Thanks, everyone! :-) This conversion just took me so much by surprise that I had to share it! It's not often that I find other gardeners agreeable to the science I speak about. I think we've all been there... perhaps when we first began looking for the ingredients that we needed... and we found so many confusing looks and stumped store clerks staring at us like we'd grown a third eye in the middle of our foreheads! "Pine bark? Why on earth would we need pine bark? And what the heck is turface?" I try not to preach, per se, but I definitely speak my mind when conversing with other growers. The science is very solid, so there's really no need to keep quiet about the realities of container growing. Every aspect we talk about can be validated. But the indignant responses are very real... some folks get supremely put out, literally angry, when I challenge old fashioned methods and misinformation! It's kind of strange how close some people cling to fallacy. What amazes me, I think, is that so few people actually question the gardening industry... but then, a lot of folks are not that serious about growing, and only want to have a few pretty posies on their porches every summer... or they just want to grow a few tomatoes or an herb or two. It does take a more serious grower, I suppose, to look deeper into what makes plants "tick". Calistoga Al, I can only imagine the giant can of worms you'd open if you blurted out the truth regarding the industry and what they offer! I'm not saying that all bagged mixes are awful or completely useless, some having their place in certain circumstances... but I can just imagine the reaction from a large garden club, if you stood up and tried to make a case for a more durable, free draining medium... or tried to explain the physics of water moving through soil in a container environment... or tried to dispel the many myths that abound! So many people have been growing a certain way for so long, and have held beliefs for so long... it would be certain chaos to expose bagged soils for what they are! :-) Mike, science and truth will only prevail if people are open and accepting of new ideas. We know the science to be logical, and we've seen the evidence up close and personal... but when we encounter the type of person that thinks there's nothing further they can learn, the type of person that closes themselves off to the new or different, getting them to listen can be quite the chore! Sometimes folks need to discover things on their own... so we keep pointing them in the direction of truth and science... and we hope they'll think about it, mull it over, and maybe give it a try for themselves. You notice that it's always those people who haven't tried new ideas that have negative things to say about them... or people who haven't quite gotten the idea right, but won't ask for help... and so, they only have negative things to say. It's not even necessary to use the new ideas... but to acknowledge that there's more than one way to do something... that the facts add up! Anyway... it's time to "make the donuts"... again! Another day, another dollar, as they say! Happy Gardening to Everyone! :-)

