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Naming a child--not SF related

Posted by lovehadley (My Page) on
Mon, May 17, 10 at 10:50

Tell me your thoughts on this please.

My grandparents have 2 children (my mom and uncle), 7 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren.

My grandma has 3 nieces whom they are very close to. One of those nieces got pregnant when she was 14 (back in the late 1960s) and gave birth to a daughter, whom she was forced to give up for adoption.

I will call that daughter *Jane.* Jane was adopted by loving parents and grew up in a normal, nuclear family with an older (also adopted) brother. At age 20, she did a search and found her birth-mother, my grandparents' niece.

She and her birthmom have a FABULOUS friendship, and are extremely close. They celebrate Mother's Day together with Jane's adoptive mother, sometimes vacation together, etc. Jane is now married and has a son and he calls both of his grandmas "grandma."

Let me just prefice this with saying--I am not a huge fan of Jane and her DH. They are nice enough, but they are seriously two of THE most self-absorbed people I have ever met. The type that bring a PHOTO ALBUM of pics of their son to pass around a party. The type that go on and on and on about wonderful and precocious and charming and hilarious ETC their child is, and just assume that EVERYONE ELSE is just as enchanted with him as they are.

I went to Jane's first wedding to her previous DH, then to her second wedding with her current DH, to her baby shower and I have been to 3 of her son's 5 birthday parties.

I invited Jane and her DH to my wedding and they did not respond, send a gift or anything. RUDE. EVERYONE else in the family either was there or RSVPd. I invited their son (who my DD really likes) to DD's bday party last weekend and they said they didn't know if he could make it but would let me know. They never did.

Anyway, it is not just me---they are just like this. People just shrug and say "oh, that's how they are." Yet they expect EVERYONE to attend ANYTHING they throw for themselves or their son.

And they suck up to my grandparents like you would NOT believe. (My grandparents are extremely wealthy, and youjust cannot tell me that's not at the bakc of Jane and her DH's minds.)

ANYWAY---they are expecting another baby and recently found out it's a girl. And they announced that the baby will be named ADELINE, after my grandmother, Jessica's great-aunt.

The kicker is---my cousin and his wife are really upset! My cousin, who is the ELDEST GRANDCHILD of Adeline, I might add) has wanted to use that name for his daughter since he was a child.

He and his wife have been married for 6 years, are both finally finished with grad school, and are beginning to think about starting their family.

Anyway, I heard from them over the weekend how upset they are over this name issue. I just personally feel like something should be said to Jane & her DH. UGH. I don't know. I know they are entitled to name their child after anyone they wish to, but still...it seems ODD to me that with Jane's mom and birthmom and adotpive grandmothers both alive, that she would choose to name her child after her great-aunt, whom she did not even KNOW until she was 20 years old. (She is now 36.)

And then there is my cousin, 30, the FIRSTBORN GRANDCHILD a nd he feels he cannot use our grandma's name now. :(

What do you think? Should something be delicately mentioned to Jane and her DH, just a casual "oh, what a beautiful name, did you know A & his wife were hoping to use that?"

Or leave it alone?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Well I think that if your cousin feels that strongly about the name he would be the one who could say something to Jane. Maybe a comment like "I love that name as well and my wife and I ARE also planning on using that name for our first daughter". Perhaps Jane will not like that idea then? And if she still choses to name her child Adeline then it will be up to your other cousin if he still wishes to use it. Nobody can make Jane not use the name.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I agree with Mom2emall. We had a similar thing happen in our family. My late sister and our first cousin were both pregnant at the same time. My sister's due date was a few months after our cousin's. My sister had picked out the names of her future kids long before she became pregnant. My sister and cousin were at a family function and they were discussing what they were going to name their kids. My cousin told her that she loved the name my sister selected for a boy because it was different. Time passes and my cousin has a boy and stole the name. My sister was livid. A few months later my nephew was born and my sister stuck with the name. Our cousin was then the angry one. Touche'.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Yeah--I told my cousin and his wife that they should still use the name, no matter what. Unfortunately, (and I can see their point) they feel it is less special once it's been used. They wanted to use it a) because they love the name but b) because they want to honor our grandmother.

The slightly amusing thing is----Jane and her DH plan on calling the baby Addie, which my grandma despises! (although she would never tell them that.) My cousin and his wife would use the full name, Adeline, so that makes it different. I hope if they have a girl, they still use it.

BM stole the name DH & I had originally picked out for a girl. About 4 years ago, we picked out the name Bella for a baby girl. DH---in all his usual stupidity---told BM the name, and shortly thereafter, she got pregnant with her now-2-year old little girl. Imagine my horror when she announced the name---Isabella, Bella for short.

I was SO ANGRY at DH over that one!!!

The funny thing is, now I don't even like the name anymore!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Honestly I think it's a tiny bit presumptuous to think that you can reserve a name for your possible future children, eldest grandchild or not. By all means he can request that she choose something else, but "Jane" certainly has the right to name her child whatever she wants, and certainly if she wants to name her after her great-aunt. Otherwise, just have an Addie and an Adeline; my family is part Irish Catholic, and there are so many John Joseph's and Joseph John's that you wouldn't believe it. It doesn't mean that the original one was any less honored; rather more so because there were lots of kids named after them!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I agree with mattie. In my parents' culture, it was tradition to name the kids after the grandparents. I might say, almost an obligatory tradition. First after the father's parents, then after the mother's. So in my generation there was a daughter in every family on my father's side with that same name, and the ones who had sons all had the grandfather's name. On my mother's side, there were also several cousins with the same name.

Now, I realize this is a different situation than what you are describing, but my point is that it's not the end of the world if there is more than one kid within the family who gets the same name. I don't think it makes it any less special. And I agree that the person whose name is being used will be happy and honored no matter how many are named after her (or him).

