BM has absolutely no right to have that phone number. She can communicate with your DH if there is an emergency.

If he agrees that she shouldn't have your house number then why would she need the babysitters number?? Does she call every night and would be disturbed if she couldn't reach him this one night. I see no reason for her to have the Sitters number. When she acts up you will likely never be able to use that sitter again. Seems like it wouldn't be worth the money to sitter to have to deal with extra crap. I would say HECK NO I WON'T TELL...lol. Any emergency should be handled between adults anyway.

Yeah, she does call every night, usually more than once.

She calls between 4-6 pm to see how SS's day at school was, then she calls again around bedtime.

So DH really does have to tell her we are going out---otherwise, she will call and call and call, and honestly--she would freak out so badly if DH didn't answer that she'd probably call the cops and send them over to check on us.

-Holy fruit-loop of an ex lol!
I am agreeing with everyone else here, there is no way that woman needs the sitters number.
It is real nice she is concerned about her kid and wants to keep in contact and all, but geez, woman needs to find a hobby.

"DH's argument is that BM has the *right* to talk to her son anytime she feels like it."

No she doesn't. She has the right to frequent & continuing contact with her child, which includes reasonable phone time. If you have SS call her just before you drop him off to say goodnight, etc. there's no reason for her to call him back. If there's an emergency, she can call DH and he can deal with it... you don't deal with an emergency by calling a child! and if there is an emergency with the child, the sitter should have both parent's numbers so SHE can call THEM!

I'm gonna go buy you a fresh new lamp! A BIG ONE! (I would like to tell your DH, from the bottom of my heart... TAKE A PARENTING CLASS!!! TAKE A COOPERATIVE PARENTING CLASS!!!! The only way to deal with the chaos that woman brings to his life is to disengage from the madness!

Also, wanted to mention that if he left because she was going out partying and HE couldn't take it, why would you think she's going to be a reasonable parent on her weeks? She couldn't be a reasonable wife that would stay home every night, why would anyone think she'd be a reasonable parent that would stay home with her child every night? That confused me.

"Also, wanted to mention that if he left because she was going out partying and HE couldn't take it, why would you think she's going to be a reasonable parent on her weeks? She couldn't be a reasonable wife that would stay home every night, why would anyone think she'd be a reasonable parent that would stay home with her child every night? That confused me"

AUUGHH. Thank you.

Because he's a moron, that's why.

Honestly--I do not know. He has said many times, over and over, in regards to BM's drinking that he *always thought she could control it.* And that *as long as it didn't affect SS, it didn't matter.*

That is the reason he gives. What the real reason is God only knows. I think it was a combination of not understanding just how out-of-control her drinking was to having a codependent, twisted relationship with her to being afraid of "rocking the boat" and losing time with his son.

There used to be some whispered talk, here and there, of the fact that BM slept with someone else around the time she got PG with their son. DH maintains they "counted" the days (whatever that means) and know he is the father...but I do wonder if that wasn't a factor at the back of his mind, too, if he was afraid he wasn't bio-dad and feared losing his son altogether.

I don't know--I think SS is DH's son. Their hair grows in the same pattern on the back of their heads and I personally think when he was younger he looked a lot like his dad.

But I will say this--when they went to court last year, the attorney pushed for DH to have a paternity test done and he refused. He said it was unnecessary. I think that is very admirable of him....but it does make me wonder, you know?

mmmm...you know ive also wondered about my dh's son if he's really his. I have never brought it up....but i have this gutt feeling. He honestly doesn't have any features of my hubby. He keeps saying he looks like him when he was a baby...i've looked...no way..our son looks like him. his daughter has features of both mom and dad...his son..mmmmmm...
anways...
dont give the phone number. She has no right to it. She has the right to phone your house and speak to her son. if there is an emergency its the baby sitters duty to phone the parents at hand. Which means you and your dh ..not biomom. SS is on your custody time.....not on bm.
So if bm had a baby sitter...you also would not get the phone number. Andif there was an emergency, you also would not get called.

I agree. some men are just bone heads! my dh can be like that! and very forgetful!

