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10 year old responsibilities

Posted by mom_of_4 (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 4, 08 at 11:09

After reading the post from Ceph and house rules... breakfast times and such came up and it is ironic because DH and I were just discussing this last night. I feel like our 10 year old should be doing a lot more than what he does do. I think back to when I was that age and it is a world of difference. I was on the verge of babysitting my siblings every afternoon after school at that age and SS doesnt even get up and get himself dressed in the morning. This came about because he has a big field trip coming up with school that will be an overnight deal and I told DH that we need to work on a few things with him before hand to make sure he is ready to not have mommy or daddy there to do everything for him. It actually kind of drives me a little nuts... skids wont even go and look for their own underwear and socks. Instead of going into the laundry room and looking for some they sit on the couch and say "I dont have any..." Okay, well then get off your butt and go and find some. This is the same thing with eating breakfast getting dressed... well just about everything that involves being somewhat independent. I know each kid is different and I try not to compare but my 5 year old can get up in the morning get herself a poptart and get herself completely dressed (albeit usually in some unusual concoction of clothes that she insists looks beautiful but at least she is doing it.)

Anyways, I fought really hard to get DH to be less over protective and allow the kids some independence because as I told him.. if they never get a chance to do things on their own and make their own mistakes they will never learn to be able to handle themselves as adults... so he has let up and finally I can say to ss 10 go ride your bike but be back at this time... and let him just go... which is nice for him he gets that independence that I think boys need... Now I just need him to have more responsibility to learn to do things on his own...

So, my question would be what is normal for a 10 year old to be able to do... mostly with regards to household responsibilities and personal responsibilities????


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

My opinion will be considered old fashion, but there were an awful lot of good children that came out of that old fashioned era. There were schedules and the same routine day after day, on week ends the routines changed a little. No yelling at anyone in our house unless you are calling for the kids to come in from play. I did the laundry, all of it and put it away. I cleaned their rooms and cooked their meals. They took the trash out, put their toys away, put their clothes in the hamper, hung up their wet towels, carried their dirty dishes to the sink after a meal. I think sometimes mothers are to strict about chores and that creates unpleasant situations with a lot of yelling and unnecessary fighting. My mother raised us the same way and she has 4 very responsible daughters.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I was a latch-key kid at 10 after looking after myself during the day with chickenpox for 2 weeks and proving to my mom I could do it and didn't need baby-sitting or an after-school day-care type program. My mom was single at the time, and working for a boss (jerk) who literally wouldn't let her leave all day to come check on me without losing her job. So there was kind of no choice... but thankfully I was all about wanting to prove I could be independent. I was cooking simple meals, starting to do my own laundry (but not well, so she kept doing this for me another couple of years!), dusting, vacuuming, getting/sorting the mail, taking phone messages, watering plants, picking out my own clothes... even nursed our cat back to health after I came home afterschool to find he'd fallen out of a tree! Not saying all this to brag, but to share one account of what 10 year olds can do. But again, I really couldn't wait to do all this independent stuff. Other kids are different... I think maybe for me it was because my mom wasn't so sure yet if I was ready to do all that stuff. So maybe "reverse psychology" is the way to go... act like SS being allowed/trusted to do chores is something that you're not quite sure he should "get" to do yet. Like a "cool big kid" does... and/or find a kid you know who's his age or maybe a bit older who does a lot of independent stuff and who you think SS will think is a real bad-a** and will want to hurry up to be just like him...


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Serenity, when I married all I wanted was to be independent, no borrowing from my parents, keeping a clean house, etc.. BUT as a child all I wanted to do was play. I was suppose to baby sit my little sister one day so my Mom could go to work and forgot about it. My sister was ok when I got home, but she had put lipstick all over everything. LOL


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Hmm, what could I do at 10?
We moved a few weeks before I turned 11, so I remember 10 and 11 quite clearly...
I know the sorts of things I did in each house, so I will list what I can.

At 10:
Sort and fold laundry, put the wash into the dryer (but not use the washer yet)
Dust furniture and knickknacks
Light vacuuming (not the kind where you move furniture and use funky attachments)
Dry dishes
Set table
Determine frequency of own baths and showers
Light bathroom cleaning (not scouring the toilet, but cleaning the mirror and countertop etc)
Spot wash kitchen floor
Clean windows
Wash walls
Polish wood furniture
Keep own room clean (with help from Mom when needed)
Wash and peel vegetables, stir things on stove, etc to help with cooking

At 11 I added:
Wash dishes
Use vacuum attachments
Clean tub and toilet (I doubt I did the most thorough job though)
Use the washing machine
Light cooking all on my own or to help with a meal (things like browning ground beef, making soup and grilled cheese, pasta with an easy sauce, bacon and eggs)

I didn't have a scheduled set of chores, Mom would just say what chores needed doing and we would do them. I often got to choose which chores I'd do (Mom would say "We need to vacuum, clean the windows, and dust today. Which would you rather do? Dad will do one too, and I'll do the other")
Sometimes she'd get me to help think of the things that need doing "Today we need to clean the kitchen very well. What all do you think we have to get done?"


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I don't think I did any of that at age 10. certainly no cokking or major cleaning or vacuuming. But I do everything now when I am an adult. I was on my own quickly after high school and was independent early. and nobody does nothing for me since then. ha. But when i was a kid I was a kid. I think kids have to be kids. DD did almost none of that either as a kid. vacuum? she was scared of vacuums up until not long ago.ha she does everything now though being on her own. because she is grown up.

in my opinion kids have to be kids and when they are grown up they get to be grown ups. there is the whole future ahead of them cooking, cleaning and washing and worrying about bills. I believe in kids being kids. This time will past so quickly and then daily work and chores and worries and responsibilities will take over. what's the point to start all this so early, childhood is pretty short. I don't see any need in that many chores and responsibilities for children. I grew up a responsible person without doing all that as a child.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh I don't mean to say that I slaved over a hot stove all day as a child... but chores like cooking and cleaning were for EVERYONE in our house.
So I did maybe 30 minutes of cleaning each weekend (usually on Saturday morning), and helped with either meal prep or cleanup at least once a day. Keeping my own room clean took about 5-10 minutes a day if I kept up on it but a whole hour on the weekend if I didn't... So I kept up on it!

There were 4 kids in my family and my mom and dad both worked. We all had to pitch in...
I don't have bad memories of doing chores. We'd put on music, and we'd sing and dance and joke around. It was actually quite fun, and often a nice chance to bond with my mom. This sounds bizarre, but some of my best childhood memories are cooking and cleaning with my parents.

Plus, good thing Mom taught me to cook early on, because she died when I was 16. I never would have had a chance to learn from my mom if she had waited on that sort of thing.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I am not saying it is bad for kids to do chores or kids shouldn't have them. They probably should especially if there are a lot of kids. It just that we did things differently. We didnot do any of those chores at that age. Neither did DD. I don't think my way is right or wrong it is just what it is. Our theory is that when time comes then you do things. It works for us. I started cooking as soon as I was on my own. I didn't cook when i lived with parents. I didn't keep my room clean being a kid. I didn't care. But I do now. i think it is a just a different school of raising kids. You are a kid until certain age hits and then boom you are an adult and do stuff.

Plus it depends on what is important. Like other kids are doing chores but then their parents help them with homework. I always hear how parents help kids with homework. It is a mystery to me what they mean by helping kids with homework. I never helped DD with homework, never, can't think of one time but she almosty had no household chores. But I never had to worry about anything school related. Nobody ever helped me with any school work, can't think of one time, but I didn't clean anything or cook. I guess it evens out.

sorry you last your mom so early.


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corrections

I mean LOST your mom, sorry


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Thanks

No problem! I knew what you meant.
(and thanks)


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

My life and list sounded pretty much like Ceph's. Saturday mornings before going out side I would vacuum, dust, oil ALL the antique furniture, help with laundry, clean my room and clean the bathroom. I would usually make breakfast in bed for my mom and dad because I liked to (not sure they liked to eat it but they always did!)and clean up the kitchen after that. I got myself ready in the mornings, made my own breakfast and sometimes packed my own lunch.

Fast forward to now, and my SD13 does little in comparison. She complains and grumbles because she is so over worked by doing the dishes and cleaning the kitchen after dinner, cleaning her room, washing her own clothes once a week and washing her sheets every other week. OH - and she gets an allowance for this. She will help with other chores when pulled and prodded, but then wants to know how much she will get paid.

Boy have we set a bad expectation.


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That makes me KUH-razy!

OOARGRGH!!!
JNM - you just brought up a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

A__ often asks "What will you give me?" or "How much will you pay me?" or "What do I get?" and it drive me up the freaking wall!
He asks this for things like chores, as well as for things like sitting at the table during a meal, as well as for things like being taken to a movie he wants to see!
I don't for sure know who nurtures this unsavory trait in him, but I lean towards his Grandma. He always has money after he's been at her house and, to quote BM, "She'd let him run around with a hatchet if he was leaving her alone"

Some of my conversations with A__ have included:
- Planning to go to a cool kid's museum... "What will you give me?" "A trip to the museum" "No, besides that?" "Nothing. I'm taking you to a museum. That's already a lot."
- Getting ready for bed... "What do I get for brushing my teeth?" "No cavities." My BF laughed his butt off at that one.
- He was asked to set the table for supper... "What will you pay me?" "I'll pay you in supper." "No, I want money." "Tough cookies. You get food."

He generally accepts that he gets nothing and does what he's been asked after you say "nothing", but it really drives me bats that he tries it!