Personally, I'd not give it another thought. Especially since your cousin cannot possibly know if he will even ever have a daughter.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I agree with the others -- Let it go. Yeah, it's very possibly done for all the wrong reasons, but your Grandma's not blind or mentally feeble. Little 'Addie' will probably score a few extra nice baby gifts, but with two children and three beloved nieces still living, I doubt Jane will rake in quite the largesse she may be hoping for.

(And I wouldn't tip her off about Grandma hating the 'Addie' nickname.)


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

lovehadley,

I usually agree with you and appreciate your thoughtful support BUT on this one, I can speak from personal experience.

My middle name is a family name as well and that's the name I have always gone by. My grandmother's middle name. I have first and second cousins (the children of my first cousins) with the same name. There are a bunch of us!!! I am the only one who uses this name, my middle name, as my "given" name meaning everyone calls me by this name including at least 5 close cousins who have the same name, plus grandma now deceased! That makes 6 close in ages, 7 including Grandma with the same name.

Because I am the only one called by this name originating with my parents and sister, LOL, everyone in the family calls me this widely used name including all of my cousins with the same name who go by their other first or middle names. No one makes a fuss, I am the one and only "true" X-family name, the others go by other names. There is never any confusion when they refer to me as X-family name, I feel no tarnish at all and they don't either. I like that we share a name, so do they as we have talked about it in the past.

I guess my mother planted her flag early. It is a complete non issue. I would love for someone else in the family to use "our" name although I often remind the others that we share a common name. Everyone knows, no one cares to the extent that even the holders of the name have to be reminded! DS7 is named after my own sister who had a unisex name and everyone loves calling him "little X"

My mother did do me the favor of spelling my name a little differently than everyone else's by dropping one letter. Didn't change the pronunciation but it is as unique as an overworked family name will ever be. That has gotten me over!

Honey, DON'T make an issue. Tell "Jane" the same thing. Lots of families use the same names over and over and over. Mine is a perfect example. It's old fashioned for sure but we accept it because all of the parents did. Naming kids after grandparents and relatives is just so common. In fact, my nose got a little out of joint for a second when one of my relatives used my sister's name for her baby while I was pregnant with mine, already knowing I would name him that. Oh, well, who was I to say anything when I had cousins older than me deferring to my ownership of my name?

Shoot, when the smoke clears their child may end up being known as Pookie anyway! I have a bunch of adult relatives still referred to by childhood nicknames including my own father. In his 80's with relatives still call him XXXXX.


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LH - to add

"My cousin, who is the ELDEST GRANDCHILD of Adeline, I might add) has wanted to use that name for his daughter since he was a child." lovehadley

The eldest grandchild of my grandmother was given Our name before I was born, gave the name as a middle name to her own daughter, AFTER I WAS BORN and named, but the name became mine, this being my eldest first cousin who never used it. I am the only one who uses it. I can't testify about how my aunt, my mother's sister, felt about me being named the same family name as her oldest daughter, who is the oldest out of our group of grandkids/first cousins, but my aunt, my mother's sister only calls me that name as does my cousin. If there was a problem, I'm unaware and I'm sure it's long since been forgotten. Like I said, I "own" the name, the others just list it, hee hee hee. Point being, everyone, if they care, will get over it.

It's a major compliment to have someone named after you. I was personally thrilled each time a younger cousin inherited "me and Grandma's" name. OH yeah, ownership is serious! But, I come from two old-fashioned families on both side, my mother's side all share names. There are a couple of cousins named after her ya know? You wouldn't know it from the way we refer to each other but everyone knows who everyone is and the origin of their names.

Lovehadley, it's a good thing. We may sound like we just came down from hill country but we just rotate family names a lot. Like I said, another relative named her son after my sister before My son was born destined to hold that name as well. I felt propriety too, like, "this my sister who are you?" Now, DS7 and his cousin love calling each other the same name, it's cute, it's fun. it's family. Brought us all closer to be honest.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"their child may end up being known as Pookie anyway!"

My cousin & his wife both had names that were easy to add a "Y" to for nicknames (think "Joey", "Donny", "Annie"), so they determined that their little firstborn would never have to bear that irritation, & they named her Michelle.

& *they*, their own selves, to this day (she's nearly 40) call her "Mushy".

I too think "Grandma's not blind or senile";
having attained her age, having run into all the people who have wanted to ingratiate themselves with her to curry financial favor, she probly knows the score.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

lol, Sylvia... I would have thought of calling her "shelley" ; Mushy is much worse... lmao


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

If one does not have children and is not even pregnant, what gives them the right to reserve names? How ridilous.

And one more thing, Jane was adopted by nice people who became her family, it is nice enough of her willing to spend some time with bio family and be nice to them, but nobody should demand of her to not name children certain way, attend everyone's weddings or buy anyone's gifts.

She was given away to be raised by someone else, why does she have to worry that some cousin is going to name some nonexistant babies. She can do whatever she wants.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"And one more thing, Jane was adopted by nice people who became her family, it is nice enough of her willing to spend some time with bio family and be nice to them, but nobody should demand of her to not name children certain way, attend everyone's weddings or buy anyone's gifts"

WOW. FD, I think you totally missed my point.

First of all, Jane spends WAY more time with her bio-family than she does with her adoptive parents. This may be partly because her own adoptive family is small (mom, dad, brother) whereas we have lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. She and her DH and their son vacation with our family and spend lots of time.

I used the wedding/rsvping as an example of how she is as a person in general. I honestly was trying to depict the kind of person she is, and this ties into the name issue. It's just one of those "of ALL the people that would choose that name, wHY does it have to be them?" kind of thing.

