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My Kitchen Personified In This Design

User
12 years ago

I'm putting up a few pictures I found in Houzz last night. There is a designer in Seattle who transformed a cottage called Montlake, built in the 1920s. Gorgeous features, but the part speaking to me for MY house, MY kitchen, are the photos I share below.

Note that the counters have no backsplash, just have an "infinity" horizon with the window sill. Open air feel. The shelves are like floating open shelves, with white china on them, but it could be other useful objects as well. There are two layers of shelves, one up high seems like a soffit. Over all, it is a linear feeling, architectural in nature, with the horizontal lines giving a feeling of wideness to the small kitchen space.

The floors are dark wood, with a great rug down. I'd make mine a bit lighter, but wood for sure...Bellawood with 100 year warranty....as if I'd be around to file a claim!!!

A decent sized full range, with a minimalist stove vent not seeking to be center of attention. My range would be a 24 inch wide full range, probably on little legs, the Bertazzoni is what I want as my dream stove.

And see those painted white cabs? Matching the window trim? And the doors of the cabs just very plain also architectural and old style. They call this a revamped TRADITIONAL kitchen, and I guess that is what I like too.

I like the way the windows with their solid panes of glass in the lower part makes it appear a picture window. The divided panes above remain the traditional separate small glass.

I put the second picture in because it gives a view into the kitchen from the family room or living room. That full glass ornamental door in the kitchen allows a great deal of light to pass to the next room. And that room is quite pleasing too. Lots of color in there, with all the books and pillows. No really new furniture that I can tell. And did you see the way they bumped out that nook with windows on three sides to make a place for the reading chair and views in three direction? I know Lavender Lass will like this feature. In fact, the designer created more space in the small cottage by creating such bumpouts, and bump UPS too. But I'm not featuring what s/he did to the rest of the house, just in MY KITCHEN.

Then, take a look at what is going on in the dining area. Or maybe it is a small space in the kitchen for breakfast, I cannot tell, but it would work very well with my dining space. Because I have a square table just like that one, only with wrought iron legs and a solid slab of mahogany wood for the top. In this shot, the bumpout has a cabinet in it, and the windows come down to the countertop but the windows are shuttered here. In my space, this would be a window seat with storage below. And two base cabs at either end of it. But the shelving above the windows is "found space" for storage, right? Do YOU use that space for anything in YOUR house? I bet not. Long sweeps of those fat shelves, no visible means of support making them float, really modern look but keeping the nature of traditional.

Okay, now I know how to talk to the man who will draw up my plans for my kitchen. Since we halted the project for this winter, we'll have plenty of time to work on it before next winter in 2012.

Hope you are as delighted with this glimpse into a sweet little kitchen as I am. Just wish I could see where they put the fridge. My appliances will not be all together like this, but the look will be similar....if I have my druthers anyway.

Note the color shift is off because my PRINT SCREEN did it.

Comments (26)

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oh, i love every thing about those pics! I love that door, those windows, all of those shelves... I've seen shelving over doorways before - haven't had them myself tho. not because i wouldn't want them either.

    I'd have to be more careful about open shelves - especially up high. So much dust / dirt blows around out here and i'm afraid of heights. And not steady on my feet when they're on the flat ground so a ladder to reach up high would not be good for me... tho, glass doors over them would work!

    maybe the fridge is at the end of the 'non stove/sink' run/right side of the L.

  • Nancy in Mich
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is a sweet little kitchen, ML, and I am glad you found it and can SEE it during the year you have to put your construction on hold. It will help with the wait.

    I am fairly certain that the little table is in the kitchen. See the leg when you look into the kitchen from the sitting room, on the left side of the door? The "soffit height" shelves go all the way around the kitchen.

    I do like Steph's idea about putting them behind glass doors, too. You could still do that using the hidden bracket and plank system used in the plain shelves, just add vertical pieces to connect the doors to.