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I tend to feel like he should be responsible for the following:

cleaning his room
cleaning the kids bathroom (along with his brother I dont feel like the girls are old enough to do that yet although they do have to pick up their own clothes)
getting up in the morning with an alarm clock set (and us as a secondary)
getting dressed
feeding himself
clearing the table (along with the others)
taking his turn for dishes
folding and taking care of his clothes
obviously his homework etc
and helping with cleaning the yard up

I really dont feel like that is alot and I know that I did a lot more than that growing up. I too had the satureday morning clean up with our dad. I mean there are four kids in the house and if I had to do everything it just wouldnt get done. One days worth of clothes is at least two loads of laundry ... just keeping on top of that is a chore and a half. Not to mention a days worth of dishes for 6 people. Right now, I have a major issue with just them cleaning their rooms... much less doing much else. It is a little ridiculous. I have given him all of these chores in the past... but it always falls back to me in a week or so time.

I think tonight I am going to go to the store and get some poster board and just make up little chore lists... and I think I am also going to try and do what ceph did (i think she said on another thread) and put the notes in the bathroom on the mirror or something... brush teeth comb hair deoderant get breakfast etc... I dont know...

I know that he is very immature for his age and we have done things in the past to help this as far as the social part goes with more activities with kids his own age as opposed to just sitting around the house with younger siblings... I just wanted to make sure I wasnt being unreasonalbe as to what I expect him to do. Also, all of the other kids do have chores and what not... it is just that he came up recently when I was thinking about his trip and how many things we do for him that he will need to do on his own.

I will probably make sure he is uber prepared and do things like I do for my daughter when she goes on extended visits to grandmas... ie:put his entire outfit for the day socks underwear shirts pants etc in a ziplock baggy so all he has to do is pull out a baggy but I am just really worried about this trip.... I know it will be good for him but gracious...

I am also concerned about giving him money to take with him. Last time he had any kind of money he took it to school and let some kid take it from him and then didnt even do anything about it. "Oh well he said he would give it back later" ARGGGHH I told DH that for the next month or so we needed to make sure we took him with us to the store and let him pay so we can know that he is paying attention to his change and keeping up with the money and what not... but other than that I dont know what to do.


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bribes and empty nests

This brings funny memories. In moments of desperation I used to offer DD money for cleaning her room, she used to say she would rather have no money than clean her room. LOL i couldn't bribe her with anything. As a joke I would offer unreasonable amounts of money like hundreds of dollars. Still nothing. hahaha

Now her room is clean but she is not here. Sometimes I think I'd rather have her here than her room clean.

This time will fly by quickly and kids will be gone and rooms will be clean and houses will be quiet and nobody will ask for breakfasts to be cooked and nobody will bug us with silly stuff. Yeah, now I neeed a tissue...


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

We put up a couple reminder pics for A__, but BF's stupid brother took them down. We might put them back up again here though...
They were things like a pic of washing hands above the toilet and a red circle with headphones in it because he's not allowed to touch BF's headphones... Just a few simple little things

I think TOS uses (or at least suggested) a morning guide with pictorial and words of all the steps for the morning (Wash face, brush teeth, eat breakfast, feed dog, put on clothes, get lunch, get backpack, put on shoes) and if we start having A__ a school morning or two a week like we're hoping, I think I'll make one and include rough times on it.


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allowances

mmmm yes the allowance thing... I am of the opinion that chores are apart of being a family and working together to get things done that need to be done... not to get paid... no one pays me to clean my own house... why should I pay a kid to clean their own room.

If they want to get money they have to do extra things...like say the lawn needs to be mowed or my car needs to be cleaned out or washed or whatever.

I am considering starting an allowance with the oldest and do a forced savings plan deal... half goes into savings. Then I thought I would do something similar to a friend of mine and if they want something that requires them to take money from savings they have to wait one month before the purchase it to make sure that is something he really wants to spend his savings money on.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Your list looks good to me and the poster board and notes are good ideas too.

I'm afraid that I will be too relaxed because of my childhood. My daughter is still too young to have chores, so I have some time.

I do think I will have an allowance system set up. I mean, anyone could fold laundry. They could do a half-assed job just to get it done. However, if they know they are getting an allowance for how well they do their chores I believe that is a good life lesson for a kid. You do the job right, you will be rewarded.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Allowance is great if you have one child... more than one can get pretty expensive. I have always said ... we do things for the family because we are part of a family... they ask for money and get money... like stopping at the store on the way home.. they get a $1 or heading out to the market they get to pick one item just for themselves.

The site below has a chart for EVERYTHING. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: check list for everything..


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I looked at that website and it was great... there really is a checklist/chart for EVERYTHING! Thank you much

I agree about allowance getting expensive with more than one kid... that is why I havent done it up to this point. But, I am seriously considering it.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I'm with you mom_of_4, I'll pay the kids when I start getting paid...lol

An allowance is supposed to teach them how to handle money. Chores are teaching them to be responsible, not to earn money. If you have lots of kids, the answer is smaller allowance. With my daughter, we would go shopping and she likes to throw things in the cart. That costs a lot more than giving her a weekly amount. (things like special toiletries that I don't use, clothes she wants but may not really 'need' or a CD or DVD.) That stuff adds up quick. When I realized how much it was costing me, I told her that I'm going to give her a set amount and she can buy those things from her own money. (of course, she didn't really like that idea...)


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I found this one too ... it like webkinz ... they collect points by doing tasks and buy stuff for their "cool cat" milo....

Going to let SD9 try this one ....

Here is a link that might be useful: Handipoints


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

we didn't really have chores set in stone but if my mother told us to do something like run the vacuum or do dishes we had damn well better do it ,lol. She's short but scary!

I don't rmember being told to do these types of things til early teen yr.s perhaps when we started getting messier. It was rather informal and we (3 girls) got no allowance but when we started driving we'd get a $20 bill here & there but not if we weren't behaving. When I crawled up the porch drunk at age 16 I received no play money and no car privledges for 6 months and they stuck to it.

I was pretty much the same with my son and my S-kids were older when DH & I got married so I only had a active hand in helping with the youngest, so I didn't have these issues too much.

Though my son was a little stinker & would always try to sweet talk me into doing hs laundry etc, then he'd get his girlfriend to come over and clean his room! He's real good at batting his eyelashes and sweet talking.

He had to have a job during high school to pay for his car & ins. And in 11th grade I took his car and sold it after he got 2 speeding tickets and he had to go without for a yr. (I still hear about how mean this was) But when he was younger til high school I had the same principal as my mother, I ask you for help & you better move it Bub.

I am a lucky mom, he's a good kid and didn't give me too much trouble..I think when they are little it's nice to let them be kids but different kids do better wih different parenting styles. My grandson is so darn beautiful he could talk me into anything without ever doing a single chore-luckily he's also a pretty easy kid mostly does what he's told but he is only 4!


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I read an article that children are beginning to have adult health problems at a very young age and it was due the same pressures that adult endure. Their lives are so schedule, they have no time to be kids. Things like little league, piano lessons, swimming lessons, doing adult chores. The list goes on and on. I think they need to have time to be kids, to be carefree. they have enough pressure when they become teens and adults.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I have read similar articles, Jonesy. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of it.

The was society is today, it is a dog eat dog world. To get into a "good" college is projected at costing around $300,000 when it is time for my child to go.

I find it hard to strike a balance. From what I have researched, sports are an extremely good way to go. It teaches children discipline, obedience and responsibility while keeping their interest.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

My nephew and his wife are guilty of putting pressure on their children. Their children have no time to be children. I doubt they do chores, their house is so cluttered you can't sit in it. LOL I asked them about collage, what if their children didn't want to go. His reply was, that is no option. Boy is he in for a big surprise.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I can understand what your nephew is going through. I too think it is not an option to go to college anymore.

The job market is terrible. More and more jobs are being farmed out overseas, leaving the US with significantly less. Jobs that are here either require education or if they don't, the pay is around minimum wage.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

My father never went to college or even tech school, but he makes a considerable amount of money now. He owns his own HVAC business, so I find it to be rather a blanket statement that people without higher education are doomed to earn minimum wage forever.

I for one have never held a minimum wage job, and I certainly held jobs before I went to college and while I was in college.

I also feel (and I know I'll be disputed on this one) that it's not our job market that's terrible, it's the work ethic of the people in this country. I've heard many people say that they will not work for less than such and such amount because they're worth more than that. Apparently no money is better then some money to these people.

To the OP, you've got a lot of work to do if a 10yo isn't dressing himself. Start small, like, "Here's an alarm clock and what you're going to wear tomorrow. When the alarm rings, get up and put these clothes on."

If he's pretty helpless, a chore list would just seem overwhelming right now, and there's no need to punish him for a problem he didn't create. I would suggest maybe a half hour a day for shadowing and adult in the house and learning whatever chores they're doing. Eventually, once he's mastered some of them, you can assign a few that are now for him and maybe toss in a reward or an allowance.

Only you know his capabilities, so it would be hard to suggest exactly what he can and cannot handle. For example, my 4yo DD can clean her room up spic and span and ready for the vacuum. My 9yo DD thinks cleaning her room means shoving everything under the bed and running the vaccuum. My 9yo SD thinks cleaning her room means getting a few trash bags, throwing everything in them, and putting them outside. So I can send the 4yo to clean her room unassited, but I have to help the 9yos. They just don't get it yet...at least not the way I want them to.