In general, she and her DH are just not considerate people...so I find it kind of ironic that they are making this "gesture" to my grandma about the name. And I guess that is why it annoys me on my cousin's behalf even more. If it were another relative, I wouldn't care, as I doubt my cousin and his wife would be as upset.

I am sorry, but I DO think it is rude to not even RSVP to someone's WEDDING. When you receive a stamped envelope with an RSVP card, you fill it out and drop it in the mail. Particularly when that person has extended themselves for you and your family many times over.

It is not just me. They attended my mother's RECEPTION but not the wedding itself, which seemed kinda odd to me.

And they have a long history of not responding to invites for parties, etc. at my grandma's house. Everyone just kind of rolls their eyes about it and says "oh, who knows if they'll show, that's how they are." Which is fine, if you want to be that way, but then I think it is kind of ballsy to turn around and invite 40+ people to your child's birthday party, or to have a huge 100+ person baby shower....you have to give if you want to receive. And I am not talking about monetary/material things. I just mean, if you want people to be there for you and be supportive or be your friend, then you have to do unto them as you would like done....it's the simple golden rule!

THAT is my issue....the name thing is annoying, but it is worse because of ALL the people in my family who could have chosen that, why does it have to be them.

I wasn't suggesting anyone say anything nasty to them. OF COURSE they can use any name they wish for their baby. I just (foolishly, given how they are) thought that if they heard that A and his wife were planning on using the name, they might step back. It just seems odd to me. Jane has a mom, a birthmom, a birth-grandma, and an adoptive grandma...you would think she'd want to name her baby after one of them, if anyone...

I guess it is just different in different families. In my family, very few people are named after anyone and NO ONE has the same name or even same middle name.

But oh well!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

if she comes from a small family, and I think her adopted family is her true family, she might not be able to keep up with that many relatives, plus it is expensive, plus she might appear all happy but deep inside bitter.

Nobody in the family wanted to keep her, everyone just gave her away, mom was 14, OK, but what about the rest of the family? And now they want her to acknowledge everyone and even control how she names her children. Why does she have to step back, she already had to step back when she was born. I think some of the family comes across selfish rather than Jane. these people are not even pregnant and might never have a girl, yet Jane has to think about it.

And if people think Jane is rude, well they shouldn't really complain, someone else raised her, right. She herself looked the family up, they didn't search for her, and now they complain she names kids wrong or does not attend their parties.

Plenty of adopted people don't even want to hear of their bio families that abandoned them. This woman went above and beyond and she is the one in the wrong. And her own biomom complains how she was brought up??? Seriously now. This story is bizarre.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

FD, I think you are totally confused here.

I NEVER said her bio-mom complains about how she was raised. I said they have a FABULOUS loving relationship today! I also never said that Jane has to acknowledge people in the family!

I really think you are misreading my posts or reading bits and pieces.

Adoption is a LOVING, BEAUTIFUL thing, FD. Jane has no bitterness about that, she has always been super open about her adoption and right from the get-go, when she was reunited with her birthmom, she shared her journal about her search, her feelings, etc.

This was back in the 1960s when pregnant moms didn't have the options they do now. Jane's BM (my mom's first cousin) was the daughter of a single mother herself--her father had walked out on the family years earlier, leaving the mom to have to work and raise her 3 girls on her own.

When Jane's BM got pregnant, she was sent to an unwed mothers' home, typical for that era. She didn't WANT to give her baby up for adoption but she knew it was the RIGHT choice. She has talked since about how she cried for DAYS and it has taken HER years of therapy to get over this loss.

MY GRANDMA actually WANTED to adopt/raise baby Jane, but everyone in the family felt it was better for the adoption to take place. And JANE would agree!!!!

Stop making it out like she was discarded or unwanted! THAT is not what adoption is. Adoption is a SELFLESS and corageous decision and I know that JANE is grateful she was placed into a loving home with HER PARENTS. I know for sure she has no bitterness about anything related to that.


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family

FD, I also think you are totally misunderstanding that OUR family IS her family. Yes, I know what you mean about her adoptive fam. being her true family, but she doesn't have anyone other than mom/dad/brother.

She VACATIONS with our family in Colorado every fall and the Carribbean every spring break; she went to Ireland with our family two summers ago.

I know 100% she would say her bio-family IS her family.

So it is NOT a question of not being able to keep up, or not wanting to attend things.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I think we have a very different view on things and we can leave it at that, I have my own views on families that give children up but then play "nice family" years after when a child finds them. My views on adoption clearly differ from yours. People who raise her are her true family.

she goes on vacations, who cares. I think it says a lot about her that she is willing to forgive and even spends time with your family. I think your family, I don't mean you but those who were around should worship her parents and ask her for forgiveness not demand she names her children certain way or acknowledges multiple holidays of a huge family.

It was OK to give her to someone else and now it is not OK she didn't attend some party? Did they attend her first birthday, her high school graduation, sat by her bed when she was sick? Oh wait a minute...They weren't around!

This story got my blood boiling, this is just awful, people just give children up and when those children are nice enough to find them and forgive, they place demand on these grown children! Unbelievable.

I cannot even imagine, if I would give DD up and now at 22 demanded she attends some parties for my multiple relatives or names her children certain ways. I would pray every day that she forgave me and wants to see me, I wouldn't dare to demand.

and you know why she brings album of her son and wants everyone to see??? BECAUSE SHE WANTS ALL OF YOUR FAMILY TO SEE THAT SHE IS RAISING HER OWN SON. And she has rights to name children THAT SHE IS RAISING the way she wants to.

