Not much help. I know you are not happy coming in front door and looking into kitchen. On the plan it looks like you have nice working kitchen.

Our kitchen side of the kitchen dinning room space is 11 by 12 1/2 and it is a comfortable working space. Making it narrower is fine but we would loose the small pantry. We have a door out to the laundry room so a door fits in this space. If you flipped out kitchen plan you could do the same in the space of 10'3 by 11'. Maybe use part of the old kitchen for pantry.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen floor plan

Marti, I'm thinking we just did some ideas with your cathedral ceiling in the room adjacent to the kitchen, right? The blue recliners? You knocked down a small part of the wall to the kitchen and made a bar?

So your kitchen is not visible much from the front door/foyer at all, is it? Now is the cathedral celing in the LIVING ROOM? Or is it what you call the bonus room?

And what is the room you say is the "slab?"
I'll have to reread this again to tell where the window and light sources are. Please draw an arrow pointing toward the NORTH. That is always helpful so we can judge the quality of the light.

You said the things you were dissatisfied about, and then listed the good things, so I do think you are ambivalent about this house. And is this the "pig snout" where the bonus room is? And is that a high big gable over that bonus room?

Please get one of the NOT SO BIG HOUSE books and read through it to learn what an architect says can be done to make a home more cozy. Every library in the country has at least ONE of Susanka's books.

I'll try to think about this a little more, and get back with you. One of the issues is, your DH has opinions of his own, and might feel that stuff out of a book is not "real world." So I will try to be pretty straight-forward with my ideas. I went through this with my DH, until he finally had to admit that my plans always turned out great.

Yes, ML, the living room is the one with the vaulted ceiling and the room I just moved the blue furniture into. In fact, doing that is what made me think it would be so nice if the whole area was open with a view to the backyard.

We have not yet opened up the wall between the living room and the kitchen, and I wouldn't open it up all the way if the kitchen stays there because I don't want a view from the front door straight into the kitchen.

The room that says Bonus is the one we are using as a den right now, and it is also the room with the snout front on the house. It used to be the garage, and for a long time, it was just a big storage room.

The Slab is where we intended to build the dining room after we extended the kitchen into the original dining space. That was 15 years ago! lol

The back of the house/kitchen faces west and the front door and two little bedrooms face east. I don't know that that matters a lot though. If we put windows across the back of the house, we would put a covered porch across to shade them.

And you're right. I am ambivalent about this house. I never liked it from the first time I saw it, but thought we could fix it up and move in a few years so liking it wasn't critical. Dh liked the location, and here we have stayed for 14 years. I've been looking at houses in town and lots in town to build on, and I haven't seen anything I like better. This house is affordable, and dh doesn't want to move, so I've decided to make lemonade out of this lemon of a house.

Marti, I always like to start with an understanding of my directions. The quality of the light you get, the bang for your buck, is very important, which means knowing where you get "true" and constant light, from the NORTH ONLY, and then the pure joy of light in the winter, which comes from the SOUTH. East and west light is not constant, in that it can come from one corner or the other, depending on the time of year. To get the most bang for your window buck, facing your windows SOUTH will get it, and also throughout the year. Now a view is another thing, can be from any direction. When you put those windows beneath a porch overhang, you will end up with a restricted view, but you won't be getting much light. Unless you also put in a skylight on the porch roof above your window.

I love the quality of morning light that comes from the east, and having a kitchen that faces east and south is a great arrangement. Having a den or family room that can get southern light and maybe some restricted western light, during the hours when the family will be there, is another good arrangement.

So knowing which direction your house is turned is quite important in problem solving. If what you want is "view to the backyard," then it can be done. It might not be required to add a porch to cover the window, but instead a simple arbor to give a frame for some nice climbing plant that can take that environment and also shelter the glass from hot western sun. But we'll see what the options are for moving things.

First of all, we need to find something to call the "slab" besides SLAB, so that it will find a new identity and live up to its new role in life. That's why I name things, and why I now have a TEAHOUSE and not a DERELICT GARAGE. :)

I have a little story about this which I might get around to sharing on the CONVERSATION side, since it is way off topic. But now I must go paint the crown molding before DH grabs the brush himself. That would never do. :)

are there walls to the 'slab room' yet? Why can't you put a door out to the back?

I think I'd put french doors off the back (new DR/old kit), an archway (big one) between LR/DR - so light from FD comes into LR.

bonus room could easily (I think) be even just furniture divided into a TV area for 2 and an office/library area. Either one could go with the 2 front corner windows - and the other with the side windows. cozy it up!

will think about kit when I know if walls there yet and why door can't go to the back.

which direction is front? which is back (off now kitchen)?N, E, S or W?

No, there are no walls on the slab yet, just the concrete. Dh is supposed to be working on it, making a list of materials, etc. But he seems to be in no hurry. If he procrastinates long enough, I'll have time to have this idea all hashed out and show to him. I probably need to have a plumber come over to make sure the plumbing part can be done.

