"He said as long as I continue to let her see her (step)father, he doesn't want to be involved."

Even if he were in a position to throw his weight around, which he is not, coercion is wrong.

Remember the adage,
"The best way to judge future behavior is past behavior."

This guy has a history of coming & going.

It's only a matter of time til he goes again.

Now this is something I can definitely relate to...As much as I hate to admit it, my current marriage is my third.

My first marriage was straight out of high school. He was my high school sweetheart...but we had broken up after graduation...then just before heading off to college I found out that I was pregnant. My father regrets this now...but this was basically your run of the mill "shotgun" wedding.

We were not good for each other. Actually I would say that he was not good for ANYBODY. But nevertheless, we stayed together and had 2 children together. We separated when my youngest was 4 months old. It was the 5th time he had walked out on me, this time for a married woman...who didn't leave her husband as she had said she would do...oh well.

We divorced in 1996 and a little over 3 years later I remarried. The man I married was absolutely crazy about my children. We had been friends for years and he was a great role model to my kids even before we began dating. Sadly, my mind wasn't straight though. I loved him, but it wasn't enough...since my feelings were more geared towards "Any man who could care THIS much for my children is a keeper." That is not something to base a marriage on.

Shortly after we married, he became a stay at home Dad. He had been working (actually I was his boss...haha!) but I got a job offer that we could not turn down despite the fact that hours were going to be much longer than I was used to...He was an incredible stay at home Dad. My sons loved and respected him. All this time, my son's bio Dad had been in and out of their life, whenever it had been convenient for him. They did basically go to see their bio Dad EOW and on holidays. I worked hard to keep the relationship going between their bio Dad and my children...He may not have been a good husband to me, but he was their father...and they did want a relationship with him. This was important to all of us.

My 2nd husband was there, day in and day out for 5 years. Unfortunately, with the relationship being rocky from the start, it was not able to withstand the stress of my "high stress" job and a 10 month health ordeal with my youngest son. We separated...however to this day he is a part of their lives...Check out his myspace...My boys are the first friends on his list. My 2nd husband is in a relationship now and just had his first biological child at the end of 2008...but ask him how many children he has. He will say three.

I live hundreds of miles away from him, but when I go to visit family I will arrange for the kids to visit with him from time to time. He calls to talk to them. They email each other all the time. Their bio-dad did have some issues with this during my marriage to him but he got over them eventually when I asked him to please not see him as a threat. He was not a threat...he was a very good role model to our children...but I made certain that I stressed that everyone realizes that he IS Dad and always would be. His relationship with them was just as important if not more important.

My whole situation is rather confusing and "messed up" to some...but to us, it is just life...The father of your children obviously feels threatened...as I am sure I would feel if my children's stepmother was as involved with my kids as I am...but honestly it's something he needs to overcome. I commend you for allowing your ex who was a parental figure and great role model to your kids to still see them now. So often, people break up and then have the mind set that "that loser isn't seeing MY kids." And the only people who lose out in that situation IS the kids who loved that person...

I would ask bio Dad to not feel threatened...there is enough room in a child's heart for a million people...and they KNOW who brought them into the world...they will always know.

I think bio dad should try forming his own relationship with your daughter, but he should not interfere in stepdads. Stepdad was there for her and still loves her and I do not think that relationship should be taken away from her.

And Sylvia is right, he does not have any weight to throw around in this situation.

I agree. I think if bio dad cared for your daughter he would know that it would hurt her if she couldn't see her step-dad any more. You are the only constant one in her life and therefore you have to make the decisions for her. If anyone else involved disagrees-too bad! You know what is best for her. I know my step-dad cared about me just as much as my real dad did. And if your daughter's father comes around and agrees it is best if she can see her step-dad then that is great. There is nothing wrong with having two father figures in her life.

"I think bio dad should try forming his own relationship with your daughter, but he should not interfere in stepdads. Stepdad was there for her and still loves her and I do not think that relationship should be taken away from her.
And Sylvia is right, he does not have any weight to throw around in this situation"

Ditto, ditto, ditto!

You have no idea how nice it is to hear that I'm not crazy for a change. I have asked the opinion of family and friends close to me and they all agree. But, then I have had bio dad's mom calling me and emailing me telling me how wrong I am and how everyone who she has asked tells her she's right and there's no way her step-dad should be in her life if she is getting to know her bio dad. She has even gone so far as to email me links about family loyalty!??!
I just don't understand how they can be so selfish not to think of her. She is the sweetest little girl and she has a heart big enough for the whole world to fit inside.
I have tried explaining to him over and over how devastating it would be to her if i cut her step-dad out of her life, and how it could even negatively impact his chances of getting close to her.
They just don't get it, and I guess if they don't want to put their own issues aside to see what's best for her then they don't deserve her. I have never told bio-dad that he couldn't see her, he just never chose to see her.
Anyway, Thank you ALL for your posts and your support.

