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w_fournier

Help on very small kitchen layout

w_fournier
9 years ago

my wife and I would like to redo our kitchen and I am trying to come up with a better layout that will give us a more functional space. We line in a small cape (about 1000 sq ft), the kitchen has been an eat in as there is not really a dining room (2 bed rooms kitchen and small living room on the first floor). Kitchen is 10' 5" by 11' 6" making this a difficult proposition. I've made a mock up of the existing kitchen and one possible alternate layout using a island rather than a kitchen table.

There are two possible ways to expand the space, one is to remove wall A which separates the kitchen from the living room. This is something we think we would like to do in the future, but the span is about 13' and the cost for that will likely be more than we can afford in the short term. The other option I am considering is pushing out wall D between the kitchen and the garage out about 4 feet from the inside edge of the door to the outside wall. The remainder of the exterior wall would remain in place. This would possibly allow a door to be added to provide access to the back yard from the house rather than having to go through the garage which is something we would like, but add yet another door to the kitchen.

This post was edited by wfournier on Wed, Dec 3, 14 at 18:23

Comments (15)

  • w_fournier
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Possible layout with minimal modification, but it seems cramped to me.

  • w_fournier
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The last option I mentioned by pushing the wall out into the garage and adding a door (I threw this together quickly so take it with a grain of salt).

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    how much space does each block represent?

    if you go with #1 I think the round table takes up too much space.

    I'd say right off that the 2nd one is a no go.

    on #3 - that'd be fairly good but I wouldn't put in the wall blocking the garage doorway off. Takes up too much space and blocks in the room again...

    unless there's a lot of traffic in/out the garage door, I'd put the table against the far left wall.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    Option 2 only gives you 30" between appliance wall and island - uncomfortable for one person, not possible for 2 people to be there.

    Have you considered replacing the round table with a rectangular one? Might give a bit more 'feel' of space, more streamlined. Perhaps using a bench on the wall side so the table can be pressed up against it - pulled out only when needed.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    9 years ago

    Could you post a sketch with all of the areas that are adjacent to the kitchen? If you choose the last option, can the short wall (with the microwave?) be safely removed, or is it load-bearing?

    My thoughts, without seeing the whole garage: Go with the option to push into the garage. Leave the sink at the window, but put the stove in the lower left corner. Put the fridge next to the entry from the 'rest of the house.' The most efficient meal prep process is fridge-->sink-->stove. (I didn't practice what I'm preaching, in my own kitchen, but that's another old house story.)

    In the location I've suggested, the fridge will be accessible to anyone coming in for a cold drink or snack, but out of the main meal prep/cooking area. The microwave could be located beside the fridge, as many items go directly from fridge to microwave. The DW would have to go between the sink and stove, putting it in your main prep space, but it's a small kitchen, and I don't have a problem with my DW in that position.

    I would then put the door to the garage on the left wall, and a door to the back yard in the bottom wall of the garage. I'm trying to relate your potential plan to the one in my home. To access my back yard, I have a door from the kit/dining, to a mudroom, then the back door. You'd have about the same number of steps, and your garage could double as a mudroom area.

    I'm guilty of offering advice beyond the options listed, so feel free to ignore. Also, although the Kitchen Forum seems intimidating at first, the pro's there have experience with all sizes of kitchens--you can find excellent free advice. And if you haven't considered the following options, you can find lots of helpful info:

    Hood vented to outside
    All drawers in base cabinets
    Trash pull-out

    I hadn't considered the last two, before I found the Kitchen Forum, but they've made my kitchen much more functional.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    "The microwave could be located beside the fridge, as many items go directly from fridge to microwave. " -mama goose

    I read that in a Houzz thread a few years back and it was a palm- to -forehead smack for me. Everything I put in the micro comes out of the fridge or freezer. So far, I've yet to live in a house with enough space beside the fridge to hold a microwave on a shelf with landing space for things taken out of either the fridge or microwave below. Maybe one day....

