't know if I'm saying this right. But yes, when people do talk about their ex or their current spouses ex, I suspect a lot of people judge the complainer just for choosing to be affiliated with the "bad" person lol. I think that is why J doesn't blame or say anything.

But Doodle has every right to her opinions of their mother. Sure it's clouded with bias, but I think it's only natural in her situation.

There are other situations on the board where I definitely think the new wife has no business making judgement calls or how would they even know anything about them personally, but Doodle has actual verifiable and valid reasons IMO. The mother is not around and a drug addict, I agree that J is not innocent but I don't see Doodle saying he is.

but I still disagree that most moms are nutty lol. Most moms I know are darn good moms, even divorced ones. Fathers are too. There's very few people that I can point to and say they are an awful parent (excluding my mentally ill stepmother lol) I just see people with different parenting philosphies and different ways. And I see that a lot here too, BM has a different way but the SM must find a way to make it BAD. See the two articles I posted above for reference lol.

Silver, I think you made a lot of great points in this thread btw.


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RE: Nutty BM's...not all but most.

Doodle - in response to your OP: My situation with my SO is a perfect example of this. She cheated on him, left him, filed for divorce, moved back in forcing him to leave his home, tricked him in the divorce papers (yes, I know SO was stupid), married another man less than a year after the divorce, and got pregnant 8 months after the marriage. All of this before I even entered SO's life.

I dated SO for 4+ years before we took a 6-month "break" a couple of years ago. BM was always okay with me being involved in their DD's life. I would help out with the all-consuming extra-curricular activity I've written of in the past, and she was always nice. I attended all concerts and softball games and birthday parties. She even used to invite my DS to the birthday parties. While SO and I were split, she even told him that she hoped he and I got back together because she had "no problem" with me.

That all changed when we did get back together. She started demanding their DD come home early on Sundays, picking her up from our house on Saturdays and Sundays in the middle of the day for some impromptu errand that had to be run, telling her to lie to SO about something as small as going to Red Lobster, and then (the big one) moving 10 hours away and limiting her visits here. She will be here for only 2 days and this will be her first visit since Christmas. On top of that, BM is "bringing" her because they are on their way to a family vacation (BM wont tell us if she will be available for OUR vacation).

Its been really hard for me. I truly love my SOs DD and have tried to forge a friendship with her. BM had no problem with it for a long time, but then she severed it and its painful.

This is a double standard, though. BM started having her call SF "Dad" when BM got pregnant. The excuse "They dont want to confuse the baby". Do you know how much it hurts SO when hes talking to his DD that he hasnt seen in 5 months and she accidentally calls her SF "Dad"? Its a damn-near fatal blow every time. BM also has her buy Fathers Day gifts for SF and spend time with him that day, taking away time with SO. About a year and a half ago, BM called their DD at 1 PM to go home right that minute. She was at work and yelling at her on the phone. She wasnt even home! SF was. The gist of the tirade was that SO was doing something for a couple of hours and so I made plans with his DD to go shopping and get lunch. Not all day. Just a couple hours.

KKNY said "In the majority of cases I know doodle, man leaves wife (got that wife, not GF) of many years for younger woman. Mom has primary physical custody."

This is simply not true. I am the one that left my marriage and, shockingly enough, I had pretty solid reasons to get my son out of that life. And it didnt include me having another man, either.


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Majority

Hey, wait a sec, doesnt majority mean most? As in a majority of cases? I m just sayin...


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