    I do love the look of this kitchen. I am afraid it is not practical for me, since we do have spiders that we don't exterminate (I discourage them by vacuuming them off the ceiling/wall edge when they build egg nests, but I don't mind a few here or there. We rarely have poisonous spiders here.) I also would not use the stuff up there often enough to keep it dust-free.

    I notice they used shutters - and on the INSIDE wall of the vertical storage in the bump-out near the table. I am sure that appealed to you, ML. It is an interesting option to have them open from there, instead of on the front. It is a cleaner look.

    I also love the infinity edge on the window counter. And that reading nook in the sitting room is grand! I am trying for a similar look with my bookcase closest to the window in the library. The antique rocker will sit there. Pictures later today on my library thread. No furniture today :-( but I will have pics of the book shelves and the hanging light!

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm pleased that you ladies have more observations to add, so I can think more in depth. It was, after all, love at first sight for me.

    Nancy, that reading chair in the corner.....notice that the reading light for that chair is mounted on the wall just to the left of the nook itself? A really space saving option to keep the floors clear, thus less problems vacuuming. I think everyone vacuums these days, and bases to floor lamps are always hard to keep clean, as are the cords running along the floor to the outlets.

    Yes, now I see the table leg so I can place the table and I was wondering how the soffit shelving would fit into the house. Perfect for my purposes too. And the shutters, we already have them in the dining room double windows. I will have the tall pantry on either side of the future window seat there. And now I know I'll make the pantry cabs only as high as the window tops. Above that, have the soffit shelving, and continue it all around the dining room AND the kitchen, because the wall separating the two will be removed. I already have a glass back door. I have everything except the stove and the hood. No upper cabs.

    Cannot wait for your library pictures. I wish GWeb gave us the option to subscribe to threads started by other people so I'd be notified in my email. Oh well. I show up here regularly enough but sometimes things drop down before I notice. THAT is a bummer. :/

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hadn't noticed the reading light on the wall. I like that too; I hate stuff in the way when I want to vacuum. Not that I want to often. ;)

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marti, another nice thing about screwing things to the wall, nobody comes along and MOVES THEM. I have that issue with my DH.

    He thinks I move things just to be moving them.
    I think he puts things in their RIGHT PLACE just because that is WHERE THEY ALWAYS WERE.

    Remember those comic strips about WHAT HE HEARD/WHAT SHE SAID?

    He hears, I AM SPENDING LOTS OF MONEY.
    She said, I WANT TO PAINT THE HOUSE.
    I'm sure we can all find examples of this disconnect in our daily lives. hehehehehe

  • InteriorStylist
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is FANTASTIC!!! I would sooooo live there!!! This is the type of space that I'm talking about in the Paradigm Shift thread. I may have to use these pics as inspiration. Thanks so much!!!

    ~Jeana

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ML- I went to Houzz to see the rest of the photos. It is a charming cottage, but typical of Seattle...very small yard. Montlake is actually a wealthy area of smaller, older homes, near Lake Washington, if I remember correctly. It's been years since I've been over there, but they had some lovely cottages.

    You're right, I do like the bump out window nooks, especially the one in the libray/dining area...very nice! The chair is wonderful and that little lamp is so practical.

    As for your dream kitchen, I think it will be beautiful and functional. I know you like those infinity windows and shutters, and the shelves are great! How nice that the kitchen table is even similar to yours...but the window seat will be much better :)

  • Shades_of_idaho
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I SWEAR I responded to this post the other day. hummmmmmmm Must have been the time I fell asleep at the keyboard. Been really busy.

    Anyway I really love the looks of these rooms. I am too lazy to keep things on open shelves clean and too short to easily reach them. But I LOVE the look.

    The reading room looks to cozy. TOTALLY agree on the floor lamps. Always in the way. I have three old ones I really love to hate. LOL

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jeana, glad you like it too. I think it is the coolest thing I've seen in a while, and it has enough "tradition" for me and enough modern adaptation as well.