That isn't a puppy they gave away!!!!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

FD, you're way off the mark here. (As an aside, I too am a non-bitter adopted child. I hold no resentment towards my birth mother and have never felt any animosity towards her whatsoever. Anyway.)
Love's point is that while Jane vacations with her bio-family and wants them to be as absorbed in he child as she is, reciprocity is not there. Jane wants the family to attend the parties she gives for her child, yet does not even RSVP to invitations she receives. It's all a one-way street for Jane. In any case, whoever sends you an invitation, it is rude rude rude not to respond, even if to send your regrets because you harbour bitterness towards them.
As far as the name goes, I've never understood the attitude that a name should be exclusive within a family. Grandma would probably be thrilled to have a dozen Adelines named after her.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"and you know why she brings album of her son and wants everyone to see??? BECAUSE SHE WANTS ALL OF YOUR FAMILY TO SEE THAT SHE IS RAISING HER OWN SON. And she has rights to name children THAT SHE IS RAISING the way she wants to. "

FD, I sense A LOT of projection here.

All I can say is, Jane has been a part of our family for the past 16-17 years and I can assure you, there is no bitterness.

Why would she have bitterness towards the extended family anyway? They didn't give her up! They welcomed her with OPEN ARMS when she searched for and found her birthmother.

UGH. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the fact that she was adopted b/c she has been around for so long now, she is a total member of the family, and is not any different from anyone else. I mentioned it only to highlight the fact that she does have OTHER relatives (adoptive mom, adoptive grandmother) after whom to name her child.

ANYWAY...this whole thing has gotten way off track...the adoption bitterness is such a crazy tangent to me. It's just never, ever been a bad or angry issue in our family. It's open and honest, and loving.

Not all adoptees are angry and resentful and feel like they were abandoned. I think many, if not most, recognize that adoption is a pure act of LOVE.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"it seems ODD to me that with Jane's mom and birthmom and adotpive grandmothers both alive, that she would choose to name her child after her great-aunt, whom she did not even KNOW until she was 20 years old. (She is now 36.)

And then there is my cousin, 30, the FIRSTBORN GRANDCHILD a nd he feels he cannot use our grandma's name now. :("

and the first grandchild has this privilege why? because she happened to be lucky to not being given away like Jane was?

And whose fault is that she did not see her until she was 20?

Poor firstborn grandchild, how tragic for her. What sense of entitlement.

Unbelievable. Nothing to do with Jane being bitter or not, I have hard time comprehending your family's attitude. Yes, Jane acts like your family owes her, but guess what, they do. Yes, adoption is act of love-love by adoptive parents.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Boy, I love how I can always count on taking a ride on the crazy train when I post on here!

FD, you are just so off base here it is not even funny.

My first cousin (the first born grandchild) is not ANGRY or malicious nor did he even say anything to Jane. He merely expressed his DISAPPOINTMENT to ME that he and his wife were planning to use the name Adeline, and now feel they can't. Good grief! He's not entitled or anything of the sort. He is allowed to be disappointed!

I was the one that said (to you guys) that I just thought it a shame that the grandchild wasn't going to use the name of his grandmother. I didn't say anything to anyone and NO ONE is demanding that Jane not name her child this name! Good lord. It was a discussion between me and my cousin, but neither of us SAID anything. My cousin is one of the kindest, gentlest people I know and he would never say anything confrontational or angry; he is not angry, just disappointed.

I guess for me--names are a very special deal. I personally would not want to use a name that had already been used, and my cousin said pretty much the same thing. I guess my theory was that--let's say I was planning to name my child after my great-aunt, who is a Bertha. (HAHA, therefore I would not name my child after her!) Anyway, if I heard that one of her grandchildren was just dying to use that name, I think I would step back and pick another one. That's just ME. Obviously, others have different views and I do NOT plan on saying anything to Jane about anything.

But the name issue is completely 100% separate from Jane being adopted. That has NOTHING to do with anything at all.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Anyway, if I heard that one of her grandchildren was just dying to use that name, I think I would step back and pick another one.

Yes! I agree! And that's coming from a pregnant woman!
My best friend's DH's very dear cousin is a roadside bomb diffuser in Afghanistan. The two were nearly raised as brothers. Cousin's name is one of our favourites for our upcoming child (gender unknown).
She is due to have a son in June. If Cousin is killed or seriously injured before their baby is born, he will be names after Cousin.
Sure, their baby is due first and is known to be a boy. But if mine was due first and she told me about this, I would use a different name FOR SURE.

My sister loved a girl's name that is also a last name. It happens to be our cousin's maiden name. My sister was pregnant first, so she checked to see if our cousin was planning to use it for her potential future daughter. She wasn't planning to, AND my sister had a boy... But it was nice of her to ask.

You can't "claim" a name... But you can be respectful to that others may have more of a right to a name than you do.


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all about money, not a darn thing funny

"I too think "Grandma's not blind or senile";
having attained her age, having run into all the people who have wanted to ingratiate themselves with her to curry financial favor, she probly knows the score" Sylvia Texas

Triple wow. This falls in the totally confused corridor. I thought the OP, love hadley, was talking about naming within the family. I told my story along with that of my blood relatives. Silly me, I forgot that there were individuals here only concerned about legal naming on assets, meaning cash money , income and the like. MY GRANDMA KNEW there was no cash money or worse, other mothers involved like the ones here involved. For us, it's all about names and family identification. Geez.

If you can't appreciate that some families work it out,live with real life as it comes, which by the way is not the story of my family of origin on either side thank God, no divorces, divorcee's (sp) or worse, BM's to talk or talk about, and so on, then shut up until you know what you are talking about.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

But the name issue is completely 100% separate from Jane being adopted. That has NOTHING to do with anything at all.

I'm not so sure. OK, maybe the fact that she was adopted doesn't enter into it, but the fact that she has not always actually been a [present] member of the family does. Is that splitting hairs maybe?

And here's why I say that:

it seems ODD to me that with Jane's mom and birthmom and adotpive grandmothers both alive, that she would choose to name her child after her great-aunt, whom she did not even KNOW until she was 20 years old. (She is now 36.)