I think that since biodad has barely been a part of your daughters life he has no right to make any decisions about her! Your the parent who has raised her! It is in her best interests to have her ex stepfather around. While her biodad was off doing his own thing that man was being the daddy. That can never be taken away. Too bad if your ex is jealous....he let it happen!!

My skids bm gets jealous of me at times and resents what I do for the kids. But she is the one who walked out on them and moved out of state and has rarely seen/talked to them for such a long time. She has nobody to blame but herself.

Your daughter has a right to a relationship with her SF!
Her BF does not have a right to interfere with that.
He would not have a right even if he HAD been involved and active throughout her life.

My SS9 is not my husband's bioson. DH met his ex when SS was a few weeks old and they began dating. They were together for three years and he is the only dad SS has ever had.
If SS's BF wandered in, out of prison, or out of whatever gang he's in these days, or whatever gutter he's been for the past 9 years, there's NO WAY IN H3LL that he would get a right to say that DH shouldn't have a relationship with SS.

I say "Good for you!" to encourage DD to maintain a relationship with her SF who loves her and she loves in return.

It seems like the kids are always the ones to lose out in these types of situations. I wish that we had both sides of the story. Because it seems like you are painting him out to be this bad guy. However, your willingness to get back into a relationship with someone like that doesnt make sense. It also sounds like he had some serious health problems that he had to work out for himself. It is unfortunate for your daughter that she has lost so much time from her DAD, as a result.

My opinion on your situation is that in order for the DAD to establish a relationship with his 5 year daughter he needs to the man in her life. People are so quick to say that it is just a matter of time before he just walked out again. But how do you know. Every case is different. History does not always predict the future. Some people do change if they are willing to. Life can go either way. For every person that tells you they canÂt there is someone who will show an example of someone who did. It is apparent that he had some health issues, and I am happy that he didnÂt expose her to them. I have seen first hand the damage that behavior like his can cause. You stated that he seems to have been making some positive changes in his life. And it seems like from your post that you believe in him and those changes. So if you are seriously willing to allow him to develop a relationship with her, then he needs to be the only DAD in her life right now. So much time has been lost that they will be starting from square one. If you allow your ex boyfriend to maintain such a close relationship it will only damper what he is trying to build with his daughter. He needs to gain her trust and confidence as well as yours. This cannot be done, if you have another DAD that she can play him against. I am not saying that she canÂt ever have a relationship with your ex. I am just saying that in the beginning in order for her to develop a healthy bond with her DAD that they both need to focus on one another. Those weekends and any other bonding time should be devoted to him and their relationship. No one is saying that the ex boyfriend should not maintain a relationship with your daughter. You stated that he loves and cares for her. But if he truly does, he should be willing to allow the DAD an opportunity to bond with his daughter. Then later on, if everyone still wants to have a relationship they can.

This whole situation seems like it can get too confusing if you have too many cooks in the kitchen. You also have to take into account that this relationship will take some time to develop. So donÂt expect for immediate results, but since she is 5 there still is time. And if she asks you questions, you can tell her that your ex still loves and cares for her and the relationship that they built will always be there. However, her DAD would like to build a relationship with her also. He loves her also.

People stated that your daughter would be hurt if she couldnÂt see your ex. And I agree to a point. Your daughter is five, and I have 3 kids myself so I know how their attention span is at their age. However, kids are able to deal with things and bounce back from events better than people think they will. Your daughter will be fine. He was not the constant rock in her life, you were. You were there in the beginning and you will be there till the end. Who is to say that the ex will stay in the picture? We are all focusing on the DAD and what he will do when your ex can at any time exit the relationship with no further obligations. He is not required to spend time with your daughter or pay child support like her DAD. Everything that he does is voluntary that could change. I am not saying that he will, but for every situation there is a possibility. I donÂt know every detail of your situation, the DadÂs, or what the ex is thinking.

And I want to give you a little history of myself. My mom was married twice, than she had a long time boyfriend who has remained in my life along with my biological dad. My husband is the biological father of only one of our children. So my thoughts are not coming from a single viewed opinion.

As parents, the only thing that we can do is try to do the best for our children. We never know the outcome of "what if situations until they happen. I wish you and your family the best.