    As folks already know about my likes, that infinity window look just puts me outdoors, and I love it. Bringing this into my kitchen will be a challenge, because the stucco exterior of my house is tough to work with. It is metal reinforced. But for the infinity kitchen window look, I'm willing to pay for their trouble. Maybe it will let in more of my wi-fi signal, breaking my metal cage keeping out the signals!!! However, I plan to take my computer to the loft in the Teahouse, up high in the trees, and nothing but a foot of cement in the walls, no metal except for the roofing.

    Open shelves were what I opted for in my MoccasinLanding kitchen back in 1999. I had some really OLD wide boards, just took the nails out of them, and after taking down the knotty pine upper cabs on the side walls, I put up the shelves. That kitchen was 17 feet long and 11 feet wide. It was like a cave when I started. I left the upper cabs on each end of the room, and that sort of squished the room shorter. I had no problem with dust at all. But I was so proud of my new dishwasher, that I was washing everything when it even looked dusty. Loved that kitchen and it only cost me $5,000 to redo it, counting the sealed electric cook top, the dishwasher, and the trash compactor. AND the Wilsonart formica almond countertops. I installed track lighting in a U-shape so every work spot had great light.
    Very functional. I'm all about function.

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm all about function too ML. But if it can look nice too, I count it as a real bonus. I'm like Shades, too short for those shelves around the top of the room, but they sure are pretty.

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, it is time for me to get to grooving on the design for our kitchen. DH said so at dinner tonight. I'm not sure how serious he is about this, but I will pull together my pictures and talk with the designer who is the cousin of the contractor we use. I'll TALK to him, anyway, and see if he gets what I'm aiming to achieve. If not, then I have a second person who is also recommended and has worked with our contractor also.

    Nothing grand, you understand. But a lot of old electrical work straightened out, new cabinets that are standard size, and I plan on NO overhead cabs. Two plate racks yes, but no cabs. Just the floating open shelf look. And a small range hood which is powerful enough to suck out wok cooking vapors. This will include the dining room window seat and flanking tall pantries, a small 2-seater bar perpendicular to the new gas range site, a pot rack, tall cabs either side of the French door fridge, and a sort of peninsula sticking out enough to have a place to set stuff after I get it out of the fridge. I think build in the two microwaves I have, one is tiny and the other is fairly big and powerful, it has been my only oven (convection/mw combo), for almost 8 years.

    And this will take in the porch present footprint into the kitchen, but add on about 10 more feet to the porch width so it will increase the size of the master bedroom. And I plan to have one of those barn sliding doors to the bedroom. The current entry to the master will be closed off, and that end of the hall will become my utility closet for the vacuum cleaner, light bulbs, seldom used items like the iron/ironing board, a/c filters, cleaning supplies, and bath linens for the tiny bathroom. Actually, what remains of the existing hallway can be just closed off at the dining room, and the front bedroom (now our study) could become a second suite, with a closet, and a bath, if this house should ever be rented out to two single folks wanting separate accommodations. But for us, we really need it to be our study/library/den. The flat panel 32" HDTV is on its way south as we speak, and it will be mounted on the wall in this room.

    If DH lets me stretch the budget a little, I'll have the contractor put a wall of book shelving in the living room, around the fireplace, because we have about 2 tons of books in that PODS which DH could not part with. All his old engineering texts from 50 years of working. Plus, other stuff, and he says he doesn't hang on to things. HA!!!

    Well, I have a lot more to think about, but as far as appliances, all are on hand presently except the Bertazzoni 24 inch gas range. I think that will be about $2000, and then maybe we can do a tankless gas waterheater. Otherwise, I will go back to a regular natural gas water heater. You know, the gas company gives you a water heater if you convert from electric....and the electric company gives you one if you convert from gas. hehehehe. That's how we got a free electric water heater when we took out the old gas w/heater when we enclosed the back porch into the kitchen.
    But I know they believe in giving us a huge tank, and I'd just as soon keep it reasonable in size. DH is going to put solar panels on the roof (southern exposure) to preheat water and to store electricity for outside lights mostly. I love solar energy.

