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those damn pants!!! ~again~

Posted by imamommy (My Page) on
Tue, Apr 21, 09 at 11:29

Yes, it just won't go away.... will it? 'Those damn pants!' that she won't let go of... but this has gone too far!

DH was served with court papers yesterday. BM had her mom go to his work and serve him. Yes, she filed for sole legal and physical custody. She recommends he get less visitation than he has given her for the last two years. Of course, if she is given custody, she thinks the child support to her should go up. and she asked for an order so DH has to return her pants to her. She also said the court should order him to allow SD to bring presents into our home and that DH cannot have a say in it. [BM is angry that DH did not give SD the half of cake that grandma dropped off at his work and maybe she thinks he should have had to let SD bring the mouse she got her, home to take care of] It was ridiculous to say the least...

As entertaining as this may be... to actually have her bring an action that brings up those damn pants... it is stressful that DH will have to lose time from work and go to court. Our attorney charges $300 an hour... BM has already been ordered to pay her $1000 for prior BS where BM dragged out the court dates to make DH lose time from work. I'm dying to hear what the Judge has to say when he hears her rant about those pants, about all the petty things she mentioned... and how she will explain owing so much in arrears, or even explain how/why she would move away so soon after the first trial for a guy she just met and leave her kids behind... and explain why she's waited 2 years to seek custody when she is complaining about things that happened 2 years ago.

lol, she said that we tell SD that BM is a liar. We have never told her that. SD's therapist told SD that certain things are 'not true', like when SD said BM told her she is going to live with her... and it was not true. BM has told SD that she is going to marry BF. Two 'wedding dates' have already passed with no wedding. BM posted a blog last September announcing she's marrying BF next month. She is still married to H1. SD told us BM isn't getting married in May after all because they don't have any money. There are countless lies BM has told SD and I guess SD has figured her out. I'm sure it's easier for her to convince herself that DH and I tell SD that BM is a liar. BM also says that I told SD that BM abandoned her. I may post that here (maybe she's lurking???) and I've written blogs about that, but I've never had a conversation with SD where the word abandoned was used. Again, in her mind I guess she tells herself that we are putting these thoughts into SD's head. It's much easier than to accept the fact that SD feels abandoned without my grand influence.

Well, it will be a few weeks until they go to Mediation and they don't go to court until June 1. Hmmm, coincidentally it's the first day of summer and BM is supposed to take SD for summer. It's a further coincidence that BM was just served by DCSS to appear on June 8 so they can order her to pay something on her arrears. She currently owes nearly $3,500.00 in back support. But, I'm sure THAT isn't a motivation to seek custody. and I'm sure it has nothing to do with her not wanting to take SD for summer. Now that she's working, she left SD at grandmas during spring break... probably because she didn't want to get or pay for child care while she works. If she quits her job, DCSS will revoke her license because she owes so much in arrears and the only way to keep her license is to work. However, if she gets custody... she can quit her job (I'm sure she'll say she needs to stay home & take care of SD) Then she can collect child support from DH which will make up for not working.

We'll see what happens...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

lol....she will not get custody. Her past actions have deepened the hole so deep that even she cannot see it.
The mere fact that she uses her mother to such an extent as in pick ups and when she leaves her for spring breakk etc..etc..shows abandonement on her part to her mother. My friend use to do this for her son ...leave him with her mother...she lost custody to the father.
And she owes alot in CS. She is complaining about petty stuff and i wouldn't be surprised if she was slapped with a fine from the courts for wasting their time. Oh yah, ask for in court the lossof money yoru dh will have since he missing work for this....theycan grant it...along with paying your court fees when she loses.
So....its a waste of time, i'ld love hear how she is going to explain her behaviour in the last 2 years.
She must show that you are neglible in your household for her daughter. She must prove its a hazardous unstable environment. If she cannot, they will throw this case out and may even warn her not to file along with fines. And they may even garnish her wages forceably with all the back money owed. She's not saying anything unstable. She's complaining about a pair of pants and cake.
She is the one unstable and i honestly think this court thing will be her undoing.
Keep us posted!!!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I hope there is documentation showing that she cancels her visitations, doesn't spend time wiht SD but leaves her at grandmas, doesn't share medical expenses, doesn't take SD to doctor, doesn't return SD's phone calls, takes SD early from school, doesn't come to school events and more so: owes a lot of CS.

As about pants, she has no proof that there were any pants. I hope you have receipts showing how much you actually spend on SD and how many pants YOU buy.

as about cake it is ridiculous. DH should say that grandma brought cake wihtout notice and he rode a bike that day, couldn't take cake on a bike and cake got spoiled by the next day. Or he could say cake was already spoiled and he didn't want SD to have upset stomach. LOL

As about mouse, you don't want pets in the house and mouse was bought wihtout permission, maybe you or DH are allergic to mice.

Make sure everything is documented wiht dates, times and details. unbelivable.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Beyond ridiculous!
Try to relax and know that the court will see her ridiculous claims for exactly what they are.

Hubby's going to represent himself?


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Absolute insanity! What a waste of time and money. Gosh, Ima, I am sorry. :(

I think the courts will see how ridiculous this whole thing is, though!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

He's going to represent himself until after the mediation. In our County, the mediator writes a recommendation and unless they demand a trial (if they don't agree with the mediator's recommendation), the court usually adopts the recommendation. Even when DH and BM had a trial, the mediator had recommended the arrangement stay 50/50 and that is what the court did anyways... $8000 later.