It's probably impossible to answer this question but if she were the same exact person, same personality, but had not been adopted, would you feel differently? I know you want to say No to that, but you can't know for sure.

And maybe that doesn't matter. Maybe it does have at least a little bit to do with her being adopted. After all, she hasn't always been there and the whole family had to adapt not only to her existence but also to the fact that she becaue a full fledged member of the family as an adult. That's a lot to deal with, no question about it.

So why bother to separate that out of the equation? Them's the facts!

The question still comes down to the fact that she is taking the name your cousin wants to use for some child that may or may not be born at some point in the future. And that's the part that strikes me.

I understand that you might not feel the name is special anymore if she uses it. But that's your (and your cousin's) perception. And my answer is: Get over that.

Your original question was: "What do you think? Should something be delicately mentioned to Jane and her DH, just a casual "oh, what a beautiful name, did you know A & his wife were hoping to use that?"

Or leave it alone?"

My answer: Leave it alone.

I'm wondering how you, your cousin, or anyone else involved might feel down the road a few years if you did talk her out of using the name, and then the cousin never had a daughter. To me, that would be a big Ugh!

Especially if she does plan on calling the baby Addie, your cousin can call his future daughter Adeline with no confusion or conflict.

And one more question. You said:
It's just one of those "of ALL the people that would choose that name, wHY does it have to be them?" kind of thing.

That implies that it would have been ok if anyone else had chosen to name their child Adeline. Is that the case? And it doesn't matter WHY you feel that way. Just that if you/cousin could get over any one ELSE using the name first, then just step back and breathe, and go ahead and get over the fact that it's her.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"That implies that it would have been ok if anyone else had chosen to name their child Adeline. Is that the case? And it doesn't matter WHY you feel that way."

THIS is my own personal issue, NOT my cousin's. Honestly, Jane and her DH rub ME the wrong way. It might just boil down to a basic personality conflict.

So for ME---it is one of those things---of ALL people who could use the name...ughhhh....I am not a huge fan of Jane OR her DH. I care about them and I care about their son, but as far as *like* goes, I don't particularly. They are not people I would choose to be friends with, kwim?

I am sure I have my own insecurities about it. One of which being the fact that my DH and I have tried for almost 3 years to get pregnant. We are having our own issues now, and it's turning out to be a blessing in disguise, BUT that doesn't negate the pain of infertility.

Jane and her DH's son had a congenital issue and they always said they weren't going to have more children. Very recently, they saw a geneticist who was able to identify the cause of said congenital issue and was able to assure them it wouldn't repeat itself. So Jane and her DH said they were going to try for a second child. BOOM, they were pregnant 2 months later.

This was like a knife in my heart. It is hurtful---and unless you have GONE through infertility yourself, you cannot fully grasp the pain---when those around you are able to get pregnant so easily. I'm not MAD or ANGRY, but it just causes emotional pain. Anyway, my grandma had a big bbq at her house about 3 weeks ago, and Jane spent a good 15 mins complaining TO ME about her nausea, her weight gain, and her "pregnancy brain." I found myself BRISTLING at everything she said and honestly found it pretty darn insensitive. It is common knowledge in my family that DH & I have been trying to conceive for almost 3 years, to no avail. THAT (to me) kind of sums up how Jane is in general. I am NOT saying she's not a good person, or a loving mom or whatever---just that I don't particularly "care for her" and who knows, perhaps she feels the same about me.

Anyway, it was MY statement about her using the name...I guess I am just mentally kind of jumping to my first cousin's defense, because he and I are very close, and I identify more with him and his disappointment.

I asked for opinions on here and got them, and I totally respect everything everyone has said regarding the original issue, THE NAME. What I do not agree with is the notion that Jane is bitter and angry about being adopted!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Jane does sound self-centered! That's pretty inconsiderate to go on and on about your pregnancy "problems" to someone who wants nothing more than to have nausea and weight gain from being pregnant. I'm sorry you had to hear all of that. I can understand more now why you are irritated about the name, but at the same time, saying anything to her about it seems pretty futile; she doesn't sound like others' feelings may matter all that much to her.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

The name:
People are often insensitive. While a name is not something a person can "own" or "reserve" I can see how you might be defensive about it. Maybe she is trying to form more of a connection. Let your cousin fight his own battle with the name and keep your feelings to yourself on this one. JMO.

The Expectations:
That she can show up when and where she likes with RSVP or none is rude, especially when she expects others to attend everything. Not much you can do about that either. At least everyone recognizes it. Everyone has the relative who is always late, never contributes, has bad breath or brings their kids/dogs/rude friends to every event even when asked not to.

The inconsiderate behavior over pregnancy:
That's hurtful. I'm sorry. Perhaps someone close to you could say something to her, like "I couldn't help but overhear you telling love about your pregnancy. Congratulations. I hope this won't embarrass you, but in case you didn't know Love has been trying for years to get pregnant and she's pretty sensitive about it."

"those who were around should worship her parents and ask her for forgiveness..."

I'm speechless.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

LH,

I dealt with infertility for many years before finally having DS7. People said and did all kinds of insensitive things including my own mother. Even my SS had a baby before I did and boy did that hit hard. That was it, they were just insensitive, not thinking. You are right, unless you've dealt with infertility it's almost impossible to understand the feelings.

Maybe some of this is because "Jane" got pregnant the second time so easily. I was very prickly around friends and relatives with kids or who were pg for a long time.

I agree with Silver, let your cousin sort out the naming situation. I shared my personal naming story, you might be surprised down the road that this is not the big issue it seems right now. And of course, in my family, many of us were given the same name, only one uses it and that's me. Ultimately, no one cares.