Good luck.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh_my, you are so right about the work ethic of the young people today. Many of the small business owners in my community can't find reliable employees that even show up. There are no minimum wage jobs around here, even McDonald's start out at $10 hour and they still can't find anyone that wants to work. When I was 16, I couldn't wait to work 'legally', I had been working since I was 13 in the fields. (I packed bell peppers during the summers to buy school clothes for three summers) Teenagers today don't seem to care about working, of course many parents will say it's because they have to study to get into the 'right' college but many of the people that go to college and graduate, don't actually work in a job that they have their degree in. I've also posted that my father & grandfather didn't go to college and were successful. (in fact, my grandfather left home when he was 12 and eventually built a successful business that he operated for 30 years before he died)

and this morning, I slept in. DH got up and put a movie on for SD in her room and went outside to mow the grass. Later, I got up, took my shower & went to get the mail around noon. SD came out of her room in her pajamas. I was surprised and asked her why she wasn't dressed. She said, 'my dad didn't give me my clothes.'. She has a routine every day and knows what to do, but no matter what, she won't do it unless she is told to, every day. It's very frustrating for me & DH because we were both the kind of kids that got up and got ourselves ready, went out and played or did things on the weekends. (I also got her an alarm clock that she won't use and will even ask me what time it is instead of looking at any of the many clocks in the house)


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

You live in a location where you can buy a nice house for under $200,000, but McDonald's is paying ten dollars an hour!!? Only one of my kids ever had a job during high school or college that started at more than about minimum wage. Almost all fast food jobs around here are minimum wage, which for our state is now about $8 an hour, and even those jobs are not easy to get, unless you are 18 years old. No one wants to hire kids who have legal restrictions on the hours they can work and who aren't allowed by law to close, especially when there are so many adults willing to work at minimum wage. It is especially difficult to get a job if you don't own your own car - employers don't like to hire teenagers who have to depend on their parents to get to work, and there is no public transportation. I know - you are going to tell me that when you were young, you walked 5 miles each way to get to your job in the fields. My kids have walked well over two miles to get to their minimum wage jobs in all kinds of weather, but they are NOT going to walk 5 or 6 miles each way down a busy numbered route with no sidewalks.

It makes no difference that your grandfather was a success without college. So were a lot of people's grandfathers. That was a different era.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

There's that "hand it to me on a silver platter" attitude again.

You can't buy a nice house for under $200,000? I think my sister's house is nice, and it cost her $68,000, but I have a feeling that TOS's idea of nice and my idea of nice are not the same thing.

In my state minimum wage is $6.85. Any way you look at it, it's still more than $0.00. Most jobs around here can't find good people who show up and work, and a job that requires no skill, i.e. McDonald's, generally starts at around $8.00.

Lets cound the good reasons not to work.

1. "Almost all fast food jobs around here are minimum wage, which for our state is now about $8 an hour." Like I said, some money is better than no money.

2. "and even those jobs are not easy to get, unless you are 18 years old." Maybe you're right, if something's not easy, why would you even bother?

3. "No one wants to hire kids who have legal restrictions on the hours they can work and who aren't allowed by law to close," I'm sure in TOS's area that all jobs require working past 8 p.m. and that there are no jobs with daytime hours available in the summer.

4. "especially when there are so many adults willing to work at minimum wage." From what I've seen, there aren't so many adults willing to work at minimum wage. There seem to be a lot more adults willing to collect Welfare instead, and quite frankly, minimum wage would net out to a lot more if we didn't have to pay taxes to support people who chose not to work.

5. "It is especially difficult to get a job if you don't own your own car - employers don't like to hire teenagers who have to depend on their parents to get to work, and there is no public transportation." Ever hear of a bike, catching a ride with a coworker, or calling a cab?

Also, if in a pinch for money, there's always the unregulated jobs...babysitting, mowing lawns, shoveling snow, selling your old clothes on e-Bay, etc.

I can totally see why TOS's children wouldn't work. She apparently feels that it would be way to difficult for them to do so, so they might as well not bother. It's an offshoot of the same "silver platter" mentality she displayed when she stated in another post that her ex ought to be giving her $40,000 a year in child support.

Adults need to quit waiting, quit whining, and go get what it is they need to make it, and they need to teach their children to do the same.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I think what TOS is saying is that adults are taking some of those fast food jobs, so they are not left for teens. Every employment situation is local. What is happening in your area is not germane to what is happening in mine and vice versa.

The bike may not work for late night jobs etc.

And if you dont know what her X used to make, or could make, who are you to opine on the 40K number.

And it seems to me that TOSs kids are doing great. I tell me DD, that her school is job one. Encouraging teens to work too many hours, spend time commuting is not productive in the long run. I want my DD to have a great career she is happy with . And before I get blasted with everyone who worked 40 hours a week in high school etc., I think teens who work too many hours jeorpardize academics.


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Local

And in my area, you would be lucky to find a study for 200K. Like the job market, in real estate everything is local.


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RE: Get Real

I don't care if TOS's ex makes 8 figures a year. It doesn't change her obviously feeling of entitlement.

Also, I never suggested a 40-hour workweek for a high school student. I mentioned a summer job, which would not affect acedemics.

In an area where a study costs 200K, I'd venture to guess that average wages are a bit higher as well, and if not and you can't make it, guess what...MOVE!!! Certainly there's not a bunch of people living in expensive homes who only pull minimum wage.

I know that I can drive 30 minutes up the road and a crappy bungalow will cost 600,000 just because it's on a golf course. Houses in that area are very pricey. That's why I don't live there. Duh!!

But you two can go on with your poor me, it can't be done attitudes. I see that they've already gotten you pretty far in life.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh my,

I dont see entitlement. I see expectation that Dad should contribute fairly. I guess you dont see it that way. I can see why SMs dont see it that way.

I live where I do because the schools and the commute are excellent.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

A CAB??? You're kidding, aren't you??? There are no taxi companies out here. BTW, all my kids did/do work, mostly at minimum wage jobs and from around the time they were about 15. My point was that it is almost impossible to get a job paying more than minimum wage, and that there is a lot of competition from adults, especially those who are in the country illegally and don't have a lot of options. Consequently teenagers don't have a lot of options either, especially when transportation is an issue. And no, I am not going to let them ride a bike down a 50 mph road with no shoulder in the dark.

My house is assessed at around $280,000. It is 900 square feet, one bathroom, built almost fifty years ago. Is that what you consider luxurious?

Move where??? I am fairly certain that there is nowhere in this entire state, or even any of the adjacent states, where you can buy a 3 bedroom one bath house for much under $200,000.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh my,

I think most people in this country would think a mother of 5 or 6 (cant remember) from a long term marrige, if X were making 8 figures, yes would be entitled to adequate support, and yes 40K sounds low to me. Dads dont stop being dads after divorece. Our child support system is meant to see that children have the same standard of living in CP as in NCP house (not that TOSs X seems to see the kids much).

So can I gather that you think that CPs are not entitles to child support in general, or that it should be capped? I suggest that you contact your state legislatures.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

An expectation that Dad should contribute fairly to whom...children or BM(ex-wife)???

And for informational purposes, not only am I a SM, but also a BM to not only a child with my DH, but also a child from a previous marriage for whom I receive child support, so I assure you that I do not see things only from a SM's perspective.

And where you choose to live is your business, your decision, and you're the one who has to live with that decision, but I certainly wouldn't feel it's your ex's responsibility to provide for your decision.

So you can whine and complain and put people down if it makes you feel better, but I think it would do some people good to realize that they are the keepers of their own happiness and that they shouldn't rely on others to make it for them.


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RE: State Legislature

Less than 40K is obviously what the legislature in TOS's state chose to give her since she said she SHOULD be getting 40K and isn't.

I never said anything about a cap on child support. I think fathers should support their children...more than just financially.

I also think that greedy, entitled, custodial parents (mothers) often think that this support should relieve them of many of their own obligations to provide for their own children. It's a sick mindset to have and a detrimental one to pass onto one's children.


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Child Support

Oh my,

TOS is apparently the only one supporting her children. What she has asked for is CS. Her husband has evaded, as many do.

I see greedy SMs who think every dollar of Dad should be for them, and that previous family would just go away.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

In the town I moved FROM, a very nice house was about $200k. In the area I moved TO and currently live, you can't get a house for less than $250k and I didn't say it was 'nice'. The average price for a house in the area I live in now, is $500k and up to multi million dollar homes. But, CA is a big state with a lot of variances in housing costs. and I believe it's leading the country in foreclosures right now, so prices are dropping. (I've actually served many people in those multi million dollar homes)

and yes, fast food places are starting at $10 here and still can't find workers. Teenagers here, well most of them, have a car that rich parents bought them so instead of working, they are hanging out and partying with friends. My daughter has a couple of friends that both have jobs so it's not that employers won't hire kids under 18, they are 16 & 17. Neither one 'owns' a car. One lives walking distance from her job, the other has a license and borrows her mom's car. My oldest son has two jobs and doesn't even have a car.

and no, I didn't walk five miles to my job in the fields. I got a ride and paid a few dollars a day for gas. But, when I worked at Wendy's & Weinersnitzel at the same time, I got dropped off at Wendy's in the morning, worked my shift there and walked across town to work my shift at weinersnitzel. It was more than five miles but I loved to walk in high school & was in great shape. I also walked from where I lived to my school, which was also about six miles because I didn't like riding the bus. It didn't bother me to walk, I used to leave early to meet my friend and she'd walk with me. I got my license when I was 16 and I still walked almost everywhere I went. Kids today are too babied. Even my kids have balked at walking. and even when my son was a baby, I walked from work (most of the time it was 11pm) and I don't know if you consider that 'late night' but I guess it would depend on the community you live in whether that would be safe or not. There is also the option of getting a ride from a co-worker with a car, if you offer to pay them.

and oh_my, I started my company because I wanted to work but didn't want to get a traditional job. I worked ten years in an office with guaranteed hours and pay, benefits, etc. but when I had health problems, i was discriminated against. So, I left and brainstormed about what I could do that would make enough to support myself & kids. The first year, I had to take jobs at Mervyns (part time) & Wal Mart (full time) in addition to my 'company' but as my clients increased, I left those jobs. For me, self employment is the best thing because I have control. I've tried to convince my son that he could start with a mower and build a business from it. There is a great demand for it here because most of the properties in our county have acreage with brush that has to be cut down before fire season begins. Many that own property, hire people to clear it for them because they have to work so much to pay for their properties.... I think it's silly but they apparently don't. Still, he doesn't want to be seen cutting grass. He doesn't see long term, where he can be the owner and have a crew working for him.