Thanks for the responses, Jasmar, Cascade and PoolGuyNJ. I completely agree with you about the benefits to local service and support of the local economy. I think the problem is the two pool companies I have had contact with may just be terrible. First company was the one the realtor got to come inspect pool before closing. They also gave us a heart-attack inducing ($45K) estimate to completely refurbish the pool to like new condition. When I contacted them back with questions about the estimates, never could get a response. Unfortunately, we had to call in on our home/pool warranty Friday (when the pool was opened, one skimmer and one pump will not start), and guess who the warranty assigned to work on the pool?! Inspection company! Blech. So, since we were not impressed with them after we bought the house, we solicited suggestions from friends who were pool owners and got company #2. Had them come, look at the equipment/setup to give us a reno estimate, and hired them for opening and closing. It's been four months and have not gotten the full reno estimate (got a verbal ballpark of $25K at walkthru), but got those prices for the necessaries above after two more followups. The opening and closing process has been a PITA, as the company seems very poor at communication. First came to close without an appt and did not use all the chemicals left by the seller which we asked for them to use up first and wanted to charge an extra $250 for chems I had sitting in my garage! They did waive the chem charges since it was their miscommunication, which was nice and stand-up of them. Second, when they came back to open, took three weeks to get an appt, they changed their policies from working on Saturdays, so we had to take a work day off to meet them, then the nice man they sent did not speak English and couldn't communicate what needs to be done with the pool. He could only say things did not work, but that was it. He indicated missing plug/part in the skimmer, but I don't know how that could be since his company closed it and put all parts in the bag which sat in the deck box since January. Also, starting up the hot tub only one of the pumps would work and it causes water to come up through the holes in the deck and spew all over the concrete. These little plumbed holes seem like they should be for air to go down into the spa to aerate the water, but we are having water back out of them. Again, he had no idea but could only shrug and say 'not work.' They also charge $75/hr for vacuuming but we thought it was such a swamp lets have the pros tackle it first then we can maintain it throughout the season. They sent a kid with a Leaf Eater who only started 4 days ago. I thought I was inexperienced with only four months with a pool but even I beat four days!! He worked on it with Leaf Eater for about an hour and a half then packed up and left. He brought a vacuum hose but didn't use it. We still have a ton of leaves and silt in the pool. Now what? How was that getting it cleaned to be opened up? No followup instructions were given. They also want to sell me those parts I mentioned in the first post but gave me no recs on installers/electricians - I'm on my own after they sell me the parts. That's not a great endorsement for 'buy local because they are more helpful and supportive.' When I called the day after the opening and said I wasn't sure what the opener was trying to tell me to do the next day, maybe five bags shock? or maybe he was coming back to do 5 bags shock?, they said they couldn't get him on the phone and said 'is it cloudy? yeah, probably five bags shock.' I have to think there is more to it than over-the-phone diagnosis. So our $500 package for opening and closing was less than satisfactory. This co charges $220/mo plus chemicals for weekly service in OKC. That was too rich for our blood, maybe there are other services that are more in line with what you say Jasmar. Will keep looking. (FYI, we were not thinking to fill in the pool, but maybe the separate hot tub. It was Pool Co #2 who suggested filling it with dirt and making a planter, so if there are regulations about it, they were not too concerned with them.) I know there are good local pool co's out there but I am having a difficult time finding them, even using friend's/realtor's referrals. Just so disheartened! I ended up taking a water sample to Leslie's yesterday and was pleasantly surprised by their knowledgeable and helpful staff. They offered to show me how to use the test kit, explained what all the chem levels mean, and even helped talk me through backwashing and how to run the filter. They said the tests show no chlorine in the pool, so all the organic debris is eating it up faster than I can add it, so keep cleaning the pool and add more shock and some other stuff (floc/enhancer I think) in about four hours. Told me to keep a list of all the chems that seller left for us, and every time my H20 is tested they can help me find out what I need to buy and what I already have. so far best experience with a pool co! (and I know there are not a lot of leslie's fans here, but that has just been my experience). When the pool co #1 comes next week to fix warranty problems, I will see if I can find out about plumbing for cleaners. I was back there looking at the sand filter pressure and noticed a big thing that said 'Polaris' with an on/off switch plumbed in on one of the PVC lines. Will take a photo and post if they cannot tell me what's what. Here is a link that might be useful: Miracle of Chlorine!

Well, that is a step in the right direction! It's a shame, isn't it, that we do end up pleased w/ crumbs...successful women most people would be proud of...smiling over a little thing here and there. I always try to take any nice deed as a small moral victory and not to relish in it too long, lol, as it's usually rather short-lived. I'm wondering if SD didn't have a bit of guilt or maybe, dare I think, maturity? I'm afraid the last real reading I did was before kids - guess I've got a few more years before I'm going to be able to read for more than five minutes! My boys are still so young. But, it's great that you're enjoying this book. I really wish I'd known about forums such as this and books such as the one you're reading early on in marriage. These days, I'm doing well to disengage... Dana

I always like to put my new container plants through the ringer in the winter to see how well they do with no/little protection from frost so I can know where (and if) I can plant them in the ground. If they show bad signs I move them into the patio or indoors. I've had a few 25-28 degree nights already with a lot of frost (almost looked like snow on the ground one morning) so I've had some good tests. I was pleasantly surprised how well the "cattley guava" did. Hardly any stress, no dead leaves, and this plant is supposed to be picky and tropical (I'm wondering if they sent the wrong plant :P) It seems to dislike the sun here in the summer so it'll probably always be in a container. The okinawa spinach had a few top leaves slightly damaged by frost, but now it's a large plant and can handle that pretty well (it's slightly visible in the picture above). The longevity spinach got wasted by the frost. I brought it indoors and now it's starting a new shoot from the soil near the old one so I'll leave it inside for the rest of the winter. I don't know if it was just too young, but I'll probably test it again next year when it's large. The Ylang Ylang didn't fare well either. It'll have to remain on the patio. It lost all of its leaves but it already has new branches/leaves starting on the main trunk once I moved it to the patio. It really doesn't like frost. I ordered cherry trees a few months ago and they arrived on Friday! Here they are soaking: I planted them shallow with a basin around each. The Royal Lee, I planted it near a tangelo tree (on the left) that I'm planning on removing. The tangelo's graft died 3 years ago and now it's just the rootstock grown up. Minnie Royal: They're both on Colt Rootstock: I'm going to get some mulch around them before the next freezes come in just in case.