You have a lot of stressors right now, let your cousin stress on this one. Take care of yourself.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"And they suck up to my grandparents like you would NOT believe. (My grandparents are extremely wealthy, and youjust cannot tell me that's not at the bakc of Jane and her DH's minds.) "

I knew there is more to the story. Assuming that Jane is after grandma's money and is a kiss a$$, and I agree with lowsparks, Jane is an outsider and also being hurt that Jane got pregnant easily? This story had nothing to do with the name.

As about children, i cannot have children anymore, one, that's was it, but I am not hurt or upset or angry that others have more kids. Plenty of people at my workplace are pregnant and always talk about pregnancy, it never occurred to mee feel hurt.

I don't understand this attitude. The world does not evolve around me, just because I cannot have children others should not stop having them or talking about themselves . And one can always adopt, there are plenty of unwanted children around, oh yeah, proverbial Jane is one of them.

This whole story is a crazy train for me.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"As about children, i cannot have children anymore, one, that's was it, but I am not hurt or upset or angry that others have more kids. Plenty of people at my workplace are pregnant and always talk about pregnancy, it never occurred to mee feel hurt. " FD

FD et al, no offense intended but what occurs to you is not relevant at all. I think lovehadley put it accurately, unless you have dealt with the challenge of infertility, you just can't understand. You admit that you don't understand. Best to leave it at that. I've been there. It's like other major life challenges, if you haven't experienced them, you just don't know so why comment? If you haven't tried on the moccassins, don't lecture on the fit.

In example, I don't know what it's like to be divorced and to have my ex's new woman trying to take my motherhood job away from me. So I don't open my mouth on that subject outside of my personal experience with the person who feels that way.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"As about children, i cannot have children anymore, one, that's was it, but I am not hurt or upset or angry that others have more kids. Plenty of people at my workplace are pregnant and always talk about pregnancy, it never occurred to mee feel hurt. "

FD, did you TRY to conceive another child? Did you long for another child for years? Did you go through medical treatments to conceive said child?

NO. You are saying you had 1 child and that was it. That is your decision. Having 1 child was NOT my decision and I pray that someday, somehow, I am blessed with another. If I do not have more children, whether with my current DH assuming we can repair our marriage, or with another spouse, I would be DEVASTATED. I love being a mom.

Infertility absolutely crushes the soul. I NEVER knew how it was until I experienced it. And if you've not experienced it, which it sounds like you haven't, you do not understand.

Of course the world doesn't revolve around me, I never said it did. But that doesn't mean it was sensitive of Jane to talk to ME about her pregnancy problems. That's like me complaining about my relationship with my mother to someone whose mother recently passed away. Or it's like complaining to someone in a wheelchair about how you just HATE to walk too far in a parking lot. It's rude and insensitive. Has nothing to do with being the center of the universe. It is called sensitivity.

I am glad you are okay with having one child, just as some people have 2 children and feel their family is complete. My heart ACHES to have more children, and the thought of never being a mother again makes me feel shattered. You do not understand so if you would please refrain from further comments about how ridiuclous my FEELINGS are, I would much appreciate that.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I wouldnt recommend mentioning names to anyone before baby born. Unless you dont mind someone else mentioning.


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oops

oops,meant unless you dont mind someone else using the same name.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"unless you have dealt with the challenge of infertility, you just can't understand. You admit that you don't understand. Best to leave it at that. I've been there."

Lamom, thank you for sharing that you've been through infertility. I really appreciate that. It helps. I got pg with my DD so easily and just never in a billion years expected I'd have trouble conceiving.

DH and I are (obviously) taking a break from TTC/adoption, as we focus really hard on our marriage. I am hopeful that with our counselor--and I am actually doing individual counseling, as well, to deal with some of my past--we will be able to repair our marriage. We really do love each other immensely and have a solid bond. For the first time EVER, I can sense a willingness to change in both of us---we both have to recognize what we bring (good and bad) to the table, and we have to deal with it and sort through all the muck. I am really hopeful we can repair things and come out stronger than ever before. Anyway, it is my hope that if this is the case, we will be blessed with another child in God's time. Thanks for giving me hope! :) (((HUGS)))


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

OK lovehadley, I am quoting my own post again

"As about children, i cannot have children anymore, one, that's was it, but I am not hurt or upset or angry that others have more kids. I don't understand this attitude. The world does not evolve around me, just because I cannot have children others should not stop having them or talking about themselves"

now I am quoting your post: "FD, did you TRY to conceive another child? Did you long for another child for years?
You are saying you had 1 child and that was it. That is your decision. "

You clearly did not read my post before writing your reply.

Like I said I cannot have children,

yes tried to have a child,

no cannot have one,

no never made a decision to have only one child,

yes ended up with only one.

Yes, it is upsetting to have only one child,

no, I don't think the world evolves around me,

yes am hurt not to have more children,

no am not hurt that others have children,

no the world does not evolve around me,

yes I am happy for others who have children and

no again I am not the center of the universe and believe pregnant women have rights to take about their babies in front of me and I am going to celebrate with them.


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lamom

"FD et al, no offense intended but what occurs to you is not relevant at all. I think lovehadley put it accurately, unless you have dealt with the challenge of infertility, you just can't understand. You admit that you don't understand. "

sigh, go read my post again, I could not have more children, wish had more, could not, have only one. wanted to adopted, couldn't afford, but now feel too old. go read it, I never said I don't understand. exactly because I know how it feels wanting more children i do not understand the attitude of being hurt because others are happy or expecting others to walk on eggshells around me. There will always be people who have what we don't have. By this logic we should go around hurt 24/7. I don't have it in me, it is not how I operate.


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how hard is that just read

"I am glad you are okay with having one child, just as some people have 2 children and feel their family is complete."