Hey. Feel so sorry for you been in this situation. I have been in the same myself. Only once have we ever got a sitter for my step daughter and even though we cleared it with her mam well in advance and it was my mother in law who was minding her (who BM leaves with all the time when it suits her) she still kicked off and ruined our night at the last minute, so in over 3 years we have never had any sitter again on our nights, even though she often does on hers! If there's an occasion that happens to fall on one of step daughters days with us. we have to swap or more often I'm expected to go alone. It would be nice to not have to go to important events as a singleton when i'm very much not but at the same time it gives dad and daughter some quality time together and a night off for me hee hee!
Recently we too had a row over BM having our new house number. I didn't see why she would need it when she's always used my partners mobile before and there's never been a issue.
But I have gave her it now, simply because she rings the same as BM in your situation does, after school,and before bed and my partners just started a new job and is doing a lot more hours at work and if she can't get through on his mobile and panicks, but her daughters safe at home with me, it makes sense..she can ring the house.
Not really happy about it and understand why you would'nt be happy about her having your house or the sitters number, but think hey at the end of the day if i happen to answer the phone and speak to her i only have to say hi and 2 secs while i put her on.. and as long as step daughter is happy she got to speak to her mam and BM gets to hear my happy chirpy hello now and again, it's fine by me!
A good sitter is hard to find and obviously you don't want to ruin that by BM kicking off on her.
But i know personally that I would feel uncomfortable that someone I didn't know was minding my son. I know you said she's a lovely girl and has sat for your children before but it seems as though you and BM don't really have much of a relationship or trust there for her to just take your word for it?
If it was me, I wouldn't let my son stay with someone I didn't know, and maybes she wanted to phone while sitter was minding him just to make sure he was having a nice time and was okay? Maybe a bit of reassurance would make her less likely to kick up a fuss if this sitter minded SS again?
Your sitter sounds like a lovely girl and I'm sure if you explained that BM was a bit of a 'worrier' and if she had any concerns or wanted to pick SS at an inappropriate time, to tell her not to worry and give you's a ring?
It's a tricky one, but I just hope you managed to get things sorted and have a nice arguement free night out together.

I would be MAD MAD MAD if (1) no one informed me that someone other than the original caretaker was taking care of my child (it would then be my option to keep the child home with me) and (2) I didn't know where my child was and how to contact them.

I would be VERY angry that information regarding my child was withheld from me.

Lone -- I would too (actually, it would never happnen, as I have my D 24/7 -- with her dad having her for a dinner every other wek of so), but loveH has a different situaiton, the childs mom showed up drunk to pick up kid (and driver her home), is having alchol eval, yadayada. So I dont know what to say.

LH has a nasty situation and a very dangerous one at that for her ss.
If bm was to find out and take advantage and show up drunk and take the child.......then down the road both get killed???? LH would never forgive her husband for thatone!
When we have baby sitters we do not tell bm we have them. She has access to the phone at our house and it is good enough.
The notion of trusting the parent who has the child and trust the fact that they wouldnt' just get anyone to babysit shoudl be taken into account. BOth kids here are being baby sat. I'm sure no mother would want any harm done on any child.
So why do you assume that the choice of babysitter is wrong for the stepchild????
lone no one here is withholding where the child will be and contact. BM has the phone number of the dwelling which is her ex husbands house and she has the adress...BUT unfortunately after physically attacking LoveH, she is not allowed to step foot on the premises for anoterh year.
So...you can be mad all you want, but legally, as long as they are in the care of the other parent and that parent chooses to have a babysitter, that is not your business. You cannot legally force any pair of parents not to have a babysitter because it doesnt' suite you or ex husband does that to you too maybe one weekend because he doesn't approve of your babysitter.
To each their own. As long as the child is safe adn taken care of, as long as you have the phone number of the main house and not the babysitters private cell number. Thats enough. Its also the babysitter discretion not to give her personal number too you know.
Like kkny has stated, this childs mother shows up drunk. she has a serious sickness addiction of alcohol. And she's in denial.

Organic, there was no need to attack lone, I assume she just doesnt know situaiton.

Its not a question of assuming babysitter is not good, its just that in what I thought was normal situation, with two normal parents, why use sitter if other parent is available. And parents should know how to contact child.

Organic, you're high-handed apprroach, if read by moms, will lead them to insist on ROFR, which I think is the right answer.

"So why do you assume that the choice of babysitter is wrong for the stepchild????"

Because the mother does not know that someone other than the father will have custody of the child during that time frame. If the father told the mother that the child would be with a babysitter, then fine. But the way it stands now, she is deliberately being kept in the dark.

I understand that she drinks and endangers the child - but I don't see how that justifies keeping information pertaining to her child from her. If she doesn't want the child to be babysat, then drop him off at her home (so she doesn't drive drunk to pick him up).