    Another piece of advice was to have the pantry near the fridge/freezer instead of the opposite end of the kitchen. Reason being to be able to gather all one's food stuff's from the same area instead of walking all over your kitchen to get all the ingredients to make a meal. I haven't had that configuration in any of the kitchens I've lived in either.

    If you want to expand your kitchen it's worth your while to do as much research as you can.

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    I agree with mama g on a number of things - placement of fridge out of cooking area and that having dw in prep area hasn't bothered me. there is no one here to unload/load dw but me, no one to cook but me. I'm often in my own 'way' anyway... lol! also having the mw next to fridge - and hopefully on a shelf off the counter since there is so little counter space.
    I'm sure I agree with more of what she posted but by now I just don't remember what the other things are!

    and on kitchens - where while most kitchens there seem to be huge and expensive remodels, they aren't all... AND you get the best of the designers to see it.

    You will need a better LO to post - one with measurements on it. I do think many skip over a LO post w/o them. There is a sticky at the top of p1 that steps one thru making and posting a LO I think. They will usually also want the surrounding rooms included. They'll want to know where all of those doorways go... and they need to know what size of fridge, stove and sink you plan to put in the space.

  • w_fournier
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the input, I'm starting to think that as much as I want to do this soon it may be better to wait until we can do more at once.

    The wall between the house and the garage is a gable end former exterior wall of the house so yes it is load bearing. The garage extends further to the back of the house than the kitchen.

    Here is an earlier mockup I did that gives you a little bit of an idea about the layout of the house beyond the kitchen. I this drawing wall A has been removed to open up the space between the kitchen and the living room. There is a little bit of hallway in that space too so the gain in open space is more than the sum of the two rooms. I am coming back to thinking that this is probably the best thing to do with the space here to allow more flexibility. It will require consulting with an engineer to see what our options for support are, out ceilings are only 7' 6" so we don't have a lot of space for big beams.

    One other detail as far as layout, behind wall B is the bathroom.

  • User
    9 years ago

    Go to your original plan. If you are wanting something that is quick and dirty right now, this is what I suggest might work.

    recess the refrigerator into the doorway that is from the garage. Move the garage door to the other end of the same wall, at a 90 degree to the basement door. Take the table out. For now, put very shallow cabinets along that wall between the basement door and the doorway to "rest of house" which I'm assuming means it goes to the living room or a hallway?

    Then you can put an island that can be used for prep and for eating. You might even find a pot rack with a light included in it, to hang over the island. I saw one like that at Lowes the other day, but there are other designs available.

    I'm wondering if the fridge has the door opening the way you show it, or if that is just the software giving you only that option. If it is a single door fridge, it probably will fit in the doorway after you remove the door framing etc, and then can just sheetrock over it. If your garage is unheated, box in your fridge or give it some sort of weather protection from freezing. I always think of a cape as being in cold country but not always the case.

    Anyway, with this plan you'd have a bit more space for another cab in the corner there where the fridge was.

    If wall mounted cabs should be used from floor to ceiling (Or however high you like) you can find them at IKEA. I cannot judge how deep the space is that you have along the present table wall, but it should be good. Besides, they easily hack IKEA wall cabs by removing a couple inches from the back side. Then stack as high as you want, or leave a gap for a "buffet" counter top out of a single long wooden board (10"- 12" would work)and hang more of the same cabs above, some with doors, some without. Some glass, some solid. You'd have a great pantry I should think. Plus, bring one power outlet through the wall from living room and you could put your coffee pot or toaster there..

    Also, if you are planning to get a new stove, think about a smaller 24 inch wide range, and put a cab/countertop to the left of it. My new range is 24 inches. Countertops either side of it will be stainless and I can set hot pots on it safely.

    Glad you stopped in. We love new people moving into the hood, so we can play with different houses! Welcome!

  • kirkhall
    9 years ago

    Take your 18:22 post image, and "move" the door. I know you said the wall used to be an exterior wall, but you can put doorways into an exterior wall without a LOT of expensive structural work. You can keep a middle wall segment, for example.

