ima & fine,

15 years ago

in the babying too much thread you exchanged experience and personal position I'd like some personal advice on if you don't mind.

My DD is 13 1/2. She is exceptionally bright, is considered by our school district as highly capable and is able to start IB track in HS next year. My dilema is that she is so uninterersted and unmotivated her gradebook is full of missing assignments and her grades are currently poor and not reflective at all of her capability.

I wonder if she thinks "that can't happen to me" about actually repeating 8th grade. It is fair to say she has been adored by all and has on many occasions been given kindnesses for being so cute or charming and those days are over. She seems to expect good grades be handed to her for showing up, and the teachers she has now aren't the teachers who've babied her before.

She is home for 2 hours after school each day, she is here with her brother (8) from 3-5. She calls at 3 I tell her to do her homework. When I get home at 5 she says it's done. Days later I look at the school website to find no homework turned in. I believe what really happens afterschool is CSI, NCIS, House, Law and Order. DH and I just put channel locks on all channels that these shows can be watched on. We have taken away her cell phone, ipod, favorite books. She does just enough to earn them back then slacks off again. I took her out of sports because her grades were crap. She is not overloaded with chores. She does her own laundry, because her room is a disaster and I won't go in there. She has a basement suite with her own bathroom she should be cleaning but doesn't. I ask her to put the dishes away or vacuum only once her homework is done.

I know when I get home I should be asking to see this work she's done, but she could show me any piece of paper and I wouldn't know any better. Have her sit at the table while I fix dinner? tried it, she doesn't acomplish much. She tries to stay home when it's time to go to little brother's sports practices and games, always clainming homework. I used to let her, but since I'm sure she just watches TV I tell her bring her homework. We just had a 2 week vacation that included a 6 hr flight....all she was supposed to do was math homework...the excuse was she didn't have a calculator. She always has an excuse and is never prepared. Unable to think ahead to the next step. She is very book smart, lacks common sense. Her Dad calls her the dumbest smart kid he knows (NEVER to her or infront of her, just in our private conversations).

I really feel like by this age she should be able to manage her school work on her own, the organization and turning it in on time part. She is ALWAYS saying "I don't know" and "I forgot" when asked why nothings been turned in, or she lies and says she did and blames the teacher.

I have never had a teenager before, and could never have forseen my super achiever turn this way. I have to figure out how to get her back on track before she is seriously doing 8th grade again next year. I'm open to suggestions from all, just thought to ask you two in particular after reading the other thread.

Thanks

Comments (7)

justnotmartha
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
If it weren't for the fact my SD just turned 14 we would have the same daughter. This all just came to a head last night, and I was actually logging on to post about it.

Is it just teenage indifference, or should we as parents been concerned when our kids don't seem to give a sh&t about the future, or think that it will all just work out and they don't have to try for anything? Have we as a society coddled our kids so badly that this is the norm now? We were accused of being so mean and strict because we push our daughter to do well and other parents don't care when their kids get C's or below. Our response was that if she cared and pushed herself we wouldn't have to.

At a loss.
imamommy
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
When I was in the 7th and 8th grade, I let my grades slip. I ended up not graduating 8th grade but was passed on to high school. I was placed in college prep courses during freshman year because of the placement tests but for me, it was a difficult time as my parents had gone bankrupt, we had to move to a new community (culture shock), then split up and mom's drinking took off. I had been happy with my ability in school but so much was going on at home, I lost my motivation. By the time I was out of high school I was not attending and had my son during senior year. (I actually completed a year of credits in one semester while I was pregnant because I was put in an accelerated program to catch up) The biggest problem was that I didn't have anyone to tell me I was screwing up. I didn't have much guidance and looking back now, I was suffering from depression. I didn't start seeking help for my depression until I was 18 or 19. I think the depression began when we had to move and then so many other changes happening in such a short period of times.

My sister's son also went from being an overachiever to college drop out that sporadically works. He also has a gambling problem but refuses to get help. I can trace it back to when his mom divorced his stepdad (that raised him) and remarried. His younger brother also went downhill too. They have not gotten any counseling which I think they should have. That is why I made sure my stepdaughter got into her counselor as soon as her mom left. I called the counselor ten minutes after BM told us she had moved... well before SD knew.