    Oh yes. Important also. All the furniture coming OUT of the house, because we will have new Bellawood floors installed. Or so I intend. Over the old 1.5" wide oak boards. And that includes the kitchen. All that will be the same. Only tile will be in the walkin closet, both bathrooms, and on the sun porch. This is where the Teahouse will pay for itself. Everything moved out there. I guess I will be trying to live for a couple of months in the little river house where I lived for a year after I sold MoccasinLanding. I loved that little house, and enjoyed the company of my friends who own it....it is in their back yard, down on Dog River.
    She is so laid back, never gets stressed, just the kind of person I need around me.

    I always thought I was a patient person, but then I realized that my life was passing me by, and I went into high gear. And have not stopped since.

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You & dh are going to live in the little river house, or the tea house?

    Sounds like you are ready to get going on this. Dh said he is going to get going on our dining room plan, but I'll believe it when I see something.

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ML - yes, get started on it. it takes a loooong time of redoing, redoing, rethinking and redoing the plans/LO etc.

    and choosing things like faucet, lighting etc. Sounds like your kitchen will increase in size a good deal.

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steph, I know how dedicated Lavender Lass has been to redoing a whole house, and I hope I can condense my design chore into much less time. But it isn't as if I had not thought about it for a long time.

    After my DH said I could do whatever I wanted, he asked me what it was I wanted. Well, first pea out of the pod, I said, "Knock out the wall between the dining and kitchen," and he almost freaked. "I really wish you wouldn't." And I said, "...but yes it has to be done so I can use the other side of the room."

    I suppose I must get some tranquilizers to put in his Cheerios every morning. When I said we'd have to move everything out of the house and stay somewhere else, his eyes got big, but he knows (and likes) my friend with the little house in her back yard. We had a lovely time at that place. Sort of a Sears kit home. But we'd just stay there and not move anything over except our clothes and the critters.

  • Shades_of_idaho
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How exciting to be able to get started. I do not envy you all the work. I WILL enjoy watching all your progress. You do such nice update pictures.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    moccasinlanding, I can almost see the wheels turning as you describe your plans. You always make such thoughtful observations and comments on others' projects, I know you'll be considering every detail. I'll be looking forward to your progress updates!

    When the time comes, can you post pictures of the river house?

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I suppose I must get some tranquilizers to put in his Cheerios every morning. '

    lol! cracks me up!

    yes, I do think you have been thinking a lot on it for some time now- right? i know you've posted about it several times.
    That's a good thing tho because it does take a lot of thought and figuring. I've thought out and rethought out things for the new place so many times i'm dizzy! Would never have imagined so much goes into it. I'm at the point now tho where I'm just tired and think redoing the kitchen next yr will just be too much on me. Who knows if I'll even be moved in yet? lol! I might still consider changing out the lower cabs tho so I can get drawers. That would make things much easier on me. When cleaning the upper cabs I found they are very nice inside - just the outside is a mess.

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ML, your dh sounds like a keeper. I want to knock out the wall between kitchen and living room too and I think that's why my dh is dragging his feet on the specs. When do you plan to start?

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marti, I told him you said he was a keeper, and he just chuckled. Oh yeah, I think I'll keep him.

    Well, I do not know when we'll start. We'd planned to this winter. Except we used the money for grandkids tuitions. But now he is ready to do it, although I put off my commitment to the designer so it won't be this winter. If I get the PODS all cleared away, we'll be able to do some planning for the remodel job. Actually, I'd like to get the design and be ready to start work in April or maybe May. That way, DH will be here for the start but he usually goes north around Mother's Day. And I can be HOME ALONE......oh joy, I can do anything I want then. Oh sigh, such bliss.
    But I must make sure our contractor will be able to make this commitment to our job. It will require a LOT of attention.

    Hopefully, my hand will be healed and I can swing a crowbar and sledgehammer and do part of the demo. And moving all the furniture ONE MORE TIME out to the Teahouse.

    Does this make sense? I am not always clear speaking.

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oh, this will be exciting! post everything!

    I don't remember what happened to your hand? did you post it?

  • Shades_of_idaho
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Makes perfect sense to me.

