I wouldnt be approaching this with BM. I would be going to court pronto. Where I live there is a two heartbeats per room law. You cant just stack kid on top of kid into rooms. And, I am sorry but you may not be able to tell mom who she can be married to but DH most certainly can tell mom via court that there is no way shape or form that he wants a man that abused his daughter living in the same house with her. And rearranging your schedule to not allow the kids to be alone with stepdad for more than two hours is not a solution... and more so a lot can happen in two hours. And what the "h" is this man following her into the bathroom for? That is entirely inappropriate!! This is a lot more than after school activities or respecting moms choice of the man she married.

I went back and looked up your old post because I couldnt really remember it. But, I have a question for you... did dad go to court about what happened? Has he even considered it? What is dad doing to make sure his daughter is being protected other than a phone call to the social worker? I am not trying be negative about your DH or anything... I am just honestly suprised that we arent seeing a post about your wars in the court room... instead we are getting a post about how to approach dad about sd coming to live with you... I mean I am really really glad that you are concerned about sd and that you seem to care a great deal but... I am just confused as to why you are trying to talk to DH about it ... instead of DH already taking action. If if were my DH it would have took every ounce of strength I had plus probably the brute force of my brothers and father just to keep DH from physically harming stepdad much less allowing sd to continue to live in that situation.

Like I said I am not trying to bash you or DH or anything I am just really confused.

Not taken as an attack at all, they are valid questions.

For the most part DH is sincerely afraid of BM. In the past she did everything she could to make his life hell, and lord knows why.. he is the only dad actively paying child support. It was not until this past year in 2008 when she finally agreed to let SD come and stay with us since we live out of state from her full time residence. We have fought litigation tooth and nail in the past when BM tried to get SD's last name changed to BM's maiden name, and when she accused DH of harassment when he finally got fed up with her crap and put up a website detailing all of the crap she has done to us - only to have BM's lawyer drop it when he found out some of the crap she's pulled.

In a way I think he sees it as easier and a lot less stress on us to go with the flow were BM is concerned. I personally think that our home life is a lot more stable and safe for her than with BM and DH agrees but really we are not even sure where to start when it comes to getting SD to live with us. Since this case spans between Minnesota where SD lives and Illinois where we live, it is an interstate case and we havent been able to find a local lawyer that will work with us and havent been able to find a lawyer in MN that was worth the cost to us (meaning that the only ones we've had so far have been really bad). Not to mention we currently have a very tight budget and while this is something that does deserve the financial backing we are struggling now to pay down debt as it is. Additionally, there is the issue of how SD would take this all. Living with BM full time she had to live through years of BM bad mouthing DH only to find out recently that he isnt the bad guy mom says he is.

I know these may seem like sorry excuses, but to us they are very real. We do not want to bury ourselves in debt and lose the hard earned trust and relationship that we have created with SD over this.

I really just want her to be safe and happy. If she can have that with BM then great, but right now it doesnt seem that way :(

I have to say I never heard of the two heartbeat rule. My high school boyfriend was from a struglling family, all 3 boys shared a room, till they went off to college. The entire family was the nicest people you could ever meet.

But back to the SF -- the two hour rule is ridiculous. Does SD have someone local she can talk to -- maybe a guidance counselor. Maybe school has a social worker assigned. I can appreciate you are on a budget, and not close physically, but if SD can communicate some with GC, etc., it may help her navigate this situation.

There must definitely be a City Ordinance that dictates the maximum amount of people that can occupy a home. I would check into that PRONTO.

Your posts are disturbing on many levels as far as I'm concerned MWM.

mom_of_4 said: "I am just confused as to why you are trying to talk to DH about it ... instead of DH already taking action."
I'm confused about that too. Why are YOU the one that is considering taking action?
You replied "For the most part DH is sincerely afraid of BM"
"In a way I think he sees it as easier and a lot less stress on us to go with the flow were BM is concerned"

Uhm, hello, it's not about BM, it's about his daughter! Your DH sounds like he's got his priorities wrong and I can't believe that he would put his own needs in front of his kids'. So what BM is a pain in the *ss?? Deal with it, for the sake of that girls safety. If he needs you to tell him that, I would be seriously wondering what's going on here. How is he 'afraid' of her; she's in another state, what is she going to do?
And even if your DH was 'in danger', wouldn't he rather be beaten up himself (and have all the necessary evidence straight away as a bonus) than possibly let his little girl get it????????
I know what I would choose..