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kkny

is tos's exH making 8 figures? I thought he was barely working and living off his wife. If he's making 8 figures, he should pay her at least $40k, but it's my understanding that he wasn't working much.

You may see SM's as greedy but even before the SM comes along, it's the greedy ex wife that is sucking the exH dry, making him pay for everything she perceives he did wrong in the marriage or just for leaving her. It's the new wife of those exH's that come into the marriage, where the greedy ex wife takes him back to court for increases because now he has a wife to help him so she thinks she (using her kids as an excuse) should benefit from his good fortune in meeting a woman with an income. (or if his woman doesn't have an income, the ex wife wants to make sure he can't afford to support her with what he has left after she's taken all she can.)

Those are the cases where I can see a SM complaining about the support issue. If my DH was paying support when I married him and his ex kept taking him back to court to increase it and therefore, I was having to contribute even more to make up for what he was having to send to his ex, then it is affecting me and I'd sure be pissed too.

so, kkny, there is more than one way to look at it.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

You dont seem to see more than one way to look at.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

No, he is not making 8 figures. He was making 6 figures when he left, and became unemployed and purposely remained underemployed for years. He is still not back to where he used to be in earnings. My issue with him is that a) his income is mostly disposable, because he doesn't have to pay rent/mortgage/utilities and b) the $40,000 is far less than what he was providing toward the kids' support when he left and is what the state guidelines specify that he would have to pay at his original income and c) in my state, child support is capped at three children. If you have a dozen children, the NCP parent is not required to provide any more support than he would have to for three - unless they have different mothers.


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RE: Take a Lesson

Ima, Every whiner should take a lesson from you. When life gave you lemons, you made lemonade. You say you were discriminated against, but did you sit around crying poor me? No. You figured something else out, like any normal adult should. And self-employment is a great way to go. Both DH and I are self-employed. DH owns a landscaping company and actually started out with a mower and a truck.

I feel a lot of ex's act like they too are one of the children dad should be supporting, and I totally agree that many think a SM's income is somehow relavent to what they should get.

I was shocked to see that after requesting that SD never be left alone with me (immediately denied in court), BM went on to request my tax returns in making her child support case (also immediately denied in court). I give everything I can to my SD. She's on my medical. I pay the premiums and copays. I buy her clothes every time I buy the other children clothes. I take her on outings and put her in activities. I buy her stuff for her lunch when we're at the grocery store, but I did not work hard to get where I am today so that I could support that woman. She is not a child, and she needs to grow up and take care of her responsibilities herself.

Why should I get to take part in the parental responsibilites when it's been made perfectly clear that I'll be having no parental rights to SD? I do for SD when she's here (and often when she's not) because she's one of the children in our home and we love her, but her mother is not one of my children and neither I nor my DH have a responsibility to make sure she's taken care of.


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theotherside

It's unfortunate that he's left you in such a bad situation. I don't necessarily agree with the logic that his disposable income is higher because he doesn't pay rent, unless it's part of something he works for, it's irrelevant. If it's free because it's part of his salary, then sure, it's income. My husband has less living expenses because he has me and my income. If his ex were to get more support because I'm here, that is basically saying that step parents have a legal obligation to support their step child, and they don't. (that's only hypothetical because we have custody and she doesn't feel the need to pay any support because we both work and she chooses not to) I also don't think it's fair to expect a NCP to continue to pay the same as they would if they still lived there, that's ridiculous. When there's a divorce, the natural assumption is that there are now two households, which cost more. If the guidelines say he should pay that based on his original income, then he should have to pay that much. I think it's wrong for the court to allow a NCP to willfully earn less, but I don't think it's up to the new spouse to be responsible to support the first family. I think the court was wrong if they didn't use what he was capable of earning and allows him to leave behind a family with six kids and remain underemployed so he can avoid support. That's outrageous and he shouldn't get away with it, but it's not his wife's fault. It's HIM and it's the Court that you should be angry with. (btw, does his wife have kids? If she dies before him, she's probably more likely to leave her money to her own kids, not him. Then what is he going to do? )

and I also don't agree with placing a cap on how many kids can get support. they all need to eat.


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kkny

I call it like I see it. I serve these papers all the time. I see the bitterness in the divorces as they are happening when there is no step mom to complain. I hear the angry spouse asking me to serve him at work, in front of his friends, etc. I see women in short marriages, demanding spousal support and attorney fees to be paid. I read declarations of these angry women (and a few men) and it's the bitterness that drives them, not a concern for their kids.

I see your point and there are SM's that are self centered and selfish enough to wish the first family didn't exist or that they want the guy to support them and resent that he has to support his first family, but I also see the other side of it where it's a bitter ex wife, just trying to get back at a man that's found someone new to make him happy. And it's usually a younger and prettier one, which really makes the ex wife that spent 'the best years of her life' raising his kids and taking care of him, really angry. Now she's going to get even! Don't tell me that doesn't happen. You'd be lying. (f a guy has one of those women in his life that resents that he has a family before he met her, then he chooses to be with such a woman. The ex wife should be angry at him because he chose to be with that kind of woman. After all, he has a choice in who he hooks up with and he knows he has a responsibility to his family first. Any guy that allows a woman to come into his life and try to take away from his kids, is the bad guy. I mean, if a woman with kids got together with a guy that came in and wanted to be first and let her kids do without so he could have what he wants, there would be an outcry that she's a terrible mother and shouldn't have her kids. And it's something that does happen with some single mothers that feel they NEED to have a man in their life, so they put their kids' needs last. It's wrong no matter what gender parent does that. CP or NCP, doesn't really matter.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

In my exH's case, the two households are more expensive is irrelevant - there were two households before (ours and hers) and there are still two households. Now most of his income has been transferred to from the household with his children in it to her household. He is financially better off, because there is little for him to spend his money on.

He would be fine if he outlives her, even if she doesn't leave him anything. He makes enough money to rent something and still pay the pittance of child support he has to pay - and eventually, of course, all of our kids will be grown. Once he retires he will be sitting pretty, because he is socking away a big chunk of his income into retirement funds.


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Oh, I forgot to mention Oh_my

My DH's ex did the same thing, when he was involved in their custody battle, she kept complaining that she didn't want her daughter around me because I was doing 'mom' things and she is the mom. She also said that my son was a danger to her and he was threatening to kill her. (she perceived that my son was threatening her with a knife, because he was in the living room, cutting an apple with a knife to eat it and SD came into the living room and my son told her to go back to her room, so SD went back and told her mom my son threatened her with a knife) So, after she made it clear she wanted me and my kids to stay away from her daughter, she filed for child support and asked to include our combined income and wanted the court to use hers (she wasn't working). She would have been awarded over a thousand dollars a month with 50/50 custody shared if my income were used, but since it wasn't, she got $286. Ironically, she moved away three weeks later and gave up custody to DH. I guess it wasn't the windfall she hoped for. and of course, when she moved, she knew I would end up doing all 'mom' things for her daughter now, but she still left. She also has never once showed any concern that my son is going to harm her daughter, she must have gotten over that fear since she allowed her daughter to live in the same house as him. In fact, his room is right next to hers.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Why did your son tell her to go back to her room? Wouldn't mom2emall say that was rude and he should be willing to play with her?

I agree that the mother is wrong to leave her child in a house if she thinks that someone would threaten her with a knife. I am very concerned in general about the advisability of having stepchildren of different sexes in the same household, especially if they are close in age and teenagers - I realize that in your case, the SD is much younger than your kids.

In my state, the child support guidelines specifically state that one of the goals is to make sure that the child enjoys a standard of living as high as that of the parent with the higher standard of living. How can you do that without imputing income in cases where the NCP marries (or lives with) someone much wealthier? What if a NCP who worked flipping burgers married a millionaire?


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Well hopefully the NCP isn't a complete a$$hole and shares their good fortune with their children.

You'd think someone who had previously been FOTY would share his good fortune with his children, but apparently he doesn't care that his children "suffer"....

Besides haven't you said you are still under the original CO...so he is paying for 3 children and only 1 is eligible to receive CS? no wonder you don't want to go back to court.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I am sorry but no way shape or form is a dime of my money going to the ex wife.. child support or not. I work very very hard for my life and there is a reason why I make more money then either my DH or his ex. One being his ex works all of three days a week about fourish hours a day...

And, while I will always support my kids (steps being included in that) I will NEVER support his ex... she is not my problem or concern. If she can't afford things then she needs to get a better job ...go to school whatever... just like I did and am doing. I have heard her mention what I make and my money before and that is about the only time when I wanted to (but didnt) blow my lid with her. I am not going to support a grown women who can fend for herself.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

"Why did your son tell her to go back to her room? Wouldn't mom2emall say that was rude and he should be willing to play with her?"