If the mediator recommends SD live with BM, depending on his reasoning... we may go to trial but most likely not. If the mediator recommends SD stay here (which is what we expect since she has no grounds) and if BM requests a trial, that is when we will bring our attorney back on board. At least then, we will have the recommendation in our favor.

She attached a receipt for the pants to her petition. She also attached SD's report cards from K-2. Not sure what that has to do with anything, she's in 4th grade now & BM hasn't gone to any conferences while she's been living here.

I'm not stressing out over what the Judge might say, I think he will see it as stupid, petty & ridiculous. I'm a little more stressed that DH will lose time from work since we are struggling with the crappy economy. (He works for GM on commission) and I'm working 7 days a week with both of my businesses. He's going to ask for attorney's fees as well. The courts do not compensate him for wasted time. They can fine BM for wasting their time, but DH won't get anything unless he has the attorney on the case... even then, they ordered her to pay $1000 last time and she still hasn't paid a penny. We were in court three times for a total of 8-9 hours at $300 an hour... not to mention the time our attorney charged to prepare for the case. It still cost us several thousand and BM has paid nothing.

It's pretty transparent that she only asks for custody after she is served with child support papers. The court will see that too... the last time she was served with child support papers, she filed a response saying that I am abusing SD. She never pursued getting custody. After she was caught in her lie about how much spousal support she gets, she stopped going to court. I guess if I am abusing SD, it wasn't really that important to her. Now she is again saying that I am mistreating SD. TRANSPARENT!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Wow, this one sounds like such a winner!
I've been reading other forums and was shocked to see how many biomothers do not pay cs even though they owe. And when biofather has to cough it up , he has to or he goes to jail....What a F'd up world this is. I have never read so many stories in my life of deadbeat mothers.
But that forum was also very vulgar and the SM's on that forum was just down right brass , no understanding....cut throat...holy dina! I think this forum is so much better than many i've come across.
Ima, i am truly sorry to hear this woman causes so much havoc in your life. I hope the courts rake her on hot coals...and i just hope she really stops this ridiculous persuit.
Is she psychologically ripped? is she on meds for anything?


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I think she attached report cards from k to 2nd grade because she plans to say that SD had better grades when living w/ her , maybe missed less time at school? something like that I would sit down and compare the two side by side she is trying to go somewhere with that................another thing that worked really well for us in court is mention to your lawyer if BM has not been involved in school....like does she know the teachers name, has she ever had a conference w/ the teacher, what was sd last grade on her spelling test etc....when our lawyer had our BM on the stand you could have bought her for a penny when our lawyer asked her what SD's teachers name was and what school she went to...she couldn't answer!!!
Honestly, I think JUST the fact that she owes back child support will sink her ship...your SD is over 10 right? does she know this is going on? in some states (can't remember what state your in) a child can express his or her wishes, not that it sways the judge, but the child can be heard....that could go either way for you depending on what BM might be telling SD too...
I am just so sorry.....honestly this is my worst nightmare come true for you all :(


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I know she attached the report cards to demonstrate that SD got good grades when she was with her. She did get better grades in K-2, it's not like there's homework and reports like in 4th grade. 3rd grade, well she did start the year off with lots of problems. First, one of the problems with SD in her early grades, BM was doing her homework for her. That may also be why she did well.. but like I said, how do you fail K-2? The two biggest problems in 3rd grade were that SD didn't know many of the concepts BECAUSE BM had done her homework for her if she didn't understand it, instead of explaining it. The other issue was BM moved away with the new BF during the second week of schools, so she was dealing with a new school where everyone there was in their second or third week... her mom had just left her for the BF... and she was further behind because she came from an inner city school to a small rural school that was a little more advanced, with better teachers, smaller classes and better curriculum. So, it's fair to say she had it tough at first but I worked with her all year and she got pretty caught up with understanding concepts in math, worked on her spelling & penmanship and by the end of the year, she had improved a lot. That was in spite of BM trying to take her out of school early all the time. This year, she started using excuses that she left her work at school or lying about it being done & turned in already. We have also stayed on top of it and that is one thing BM is complaining about. She says that the note I attached to SD's binder to remind her to bring her work home, is embarrassing to SD and breaking her spirit. She just goes on and on how we treat her DD bad! I guess that's one way to look at it. We make her go to school everyday... she has a perfect attendance record. The only days she has missed were last year when SD came home sick from BM's house. This year, she hasn't missed any days. We make her turn in EVERY assignment. We don't give her any reward unless all her assignments are turned in & we keep track on ABI. We have gone to every conference, BM has gone to none. BM has fought for the right to take her out of school early, we have fought to keep her in class all day. BM sends her mom to pick up SD so she can't even say she goes to the school on Friday & talks to the teacher, she doesn't. She hasn't come to one school event in two years.

I guess it may come down to whether the mediator talks to SD and what she tells him about her wishes. She definitely wants to live with her mom. She says she wants to live here too but her reasons for wanting to live with her mom are to get her mom to pay more attention to her. She says her mom spends all her time on the BF and she thinks if she is there all the time, BM will spend time with her. As an adult, I can see that isn't true but we can't tell SD that. If BM doesn't spend time with her now (and doesn't even have her other daughter, who she has full custody of, living with her) then it's not likely she will suddenly decide to pay more attention to SD if she lives there. I am hoping the mediator will see that, but they may convince him that SD really wants to live with mom and he may recommend it. I would be surprised if he does, but you never know what to expect.