Confused ,
you are the one raising her and its your decision. Her biodad has been in and out of her life. Fine and dandee he wants a relationship with her but if your daughter has bonded to another person, regardless what title he holds or use to hold, its your daughters right to have that relationship if she wants it.
And if it offends the biofather then he is the one having the issues.
As for the biodad's mother, Tell her to STUFF IT! and to mind her own bees wax! and oh yah, ask her why her own son abondons her grand daughter when ever it suites him and leaves her out to dry! Tell her ot look after her own son and how she has raised him to be such a responsible adult man!
Keep your daughter seeing exstepdad. Its healthy and dont let anyone say otherwise!
He sounds like agood man to want to keep that bond .

I've tried to see BioDad's and Rbye's point of view but am having a really hard time of it...

Sure, a relationship with BioDad should be allowed to develop so long as BioDad appears to be sober and steady. And if BioDad STAYS sober and steady, and doesn't skip out again, sooner or later (probably not too much later), your daughter will come to value that relationship more than the one with StepDad -- just because of the biology factor. She will know who her 'real' Daddy is -- provided he sticks around long enough to foster that bond. If he doesn't, then maintaining that relationship with StepDad will be SO important for her.

In your post, you said BioDad is only willing to get involved if he can be "the only man in her life"? Is he for real?! Nothing more selfish than that! That he would want to take away the only steady man she has?

The more I thought about this, the more I thought BioDad is already laying the foundation for an excuse for the next time he skips out. He knows that you won't stop stepdads and DD's relationship...so the next time he skips out he can always say it is YOUR fault why HE isn't around for DD.

If he hasn't come to terms with his past decisions, which many alcoholics it takes a lot of time past their sober date to do so or maybe never. It's really hard to admit what they did and come to terms with it, abandoning your kid has to be pretty hard on his psyche. So with this, it is built in that THIS time it won't be his fault when he leaves.

All the MORE reason why not to stop stepdads and DD's relationship.

rbye-
I have wanted my daughter to know her father from day one. He has never wanted to be there. I think I have every right to question his motives and be careful what ties I interrupt or cut from my daughter for BioDads sake.
I know this is sort of all over the place. I've never tried to write all this down before!

You want more to the story, here it is:

BioDad and I had a fast moving relationship. Everyhing was great. I have a son from my previous marriage who was 3 at the time. We found out I was pregnant about 5 or 6 weeks after Boidad proposed to me. He came home drunk one night a couple months later and stood in my kitchen and put a knife in his chest. This bought him emergency open heart surgery to save his life. I'm not going to get into the details of that, but it was nothing short of hell. Before he left the hospital he agreed that he needed counseling and he was going to get it before he could come home. I saw him once two weeks later and he told me he was fine and that our relationship was over.
Shortly after this is when he went into a long binge of drinking and drugs and God knows what else that was off and on for 5 years or so.
I spoke to him about three more times throughout my pregnancy, and he came to the hospital the day she was born. He was so hung over he couldn't even stand up, declined the offer to sit down and hold her, and left about 5 minutes after he got there. I found out later he only came to get his mother off his back.
When my daughter was 3 months old is when I met my ex BF-aka SD-. He fell in love with my kids immediately. Long story short here- about 8 months into the relationship, my children and I moved in with him and his 3 boys. Once in a while we would have a night with just the three of us--me, exBF & DD. Everyone always loves babies and when the question would come up-- "How many children do you have?" He would proudly blurt out "We have 5" and then just smile.
Anyway, when my daughter was about 8 months old, BioDad calls me up and says he would like to meet his daughter and would I bring her over. I told him I would and I would get back to him about when by the next day. I told my BF and he thought it was great that BioDad had expressed wanting to get involved. I took my daughter to BioDad's home and we were there about 30 minutes. He looked at her a little, picked her up once and then asked me if I could loan him $400.00 for his rent and he would get it back to me in two weeks. He said he was having a hard time getting paid from his last job(working for a deck building Co. that his buddy owned.) I was furious. I didn't say much to him except ask him how he could be so low to use our daughter to get me to give him money. He went on about how he really had been turning his life around and he's been working, they've just been really slow with paying and he didn't want to be evicted. He said he really did want to start seeing his daughter and she was the reason he called me, this just came up.

Well, a little bit about me-- I am one of the world's most giving, caring people in the world. I'm also one of the most gullible--and I have the tread marks on my face to prove it. I really do believe in people and I do believe they can change if they truly want to. And when someone I care about is asking for my help, if I can do it, I will.