Well, I guess some people might think he was rude, but if you consider that he was 17 and she was 7 and he's watching an R rated movie with violence and he didn't want her in the room. She was supposed to be playing in her room because we were outside on the tractors & she couldn't be out there. But, I suppose he could have turned off his movie and played candyland with her. (but that wasn't likely to happen. Like most older teens, they are not interested in 'playing' with young children... and not because they are step siblings)

and my whole point (I guess you missed it) is that BM 'voiced' those concerns but left anyways. I put quotes on 'voiced' because she may have said those things to gain custody but when she lost her case, those 'concerns' were no longer an issue for her. It should be obvious the mother never had a concern that my son would hurt her daughter, she just thought it would help her win in court, so she made up lies. Her goal (as she threatened my DH) was to get full custody (she reluctantly wanted him to have every other weekend only, I think she would have asked for him to have less or none but she knew the court won't order less than EOW without a very good reason, like abuse) and she told my DH the court was going to give her more child support than she gets for her first kid, which is over $1200. My DH is the one that filed the case when she made that threat because they had no order and she said she was going to take away his daughter if he didn't do what she says. DH filed & when BM was served, she kept telling him that he should drop his case because they were going to give her a huge child support and take away his 50/50 and give him EOW. Well, he wanted an order to at least keep the same arrangement they had (he wanted it in writing so she can't keep threatening to take his daughter) and the courts around here seem to favor 50/50 arrangements so we weren't concerned that he would lose that. and that's what happened, they kept it 50/50 and gave BM a tiny award of $286 and it wasn't enough to keep her interested in raising her daughter. either that or her new bf she just met was more important, take your pick... either way, she left her daughter and now that she may have to pay support, she's going to throw around accusations that I'm abusive to her daughter? It's just another ploy (where she's using her daughter again) to build a case so she can take DH back into court to fight for custody & get the child support she keeps saying she deserves! She has actually told him that he should be paying her, even though he has their child and she hasn't sent a penny.

and the child should enjoy the standard of living that their parents enjoy, but that doesn't mean the children's other parent gets to enjoy it too. Does that mean if he lives in a mansion, he should buy you one too? It would be nice, but not happening. Obviously, if he is capable, he should pay for lessons that he can afford, nicer clothes that he can afford, nicer vacations that he can afford. (meaning he should include his children on fancy vacations, but that doesn't mean his ex gets to go)

When my parents divorced, my dad paid his (spousal) support directly to my mom's landlord because we'd have been evicted if he had given it to her. He paid his child support directly to her. (not to mention that they didn't have an order, he paid voluntarily for years, until I turned 18, even though I left at 17) I still enjoyed a better standard of living than my mom, if I needed things my mom couldn't provide, I called my dad. He paid for dental care, he paid for clothes, and he would send me money directly so I would have things. If my dad had married a wealthy woman, that wouldn't entitle me to 'her' fortune, just because my dad got to live in her big house and she spent her money on him. If my dad had the money, then yes, his children should benefit from it. That doesn't mean my mom should have gotten to live in a nicer house or drive a newer car because he worked hard and she chose to not work or rebuild her life. That is where I think the child support guidelines are flawed. They don't take into consideration the attitudes of the parties.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

The problem is saying "and the child should enjoy the standard of living that their parents enjoy, but that doesn't mean the children's other parent gets to enjoy it too." -- what if mom can only afford to live in a shack and dad has a mansion? Some things dont have to be shared, like vacations, etc., but housing is a tough one. I realize that your mom may have been irresponsible, but there are plenty of single moms who arent. They work hard every day. So under your scenariou, Dad can buy a big house with a pool and tennis, and lure child over there, even if mom is better parent.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

"what if mom can only afford to live in a shack and dad has a mansion?"

Well...what if mom has a huge farm house that sits on 20 acres completely with horse barns, pastures, riding trails, and natural gas rights and dad can only afford to rent a duplex with the help of SM?

KKNY, are you suggesting that my SD has the right to all those amenities when she's here and that my DH should go file for a child support reduction so that we can afford those things as well so that BM can no longer "lure" her away from DH, even if he is the "better parent"?


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kkny

First of all, neither parent is the 'better parent' right off the bat. Dads & Moms are supposed to be 'equal' parents unless one is proven worse. I don't argue that moms get custody more often than dads, but that doesn't necessarily mean that moms are the better parent. It may only mean that the father didn't fight for custody. (I believe that fathers don't tend to fight for custody unless the mother is lacking, which is why most of the custodial step parents here are dealing with terrible BM's) Maybe he realizes that the children have a good mom and he's a good dad that's going to provide for them by working & paying support to the mom. If he takes a promotion and the mom can't work as much because she has small kids, then yeah, she will get more child support because his income goes up and she's sacrificing her career to raise the kids, in that situation, she deserves more support so she can maintain her standard of living. If the mom has school aged kids or teens and she could work while they are at school, but chooses not to because she doesn't want to work, but she expects him to keep her in the lifestyle she had when they were married and both of them worked, then no, he doesn't have an obligation to do that. It's all relevant to the facts of each situation. Like I said, it doesn't factor in the attitudes of the parties.

and if mom can only live in a shack and dad in a mansion, I would first look at what they lived in together. Then that would be the biggest factor in whether he should keep her in a mansion or not. If they had a nice house, she should remain in the nice house, not move to a shack. But if they lived in a shack together and he marries someone in a mansion, then I guess maybe she should look for someone that has a mansion too, if she wants that for herself. It's not his job to give her the lifestyle of his new spouse. Just like it wouldn't be right for him to decide that he no longer has to pay support because she marries a millionaire and moves to a mansion. Even if he still lived in a shack, he would still have to pay her support. Her new husband's income would not matter when it comes to him supporting his children, he would still have that obligation.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Ima, I said if, I have seen great and poor parents of every sex, race etc. If, if if. I dont assume. And mom may be working outside the home, and still not able to provide as well as Dad. There are many variables.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

well, this is all in response to theotherside thinking she should benefit because her husband married a wealthier spouse. If theotherside had married a wealthy man and her exH had to live in a modest home while she lived in luxury, should he benefit by not having to pay her any support anymore? After all, her new husband is providing a big nice house and since she is married to him, she can now buy everything the kids need or want. (that would be ridiculous and I think we've already agreed that a parent should support their children, even if the CP has more money or better situation.)

I don't see why she feels it's her 'right' to get something out of his living situation with his wife. He does have an obligation to support his kids and if he can make more money than he does, his ability should be imputed. But, I think the court has already determined that because of his age, they won't do that. While I don't think it's fair what he's done to her, it's not his wife's fault.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I think if I were to get married again (aaahhh -- I know) to someone with children, and just because I could support him in my house, etc., as much as I say I believe in keeping money seperate, if he quit his job and wasnt paying CS based on what his old job was I would tell him where the door was. Not that it is her fault, but based upon what TOS has said, her Xs wife is an enabler in my book. But as you get to be a certain age, there are less men around. Now I feel a woman without a man is like a fish without without a bicycle, but that may be the minority view.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

sure, she can show him the door and he can go rent his own place. Then he might want to lower his support even more. That would not be beneficial to her. His wife may be an enabler, but so is an ex husband that pays spousal support to an ex wife that won't get a job, not because she can't but because she doesn't want to. How long should an ex husband pay spousal support for a wife that won't work? and if it's true that he's paying support for more than the number of kids that she still has at home, there's even less sympathy for her plight. She keeps saying she has six kids but I don't recall how many are minors and still living at home. She has said some are grown and others in college. It would be a bigger issue if she had six kids that she was still supporting at home. but I don't think that's the case.

I just think it's time for her to lay blame where it belongs, on her exH for being a dirtbag and not his wife, who may be an enabler but he's the one that is shirking his responsibility.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

$286???? That IS crazy.

I am going off your word Ima and I do believe you with the situation with BM.

However, I am continually surprised with just how low child support can be. $286 is not enough child support at all. I can see in some cases where the CP would have to give custody to the NCP if they were awarded a low amount.

I can see where spousal support is needed and still relevant. Many women stay at home to raise the children of marriage. It puts them years behind everyone else in an already not too great job market. It was the couples choice while married and *both* need to own up to it. It is not that easy to just get up and get a job and suddenly deal with being a single mother.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Well nivea,

do you read all of the posts or just skim through? Why should there be ANY child support when they both had the child equal time? She wanted the court to use my income to give her over $1200 a month and as far as I'm concerned, she's lucky she got a dime. At the time, they had 50/50 custody. Each had one week on/off. BM was living at her mom's house, not paying rent, utilities, or food. (she was already getting $1200 from her husband for her older daughter and not contributing to her mom's housing or food for her & her kids) DH and I pay all our living expenses and when SD needs anything, BM tells her to ask her dad. The only reason she was awarded anything is because she chooses not to work and he has worked 21 years for the same employer and makes very good money. So, his income being higher and her not working, she got $286, even though she has the ability to earn almost the same as my husband as she was EMT certified (but quit her job as an EMT to go to school to be a nurse) and then spent almost five years going to school for a two year degree. In other words, she was using her 'student' status as a reason to not have a job and using the excuse of raising kids to take so long to finish school. (not realizing that most single parents that take that long to finish a two year degree are probably working and don't live at home with a built in babysitter) I don't buy into those excuses because I worked full time, went to school full time at night and on the one night a week that I didn't go to school, I was a den leader for my kids & my exBF's kids cub scout den. (Granted, I was living with my exBF and he took care of the kids at night) If you want to do something, you will figure it out, not expect someone else to take care of you forever.