DH and I agree that if the court says SD would be better off with her mom, we won't fight it. We would disagree but probably not fight it. With any luck, the mediator will see that SD has been coached by BM on what to say and will agree she is better off here. Of course, if BM is given custody, I may completely lose faith in the judicial system. I know BM is building it up to SD how wonderful life will be when she goes to live there....


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I would try and document as much as you said above as possible....get letters from her teachers showing improvement, and also showing BM hasn't ever been to a conference........and you are right it is tough to fail k-2....I think some of your stuff is normal..as far as describing SD school habits I almost thought you were talink about my SD!!Third grade I think is where many kids get "the big shock" school is actually work, and there is homework, I think a lot of kids struggle in 3rd and 4th just getting acclomated to having more real work and responsibilities I don't think the reminder to bring homework home on her binder is mean at all I have done the same at times.....if SD brought her homework home like she was supposed to than she wouldn't have one on there would she? I would hope the courts would see that..honestly I think with how much you all have had to work with her as far as school goes to make certain she is caught up that if she moved w/ BM and her lack of interest what you all have worked for with her and school will go right down the toilet..we have to stay on my SD and make sure things happen..last semester we stayed on her about her work and she got all a's and b's..we were so proud..so we laxed up a bit this semester and let her be responsible on her own for most things....low and behold just got report cards last week and 2 of her a's dropped to c's.....we have learned our lesson!!!!!
I just dont see this happening......just the back child support alone should rule out her gaining custody....my SD would love to live w/ bm too! but when questioned you can see right through WHY she would like to I think a judge would too........I will keep your family in my thoughts and prayers!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I also second documenting as much as possible AND getting teachers on board. Would any of them be willing to write a letter supporting you and DH and your efforts with SD in school?

Sorry this is going on, Ima. It is all so frustrating and seems never ending. :(


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I just want to say that my heart is really with you, Ima, in your struggles with BM. Your poor SD! She's a good-hearted kid that is being told to believe something different than what she sees. These constant conflicts have to be painful for her!

Question - how can she file for anything when she doesn't have any money to pay the CS? Doesn't she have to pay court costs to file the papers? Who drew them up for her? Doesn't she have to pay someone for that?


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Hey, do you think this is all just about child support to her? Like she can't pay the really low child support now and doesn't seem to want to actually parent your SD. Could it be she just wants the money that your husband would have to pay to her if she gets custody?

Maybe you can put that angle on the court case, cause that was the first thing that came to my mind when I read this. She just wants money. That's so sad.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I didn't have time to read all the responses ... but .... you could also show that during k-2 when mom showed stability SD was doing well and that during that time she spent one week mom the next with dad it was routine and stable now SD doesn't know where she will end up on weekends instability on mom's part.
Causing SD stress during the week and cannot concentrate on her school work not knowing where she will be on weekends will mom come get her or grandma etc..


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

DH believes that if BM gets custody, she will leave SD with her mom or her BF's parents. She didn't even tell DH that SD was going to be with grandma for Easter break. She has done that on a few weekends... well, two that we know about but there could be more. This makes me think SD's sister's father doesn't know BM isn't living with his daughter. DH says it's not his problem or relevant to his case. i told him I disagree. If BM has two daughters and one lives with grandma and keeps it secret from HER dad, then it is possible that if BM gets custody, she will have SD keep it a secret from DH if she leaves her with other people. It's crazy that SD does keep the secret for BM because I know SD wants to spend the time with her mom... I'd think she'd complain about mom leaving her with other people, but she protects mom. I do think it's all about the money. She hasn't made a CS payment in two weeks, so maybe she thinks she doesn't have to pay now that she filed this??? She has her own way of thinking.

I know what the problem is.. it's not that SD worries about where she will be during the weekend, she worries that her mom is doing fun stuff with BF's kids. SD calls her mom & mom says "I'll call you back, I can't talk right now, I'm at the baseball field and I'll call you back after practice." and then BM never calls back. And that's only when BM answers. Since BM filed the case, she has had three calls, probably prying for info on how DH reacted to it. DH hasn't reacted at all in front of SD... he was served at work and we don't even talk about it in the house, only when we are alone in the car. SD doesn't know if DH was served, unless BM told her.

I spoke to our attorney today and she will be at the hearing if we need her, to jump on board. I don't really want to pay $300 an hour but I guess we will if it goes that far. Hopefully, it won't. If BM drops the case, they will not recalculate the child support. If she pursues it and they leave SD with us, she will likely end up paying DH even more in support. (or should I say "owing" because she isn't paying anything right now!)


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I don't know the rules of these things, but do you think that your lawyer or court would hear evidence that she has custody of the older daughter but she lives with grandma? If so, I would really go after the money angle. She's not paying support (and I know support/visitation/custody is all separate) it's not a stretch for any normal person (judge's included I would think, money talks you know) to believe if you can't pay child support (especially such a low amount!), you can't possibly support a child as the primary parent.