"We reported this to her mother who ended up kicking the man out and social services was called to investigate. We were given the social workers number and called and talked to them just to make sure everything was ok at home."
Lets face it; if social services were involved previously and it was established that BF was violent; than you have a pretty strong case to take this to court.
So what was exactly established previously wih the social worker? And is DH back on the phone with these people??

You say that you have battled in court with BM, but do you realise that both times you were fighting to defend yourselves?? Not that poor girl. Think about that, because I don't think you've put up a fight for this girl at all so far.

And what is the deal with the website; sounds to me like your DH is having a lot of feelings (of anger) towards BM and went out of his way to attack her (via this website I mean). So he did go out of his way for himself, his own emotions and his own personal battle with BM. No best interest of the kids to be found anywhere.

You seriously need a reality check, I'm sorry..

In our area it does exist (the two heartbeats to a room thing)... unless someone calls attention to it though it is not like anyone does house to house inspections to make sure it is enforced.

I can understand financial difficulties preventing getting a lawyer... or at least a good lawyer which is what you need to take custody from a mother (especially in my neck of the woods)

But, if you can fight litigation over a name change and over a website... fighting over protecting the girls safety and well being should be a must. Perhaps I just see things differently but I would sell my home my car... my everything I had to make sure that my daughter was not exposed to an abusive man that follows her into the bathroom (Im sorry but that is just disturbing to me in so many different ways)

I think you should definately talk to DH .. but I think it should be a hard talk of stepping up to the plate a whole lot more. I know it is stressful, painful, financially draining, and a whole legion of other things to fight a court battle but if she is really living with a man who was abusive to the point of strangling and following her into bathrooms and what not... then there is no question as to what must be done.

And yes, there is always a possibility that sd might not be a happy camper about it all... but children are children for a reason. They have no idea what is in their best interest sometimes and part of being a parent is making hard calls no matter what the child might think or want. Sometimes you just have to let them hate you for a while in order to do what you know must be done.

maybe it's time to contact child protective services so they can check out the home situation and the yelling stepfather who follows his stepdaughter into the bathroom.
YUCK

We thought it would be compelling in DH's case because BM lived in a 2 bedroom house with her mother and shared one room with both of her girls (ages 7 & 10) and had her out of town boyfriend sleep over in the same room with her daughters. We found SD posing her Barbie dolls in sex positions 'like mommy' and talk about mommy kissing & stuff with her boyfriend when she thought SD was asleep. DH offered to help BM pay for an apartment so she (BM) would have her own room where SD wouldn't be subjected to that but BM refused. She was living with her mom rent free and didn't want to pay anything. So, DH asked for physical custody because he could provide SD with her own room in our house. The court stated that BM could not be penalized because she could not afford better housing and the allegations of her boyfriend staying over could not be proven, she wasn't even dating him anymore by then. The court kept the previous arrangement of 50/50 every other week schedule.

Of course, three weeks later, she met a new man and moved 3 hours away and just handed over custody of SD to us. That's when things went from bad to worse. SD wanted to go with her mom or didn't understand why her mom left her. She was a wreck and it's been an uphill battle with her ever since. Especially since her mom feeds her a bunch of lies.. that we stole her... that we won't let her go live over there... that we want to cut her off completely from her mom. Anyone that has followed my posts knows that for the past two months, DH has basically had to force her to come get her daughter and for over a year, my biggest gripe is that she won't call or answer her phone.. she doesn't come to school stuff, sports or anything to do with SD's life here. She didn't even celebrate her daughter's birthday with her last year... she promised SD to celebrate on her weekend and then went out to a party with her BF, leaving SD with BF's parents to babysit. Then, told SD that she didn't get to celebrate her birthday because WE didn't invite her to the party at our house.

My point is: The behavioral problems that a BM can create with telling a child things like this are immense. If your SD's BM is convinced now that you are trying to take her child away... she will forever convince (or try to) your SD that you are responsible for taking her away and she will be the victim with SD's loyal sympathy. Be very careful about what you wish for, it doesn't always end up the way you imagine.