If a couple agrees that mom will stay home and care for the children but then they divorce, then there should be a time for her to get support so she can go back to school or start working on a career. I wouldn't thrust someone into being a single parent with no help, but that doesn't mean that he needs to support her until the kids are grown. Once she knows that the marriage is over, she should start a new plan, the old one isn't going to happen. The old plan is that he is going to be there working, while she's raising the kids, married to her.. that changed to so the whole plan changed. You can't pick and choose which parts you want to keep. Spousal support should be temporary. Yet, my DH's ex has been getting some spousal support as well as child support from her husband for 12 years. They were only married one year and she claimed that she worked during the marriage.

and if you think $286 is low. I have raised my kids with NO visitation from their father's. One was ordered to pay $310 a month. The other $72 per month. My oldest did visit his dad and his dad was ordered to pay $196 a month.


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added

and I've posted before, none of them ever paid regularly. I have gotten an occasional check but usually years in between. I'm owed well over $150-175K between all three.

Here's an example of my DH's ex: They went to court on August 7. The court took the support issue under submission and sent out the ruling on August 20 and it said that 'beginning August 1, father shall pay mother $286' so BM called DH and began yelling at him that he was late, she was going to file contempt charges. He hadn't even gotten his copy from the court and she's threatening to have him jailed for not paying.

Fast forward to now. We've had SD living with us for six months. BM hasn't paid DH a penny for SD (even though we have an order for her to pay half of all medical costs) and when DH asked her why she hasn't paid her half, BM told him that he's supposed to be paying HER. She thinks that telling him to keep the $286 is the same as her paying support.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Since you asked, I am still supporting FOUR kids, not one, as someone suggested. Two of them are in college, which obviously costs me far more than it cost me to support them when they were in high school. In my state, child support continues for students until they graduate or reach 23 (or maybe 24, I don't remember exactly). That is mandatory, not something that the court has any discretion in.

I don't want HER money - I want child support to be a bigger proportion of HIS income - income which should include the $1000 or so of free rent that he gets.


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RE: Free Rent

TOS,

So since my SD's BM lives rent free in a home her father could rent out for at least $2,000 a month and we rent a duplex for $550 a month, do you think my DH should get to pay less child support because of her good fortune?


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Heck yeah oh_my! In fact, DH is taking BM to court soon to get an order for support since she won't willingly pay a penny for her child. She lives rent free with her BF. I think that should be included as income to her. She should get credit for at least half his rent. I would even argue that she 'earns' it by cleaning his house and providing other services. After all, she is a stay at home NCP. That should increase what she should have to pay him. Of course, if he starts taking off time from work to do all those things that TOS and KKNY keep saying that custodial dads should be doing for their kids, instead of relying on SM to do it, then his income would drop down and then she'd have to pay him even more. I'm liking this already. Thanks for the ideas TOS.... I think we'll call our lawyer tomorrow. After all, we are going to ask her to pay the attorney's fee too. I mean, we wouldn't even have to have an attorney if she would agree to pay something by agreement. Instead, she is forcing him to take her to court. Yeah, and when she's a day late in paying, should we call her and threaten to take her back on contempt charges???


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

oh my,

Yes, I do. Obviously the court, not you or me, would be the one to determine the fair market rent. In my state, they take the basic order computation and then adjust it by the ratio of incomes, after subtracting a base amount from the CP's income. It is a complicated computation, but the higher the CP's income, the less child support she (or he) receives. It is always greater than zero, because the NCP is always expected (rightly) to contribute to the child's support.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Instead of whining how complicated it is ... here is the link for the Mass DOR ... has the all the forms needed to file a modification with the court system ...

You live in NE only 3 states have an $8 an hour or higher minimum wage.

VT is 7.67
RI is 7.40
NH is 6.50
ME is 7.00
CT is 7.65
MA is 8.00

California and Washington are the other two states.

If you need the links to other states websites to file modification I will be glad to look them up for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mass forms for modification of CS


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh for Pete's sake. How can you complain about others picking apart someone's posts, and then complain because I said it was a complicated computation. You know full well I was not "whining" - the computation is too complicated to bother explaining in detail in a post, when oh_my undoubtedly does not care about the minute details specific to my state. If I had included the computation, you would have complained about that, too.


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Not complicated

$h!+ or get of the pot.

Stop whining about what you are not getting and go get it.... you don't even need a lawyer guidelines are guidelines ... no debate. If you don't like the agreement DON'T SIGN IT. Have the judge decide if you don't like fight it again and again till you get what you think you deserve.

Simple


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Cawfe, as Ima has said, not all parties have money for an attorney. TOS's X wife can subsidize endless rounds of attonreys. I sympathize for her. I really wonder if some of the second wifes here are left with a child, maybe then they might develope some sympathy for someone left in that situation.


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RE: attorneys

Oh yes, there is room for debate, when you are talking about imputed income especially. I can assure you that if one party has an attorney and the other party does not, the party without an attorney is at a severe disadvantage. I don't have the money for an attorney, or the time to take off from work - it would be stupid for me to spend more money on a lawyer and lost income than I would get back in child support, and that is what would happen if I kept going back to court over and over.

And my post about computation of child support was in answer to another poster's question. Am I not supposed to answer questions asked of me, now?


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::ignore::

I do like my new feature :)


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Why not?

If you think you are due/owed/deserve so much more in CS then I would say yes its worth it.... considering you have what almost 10 years more collecting CS. You don't think the extra $40,000 a year would be worth it? make up your mind. Its not like FOTY is going to hand you a check for the difference.

You said you exchange tax info every year you could file every April 15th for a modification.

You are going to almost retirement age by the time CS stops.


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I'm seeing a double standard AGAIN!!!

I may not be an ex wife of any years, but I WAS left with three kids to raise alone and even if it was partly my own fault, it still cost a lot to raise kids and I didn't get the support I should have. KKNY, you have criticized me for NOT going back to court to get them to pay. When I said it would be too time consuming and costly for me to go back to court all the time, and the fact that I knew I would probably get very little paid to me since they didn't work on the books or HAVE anything, I was criticized again. Why is it you can criticize a SM (over what I did as a BM with my own kids) but you defend TOS for the same thing? In fact, TOS has a better chance of getting paid if she gets an award. and if she's trying to get $40k, it's worth it.

and TOS, if you aren't going to take him back to court because he has a wife with enough money to pay his attorney, then don't go. But quit your griping about it here!!! WE ALL KNOW WHAT A JERK HE IS. WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU ARE LIVING AT POVERTY LEVEL, DESPITE THE FACT YOU HAVE MORE EDUCATION THAN THE REST OF US. WE ALL KNOW YOU HAVE SIX KIDS, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE 'SUPPORTING' ONLY FOUR. (and college students can work & contribute to their education too) WE ALL KNOW TOW IS AN ENABLER AND YOU BLAME HER, NOT YOUR HUSBAND, FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.... SHUT UP!!!(about the lack of child support)

You have been 'venting' about it for at least six months that I've been on this board. You don't need an attorney to go into court and get a modification. You can also go to the department of child support services.. it's free. It's a different story if you are talking about imputing income to him because from what I recall, you've tried that and the court disagreed with you. IF YOU LOST, LET IT GO! If you are not going to keep fighting, then what's the point of complaining about it here? Sympathy? You have my sympathy for the jerk that left you with six kids and doesn't see his kids or support them properly. Then you defend him and say you'd take him back so then I just think you are either stupid or so emotionally damaged that you have literally no self esteem, then I feel sorry for you again. It really is a vicious cycle and it really is getting old.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Ima, this is blog, all can write.

As much as some SMs beleive they have the right to determine what people can complain about -- they dont.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Well, don't I have the right to complain about being tired of hearing about TOS's child support woes??? WTF!!!


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and kkny

the first paragraph was for you... you didn't even respond to THAT!!!


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cawfe

Cawfe, we all have the right to read what we want. Frankly, I dont recall critizing Ima for not pursuing CS after she said there was no money there (and note she doesnt ascribe that to me, just in general). What I do think is that some people have different expectations of what a Dad should pay, and some here think that X isnt entiteld to much becuase they didnt get much, and I dont buy into that. I also think that child shouldnt bear brunt of dad not contributing.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I may have been mistaken or confused TOS with KKNY, not sure how THAT would happen?? lol But, this is a little of what you said to me about child support. I'm pretty sure I recall either TOS or KKNY telling me that I was being irresponsible or my kids were suffering because I wouldn't drag their father's back into court to "Make" them pay. I don't really have the time (or desire) to go sifting through months of posts to find them, but when some insults just stick out in the memory. Especially when I have to defend how I supported them alone without any help... But I guess it's okay if you are not a SM and you would rather have something to whine about.

*********************************************************************

IN ONE THREAD:

* Posted by kkny (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 2, 08 at 12:49

Ima, I dont think it is always, or even frequenlty, vindicativeness. I think even the potential of jail, or short jail, will incentivize many to get a job and pay the back CS. Even the threat of lost drivers license, etc., may provide incentive. So by going to court, the finanical situation may improve. It is unfortunate that some CPs dont have the resources to pursue, and some NCPs can evade, but that doesnt mean the CP shouldnt go to court. And PS now that the laws on passports are getting tougher, that is another non-jail alternative.