I think she is playing mind games with your stepdaughter. She knows that her little girl is a child and can tell her ANYTHING, anything to make her believe it's about her, but really it's about her not paying child support. It's sickening. I'm sure your stepdaughter is going to do whatever she can to protect mom and do what mom wants. That is normal, most kids do. Stepdaughter just doesn't know yet what her mother is doing is NOT normal. And she needs you and her father to keep teaching her what is normal.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

"DH believes that if BM gets custody, she will leave SD with her mom or her BF's parents. "

as soon as I read your original post I had the same thought. SD will stay wiht grandma. BM will get child support from your DH. No way SD will live with mom, if she would, then older DD could ask why doesn't she live with BM?

agree with nivea, maybe it should come up in court that BM has another child whom she has custody but the girl doesn't live with her. And overall the fact that SD stays wiht grandma during mom's visits should come up in court (along wiht CS issue). very relevant IMHO.

I also wonder about that first refusal whatever the rule says. If mom cannot have SD wiht her instead of leaving her at grandmas she must bring SD back to dad. But then again you always find it out afterwards.

I wonder how her exhusband can not know about his DD living wiht grandmas? How can one lie about child's residence? what about school district that they are enrolled at? or what about phone calls? when my X called, I could always call DD to the phone because she was always there especially evenings aftre school or weekend mornings(other times it is possible that child is visiting other people or is wiht friends or other family but not school nights). How could it be possible that SD's sisters dad doesn't know where his daughter lives? unless he is as bad of a parent as BM.

what a mess. hope it gets resolved without trauma for SD.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

to make it even more complicated, I guess BM's mother is moving to the same town where BM lives. It was mentioned last year that she was moving up there, but then she was working. Now, she's retired and the plan is for her to move this summer. I'm simply amazed at what this woman (grandma) does for her daughter (BM). She wrote the book on enabling.

Now, BM can say her other daughter lives with her, even if she lives with grandma still because next year she will be going to the school where BM lives. Unless there's a private investigator watching, how do you prove otherwise if grandma says mom has her kid? I don't think for a moment that BM will actually take custody of her older daughter... grandma will keep her and say, if needed, that BM has her. and this is more reason to keep SD here. Of course, grandma doesn't like SD the same as the older sister. Grandma practically raised the older one from infant and I think she's been her primary caretaker all along. That's why BM left her there, she's probably closer to BM's mother.

SD's sister's dad lives in Southern CA. He only sees his daughter a few times a year when she has a week off from school or during summer. I'm sure he knows BM and his DD were living with grandma but he may not know BM moved out. It would not surprise me if nobody tells him. It's not like he goes to pick her up, he sends a plane ticket and she flies to him. Like SD, her older sister probably wants to protect mom. Besides, if her dad found out mom left, he could make her move with him.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Double check with your lawyer but I think I remember our lawyer saying that child support and visitation are seperate matters BUT when it comes to custody Everything is evaluated..ability to raise child etc..... I think there is a way to sneak it in that she is behind on support and if she is so behind how can she care for this child?? etc....if I remember right!!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I agree, my friend lost custody of her son because she was always leaving him in her mothers care. Ex took her to court and son went with him hands down!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

SD might want to go with mom (and it is normal) but she is too young to deteremine what is the best. I doubt judge would go by what SD says.


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Update

Well, there are new developments... it just keeps getting better!

BM's mom has taken it upon herself to do a few things behind DH's back. A few weeks ago, SD used her lunch card to buy stuff without permission, even though DH makes her breakfast and packs her lunch & snack. We had the school remove the card and DH told her she cannot buy anything for the rest of the year. Well, BM's mom went to the school and paid $20.00 and opened her a new account. We get a letter today from the school regarding the second account. When we talk to SD about it, she admits grandma has been paying for her to eat at school while DH feeds her from home. Then SD tells us that grandma has been coming to her school to have lunch with her but she wasn't supposed to tell us. I guess she brought the aunt & uncle to see SD at school during lunch. Then SD tells us that she has been going to the school counselor to discuss her feelings. She seems to think it's up to her to tell the Judge where she wants to live... she asked DH if he is taking her to mediation on Tuesday? UGH!!! BM has really been drilling it into SD's head about going to live over there... she (SD) pretty much thinks it's a done deal.

DH is angry about everything being done behind his back... he is really upset that grandma is doing most of this, it's not even BM. When I asked SD about the secondary lunch account, she said her grandma told her that when we ask her about it, to have DH call BM. So, they apparently had a plan for when they were caught! Unbelievable!!! DH said there's no point in calling her, it will only be an argument over her right to let her mom buy SD extra food vs. his right to make the decision on how much to feed SD. At this point, we KNOW BM is not going to admit she's done ANYTHING wrong and talking to her is not going to change anything... she'll use it against him saying he called her to fight.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

could it be somehow addressed that if SD lives wiht dad and dad packs lunch, it is wrong of BM/grandma to bring lunch to school? so SD eats 2 lunches? could it be documented? if he is custodial parent, could she do it?

looks like grandma is behind all this. and i am 100% sure that when and if SD moves, she will live at grandmas, not mom. i don't know all these people and yet I am annoyed, cannot imagine knowing them in real life. crazy people.

talking to BM might not change anything but I would email her (for the sake of keeping paper trail) that it came to dad's knowledge that even though SD lives wiht him and gets lunch, garndma or mom bring 2nd second lunch to school. keep it for a record. i would also put in email that according to SD all of that is supposed to be kept a secret.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

This is all completely ludicrous. It's ridiculous. These people are stunned.