    I am laughing because all I asked for was a NEW kitchen faucet.I told DH when we ordered the house the faucet was no good for me. FINALLY thee years later I informed him I have hired some one to do it for me. Now I need to find the faucet I want. NO sprayer. High up. He says it will splash too much I say NO the low one makes more splash because things do not fit under it. Gee I wonder what he would say if I told him I wanted to knock out a wall??? Snicker.

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steph, don't know how I hurt it, something happened when I was packing I suppose. Going to therapy for it. Nothing broken, tendons messed up.

    Shades, the way I do things, I propose something very big, very invasive or requiring a lot of time/effort/money, and then when I "settle" for something simple....like a new faucet....he is so relieved, it is an easy sell. :)

    And meantime, I made the mistake of perusing the current HOUZZ episode, about a 90 square foot kitchen which is modern but has beadboard, open shelves, smaller appliances, wooden floors, very enticing....I put most of the pictures of this kitchen into my HOUZZ idea book. Here is the link:

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Modern 90 sq ft kitchen with touch of traditional[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/kitchen-of-the-week-bright-and-modern-in-90-square-feet-stsetivw-vs~970641)

  • Shades_of_idaho
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh YES that is a fantastic kitchen. I like that faucet too. Even though I said I do not need a sprayer this set up would totally work for me. If you went this direction would that mean you would use the other part as pantry or another room or sun porch to your house? Talk to us ML what you thinking??

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    shades - do you read the threads on 'kitchens' about splashing faucets? I think some cited the very high up faucets. might be when used with the newer very deep sinks tho. check 'em out.

    i want one higher than those that have been popular in the past but not near as high as many now. I've seen several I really like but they are too high for me. I measured and think I'll stay around 8- 9" at the highest point off of the counter top. I also have a more shallow sink. not sure what it is - I should go measure it. It's still in the back end of my car! lol!

  • Shades_of_idaho
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Steph I will go look at kitchens. DOH I never thought of that. My sink is deeper than some I have had but not extreme. If I swing my faucet to center divider it is only about 4 inches from that divider high. I have to work things under it. I really dislike this faucet. I had one higher than the one I have now and really loved it.

  • User
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First about splashing faucets and sinks. Hmmm, I have a new undermount stainless sink waiting for the new kitchen, just a single 30 inch wide sink, and it is about 15 inches front to back, I think. Cannot remember cuz it's been in the garden shed for almost 2 years waiting waiting. No holes for it. I also have the arched tall single handle faucet, you can turn it from a solid stream to a spray, or press a button and hold so the water stops while you pull out the hose. My current sink has two bowls, the middle does create a problem, which is why I am getting rid of it. Also, I cannot set anything like a glass down in it, it slopes so much the glass falls over. NOT a good design. The new sink has its hole near the back middle of the sink, so the piping beneath leaves more usable space for keeping STUFF below. Like my roll out trash bin I think.

    But what was I saying....oh.....I don't have any splashing. I like my faucet, which will be used again when I redo the kitchen. That's what I bought it for, just could not wait because the OLD faucet made a wet mess under the sink and got everything soggy. I don't suppose I uploaded a shot of my faucet, but I think it is a Moen. Looks good, works good. And with a single bowl sink, I can let my parrot who likes to take a tub bath play in the sink undisturbed. Now HE does a LOT of splashing.

    And my new sink is 10 or 11 inches deep. Sort of squared in the corners.

    We have ONE item left in the PODS to remove, a wide low chest, and then I can think of something different. Somehow all the boxes fit in my study and in the Teahouse. Of course, everything will come out of the house when we begin the kitchen remodel, since it involves the floors in the whole house. I think I'll be going for the narrow ash Bellawood floors, even in the kitchen, but I'll have to look at the whole plan before saying for sure. And if I can spec the cabinets properly, I like the IKEA wood cabs....just not sure I'll order all the pieces I want, and 400 miles up to Atlanta is a long road to do twice for some item that I neglected to order. And, with trades sitting around waiting on me, I'd freak out. What I REALLY REALLY want to do, is get a contractor in the Mobile area interested in becoming an IKEA installer and driving to get the cabs himself, it would be a great sideline. The basic cabs for ALL IKEA cabs are Rationel and could be kept on hand given adequate storage space, then just the stylish pieces picked up for individual customers. Like, I'd want the sort of beadboard cab doors and end panels. Or the kind that are a bit Prairie style in white satin finish. Some beadboard in my kitchen, but not everything.