* Posted by imamommy (misshalk_2000@yahoo.com) on
Wed, Jan 2, 08 at 22:12

You're entitled to your opinion. I still think it's vindictive. I could have pressed to have my ex jailed but then it would have adversely affected his other four children to put their father in jail when at least he was being a parent to them. Is he a deadbeat? Yep. and he did the wrong thing by making more kids than he can take care of. I guess if he was capable of paying it, then it's an incentive that would work. But if he isn't capable of paying it, what good does it do, besides make the CP feel good to know the SOB is in jail, which is being vindictive.

* Posted by kkny (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 2, 08 at 22:14

Was he paying when he had additional child #1?, #2?

If not, and you had stepped up enforcement, he might not have had child #3 or 4.

AND IN A DIFFERENT THREAD:

* Posted by imamommy (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 19, 07 at 1:57

It isn't irresponsible to let the court make an award and if it doesn't get paid, then for me the answer was to work as hard as I could to take care of my kids. I am owed over $100,000 in back child support (I lost count because the interest is now much more than the principal and I know it will never get fully paid)

Yes, I made one bad decision after another and I've never said i was perfect. Perhaps it was because I had a mother that spent my teenage years wallowing in self pity and blaming my father for everything that I couldn't wait to get away and be grown up. I didn't have proper guidance but as I got older, I matured, was responsible for my kids and made my way in my careers. And when I was left a single parent of 3 at age 21, I could have wasted my time and energy blaming the father that isn't paying child support but I chose to make my life better without him. And twenty years later, he lives under a mountain of debt that he will never get out from under and I am happy and have children that I am proud of.

* Posted by theotherside (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 19, 07 at 8:52

Deadbeat NCP's continue to exist in large part because too few CP's (and too few governmental entities) are persistent in going after them. It is a huge societal problem and largely responsible for the high poverty level among preschoolers. It is never a waste of time or energy to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support. To do otherwise is a slap in the face to all those NCP's who do pay child support faithfully.

* Posted by imamommy (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 19, 07 at 11:45

you are entitled to the opinion "It is never a waste of time or energy to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support"

and I am entitled to my opinion that I would rather spend my time and energy working on building my life (focused on my marriage, children & career) to make it better and not blaming a deadbeat for my problems.

The award of support owed to me is not going to evaporate when my kids are grown ups. It just sits there growing interest. That's his problem, not mine. He will owe it forever.

My kids are well taken care of and have learned that if they want certain things, they have to work for it. I did that, my dad did that and my grandfather did that. It's not a new concept.

and if your ex is a deadbeat and doesn't pay, then that's one thing but if it's about making him pay extra just because you think he can, that's not the same as "to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support"

* Posted by theotherside (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 19, 07 at 19:22

Deadbeat parents are leaches on society in general. We all pay higher taxes to provide services to children whose NCP's are denying them support. Even in cases where the child does not receive governmental subsidies, the child whose NCP does not pay court-ordered child support is denied the standard of living and often the education to which he or she is entitled.

* Posted by kkny (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 19, 07 at 19:29

TOS, I agree with you. There are many government programs that are means tested, including student loans. They are meant for people who need them, not for people who dont. At my DDs school we run a benefit, so that the principal has funds to pay for uniforms, etc., for children who dont have the money to participate in sports, etc., that they qualify for. Virtually all are children of single mothers. Yes, I do my best to contribute to these efforts, so that every child has a chance, but the funds are limited. To encourage a child, oh if Dad wont pay, find a way is not fair to the community. IMHO.


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theotherside

Earlier, I browsed some old threads because I thought it was KKNY that said I was irresponsible for not dragging my kids' father's to court for CS. But, then I came across this gem from theotherside:

********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** **********************

* Posted by theotherside (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 18, 07 at 21:15

I believe it is irresponsible to not seek child support for your children - they are due that money. In my state, child support is virtually always awarded - you can not make an agreement for, say, a one time payment of 100,000 dollars in lieu of child support.

So I am supposed to be impressed because you made one bad decision after another when you were younger? And because your business hasn't failed (yet)? My profession may not be all that high paying, but I am quite certain I earn more than a social worker does. And I don't have to spend my days spouting pyschobabble.

********************************************************************** ****************************************

So, theotherside... don't you hate it when something you say, comes back to bite you?

I'm referring to:

"And I don't have to spend my days spouting pyschobabble."


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

"Its not like FOTY is going to hand you a check for the difference."

What does FOTY stand for?

ima,

Why do you think it is strange that I am supporting 4 of my six kids? As you know, two of them have graduated from college already.

I think it is funny that when I happen to agree with a stepmother (in this case oh_my) because you can't find anything to complain about in my post, you go off on a tangent...

And doing what is necessary to receive court ordered child support is very different from spending the money to hire a lawyer to seek a modification. For one thing, the child support enforcement agency will help with the former (albeit often very slowly). They will not help with the latter.


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re: tos

Although my post that you agreed with was intended to make you see how ridiculous I feel your ideas can be, I was pleasantly shocked to see you agree with me. I'll give you bonus points for consistency because apparently you don't always have to disagree with SMs.

However, just because BM's parents want to let her live rent free, my DH would never file for a reduction of the support he pays unless we had some kind of serious change of circumstance. We're not rich, but we're doing all right, we can afford the basics and a few extras, and someday maybe we'll save up to buy a big farmhouse of our own...and who knows, maybe someday BM's dad will get tired of his children's needy ways and tell them to take care of themselves, then she wouldn't have the luxury anymore.

Our state doesn't take housing arrangements into consideration anyway, unless your military and housing is included in your compensation. It's strictly combine the two incomes, look at the chart for the support amount, and figure out, based on incomes, what percentage of support should come from each parent. Then the NCP pay his percent to the CP.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I find it really funny how KKNY and TOS both use the word albeit lately. KKNY used it on my sibling rivalry thread right around the time her fangs came out and she began drawing blood! TOS just used it on here.

Sometimes I really wonder who is who on this forum. I Have always thought KKNY and TOS jump in to defend eachother too quickly...and then finedreams began posting and adding to it.....

I wonder how many log-ins a person can have?


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who is who?

I also notice that TOS and KKNY often post within minutes of eachother. Perfect...post your ideas and then post them again as a supporter a few minutes later! Is there a multipersonality cyberbully cawfe?


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re: csea

Also, the one time I called the Child Support Enforcement Agency to have them help me find out why after a year of divorce my CS had not yet started, they told me that I had to figure out ex's address first, on my own, or they could do nothing until he owed in excess of so many thousands of dollars, then they could issue a warrant for his arrest and hang up a "wanted" poster of him.

And both when I moved and got married and changed my last name, I called child support to inform them, as you're supposed to, and both times they asked me if I knew where ex lived or had a contact number for him. Both times the answer was no.

I don't know about elsewhere, but in my state CSEA is swamped, and there's not much they'll do to help.


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csea

According to the CSEA's web site in my state, they are supposed to be very helpful - I don't know if that is true.

I did see an article in the paper awhile back about some guy who was deported from another country to the U.S. because he owed something like half a million in child support.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Mom2emall,

You posted an interesting theory about the two possibly being the same person. I sometimes wonder.

Whatever the case may be, I think that KKNY should give TOS 1/2 of her money.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

late night giggles .... you'd think since they are such great pals .... she would offer to pay the attorney fees to help out another scorned woman.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

mom_of_4, Sorry, I didn't mean to take your thread on a side track.

In response to the original post, I find it silly that today, so much thought goes into what kids can or can't do. My personal opinion is that kids today are so much more 'street' mature than my generation. (meaning they know about sex & drugs & things like that) and they are more technologically advanced than us for obvious reasons, but they are also the laziest, most spoiled generation yet.

Now, I know it was a different time, but my Grandfather left home when he was 11. It was the 1920's and his mother was, well let's say she entertained sailors. He didn't have a father, but he had several step fathers in his life. When he was 11, out in the world he went, sweeping for store owners or washing dishes in restaurants to make his way in the world. I can't imagine ANY 11 year old today, even getting a job, although like you said, when I was that age, it wasn't unusual to have a babysitting job or boys that age usually mow lawns or wash cars. Not so much anymore.

And from the time my mom was nine, her parents would get her up (during the summer time) at 4am and drive out to the fields in the Central Valley of CA. They picked cotton and produce. This was in the 1950's. Yes, it was a different time as well and there were no child labor laws, or if there were, they broke them. All the children worked and the youngest child stayed home and cooked/cleaned.

When I was a child, in the 1970's, I got my first babysitting job when I was about nine. When I was thirteen, I started working in the fields. The only reason I think I got away with it, and I really don't know if it was legal, but I had two uncles that were farmers and I worked in their fields, picking & packing bell peppers. I did that every summer until I was old enough to get a 'real' job.

Today, my SD is about to turn 9. She won't get dressed until someone tells her what to wear and that it's time to get dressed. She has to be told what to do, how to do it, etc. One day, I told her 'go play outside for a while.' and she asked me 'what do you want me to do?'. I told her that there are six acres, she has a bike, a scooter, frisbee, there is a creek w/blackberries, a barn with a loft, there are tons of things to do outside. She had no idea how to 'go play'. To this day, she just wants to play video games or watch movies in her room. The funny part is that she talks about all the outdoor stuff she does at her moms house, it really is strange. Her mom also says she gets herself dressed there, she's told us she fixes food there, and it sounds like a totally different child. Strange.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

That's funny Ima because my SC don't have a clue how to "entertain" themselves. We have a tote on the back porch filled with outdoor toys hasn't been touched since Sept. SS12's bike has been in the same place he left 2 weeks ago its going to be rusted by summer. Half the island is a bird sanctuary with walking trails go explore list of excuses a mile long .... even I have homework!!! :)

I'm bored ... go twiddle your thumbs ... find something to do that isn't destructive ... what does that mean .... think if I do this will I get in trouble? if the answer is yes then don't do it.