What is GM trying to accomplish by going to SD's school at lunchtime? Isn't SD already socially troubled? Eating lunch with your GM instead of your peers sure isn't going to win her any friends..


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Is SD overweight? This could be a health issue as well.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

SD was overweight. She was about 20-25 lbs overweight (she was 6 and weighed about 80 lbs) when DH and I got engaged. When DH moved in with me, SD's eating habits changed since I cook instead of eating out. I also told DH about portion control as he was giving her as much as he ate... a grown man! She thinned out in about seven months and she's not thin but healthy. She has issues with food that are not going to be resolved unless she deals with it. When she is at our house, she doesn't complain to us about the healthy eating, but I guess she goes to her mom and complains (or maybe just tells her & mom takes it as a complaint) that we don't eat out or she doesn't get junk food. So, BM gives her whatever she says DH won't. We let it go because she eats healthy here most of the time. She gained over 20 lbs. last summer at BM's. She's lost most of it this year, plus she's gotten a little taller so that helps. He resolved it by telling BM that she can keep putting money on the account and he will stop feeding her from home because she does not need to eat twice and if BM is not going to pay for her meals at school, she needs to let him know so he can feed her. (He sent her an email that she didn't respond to)

Ceph, she didn't just go to the school and have lunch with her.. grandma took her (grandma's not SD's) sister & brother in law. Yeah, I imagine SD sitting with a table of 70 year olds! That will make her popular!!!

Am I the ONLY one that thinks it's the funniest/craziest thing I have heard in a long time? How many great aunts and uncles are so interested in seeing a child that isn't their grandchild that they would drive two hours, two days in a row to spend about half an hour visiting? Is the whole damn family that nuts? I mean grandma lives an hour from us. She had to drive to SD's school to have lunch for 20 or 30 minutes with the great aunt and uncle (which I guess DO exist) to visit with SD. Don't get me wrong, if they are having a family picnic and SD is there, they will visit with her I'm sure... but to go THAT much out of your way for your siblings grandchild? I think that's just crazy!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

What kind of school lets relatives come hang out at lunch for no special reason on multiple occassions?? And now sd is going to the school counselor to talk about her feelings?? Isn't she in counseling already? Does bm think that the school counselor will be sympathetic to bm since grandma sits and has lunch with the girl??

Crazy!


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lunch with 70 year olds!!! At school???

What kind of school lets relatives come hang out at lunch for no special reason on multiple occassions?? And now sd is going to the school counselor to talk about her feelings?? Isn't she in counseling already? Does bm think that the school counselor will be sympathetic to bm since grandma sits and has lunch with the girl??

Crazy!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I was floored when the secretary actually started to jump down MY throat because she felt like I was complaining that grandma had lunch with her!

I think BM thinks that if she gets SD to tell the school staff that she wants to live with mom, the court will listen. SD stopped seeing her counselor in January when we lost our health insurance. DH is asking for sole legal custody and he may just get it now. He now has proof that BM went behind his back, making decisions that at the very least, he should have been consulted. Meals at school during his time and counseling, when the order specifically says both parents must consent to counseling... if a Non custodial father did those things, he'd probably be visiting his kids with supervision or not at all! She's just digging herself deeper with everything she does. The day of our trial, I told DH... let her have the rope, she'll hang herself.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

"This is all completely ludicrous. It's ridiculous. These people are stunned.
What is GM trying to accomplish by going to SD's school at lunchtime? Isn't SD already socially troubled? Eating lunch with your GM instead of your peers sure isn't going to win her any friends.."

Totally, totally agree.

Wow, Ima. What a bunch of wackjobs!

I agree, keep giving BM (and her mother!) enough rope and they'll hang themselves in court.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Hey Ima,

No way BM will get custody, it's ridiculous.
But the power of manipulation is worrying isn't it? When I read your posts it makes my heart beat faster. I recognize the false attempts by BM at trying to 'help' and 'support' SD in 'her' decision. Of course she involves as many people as she can, she can't do it on her own.

I remember that BM gave my SD's a diary once so they could write about their feelings. All these feelings were of course negative towards DH ("I'm disappointed with dad this and that bla bla"). I can imagine that BM would look over their shoulder or read it out later, or to just have that diary lying around in BM's house would be enough for the skids to think carefully about what they write.

And for your BM to organise a school counselor without informing DH is along the same lines. It's all a big game to undermine you guys, oh I recognize it so much!!!
It's so insincere and calculated, bah!

I really hope that the judge will not give SD a say because as you know that's what happened with us. BM drilled the skids to say what she wanted and encouraged the court to listen to the children. After all they are old enough now (10 and 12). And the court went for it straight away, seeing nothing wrong with giving the girls a say. The girls performed their little spiel and that was that. Our point of view was to try and keep the kids out of it, and we also argued that they were pressured by the BM to please her, but nobody wanted a bar of it. They did not want to hear it and FDH did not stand a chance. It was and still is very frustrating that BM got exactly what she wanted. I trust that having a lawyer will make a difference and you have very good documentation and arguments.

You are in a lot better position than we were and I'm looking forward to sharing the happy buzz over a good outcome!! Hang in there :-)


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Unbelievable!!! Well, not really!!!!!

Tonight we went to pick up SD from BM. She's wearing the same clothes from Friday as DH has requested....

only we stop to get a snack & SD points out her pants are torn. They are slit right up the back of the pant... all the way to the knee. A nice clean cut... like scissor cut!!! NICE.