Well I totally agree with Organic, when the child is in your care and you organise a babysitter then that is your business and not the other parents'. The thought of informing BM has never even crossed our mind! And she doesn't ring us about her babysitters either, which is her right. We expect her to look after the kids properly when they are with her, and it is her judgement whether this or that person is ok to have as a babysitter. And if that person is not to our liking than it's stiff sh*t for us really.

We actually had a situation a couple of years ago when BM hung out with a bunch of feral people. She got them to look after the skids quite a lot at one stage, and the skids used to dread going to their house because it was dirty and they'd have to sleep on the floor with a thin blanket that stunk like pee. And no I'm not exaggerating..
So FDH offered BM that we can always look after the skids when need be, and we are only 10 mins up the road so it's the same time as to drive to the ferals' place. But noooo, BM was in control of 'her' time and she'd be damned if she'd give us extra time for free, THAT was NEVER going to happen! Very frustrating but you can't do a thing about it. When the skids are with her it's her business.

And in Loves case they are NOT dealing with 2 normal parents, BM is a mess, and to inform her is actually endangering SS and the babysitter. That poor girl doesn't need to be harassed by crazy BM.
Most of us are here because we are not dealing with a normal parent, otherwise why hang around here if things are fine and both parents are normal?

Love don't give BM the babysitters number, no way! BM can ring you guys if there's an emergency and maybe SS can ring her before you guys go, so he's had his phonecall to his mum for the day. And I don't think it's normal she talks to him that much, our BM does the same, exactly the same. She'll neglect the kids when they are with her (used to leave them home alone, go on the piss, promise them heaven but always have a headache when it's crunchtime, keep them out of school, not take them to sports etc etc). But oh boy when they are with us! Constant phonecalls to check if they are ok (it being such a risk to be with us) and making sure we'd take them to sports otherwise she'll come and pick them up herself (MOTY), blabla etc etc. It is controlling and disturbing and I'm frustrated on your behalf that you guys are harassed by this woman so much that it interferes with your normal everyday life.
Hang in there, big hug

"Most of us are here because we are not dealing with a normal parent, otherwise why hang around here if things are fine and both parents are normal?"

LOL - because sometimes you can't tear your eyes away from a train wreck.

By the way, what does ROFR mean?

If I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same. I'd want to protect the babysitter from the wacky BM and all her drama.

As a BM, I can see what some other moms are saying too. When my ex worked on "his weekend" and left daughter w/ a sitter when I was home and happy to have her I was upset.

We put in in our papers if one parent is absent (like for work) for greater than 6 hours during "their time" the other bio parent has the right to have the child for that time. If it's less than that length of time I just have to trust my ex's judgement. (If he left her with a sitter)

As far as her calling a few times a night, she can get through one night he's unavailable.

Mom of 2.5 that is a great solution. I wish we'd have that in the court order, it's a good idea.

And I also don't know what ROFR means. Right Of Frequent R....?

Don't get me wrong - I think you should protect the babysitter from possible harrassment, etc. However, I just don't think information should be withheld from the other parent. Like I said, as a mother, I'd be MAD.

ROFR means Right of First Refusal... meaning if dad is not going to be able to spend the time with his child, the mom should be offered the first option to be caretaker and if she refuses, he can set up secondary care.

lone, unfortunately in divorce or two separated parent situations, not everyone is going to have the rights they think they deserve. Neither party gets to choose the ex's choice in new relationships. In lovehadley's case, BM picks a BF (now husband) and the BF is caring for SS while BM is at the bar. Dad didn't get to choose who is caring for SS during BM's weeks when BM goes out to get drunk. BM didn't get a choice in dad marrying lovehadley... and she doesn't like that SM watches SS when dad is at work. Unless there is an obvious safety issue, like mom's BF is a criminal or child molester or dad's wife is abusive or in some way irresponsible.. then it's not the decision of one parent to decide what the other parent does when the child is at the other parent's house.

Both parents are equal, unless a court has determined one is to have that decision making (as in sole legal custody) and it should be assumed that mom and dad are equally capable of choosing adequate care for the children and that they will protect the child from harm and they will do what's best for the child.

and of course I'm referring to situations where there is joint legal and 50/50 shared physical custody. When there is a primary custodian, it's a little different.. but if there is joint legal custody, then both parents have the ability to make minor decisions. A babysitter to go to the movies or out to dinner is a minor decision. A daycare where the child will be day after day is a bigger decision that both parents should discuss.

and no sitter should ever have to be put in a position of being put in the middle of an adversarial situation... when mom & dad are in the midst of court battle, that's adversarial and the sitter does not need to get calls from mom because dad wants to go out for a few hours.