My SD was giving me a very hard time every morning .... bus comes at 8:15 she wouldn't get out of bed til 8:10 ... I had hubby start getting her up when he leaves for work at 6:30 she would still be lounging around at 8:00am .... I went in every 10 minutes at 7:40 said I will not be in here again if you do not get up and get ready you will need to call your mom or dad for a ride to school because I will not. At 8:13 handed her the phone to call her parents and I left with SS10 and SD9 had to "walk" the 3 houses to the bus stop by herself. She missed the bus on the first stop had to run to the next bus stop 1 block away.

The next morning I put an alarm clock in her room I do not shut it off I go in and call her name and tell her to get up and shut it off. Its across the room.


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my SD's morning

lol, I gave my SD an alarm clock last year. We set it and she does get up to turn it off. She then sits on the bed until someone comes into the room and tells her to get dressed. 'what do you want me to wear?' UGHHH. (She has a morning routine, but has to be reminded constantly what to do next or she'll just sit back down on her bed.)

I finally got DH to stop putting her lunch in her backpack. It's just one baby step in pushing her to do things for herself. If she 'forgets' to put it in her bag, she goes hungry. I also started feeding her breakfast last because she drags her feet so much, and food seems to be a motivator for her. She'll get ready faster now that she might not get to eat if she takes/wastes her time. Missing the bus isn't an option for her, the bus comes at 7:35 so she has to go out there at 7:30, ready or not.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

They hate the "nagging" but won't do anything to stop it .... if I didn't have to repeat the same thing every morning maybe I would have more patience for a boobs and periods discussion at 8 am. On my bad days with her I just want to make a recording ...

When they are eating breakfast I get ready to bring them brush my hair and teeth:) by the time I am done SD is done eating ( the dog eats her breakfast more than she does)

We live in Mass ... 3 out 5 days a week she wants to wear a dress ... check the temp higher or lower than 32? higher ok go find your tights ... stands in the hallway for a half hour "looking" for them. Ends up putting on jeans. :)


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I find this so strange, children that can't get up and get dressed themselves.

My oldest daughter has been getting up on her own, getting dressed, eating breakfast, checking the calendar to see if she wants to pack or buy that day, and then making her own lunch since first grade. I do help her pick her clothes out the night before because she'll wear the same couple of outfits all the time if I don't encourage her to mix it up a little, and I check her lunch to make sure it's not just cookies and chips because she has tried to do that a couple of times...but she NEVER remembers to brush her teeth without being told...I think she's doing well enough that I can let that one slide for now.

My SD will get up and gets dressed and eats, but if her head wasn't screwed on, she'd leave it behind when she left. We're talking, "Do you got your backpack? Did you put your homework in it? Do you have your gym clothes? Got your lunch?" We'll have her pack everything up the night before and put it right next to the door, but inevitably she always leaves somthing sitting right there by the door when she leaves...but we NEVER have to remind her to brush her teeth or wash her hands. She's seriously into the cleanliness thing when it comes to her body, so that's good. Oh, and I think she probably could pack her own lunch, but DH does it for her because he knows her mom does and that's what she's used to.

My 4yo WANTS to do it all herself, even the stuff I don't want her to do, like pour milk into her cereal from a full gallon. She picks out her own clothes and dresses herself, but I have to tell her to go get dressed or she'll stay in jammies all day, but that's okay because I like to do that sometimes too:) She insists she can bathe herself, which she can, but she also thinks she can wash her own hair, which she can if you like to still have a bunch of soap in it when you're done. And she absolutely hates it when I brush her teeth for her, but I just don't think she's physically capable of doing it to my satisfaction yet.

They're all different, so you can't treat them the same. Just got to go one step at a time with each one of them.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

DD was always disorganized. She did things herself but she would constantly forget everything and never knows where everything is. That's who she is. When she was going to come home for Christmas break she managed to not hear her alarm, so she woke up at the time when she was supposed to be already in airport! So she ran outside without anything and arrived across the ocean with only her passport and cell phone, literally nothing else. When I saw her in airport my reaction was: where is your stuff? Oh I overslept and had no time so I just ran without my stuff.

While here for 2 weeks she lost her cell phone and had to buy a new one when she went back lol Then after two weeks here she went back to college and in her first phone call she said: mom I forgot X,Y,Z at home can you send it to me. Then she went to visit her dad in February for a week and forgot X,Y,Z there too.

Story of her life.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

OMG Fine, you could be talking about my SD. Her best friend and BF's mom (who is a close friend of mine) joke with she and I all the time that they make bets when SD comes over as to how many things she will leave. The have it almost to a science - for about every 2 hours she is there she leaves 1 thing! :-) Just today she was talking to me on her cell while walking to school and said "brrr, it's cold. . . . OH! I forgot my coat!!" We have to do the same checklist each day, but we have let her know that the forgetfulness she jokes about is costing her privileges as she gets older - if she can't remember her coat how can we know she'll remember not to get in a car with a friend who has been drinking? How can we know she'll remember where we said she could go and where we said she couldn't? She gets the point, and I can tell she is working on it by the little lists she makes each night for the next morning. Works for me!!


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

justnotmartha,

I don't think that forgetting your stuff is necessarily the same as forgetting rules, etc., or having bad judgment. My youngest daughter leaves stuff behind all the time, in part, or possibly almost entirely, related to her learning disability. Sometimes it is a processing problem - it takes her a while to react to sensations (like the example you gave with the coat - it takes a while to realize that she is cold). My daughter drops things and doesn't realize they are no longer in her hand. When she was younger she was undersensitive to pain - she fell and hit her head on the sidewalk once, and initially said she was fine. Quite a few seconds later she said, "no, I'm not fine," which she clearly wasn't, as she developed a sizable lump and her head was bleeding.

On the other hand, she rarely forgets rules or what I have told her to do (as long as I make sure she heard and processed it, by having her repeat it back to me). Once when I was leaving the house as she was about to look up something for school on the Internet, she said, "But I am not allowed to be on the Internet when you are not here." I am glad one of us remembered (although since all she was doing was research for school, that really was ok).


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Ima,

I assume you have tried the lets put clothing out the night before routine (after first checking weather report).

My DD is not a morning person (evidently there is some scientific evidence that teenagers are on a later internal clock). She uses the two alarm clock system. One is by her bed, and she can hit the snooze a couple of times. The other is on her dresser, set for the absolutely latest time to get up (she has to get out of bed to turn it off).


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justnomartha

once visiting her dad DD (then maybe 16, 17) went on a beach with him, then when getting back to the car she put her feet outside cleaning them so to not bring sand in. Then they drove to the store, and when X told her to go to with him to the grocery store she looked around: where are my shoes? she left her shoes by the car while cleaning her feet. lol it was too far to go back so they ended up going to the store bare feet and then buying new shoes. X couldn't get over it: how do you forget shoes?

Funny thing DD is responsible but her forgetting stuff is unbelivable.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Fine - that made me laugh as I can so totally relate!

TOS - a year or two ago I would have agreed - stuff and rules are separate things. But once she entered middle school and the "stakes" got higher being "forgetful" became a convenient excuse for forgetting the rules. "Oh, I forgot I have to get my homework done before I can check my email" (though it's been like that since she got email) and the like. We have found that we have to give a low tolerance to the forgetfulness or it is abused.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

I think these kids are all related to my X. He put his umbrella on top of car as he was getting in,and then just drove off. Thank god not his briefcase. He left credit cards at restaurants and stores. Guess who had to call to get it back??? And yet, he has always held responsible job.


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

Oh God you just reminded me - my mother set a pair of shoes on top of her car and drove off. My DH teases her constantly about it - any time he sees a pair of shoes on the road he takes a picture and emails it to her. He even designed a shoe holder/roof rack for her for Christmas. :-)


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RE: 10 year old responsibilities

ha, you guys could be talking about me (only i am 39, not 9 or 19).

I have left my purse in more restaurants that I could count, even if i could remember. I don't carry handbags because shoulder bags are more likely to remain attached to my body, but it is not foolproof especially when you sit down to eat.

I was arrested once for, basically, procrastination and forgetfullnes... I failed to renew my car registration, got a ticket for expired plates, stuck the ticket in my glove box and forgot about it didn't pay or show up for court, got a warrant issued for failure to appear...

I flew to puerto rico got there with luggage and passport but no wallet-- no cash, credit cards or atm cards luckily i was meeting a friend who could loan me money for the trip.

I keep a window to my house unlocked so to facilitate breaking in when I lock myself out (tried the hide the key outside thing but kept losing the key). This happens at least 4 or 5 times a year.

Back in the day before automated everything on a car, carried jumper cables so i could start my car when I left the lights on and the battery died. yes this happened often enough it was a necessity.

yes, have driven off with things (usually but not always the gas cap) lying on the car.

make it to the gym start changing only to find no socks or no sports bra.

yes have more than once walked off left my credit card with the cashier.

no i don't do any of this on purpose. yes i hold down a responsible job. yes i really do try to do better, but mostly trying to figure out ways to work around myself works better than trying to make myself remember things I'm just not going to remember. Automated bill paying and cars that yell at you when you leave the lights on are an absolute godsend. Unlocked window and leaving house keys with friends. No handbags and friends who ask me if I have my purse before leaving places. Keep two credit cards separate places, stash cash in my glove box so i can pay for stuff if my wallet is in my living room. Driver's license and passport keep separate places so when one gets lost i might have the other. etc.


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