    Then, you can put some pantry cabinets across from where you've drawn the fridge and you've not wasted all that space just as a Hall.

    Then, rearrange all your appliances to where they seem to actually fit.

    Or, consider if you put your table (built in) in the lower left corner (where you have the fridge, and where you'll open into garage), and have more "kitchen depth" so the counters aren't so close together.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    {{gwi:2137684}}From Kitchen plans

  • sena01
    9 years ago

    I think L shape is much better than the peninsula one. As someone mentioned before I'd consider moving fridge, DW and sink to wall B if they can fit there. Maybe a 24 fridge, 18 DW, 24 sink etc. If not, then I'd keep your present layout, but add a small cab next to the range, and where you have the table, consider a wall mount table and for MW (+ storage) have a shallow tall cab. Even if you open the LR wall I think you can keep the wall mount table if you leave a half wall there.

    Is there a landing before the basement stairs? Maybe moving the basement door to LR will make things easier.

  • phoggie
    9 years ago

    I have not taken much time to look at this.....but for the sake of cost...using the first sketch, could you bring a peninsula out from the wall into the room? Also, I would put a microwave above your range to free up some counter-space. put a set of cabinets next to the range. In a small kitchen, I would never give up wall cabinets...they are just too much needed storage. You have so many door openings to work around. My kitchen is not much larger than yours and it works great. If you care to look, you can search "phoggie's" house or kitchen on this small house site.

  • User
    9 years ago

    I noticed that in one of the designs above, the range (it seemed to be a gas range) was flush against the corner wall. If I am not mistaken, there must be a cabinet of some dimension to keep the flames away from the side walls.

    II'm not understanding the last wide drawing above (not the small plan).....it looks like a long hall to nowhere, and if that is so, why not make it a pantry or make it the spot for microwave, coffee pot, and then take out that U part on the end which is a peninsula, and put back your round table or maybe one of those HIGH tables (42 inches I think?) Located between the sofa and the L-shape of the kitchen, it would tend to screen the view of any messiness related to meal prep etc, but without the confining effect of walls. Leave the range where you have it now, but add the base cabinet to its left. I still like the idea of sinking your fridge into the garage doorway in a "box" that is insulated nicely. As a doorway, it really makes the traffic pattern mess up your working space where it is now.

    Even if you don't bump out the fridge, close off that doorway from the garage, but move it as far toward the basement steps as possible--to correct your kitchen flow problem..

    But also, to gain storage, add a small pantry either side of the fridge, and above it, which can be as deep as the fridge cabinet (doors stick out further). You'd need something like 36 inches plus the width of the fridge along that wall. Do you think you have that much to work with? say 6 1/2 feet .

    What I'm thinking is that the removal of the wall between living room and kitchen/eating area would be the most efficient thing to do NOW. You'd change out the nice round table with a more current hip high table, open up the kitchen to the living area separated by this stylish style change. You add the cab beside the range. Add the two tall cabs either side of your fridge, close off the door from the garage, wait to see if you need a new door to garage, or decide can do without one.

    I would not put another traffic problem to this very divided little space. So don't turn that nice window into a very bad thing according to feng shui, by dividing the heart of the home.....

    Excuse me if I seem strange, but it just hit me all of a sudden in a moment of clear vision, what appears to resolve the path to true happiness with your kitchen. Since I had the "vision" (some say EURIKA I HAVE FOUND IT is another term) I better go back and review the facts we've discovered, the objective of the owner.....so yeah. I truly LIKE the plan I present, but will have to compare to the facts or limitations such as money available etc........

    grumble......but you know, it is a sweet thing if it works. It lets the party join the cook, and vice versa Socially, that's a home run for friendly gatherings.

    You have an interesting kitchen layout. Neat challenge.

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    yes, that stove is in pic at 22:12 and it isn't a good idea. Probably wouldn't pass code.

    I think the hallway must go somewhere - like to the bedrooms/bath. At first I thought the same - like it was just space floating out there...