Guess how long it was before I heard from him after I loaned him the money..... Go ahead, Guess........
Well, if you said 2 years, you're real close. It was right around two years or so. I take that back-- he called me once about two weeks later to tell me that he needed two more weeks and he would have it to me. And then any communication we did have, all he had to say about his daughter was "tell her I'm dead. She's better off without me anyway". And, "no, I have no desire to see her."
The only other interaction he had with her was when she was 3. I had applied for some assistance and state rules were that I had to comply with the child support office and child support had to be ordered. (No, he had never paid me and kind of child support or helped out with her financially in any way and I had never tried to force it.)
We had to go to court because he had never signed her birth certificate. We went to court and he denied being her father. So, then we got to go have a DNA test. I don't know if any of you have ever been through this, but to a 3 year old- it's believable that it's a dentist appointment.
You go into a room and a lady swabs the mouths of the mother, father and child. So, yes, we all had to be there together and yes, I told her it was a dentist appointment. It took about 10 minutes and the only words spoken between us were hello.

It was October, 2007 when we found out that my daughter needed to have open heart surgery.

I don't know why I feel inclined to fill you in on this, but here are the details on that. I'm not the perfect mother, but I do feel that I'm pretty good- my children have what they need, get enough of what they want, they are happy(inspite all of our ups an downs), and are generally healthy-- my daughter had never been so sick she had to go to the doctor before, and she was in for a well child checkup- she had just turned 4. The doctor heard a heart murmer and said it was probably nothing but it was the second time he heard it and sent us to a pediatric cardiologist for an echocardiogram. They found a hole in her heart- It's called Atrial Septal Defect. So, we began preparing for open heart surgery.

Anyway, shortly after BioDad found out, he called and told me that he wanted to be there for her surgery. Well, this is a man she saw one time when she was 8 months old.
I want to input that I have never told him at any point that he couldn't see her.

So, I responded by telling him that I didn't have any objection as long as he took the time to get to know her before the surgery. I didn't want him showing up and her having to deal with who the strange man was when she was already going to be going through so much. He agreed and we set up a meeting.
She had been asking questions here and there for maybe 6 months about who her dad was and why he never came to see her. I had never known what to tell her, so I decided the closest thing to the truth was that he was very sick and wouldn't be able to come around until he was better.
When BioDad expressed wanting to be in her life, I sat her down over ice cream and told her that he was not sick anymore and asked her if she would like to meet him. She said yes. So, I set up a time for him to meet us at my parents house (I wanted her to be in comfortable surroundings without other distractions). He met us there and stayed for maybe an hour. She saw him about 5 times before her surgery came up in March. You should know that I let it be up to him and her every time. The reason they didn't see eachother more was his choice. They seemed to hit it off better than I had expected, and I was glad he had decided to start this connection, whatever the reason.
BioDad told her that he had had open heart surgery and thought this would help them bond and help her with her upcoming surgery. She asked him if he would come to her surgery and he told her he would.
He told us he would come up to the hospital after work, he had recently started a new job and couldn't miss work. I told him that was fine and I would let her know if she asked before he got there. This was within a few days of her surgery.
The day of her surgery came and he didn't show. He called the next day to say he was sorry, but if he made the trip up there (30miles away) then he would have to get new tires sooner than he wanted to.
I really don't know why he didn't show up. But, that's what he said.
He never came to see her after she got home and a couple months later he went to jail.

At this point my relationship with SD had been going through some tough times. I don't think there are any details about that I need to share, except that we had been having a rough year and it really took a toll on our relationship. We still care for eachother and to this day are still friends, we just made a mutual decision that we weren't compatable anymore and intimately we had drifted beyond recovery from eachother.
So, I moved out with my kids. BioDad was in jail and we had been communicating through his mom for a short time. When I moved out he started writing and I wrote back and he expressed to me that he had gone through a dramatic change since he had been incarcerated. He said he had taken anger management classes and he had accepted God into his heart and wanted to know if I would be willing to give us another shot when he was done serving his time.
He said he wanted to be a family and he believed that we were meant to be together and ..........................
and more.
He was released on the bracelet for the remainder of his time to be served.
I don't know if I mentioned that he has another daughter that he has always been involved with to some extent. She is 3 years older than my daughter. Her mother and I get along well enough and the girls have gotten to know eachother pretty well over about the last year. Her mother lets her spend the night a couple times a month with us.
So, once BioDad got home, on the weekends, I would pick up his other daughter and bring the kids to his house and we would make dinner and play games with the girls and all that good stuff.
I don't know if you are interested in this part, but it was very hard for him to handle all of this. And, I understand it's an adjustment.
At the same time of all of this, we were trying to build a relationship together. I would go some days while the kids were in school.
I know--- why would I want to try again after all he's put me through? Well, because I am one of those people that believes in people and I believed in him. I thought he was on the right path and with a little more time and work, he would be the man he wanted to be. I felt he was sincere. I thought he was being true in what he was saying.
We carried on for about 6-8 weeks as I said above. Throughout this whole time my daughter had expressed how much she missed her SD and really wanted to go see him. At that point, I didn't really know what to do, so I would tell her that it wasn't a good time, or that I couldn't take her that day, or whatever I could come up with without hurting her feelings. I wanted to let her see him, but I didn't want to upset her BioDad. I ran out of excuses and then thought-- why can't she see him?