My advice to you is to document what you can. Contact the authorities and let them decide if an investigation is necessary. Be supportive of your SD and be a soft place for her to fall when she needs it and it never hurts to have your DH offer to keep SD if BM gets overwhelmed. Keep documenting and seek the advice of a counselor or neutral third party that isn't going to push you to jump in with guns drawn, but will advise you how to handle the situation. What one person is appalled at, another person doesn't think it's so bad. If you go on a witch hunt, you may end up looking like you are just out to get BM because you don't agree with her lifestyle. I agree, it's not a good role model for her kids.. she sounds like she has some problems but the question arises... Is it to a level that constitutes a change in custody? Then the custody of her other kids may be placed in question. If it's so bad for your SD, her other kids may be impacted. This will affect more than just your SD. Think long and hard at all possible consequences and then take action as necessary. The health & safety of the children is the primary concern.. not necessarily the morals of the mother.

I think you should go for full custody for SD. No ifs ends or butts.
How old is your SD?
And i honestly feel bad for the rest of the kids, for having a SF like this.
Her dad lives in the same house???? How does he handle her new hubby being like this?
I think you can win this in court. You have enough evidence to pull Sd out of there. Plus BM is preggo with 5th.....mmm....
I know it would probably cost alot but heck...go for it. Its safety we are talking about.
If SD is over 12 she should be able to decide on her own to leave her motehr and there is really nothing she can do.

unless dad is as bad as mom, why doesn't dad have cutstody? dad and SM complain a lot about mom and SF and rooms and how many kids and yet nothign gets done and kid is possibly in danger. so why are kids wiht mom, not dad?

Ima, this is why I recommend SD talk to Guidance Counselor at School, see if they refer to social worker. I think writeups by other than steps will be regarded as less likely to be biased. In addition to these people helping SD deal with issues.

Mom has the kids because the courts 99.99 of the time give them to the mother. WHy? This was explained to me by a lawyer just last month. He said, that in a regular social setting between a man and woman studies show that its the mother who takes care of the children. And not the father. the father doesn't engage with his kids as much as the mother. So when a couple divorces, the assumption stays the same. He said, since they divorce, why should that change. And this is why the court system always grants the mother full custody.
You would have to prove the mother inadequate to have custody from the beginning or when the situation changes and you have proof that mom has headed down the wrong road and is endangering her kids. But you have to prove it!
So....westmommy, if there is tangible proof that biomom and new SF is violent ...a police record of the incident of her throwin ghim out and having a police report and also proof that he now resides back with BM and the kids give a confession....you can go to court and get custody.

Thank you for your advise.

There are a lot of issues at play here that tangle with each other. The main one being BM's history with DH and why he is so afraid of her. That aside, SD is almost 7 years old. Up until this last summer we had no idea that there were any problems in BM's home, or that SD has having issues with her step dad.

Anyhow, I did talk with DH about this last night. I told him that 1. I am not trying to push him into action. I can not force him to care enough to do something and stand up to his ex. 2. I am not trying to be some vigilante who is out to get his ex. 3. All I want is for SD to be safe, happy and have a place where she can feel comfortable in her own skin.

When it comes to his daughter he is an introvert, or at least he rarely tells me what he is thinking or what is happening between him and SD. This morning, he woke up and told me that he doesn't feel that SD's best interests are being looked after right now and that he feels she would be better with us. - Ok. I already came to this conclusion but at least he made this decision on his own. He also told me that this is not a subject that he feels comfortable talking with BM about via email or the phone, he wants to talk to her face to face. I can respect that.

While we were talking about it. I told him, you know it could even be that BM wants us to take SD but can't bring herself to admit it openly and with just a little pushing she will give in. I know in the past she has mentioned that she is afraid that we are going to use all of her family issues against her to take SD away, and we have tried repeatedly to tell her we do not want to "take" SD away, we just want her safe no matter where that is. This is now going to contradict the wanting to "take" her away part. And sure it will open up the can of worms again, but we will see.

Counseling in general is a good idea for SD. Also having a 3rd party's point of view on what is best for her is something that we need to look into. Perhaps Minnesota has a child advocate program like Illinois does.

Thanks again!