I never said I am OK, I said I cannot have more. I don't know how many more times should i repeat it, CANNOT HAVE MORE. Yet am happy for other people. Not that hard to understand.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"believe pregnant women have rights to take about their babies"

To talk about their babies, YES. To complain about the nausea from pregnancy? To complain about how pregnancy makes one so forgetful?

I think that is just RUDE. I would give so very much to be experiencing those things, nausea, weight gain and all...if it meant I could be pregnant! So YES I think it is rude, insensitive and hurtful. And I DO think people need to be delicate in what they say, with ANYTHING, like I previously mentioned.

My friend works her @$$ off as a single mom--2 jobs and full-time school--so I am careful to not talk about my recent shopping trip or the vacation I just took. I try to be SENSITIVE to the fact that her situation is different than mine.

I don't complain about my 8 year old daughter's behavior to a friend of mine who lost her own daughter at age 8 seven years ago! That would be incredibly insensitive and hurtful.

It's sensitivity period.

You said "there will always be others who have what we wish we had." And this is true. There are many other things I wish I had or had done that others have or have done. But a CHILD is a HUGE thing TO ME. EVERY ounce of me aches to have another child...to experience pregnancy with a husband by my side, to nurse my newborn, to walk my child into preschool....ohhhhh....FD, it absolutely shatters me. It is the one thing that I would really, really have to work hard on to accept. I can accept the fact that I didn't go to law school like I always said I would. I can accept the fact that I don't live in a mansion, or that my hubby and I don't have a perfect marriage....not having another child would devastate me. I have never wanted anything more.

I really have to back off from this post because it is getting me worked up, and like lamom said, I have bigger things to deal with.

And now this post has gotten way off track anyway! LOL.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I think it is much easier to live your life being happy for others. But that's just me. Live your life the way you want to, it sounds pretty stressful the way it is, I don't know why you add more stress to it worrying over petty stuff. I cannot live my life like this. It is too short the way it is. But oh well.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

" it sounds pretty stressful the way it is, I don't know why you add more stress to it worrying over petty stuff."

You are a rude person FD. Really, really rude.

I just poured out my heart about how much having more children at some point means to me---and you respond by calling my heart's desires "petty." To me--it is not a petty want or desire, it is a deep longing and aching. It is certainly not petty to me.

Unbelievable. You know the old saying "if you don't have anything nice to say..."


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I think it's insensitive to talk about sustinance in front of people who are starving;

be it in front of someone starving for affection "Oh, my marriage is going great, DH just bought me a beautiful XYZ and he tells me I'm beautiful every day xoxoxoxo"

Or someone starving for adventure while another complains about the room service in Australia or someone starving for children stands in front of another complaining about stretch marks, or someone complaining about how hard their classes are when someone else would give anything for an education, or actually being physically hungry and listening to someone complain about a meal.

I have hunger. I do not know what it is like to not be able to conceive a child as I had my one child very easily and have never tried for another. But I am hungry for another child. I yearn for one. I just don't feel I can have another for many personal reasons. So, perhaps I am not as hungry as others are, who have tried, and not yet been successful. But I can understand how it feels to have to smile through the pain while someone is complaining about something I would love to have.

I know this feeling.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

sorry you misunderstood lovehadley, desiring children is not petty at all, I never said that. I wish you the very best in that realm, and in life in general. You are a very nice person why would i say that your desire to have children is petty? I am a mother myself, why would i say that wanting children is petty?

What I meant: what Jane is talking about or if Jane is pregnant or how she names her children or if she sucks up to grandma or after grandma's money seems petty to me. It adds to the stress. She is not even your sister or best friend.

Wanting children is not petty at all.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I have no biological children. And due to my age, odds are that I won't be able to. DH and I have decided not to try anything other than the obvious; our lives are stressful enough and it is not fair to SS for me to be walking around all insane and hormonal from treatments - after all, he was here first and deserves at least some normalcy.

I'm very happy for others when they are pregnant, I love being around babies, and usually I'm fairly accepting of the way that my life worked out. But that doesn't mean that there are not moments when a relative or friend asks me if DH and I are "planning" to have children (they know how old I am!), or when I hear about some 15 year old who is pregnant for the third time, or when people make comments about how "real" mothers are only the ones who gave birth, even if they almost never see their kids after that (yes, I know that nobody here really said that), that I just want to cry and scream about how unfair life is. And for anyone wondering, DH and I have been over and over with each other, ourselves, and the counselor to make sure that the fact that I probably won't have bio-kids is not skewing any decisions we make regarding SS.

Usually I am OK, as I said, and remind myself of all the things that I do have. But there are still days when I find out that I am not pregnant, again, and DH will make some off-hand comment to SS about how he will "always be my baby" and I find myself in tears. It has nothing to do with not being happy for others, it has everything to do with what I do not and probably never will have.

BTW, finedreams And one can always adopt, there are plenty of unwanted children around, oh yeah, proverbial Jane is one of them. I have no idea where you live; where we are, there is a years long waiting list for foster babies. There are so few babies and toddlers available for adoption that people are willing to wait for years for a chance that the baby they take into their home, love, raise and care for, may become available for adoption (or may be taken away, back to the bio-parents, never to be seen again.) Most of the foster children that are available are teenagers of 16 or older.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

FD:
"And one can always adopt, there are plenty of unwanted children around, oh yeah, proverbial Jane is one of them.This whole story is a crazy train for me."

FD:
(I)"...wanted to adopted, couldn't afford"

How can you assume it would be feasible for others? What really galls me about your post is the assumption that "Jane" should now be given a free ticket to behave badly since she was adopted. She should feel fortunate they want a relationship with her. Many families who give a child up don't want anything to do with that child later. And they should feel fortunate that they were able to explain to her that it wasn't that she wasn't wanted, it was the day and age, it was the age of the mother, etc. and they were trying to do what they thought was best. I have family members who are very wealthy and some who are just getting by. Should we give the children of broken homes a free ride? How about those who don't get to go on the "family" vacations because they can't afford it.