    DH wants (or so he says) wooden cabs. But he does not know how expensive custom cabs can be. I'd like to have NICE cabs, just the base cabs mostly drawers, open shelves instead of upper cabs. Two tall pantries either side of a window seat in the dining room, storage beneath. And then two tall cabs either side of the French door fridge, and some overhead across that entire area for seldom used decorative items. Glass doors in that high up area, with lighting inside the cab on dimmers, preferable LED or 12 volt LED, not the kind that puts out heat.

    Basically, the kitchen itself is a galley style. On the south wall will be the fridge set up, then the sink setup and then the pantry/window seat setup. I think of this as one side of the kitchen, even though it won't be a flat plain row. There will be a brief little protrusion of a cabinet/peninsula pimple between the sink and the fridge, so I can set things there to put into the fridge or to take out of the fridge.

    On the other wall of the kitchen, the north wall if you will, but again not in a straight line, not all facing into the kitchen, will be the walkway/opening to the master bedroom, just inside the door from the deck, then the stacking laundry center, then a cabinet beside the range, then the range, a work space on the other side of the range at least 3 feet long, then a 42 inch high bar perpendicular to the cooking side of the kitchen, with room for just 2 stools. Those stools will be in the present dining room though. The walls at both ends of this kitchen space will mostly come out, leaving the solid part above doorways and trimming it out with the open soffit style white painted shelving that I love in the kitchen which started this thread off. My counter top on the sink side of the kitchen will be Silestone Stellar Snow, which is the same sort of white/gray/sparkly color we have up in DH's little cape. On the other side, the cooking side, I want a stainless steel counter top on both sides of the range. The section of one cab I'm thinking to have a nice butcherblock top, and over that I want a really good, but small potrack. I love good pots. Inside the kitchen itself, a total shelf about 15 inches down from the ceiling to go entirely around the room. A squarish range vent which does not block the view from the bar stools out the back door. The back wall of the kitchen will face the deck and my back garden. So I want to make sure it is a good view. I'm still thinking of increasing the size of the window over the sink, and lowering it to counter height, so it has that infinity edge look. That's where I stand and watch the wild birds come to our feeder. If I do that infinity look, I won't worry about splash on the beadboard behind the counters on that side of the kitchen.

    One problem which my DH is concerned about is the location of the laundry. First, I might have to draw it for you. But, not now. See if this description makes sense:
    I want to put the laundry on the inside wall of the space that used to be the back porch. That porch is about 6.5 feet wide, so the dryer exhaust would have to run UP that wall and across overhead to exit out toward the back deck. It could be hidden in a thingy just above the doorway to our master bedroom. I'm planning to have a surface mounted sliding barn door to the bedroom, so the door will be 36 inches wide, and slide away beside the laundry center. Yeah, I'll have to draw that.

    My DH says the laundry will have to be located on an outside wall. I don't want to do that, I want a clean sweep of nothing but glass along that back wall through the kitchen and into the new back of the bedroom. Yep, this kitchen redo will also add some space to our master bedroom.

    Okay, don't fret yourselves about that laundry. But I just want to know if a laundry absolutely HAS TO BE on an outside wall. I thought just so the ducting for the dryer was less than 96 inches, it could be on an inside wall. Only ONE 90 degree turn in what I propose. Up one wall, across the ceiling and straight outdoors. It's a stacking unit, so the dryer vent is already near the top of the interior wall. Does anyone know about dryer codes? I bet Shades does. :)

    Hmmm, I can tell I'm getting tired. It's been a long day.
    G'night, ladies....and gents too.