I would suggest that you talk to your daughter and see if there is anything in school or home that is bothering her, any new changes or people. Sometimes, it's difficult to get a kid to open up about their problems. I know I never wanted to talk to my parents about things. It might have made a difference if someone had pried and dug it out of me.
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"BM probably feels like she got a victory" She did. She 'won' the right to not have to come get her daughter. She can now send her mother so there is probably no reason for DH to have the order that she can't take her out early since she probably won't come get her at all for the rest of the year... unless it's 'an emergency' of course. So, really it IS a victory for her. However, since the court said 'in favor of DH', maybe she is angry now. SD got picked up yesterday at 2:20 (I am assuming by grandma) so she wouldn't be with BM until after 3. By 5, BM was on the phone yelling at DH about everything under the sun. She b*tched him out for talking to SD about the hearing, she told him to tell me to stop slandering her mom because she says I told SD that grandma was old and frail, she said that I told SD that SD will NEVER live with her (BM), and then chewed him out because SD told her that she has to do her own laundry at our house and BM yelled, "she's a CHILD!" and there was probably more but at that point, I told DH to stop telling me about it. He was pissed and I guess he called her on her lie in court, where she told the Judge that DH made up the story about her mom collapsing. He told her he is sick of her lies. He told her she needs to start acting like a mom and help SD with her project this weekend. She told him SD's teacher won't let her bring it home on Friday's so she can't help. He called her a liar and finally hung up on her. Then, a few minutes later, her mom called DH and he let it go to voice mail. She left an equally nasty message telling him she had filed a court case in her county and he was about to be served but since BM won yesterday, she called off the process server. She went on and on but it was mostly directed at me... telling him to control his wife... What irritates me most is that SD was probably right there with them, listening to them say all that stuff. No wonder she comes back angry at me. Then, I wonder what she said to them about me? I never told her she would never live with her mom. Nobody told her grandma is old & frail. DH talked to her about the case when she brought it up to him and I asked her how she felt about the hearing. She told me she wanted everyone to get along and I told her that the court was there for people that can't agree on something.. 'dad want X, mom wants Y.. they don't agree so Judge will listen to them both and decide what happens' and that's all I told her. Well, I did also told her that the hearing has nothing to do with where she will live, he isn't deciding that because nobody has asked him to. But, I did not say she won't ever go live with her mom. BM told DH to file the papers for mediation so they can decide custody and he told her if she wants to change custody, SHE needs to file. He already has the order he wants. If he didn't want SD to live here, he wouldn't need to file custody papers, he would just give SD back to BM. and what we did tell SD is that BM told DH that grandma collapsed... SD told me that grandma didn't collapse. We told her if her mom tells us it happened, we don't know if it's true or not and grandma is 70 years old and we don't know what grandma's health is. DH told her that his only concern is making sure SD is safe and he asked grandma for proof she is okay but she didn't give it to him so he had to ask the Judge to make a decision. We told SD that whatever the Judge decides is fine, we are not going to be angry about his decision, even if he doesn't agree with what dad wants. So the extent of the conversation was trying to calm her down about what was going to happen in court and reassure her that it wasn't 'hostile' and that we would also like for everyone to get along. The laundry issue probably came up because, like I said in my other thread, SD ended up wearing 'our' clothes and not her mom's back because they are still in the dirty clothes. I expected her to bring it up, so I had already planned on taking the clothes back to her on Sunday. It really is sad that this woman gets so little time with her daughter and spends the first evening of their time together, drilling SD for info.. or SD is volunteering slanted info.. or BM is slanting what SD tells her... who knows???? But, their day together starts off with BM and Grandma calling dad and yelling at him and I have no proof but I know in my heart, SD is right there listening to mom and grandma b*tch out dad and all the nasty things they said about me. Either SD must feel terrible for causing all the drama (because kids always think everything is their fault) or she is feeling triumphant because mom is 'fighting' for her and this is how they bond and feel closer. I don't know but it's pretty sad to me, either way. Oh yeah, and it's not hard to figure out where BM learned to lie so well. Grandma had told DH on the voice mail that she had filed court papers against him in her county and he was going to be served that day but she 'called it off' after BM won. Her county has online court case index and there is NOTHING filed in that county against DH.. not by her or anyone else. Lying about everything must be a family value they all share. They must also share the stupidity to lie about things that can be proven to be lies.
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ima
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Comments (12)
From the post "BMs Interference in Weddings, Honeymoons" * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 12:47 what's wrong with man helping mother of his children to fix something in her house where his kids live? unless he is a selfish jerk he would love to help. when people share children, there is nothing wrong in helping each other in time of need. people here judge everybody's situation by their own. if you have bad realtionship with your Xs or weren't even married to them or your Dhs have bad realtiosnhip with their xs etc it does not mean everyone has such drama in their lives. many people maintain decent respectful attitude toward each other especially since they share children! we are talking here about people we have children with! not somebody we had meaningless encounters. * Posted by imamommy (misshalk_2000@yahoo.com) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:08 you are absolutely right finedreams.... If he wants to help, he should! If his kids live there and he refuses to do something that will cause his kids suffering or discomfort, then yes he is a jerk. TOS's husband is a jerk for not opening the window. But he is a bigger jerk for cheating & leaving her with six kids. But, June's husband did not have any kids living with his ex. If he doesn't want to look at her furnace or anything else, so what? He has no obligation. He isn't a jerk for saying no. It doesn't make June an insecure woman because she doesn't want her husband to be his ex wife's handyman. Maybe, once he starts doing tasks around her house, she'll keep finding more for him to do. He is married to June. That's where his priority is, fixing things around their home. My husband has an ex wife. She has NEVER called him for a thing. They didn't have children together and the marriage didn't work out, she moved on and so did he. His ExGF that he has a child with, he doesn't mind when she asks for anything related to their daughter. When they had 50/50, he would run out and buy his daughter whatever she needed. He would give her money if she needed (and she wasn't even paying rent, utilities or food). He paid for all of his daughter's extra curricular activities. But when she calls to ask for band aids or directions or a ride home (she took her car into the dealership where