I called BioDad one evening to talk to him about it. I got about two sentences out and he flipped out on me and started calling me names and yelling at me. I tried to talk to him, but he would just yell at me that I was stupid and that SD has no right to see her and she just has to get over it. He said there was no reason for her to see SD ever again and that was that. He said there was nothing to discuss.

The way he flipped out on me was pretty much the sign that he probably hadn't changed as much as he claimed to. The fact that he refused to even TALK to me about it, made me second guess him. Then, when he said I was psycho for even thinking it was ok and that he's done with me, I pretty much figured I had made the right decision. He hasn't spoke to me since. This was a week ago. And the day before this came up he was telling me how much he loves me and wants to be with us and be a family.......

"The more I thought about this, the more I thought BioDad is already laying the foundation for an excuse for the next time he skips out. He knows that you won't stop stepdads and DD's relationship...so the next time he skips out he can always say it is YOUR fault why HE isn't around for DD."

Very insightful -- And IMO, right on target.

Now see what YOU did?
(That was facetious)

A child shouldn't be forced to snub any adult they love just because another adult has jelaousy issues. Bottom line. In biodad's case he certainly has no right to waltz in and dictate who the poor kid is allowed to love. He obviously is selfish and does not have her best interest in mind.

I also agree with Nivea on the easy out clause. He's setting the relationship up for failure before it even starts by putting stipulations on it!

As for what rbye said...take it from a family dealing with a clinicaly depressed addicted bio mother. Just becuase they SAY they are better does not mean they ARE better and even if dad really is OK right now there is a very good chance he could back slide. It has happened with the girls mom more times than I can count and everytime it killed them. Don't let this man cut existing ties because chances are he won't keep his.

"He looked at her a little, picked her up once and then asked me if I could loan him $400.00"

Well, there ya go.

Character is character, & this is his.

I me my own self would keep that child away from him every chance I got.

She's too young & too vulnerable, what with the "daddy" connection/confusion, to have her exposed to this manipulator.

Doodle!

good to see you!

Being a parent isn't done at your convenience, contrary to what this father seems to think. It's also not done to make you feel good about yourself. It's a sacrifice of your wants and needs to do what is best for your child from the moment they are born on. This father seems to think his daughter should give up who she loves to make him feel good about himself. That is not how a parent behaves . . . it's more like how a child behaves.

I can't see things the same as rbye. Why make it hard for your child now to make it easy on her father? HE put himself in this situation, it should be his responsibility to fight his way out of it, making every sacrifice possible to do right by his child. The child should not sacrifice a thing - she did not ask for her father to be this way. She lost having her father with her from birth because he couldn't deal with it; why should she lose the only father she's really had because he thinks he might want to play dad now?

I think it would be OK for DD to see her father. but it is not OK for her father to tell you or DD who else she could see, she could see whoever she wants: stepdad or any other person. not his business.

what i do not understand is why would you want to be together with him? he sounds like a bad bad news. why on earth you want a relationship with him is beyond me.

I just wanted to clear up a few things regarding my post. I never said that she should take the exboyfriend out of her daughter's life completely. I stated that in the begining while the dad is trying develop a relationship with his daughter that it would be best if he was the only dad in the picture. Even though the dad is made out to be this horrible person. The mom must have saw something good in him in order for her try to enter into another relationship. So I am taking this into consideration when I form my own opinion. I agree that his actions did put him into this position, but it seems like he has changed or the mom wouldn't have brought their daughter around him. We don't know why the dad feels the way that he does. As a result, I am trying not to make assumptions about his feelings. I don't know if he is acting in a selfish manner or if he wants to feel good about himself. I am hoping that his actions are coming from a good place, but only he knows that. It is at times like these when it would be nice to have a crystal ball. Then you would be able to know the answers to all the "what if's". I just hope that the mom and her daughter can get past this ordeal. Life is too short. And no matter what decison the mom makes her daughter will always have her.