My point is that life isn't fair. Put your big girl panties on and deal with it.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

Yes, adoption is not the easy route that people seem to think it is. First of all, I will say that for many people experiencing infertility, choosing adoption is a loss in itself. I am on a TTC forum and I can tell you, as I watch people go through the process of fertility treatments, one has to go through a grieving process BEFORe turning to adoption. So it is NOT as simple as "oh, I can't get pregnant, I'll just adopt instead." Adoption is a beautiful choice but it takes many people a long time to be emotionally ready to take the step from fertility treatments/medical assistance to adoption. It is not a "second best" or "last option" nor is it a step back, but it is a step in a different direction, and mourning the loss of not conceiving has to occur first.

Secondly, adoption is not financially feasible for many people. To adopt a domestic newborn, one is generally looking at about 40K! Adoptions are so different than how they used to be, and often times now, in addition to all the fees, there are birthmother expenses to be paid.

If one chooses to adopt an infant internationally (as DH and I are hoping to do down the road) it runs about 20-40K, just depending on the country, etc. And the hoops to jump through are insane! To adopt ANYONE from China, infant or older child, you must have a net worth of at least 80K. You must not be X pounds overweight. You must not have any history of mental illness....that sounds good in theory, but did you know that DEPRESSION is considered a mental illness? So if you admit to having been treated for depression, this can nix you from adopting in China!

I have friends who were recently turned down by the COUNTY from foster-adopting a little girl because....wait for it...their 3rd bedrooom for her had a sloped ceiling, and wasn't technically considered a bedroom because you have to walk through another bedroom to access it. These wonderfl and loving parents, who are already parenting their beautiful 2 year old conceived-via-ivf-son, were turned down because a bedrooom wasn't "good enough."

THAT is the reality of adoption. It is not as easy and simple as people think.

Sure there are plenty of older kids in foster care, and my heart breaks for them. HOWEVER, for many reasons, DH & I decided that adopting an older child would not be an option for us. We do not want to introduce a child into the mix with our other two kids, as we feel that would be disruptive and we worry that our kids would not adjust well to having an older child brought into the family. Sadly, too, many, many of those children have severe behavioral/emotional problems, and are often BETTER placed with parents that do not have other kids OR else have much older children. I would do it if my kids were in highschool, but at this point in THEIR lives, I don't think an older-child adoption would be good for them.


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"And they should feel fortunate that they were able to explain to her that it wasn't that she wasn't wanted, it was the day and age, it was the age of the mother, etc. and they were trying to do what they thought was best."

I wanted to add on this note, too, who it is exactly that FD thinks should have stepped forward for Jane?

Her birthmother ( my mom's first cousin) was 14! This was back in an era when single moms just didn't exist. Having a baby and raising her wasn't an option for the birthmom, as she was just a child herself! The birthfather was also young, 15 when Jane was born. (I might add, he and Jane have almost no relationship today because they just didn't have much of a connection. It IS fortunate and extremely rare that Jane and her birthmom were able to forge such a strong bond. I know it is the rare exception in these situations!)

Anyway, so we have ruled out Jane's birthmom having been able to keep her and raise her. Jane's birthmom's mom was a single mom herself---her husband had walked out on the family years earlier, leaving her to go to work and struggle to support her 3 girls. She couldn't have raised Jane's baby, either. She was struggling as it was to take care of her 3 girls, and as it was, my grandparents actually wound up setting up college funds for all three of them.

Let's see....my grandparents were around, but at that time, my grandpa was still working; he made a lot of money in his stock options after his retirment, so at that point, while they were well-off, they did not have the assets they do now. They certainly could have afforded to raise Jane, and like I said, I know my grandma really wanted to, but everyone felt it best for ALL involved if Jane went to a family with typical-age parents. They also felt that it would be too awkward and uncomfortable for everyone, including Jane, for her to be raised within the family, but not by her birthmother. They worried about the emotional pain and turmoil that would have caused the birthmom and Jane herself.

And really---was it even my grandparents' responsibility???? Why is it FD that you think family members are RESPONSIBLE for someone giving their child up for adoption? If my teenage cousin had a baby today and wanted to give the baby up for adoption, never in a million years would I think I would be obligated to raise that baby. Actually, I would think it kind of presumptuous of me to even SUGGEST the notion. I am thinking of my sweet little 19 year old cousin right now...if she had a baby, and wanted to give the child up for adoption because she felt it was the right choice, I would not FAULT her for that, nor would I even think it was REMOTELY my business! I would offer my love and support in whatever was best, but I would never think that I should step in. I might consider it if she ASKED me to raise her child but I would not bring it up.

Who else would there have been that you think "wronged" Jane by not raising her? My mom? My mom was 23 and in grad school, not even married to my dad yet. My uncle? He was in college.

Jane's birthmom's sisters? One was in highschool and one was in grade school!

I am not sure who these fictional people are who you think should have "wanted" and raised Jane?


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

"They celebrate Mother's Day together with Jane's adoptive mother..."

LMAO

They have a better relationship than most of us do with our BM/SM situations!!! LOLOLOL!!


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RE: Naming a child--not SF related

I can solve this really easily. A name is a name. Because of my blended family I now have two sons with the same name. Two kids in the same house. They are spelled slightly different and the middle names are different but they know to whom we are referring. The parent can name their child whatever they choose. If everyone wants to name their child "Bob" (or whatever) no harm done. And what better way to honor the elders of the family to have more than one grandchild bear their name? In my family this is usually done with the middle name but a lot of cousins share middle names too for that reason. Good luck to you, I hope your family can work it out.


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