he works for service and the shuttle offered to take her home, she refused and waited until DH went on his lunch break and had him drive her. He didn't get to eat lunch, but she didn't care about that), then she's out of line. Being married at one time or having children together does not create a lifelong obligation to the spouse when the marriage ends. The only lifelong obligation is to the children. It is nice if the ex spouses do things for each other (because they are their children's parent) but it's in no way an obligation. and just to set the record straight, you can have children with somebody you had a meaningless encounter with. It may not be the way to go, but it's not impossible. * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:10 people have some twisted understanding of independency. wow!!! two miscarriages, one ectopic pregnancy, three babies. that's a lot to do by yourself! and driven herself to a hospital being pregnant. what is here to be so proud about? that you had that many babies and pregnancies by yourself, is that a proof of independency? i see it as a proof of bad choices and lack of responsibility not independence. and a pregnant woman usually does it all yourself not because she is independent but because she has no man. and when a woman who had 6 children with her lawful husband thinks it is OK to ask him for help she is labeled dependent. wow. that's really upside down kind of logic. * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:14 TOS husband is a jerk, but he fathered six children with her. This is not about him being this or that, he had children with her. It is not like she did it all by herself. I can't believe you, imaommy, don't see it. maybe because your children are all from different men, and none of these men is in a picture, and you weren't married you don't understand that we are talking about TOS's childrens father, her exhusband of many years. not somebody she just had one date or one night with. * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:17 if you have children together then it cannot possibly be a meaningless encounter. * Posted by imamommy (misshalk_2000@yahoo.com) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:24 Having three kids before I was 22, irresponsible. I was irresponsible. I've admitted that and my mistakes. I was living with my BF when I had the ectopic pregnancy and drove myself to the hospital because he didn't feel like taking me. It was a huge factor in the ending of our relationship. and I don't know anyone that has ever physically shared the experience of a miscarriage with her BF or Husband. I never said I was alone and went through it by myself, but TOS is whining that she birthed six large babies. My point is that she sounds like a big baby, crying about how hard she had it giving birth to her children. She chose to have more children. She knew the first ones were big, did she think the next one would be small or hurt any less? Are you kidding? Or just want to judge my morals? She thinks it's okay to sleep with her exH now that he's remarried. How would you like your BF to be at his exW fixing things for her and if he felt like getting some, why not? They did have those 'til death do us part' vows!! * Posted by imamommy (misshalk_2000@yahoo.com) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:26 You don't think it's possible to get pregnant from rape, incest or a one night fling? * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 13:41 we were talking about TOS's children. she had them in marriage. and you weren't raped either. so how many of us here had children in those terrible circumstances you described? as about one night stand, not too many of us here had that happened either. but even if it did happened it is prefectly fine to ask that person for help when it relates to our children. we are not discussing theoretical probabilties of what could have happened but what really is happening in our lives. if you can't engage your children's fathers in helping to raise your children it does not mean nobody else shouldn't either. i can't believe your logic! * Posted by imamommy (misshalk_2000@yahoo.com) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 14:11 you don't know about my life. You know what I've posted here and you can judge me... I'm sure your life is perfect and you are living the best life, or better than me. I'm sure you are much happier in your life than I am. You said it's not possible, I disagree and give examples of how it is possible. You may not like my answer but if you read my earlier posts, you will see that I don't say ANYWHERE that it is okay for a father to not help in raising his children. What does that have to do with my situation? You want to be the moral police and i'm just wrong because I am not as morally correct as you? Get off your high horse lady... The man that molested me when I was six died two weeks ago. I can sleep better now, knowing he won't hurt anymore children. He's been free for the last twenty two years and I don't know how many other lives he's affected. But, he was a pilar of the community. A respected professor at a nearby college. Honored for his achievements in life. I'd rather be the whore that had three illegitimate kids with three different fathers in the forum of public opinion as long as I am at peace with myself. Only he and his victims knew the monster he was. Why should I care what a judgmental faceless person that is perfect thinks? and just how do you know whether someone hasn't been raped? You want the details or something? Then you can try to find a reason that it was MY fault. Kiss my @ss! Here is a link that might be useful: BMs Interference in Weddings, Honeymoons
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imamommy
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think it's a difficult time in their life, girls especially. They are not a little kid but not yet an 'adolescent'. It was the worse time for me to go through my parents' divorce because there were so many personal changes (such as puberty) and it was hard to find my place to fit in.
deborah_ps
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Don't want to intrude...but....
I agree with what Imamommy just said.
I also was more than capable, yet chose not to get my work done...or when I did I was so unorganized that I'd lose it in my locker. I was into socializing. No matter what punishment my parents doled out...it just didn't phase me.
And my daughter also went thru the same scenario :( Hers was especially bad whenever her room was a wreck. Clean room, better grades. I think her mind was a jumble when her physical world was a mess. Even though she hated to admit this was the case, her world was easier when her things were organized.
I worked outside of the home, had other children and am ashamed to admit that I wasn't as astute about keeping her on task.
I'm of the belief that had I created and followed a routine that she could count on it would have helped. I think it would have helped in my younger years too. Both of my folks worked, they were tired and distracted getting home, so did history repeat itself?
Yet all is easier in hindsight....even when I did "help" with her homework, she bucked and fought me the entire time. It was entirely frustrating for both of us.
I wish the best and success with your challenge :)
mom_of_2.5
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
no intrusion at all, I need all the help I can get with this kid. I remember myself at the same age, I was very similar. I think for myself it was more of a challenge to see how little I could get away with doing and still pass. I ended up in alternative HS. I am quite satisfied with my life, but wouldn't want her to take the same path. I just swear when I talk t her she can't even hear me.
sovra
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Is this a behavior that she's always exhibited, and it's just coming out more now because you're trying to back off from the oversight? Or is it something new?