So, I guess BM is even... (in regard to pants!lol)

SD looked like she was gonna cry.. probably was expecting us to get angry but I told her "no worries, you have lots of clothes.. we can always get new ones if you liked them." and we had our snack and came home.

We are realizing how desperately BM is trying to make us react to her petty crap. It's beyond the point of fazing us. DH and I just look at each other and shrug. It does bother me that BM is using her daughter (and hurting her in the process) to play these games, but we finally have disengaged and accept that nothing we do or say is going to make BM stop or realize what she is doing.

The more she does, the less we worry about the outcome.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

ima the entire family sounds like a whack job! They are soooo nuts!
But hey if mommy dear wants to act like her shoe size and scissor cut her daughter pants, then so be it. I just hope she doesn't start cutting them all every time she visits. Cause if that begins, then only fit her with her 'mom's' clothes ...its not nice to start doing this..just hope she doesn't do it to all the clothes.
OR best thing yet, if she does it the second time, send her in pj's.Thats what my husband said...lol.....and he said keep the clothes and give them ot the courts when its time to show them the crazy things she is doing.


 o
RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I think you should change the whole strategy, do not call BM on her crap, but just collect documentation and present it all at court.

yes DH should go for full custody.

I didn't realize SD was going to counselling wihout dad's consent. I am surprised that school didn't inform dad. My DD (already in high school)went to see school's psychologist to discuss some issues. And I immidiatelly got a phone call asking if it is OK wiht me that DD will be seeing psychologist like every 2 weeks. i gave consent. Then psychologist also asked to meet wiht me.

What i am saying I don't understand why elementary school child could go see a counsellor and CP is not informed? If DD would see somebody while in elemntary school and I wouldn't know, i would be furious.

Address it in court, also address it with the school. wrong on their part as well.

hope DH gets full legal and physical custody.

PS hillarious how grandma came to lunch, nuts


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Wow, I am interested about the school counselor issue now.

After the incident with SS's mom, DH emailed the teacher, and she called him and they discussed it at length. She was very appreciative of DH and kept saying how happy she was he had told her b/c it gave her a lot of insight into SS.

Shortly thereafter, DH got an email from the school counselor, asking for permission to pull SS out of class that day to get his feelings on everything. Of course, DH gave it.

I wonder if they also asked BM? Dh and BM have joint legal custody.


 o
RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

That's beyond ridiculous Ima!
I almost lost my coffee.

Makes me realize what a rare and precious comodity sanity it...


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

"I wonder if they also asked BM?"

Yes, that is exactly what they did. When they told SD that they had to call for permission, SD told them to call her mom so they did. (this was supposed to be kept secret from DH so SD was told to have them call mom) They KNOW BM is NCP because DH has talked to them several times about BM picking up SD early on Friday's for her weekends. They should have called both parents but at the very least they should have called the CP.

I really wonder if they would let a non custodial father get away with the crap BM has done? There is definitely a gender bias. We noticed it with family support because if a dad were to say "I don't need to work, my wife makes plenty of money" and simply said they shouldn't have to pay support... well, I wouldn't want to be THAT guy!!!

Back in January, DH got a judgment for DCSS to collect on the medical bills and attorney's fees he was awarded. He sent the order to them & they sent a letter to BM about it. (BM didn't show up in court so the Judge gave him a judgment) BM called DCSS... ranting that she paid those bills and she paid our attorney... blah blah blah. She was MAD!!! Well, DCSS called DH in almost an accusatory way... like why is he trying to get them to collect on something she's already paid. They call him up.. just on her word and put him on the defensive!!! Why? because she's a mom? I'll be willing to bet that if a dad called up & said he paid those bills, he'd be told 'PROVE IT'! (btw, she didn't pay!!! She can bring it up to the Judge at the hearing. lmao)


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Wow Imamommy, you have some serious crazy going on in your neck of the woods! Hang in there!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

hope you have documentation in place with dates and times. DH has to have it written and in front of him, men are bad wiht dates and times. make sure he is fully prepared.

even though CS might be a different issue it has to be brought up in court (that she owes money) because that's might be the reason she want custody-to get out of paying CS.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

I have to share with you my new resolution as it applies in your world just as it does in mine.

YOU CAN'T FIX CRAZY.

Since you seem a 'fixer' like I am and exhaust all avenues to research and find a solution, all I have to offer you are those 4 words. And a lamp. :-)


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~Mediation~

DH and BM had mediation today. SD has asked him three time is she was going... she wasn't even supposed to know about it.

DH said it went fairly well. The mediator started to give him crap over the pants... (my jaw hit the floor when I heard that!) but I guess BM wrote that DH intentionally threw away the pants BECAUSE she bought them. He told them they were too small and didn't fit her, we buy her most of her clothes and he thought it was petty to fight over a pair of pants... then said we had to throw away her pants from last weekend because they came back ripped. BM jumped up and asked him if he was accusing her and he told her no, but it IS in your nature to do something like that and it might be retaliatory because she angry about the other pants. He basically said SD goes through clothes and we buy new ones every few months as she grows, seasons change, etc.