It was a great idea for us 10 years ago, and it worked really well for my ex! Everytime my DH and I take a weekend trip, or twice I've left town myself I've let my EX know, and he has always taken her even when my DH was home and wanted to have the time with her. I thought I was treating him as I'd like to be treated. A few months back he picked her up for the weekend as usual then left the state on a business trip, and left DD with her SM all weekend. Only reason I know is because DD let it slip they'd gotten up early to take Daddy to the airport. He was 2,000 miles away and didn't even mention it. I've never mentioned to him that i know, I just no longer plan to offer that courtesy to him. When we first separated it was a helpful rule for us.

"However, I just don't think information should be withheld from the other parent. Like I said, as a mother, I'd be MAD. "

Lone, if you re-read my original post, you will see that BM was NOT kept in the dark about the sitter. DH just didn't tell her until later in the afternoon because he knew if he told her earlier in the day she'd harrass him with phone calls/emails complaining all day long. It seemed easier and simpler to tell her at the last minute.

Truth be told, according to the GAL, DH doesn't need to tell her anything--what he does on his parenting time is his business and vice versa. But DH felt it was right to at least let her know the situation tonight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't blame Love and Hubs at all. BM gets drunk and tries to drive off with the kid! Not a situation I would want to put any sitter in. Plus she is violent and capable of punching people in the faces when she's under the influence. Her not getting all the dateails of the sitter is a reaction to her terrible behavior. Nobody likes consequences. Unfortunatly they don't ever consider them when they are acting like morons.

They told BM that they had a sitter lined up. In many ways it is no different than when she ditches the child on the BF. Dad doesn't get the ROFR in those cases which I am CERTAIN far out number the times he and Love hire a sitter. Love said they can count on one hand how many times they have hired a sitter. I think this is a mole hill geeting turned into a mountain kindof situation.

They hired a sitter and didn't give mom the girls number or address so F-ing what? If something were to happen the sitter could call Dad and Dad could notify BM immediatly. It isn't imperitive that BM has this womans number so she can call 50 times and drive the woman nuts.

This situation is a little different but when we found a good sitter we wouldn't tell BM her number or address either. The reason we didn't is because she would be calling them three times a week to keep the girls (always LAST minute because she was jonesing) so she could party. She ran 5 really good sitters off this way. They got tired of watching her kids for her when she was getting high and drunk. When we found a girl we really liked we refused to giver her any imformation other than she was really good and the girls liked her alot.

She got pissed but tuff. If you want us to give you that kindof imformation stop acting like a damn spaz!!!!

Ima said - "unfortunately in divorce or two separated parent situations, not everyone is going to have the rights they think they deserve."

This is so dead on!!!! When we divorce, whether or not we caused it or initiated it" we lose control of certain things. If all couples knew this BEFORE the divorce, I guarantee that there would be less divorces because people wouldn't want to lose the control they have over their spouses and kids.

I learned this lesson a long time ago and I had to learn to live with it. The first summer X and I were split, we had a mix-up with the papers and X got DS for the entire month of July with no visitation from me. He expected me to still pay for daycare. No way was I going to spend that money for a month and not even be allowed to visit my 4 year old! So I thought I was being a big girl when I refused to pay. What I didn't realize was that because I wasn't paying, X could find any kind of daycare he wanted. That included his GF, who I wasn't getting along with at the time due to them trying to plant drugs on me and calling me all kinds of horrible things. That was a really hard lesson for me to learn. Especially in the first 6 months after the divorce was final.

When I decided that our marriage was unbearable (and it was) and I needed to get out before I got hurt permenantly, I didn't realize that I was actually having to trust that man even more, even though I didn't trust him at all. Does that make sense?

Love - it is none of BMs business who watches SS when it's not "her time". She's not in control anymore. And you are gonna HAVE to take that new lamp from Ima because I'm sure the old one is already beat up and useless. I know mine is.

Mom_of_2.5 - You are so right! It's not a banking system where you make deposits of kindness and get kindness in return. It's whatever is good at the moment. And even though we try to do the best most moral and ethical things for our kids, that doesn't mean the other person has those same considerations.

Hey, Ima! As I write this I'm thinking I need a new lamp, too! My SO STILL hasn't seen his DD.....due to the Swine Flu. That's the newest excuse for why she hasn't been here in almost 6 months.