I'm wondering mostly because my grades plummeted when I was 13. There were things going on at home and at school that, looking back, warranted some sort of intervention. I don't think any adult in my life could have thought things were fine that year, but I think they just must have decided that it was nothing more than particularly exasperating teenaged behavior. I managed to pull out of it as far as grades were concerned-- when I was 14 I set my sights on college as a way out--but I don't think you can count on every kid following that logic. If this is something new with your daughter, there may be things going on that she's not talking about. If you think there's a chance that she's having serious problems, please try to find help for her.

If this isn't new, maybe finding a tutor for her worst subjects or some sort of organizational help might be a way to go. I remember reading an article a few years ago about teenaged boys whose performance improved vastly when their parents hired some sort of organizer to give them a system for getting their ducks in a row. Some kids can't come up with a good system on their own, but they can implement it once it's given to them. A tutor/organizer may not do anything that you couldn't do yourself, but she may be more receptive if it's not coming from a parent. And it may also add an additional incentive to do what she needs to do, since some kids try harder for other people than for their own families.

One extra thought: whether she "ought to" do what needs doing on her own or not, she's clearly not doing it. If you want her to perform, you may need to accept that she needs more supervision for a few years. You said that she does the minimum requirements to get things back. Raise your minimums. And if you're concerned that she may show you "any homework," then you need tighten your oversight and check every night. If you read the same words or see the same math more than once, you'll know she's trying to trick you and you can call her on it. Look in her binders and make sure everything's there if that's what it takes. She may not have the insight to realize how important these school years are, but you do. You need to do what it takes.
finedreams
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It is typical I guess. i can relate to this. you are not alone.

DD was difficult in 7-8th grade, she didn't do that great at all. She didn't listen to anyone plus her grades went down. The only motivation for her was getting out of public school and go to IB school (which is a small and separate school serving different districts, not inside a regular public school). she knew it is not going to happen unless she does OK. i guess in DD's case she just overgew it and did fine after that 9although she could do better, she can be kind of lazy). i hear you.

the other thing...I think DD needed counselling because that was the time when she was coming to terms wiht something and i missed that, didn't think of counselling then. See if your DD has anything she deals with and needs counselling for. it could help with grades and everything else.

by the way i was difficult in 7th grade too. i think it is just the girls. But then boys go through that later. My nephew was doing great until junior year in HS. he is in college now and does fine but for a moment my brother thought he will have a high school droup out at his hand.

i wish i have some great advice. maybe talk to her about future palns, not getting to good school would prevent her from achieving those goals.

ima & fine,

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