Other than that, BM lied her ass off. She said SD was injured when we took her on a serve at 10pm. We never took her to do a serve at 10pm. I went to serve a subpoena on a guy that was expecting it... it was scheduled so no chance for conflict and we were coming home around 8pm when our window broke out on the side of the car. SD was sitting behind the driver seat and the passenger window shattered. We think it was a rock.. maybe kids using a slingshot because we were passing a ball field when it happened. It had nothing to do with being on a serve, we could have been on our way to dinner. She said SD was cut up from the broken glass. It scared her (it scared ALL of us) but no glass got on her or cut her. We stopped at a firehouse to call 911 and waited for the Sheriff to make a report for our insurance. While we were waiting, DH took pictures of SD in front of the fire house for her school project on CA. She was wearing her coat (yet BM said it cut up her arms) and smiling (yet BM said she was hurt & terrified). That was the only other thing DH had to really explain but BM tried to explain why her other DD does not live with her, why she has waited 2 years if this was 'temporary' and then BM told the mediator that SD absolutely wants to live with her. That got the mediator's attention and she asked BM "How do YOU know THAT?" Well, it was in the paperwork handed out before mediation that the child should NEVER be asked where they want to live because no child should EVER have to choose between their parents. I guess BM didn't read it or didn't think it applied to HER! BM also lied when DH said he believes she only filed for custody because BM doesn't want to pay support. He said it is a coincidence that she was served shortly before she filed... BM said she filed two weeks before she got served by DCSS. lol, the mediator can easily check that out in the court case because DCSS served her on 4/13 and BM filed for custody on 4/16. I really hope her lies bring her down!

I guess the mediator wanted to see SD so when they left mediation, they went into the clerks office & I went in with DH so they could schedule it. The mediator looked a little annoyed and BM was right there next to her. Then the mediator said when SD comes in, there is no parental involvement at all so it does not matter who brings her in. DH asked if I can bring her in so he didn't have to miss work and BM volunteered to pick her up from school & bring her in. The mediator again said it didn't matter who brings her. So, they set it up for 4pm after school and I said (and it just came out without thinking) that she can pick her up from the house at 3:30. BM practically snarled at me "WHY?" and I said so she can do her homework since she gets out of school at 2:20 and BM nearly bit my head off.. snapping at me that SHE can help HER daughter with homework. I said fine. The mediator said "there will be none of that in here!" So, in hindsight I should have said nothing. Of course, it shows the mediator that BM really has a huge problem with me. I guess at one point, DH said I am available to talk to her too if she needs to and BM jumped in and said "there's no need for that" or something like that.. basically saying the mediator does not need to talk to me at all. The mediator jumped on BM saying she'll talk to whoever she wants in order to make a recommendation but I am guessing BM did not impress the mediator.

BM stormed off down the street and when we were getting on the freeway, BM got behind us and then drove around us really fast and sped off. She was pissed. She does not like to be called on her lies and she also told the mediator she had an email where DH agreed she was to have SD on her birthday from 9-6, not 8-8. Well, she is supposed to bring that back when they see the mediator the week after SD sees her. It doesn't exist. They did not email each other about her birthday, it was discussed when we picked up SD. Besides, even if it WAS 6pm... she left SD at 4pm to go back to her BF and left SD with grandma! DUH! She is also supposed to bring letters she says SD has written about how terrible I am to her and how she doesn't like me. When BM told the mediator how SD and I don't get along, DH presented a stack of letters & cards SD has made me over the last two years. She gave me one yesterday that said "Happy early Mother's Day". I can only imagine she is going to make SD write letters to 'prove' what she says is true. If she does, I can't believe she thinks the mediator is going to buy that!

She is something else!!!


 o
RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

Whew!
As JNM said, "YOU CAN'T FIX CRAZY"


 o
~Mediation~

DH and BM had mediation today. SD has asked him three time is she was going... she wasn't even supposed to know about it.

DH said it went fairly well. The mediator started to give him crap over the pants... (my jaw hit the floor when I heard that!) but I guess BM wrote that DH intentionally threw away the pants BECAUSE she bought them. He told them they were too small and didn't fit her, we buy her most of her clothes and he thought it was petty to fight over a pair of pants... then said we had to throw away her pants from last weekend because they came back ripped. BM jumped up and asked him if he was accusing her and he told her no, but it IS in your nature to do something like that and it might be retaliatory because she angry about the other pants. He basically said SD goes through clothes and we buy new ones every few months as she grows, seasons change, etc.

Other than that, BM lied her ass off. She said SD was injured when we took her on a serve at 10pm. We never took her to do a serve at 10pm. I went to serve a subpoena on a guy that was expecting it... it was scheduled so no chance for conflict and we were coming home around 8pm when our window broke out on the side of the car. SD was sitting behind the driver seat and the passenger window shattered. We think it was a rock.. maybe kids using a slingshot because we were passing a ball field when it happened. It had nothing to do with being on a serve, we could have been on our way to dinner. She said SD was cut up from the broken glass. It scared her (it scared ALL of us) but no glass got on her or cut her. We stopped at a firehouse to call 911 and waited for the Sheriff to make a report for our insurance. While we were waiting, DH took pictures of SD in front of the fire house for her school project on CA. She was wearing her coat (yet BM said it cut up her arms) and smiling (yet BM said she was hurt & terrified). That was the only other thing DH had to really explain but BM tried to explain why her other DD does not live with her, why she has waited 2 years if this was 'temporary' and then BM told the mediator that SD absolutely wants to live with her. That got the mediator's attention and she asked BM "How do YOU know THAT?" Well, it was in the paperwork handed out before mediation that the child should NEVER be asked where they want to live because no child should EVER have to choose between their parents. I guess BM didn't read it or didn't think it applied to HER! BM also lied when DH said he believes she only filed for custody because BM doesn't want to pay support. He said it is a coincidence that she was served shortly before she filed... BM said she filed two weeks before she got served by DCSS. lol, the mediator can easily check that out in the court case because DCSS served her on 4/13 and BM filed for custody on 4/16. I really hope her lies bring her down!

I guess the mediator wanted to see SD so when they left mediation, they went into the clerks office & I went in with DH so they could schedule it. The mediator looked a little annoyed and BM was right there next to her. Then the mediator said when SD comes in, there is no parental involvement at all so it does not matter who brings her in. DH asked if I can bring her in so he didn't have to miss work and BM volunteered to pick her up from school & bring her in. The mediator again said it didn't matter who brings her. So, they set it up for 4pm after school and I said (and it just came out without thinking) that she can pick her up from the house at 3:30. BM practically snarled at me "WHY?" and I said so she can do her homework since she gets out of school at 2:20 and BM nearly bit my head off.. snapping at me that SHE can help HER daughter with homework. I said fine. The mediator said "there will be none of that in here!" So, in hindsight I should have said nothing. Of course, it shows the mediator that BM really has a huge problem with me. I guess at one point, DH said I am available to talk to her too if she needs to and BM jumped in and said "there's no need for that" or something like that.. basically saying the mediator does not need to talk to me at all. The mediator jumped on BM saying she'll talk to whoever she wants in order to make a recommendation but I am guessing BM did not impress the mediator.

BM stormed off down the street and when we were getting on the freeway, BM got behind us and then drove around us really fast and sped off. She was pissed. She does not like to be called on her lies and she also told the mediator she had an email where DH agreed she was to have SD on her birthday from 9-6, not 8-8. Well, she is supposed to bring that back when they see the mediator the week after SD sees her. It doesn't exist. They did not email each other about her birthday, it was discussed when we picked up SD. Besides, even if it WAS 6pm... she left SD at 4pm to go back to her BF and left SD with grandma! DUH! She is also supposed to bring letters she says SD has written about how terrible I am to her and how she doesn't like me. When BM told the mediator how SD and I don't get along, DH presented a stack of letters & cards SD has made me over the last two years. She gave me one yesterday that said "Happy early Mother's Day". I can only imagine she is going to make SD write letters to 'prove' what she says is true. If she does, I can't believe she thinks the mediator is going to buy that!

She is something else!!!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

sorry, don't know why it reposted except I came back to my computer and it said error and I hit resend. Sorry about that!


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

wow. what about CS? missed that, was it mentioned that she owes how much again? and what did she say about her DD living with grandma? unfortuantelyl BM probably coached SD to say whatever BM wants.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

mediation does not discuss child support, but it did come up that DH thinks that is her motivation for filing all of a sudden. He said nothing has changed in the last two years except now DCSS is taking her into court over back support. The amount was not discussed.

She said her DD was living with grandma to finish out the school year... Who does she think she's fooling? She moved in August/September at the beginning of school year when her other DD had JUST started middle school. She is now graduating middle school and will be going into high school. That really got the mediatior's attention, that she doesn't have either kid with her and has done nothing to try to get either kid with her for two years. (and she has full custody of the other one) Like I said, I don't think the mediator was impressed at all with her.. and he didn't even have to pull out the more recent drunken pictures she's posted on the internet of herself with her older DD commenting how funny mom looks... falling over drunk with her girlfriend. I guess maybe if it goes to trial...

BM will coach SD but they are trained to see it. I think the mediator has BM's number already... with her stating SD absolutely wants to live with her and demanding to be the one to drive all the way over here to be the one to take SD to the mediator, when she doesn't even come get her on Fridays for her visit's because she 'has to work'....


 o
RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

so i was wondering....IF by some freak chance BM did get to have SD live with her how would that work with Child support? I mean if she owes you all lots, and then SD went to live there you all would owe her support every month..I wonder if they would just start taking it off her back support? or would you still have to pay her? and she can just forever dodge her back support?


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

In our situation, she would still owe us the back support and DH would be ordered to pay her. It is set up as two separate accounts. Not fair, I know... but that's how it is. Well, it is fair if they suspend her license because she refuses to pay it... she'll be without a license and have to get rides or walk (or drive without a license) and if she has custody, how is she going to take SD anywhere without a license?

haha why am I even entertaining the idea with a rational response???? She smokes in the car with SD and it's against the law, why wouldn't she break the law by driving w/o a license. She has no respect for the laws or she would be following the one that says she is supposed to support her own children... not live off them.

But, yeah we would pay her support even though she owes DH.


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RE: those damn pants!!! ~again~

That just doesn't seem fair...I would think her owing so much back support should play a huge roll in whether she could gain custody...if she cant even be responsible for the little bit of support she is supposed to pay, how can she be responsible enough to raise your SD? You know I wonder though, if it got to that point where u guys had to pay her,(hope it doesn't get to that point!!!)but when you paid DCSE, if they wouldn't garnish your pmnt and return it right back to you........... crazy....I truly hope somehow that is taken into consideration for you guys!!!!!


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