Hi, Marti!
I like your plan. :) I'm excited to play with it. How wide is your hall? Are your closets 2 ft deep? I can see your lines really well, but I'm having trouble seeing the grid. Thanks!

Marti, I just noticed that your house is laid out inside almost like the house which has the wood stove in it, and a basement, but I've just blown up your house (image, that is), as my wallpaper so I can see what is going on here.

Do you have any stairs in your house? What is that passageway in front of the laundry area? Seems to me that you have some prime real estate that could be moved out of that spot, and into the new "slab" area, along with a pretty good pantry and a mudroom. If I'm correct, this would work out nicely with your garage location off that corner of the property too?

I'm not done working it out, but I think they foyer could be better off moved to the south wall of the pig snout., which means just turning it about 90 degrees, and you could set it up different to keep the kitchen from being visible right away. Quite likely, it would work out that a smaller den then a living room, and the dining between the LR and the kitchen. To achieve this, you can put a lower soffit over the end of the cathedral ceiling and where the present foyer and the present laundry are located, you can have your dining area.

Or, if that old laundry can become your second bath, then the present second bath can be another large walk in closet for the master.

Don't hold me to it, but I like your kitchen where it is. And I'd like to see that wall between the LR and the kitchen open up, even with a lot of posts it would look fantastic. I'm not kidding you, PLEASE look at Sarah Susanska's books, they show stuff like this. And I think you'd find your DH more accepting once he sees how it comes together in real life. She even has a solution to the big pig snout look.

I'll try to draw it out what I mean, but for the rest of this week we are having family in town, and I might be very busy with that.

Oh I forgot to mention.
That front porch area is facing east. Since it is beneath the long and shallow ground level porch, don't worry about windows there.

The pig snout faces east with its gable, but with one long side of the roof, it faces SOUTH, blessed SOUTH. And you only have ONE WINDOW ON THAT SOUTH WALL. What a pity. The only other windows facing south are the windows of your two bedrooms, another pity, because you won't be in there during sunny hours to glory in the light, and if you have to sleep in the daytime, you have to have some blackout drapes. So we won't mess with that.

BUT, I do think you can benefit from a couple of good windows on the south wall of your pig snout/bonus room.
Give it a new purpose, if you must. I'm thinking that you really have a split personality in this house, because the cathedral ceiling next to the kitchen LOOKS like a DEN to me, and NOT like a living room. It even has the fireplace in it. BUT, if you want to keep your bonus as a den, then it needs to be shrink down a bit. Give the part of it at the end of the porch to the entry/foyer. It will be great that way. But I will be drawing it out later.
Gotta go for now.

Marti - glad you mentioned a plumber, as I imagine relocating the kitchen water lines, possible gas lines, and especially the drain pipe could be an expensive proposition - especially through a slab...is this really feasible? I do love how you are willing to re-imagine your spaces though...

Marti- Lemons into lemonade, too? Well, I think you've got a lot of potential, here! I like the idea of making the bonus room, a combination den and office area.

Instead of using the slab for the kitchen, why not open up the living room to the kitchen? I think it would make a wonderful kitchen/dining/keeping room. It would be warm and cozy, perfect for entertaining or just for the two of you. It would be very 'Not so big house' and also very inviting! :)

I'm not sure which of your walls are load bearing, but it's likely some could come down and others could have beams or maybe half walls with posts (depending on your style). If this is something you'd be at all interested in, there are some great ways to combine the spaces, working around the challenges, and come up with a beautiful space, that overlooks your lovely gardens!

Also, I think the slab would make a wonderful glass/screen porch (away room for you) that could be connected to the new space, with french doors. Now, that would be a nice way to enjoy the garden, have extra plants, or make it into a craft room, or even a ML teahouse, type of space :)

Okay, since I'd be otherwise occupied later this week, I've been busy working on some ideas. Here is the plan...had a bad time trying to find it after the scanner HID it on my computer. Explanations of sorts follow this.

One thing, it can be done in stages. Even one or two windows at a time in the bonus room. Then the AWAY ROOM has windows lined up so you can see into the den thru the French doors, even have them open. You can see who is at the door, can look outside toward the patio and garage.

I'd for sure move the back door out of its present spot. I think your patio will not be so useful after the walls go up for the spot which is now a slab, but if you really use it a lot, then the mudroom/laundry can have a door on two walls, or one door only in the wall shown as the laundry area now.

Where the laundry is now, and also that wasted area of hallway in front of it, could be taken as a relocation site for #2 bathroom, then the present #2 bath can be your second walk in closet. There is room to move the linen closet out of the bath, with a doorway in the hall, and then room for a second lavatory in #2 bath. But as you can see, I've drawn it as a pantry primarily, giving a little more space to the living/dining room.

For the kitchen, you could just reduce the solid wall at both ends of the stove countertop areas, and have wide arched openings ...I'm meaning flat archways, not curved.
Then take that little bump of a counter out making the cabinet end flat, turn the old back door into a fairly wide window, and have a small breakfast table there.

Put the laundry into the new MUDROOM/LAUNDRY, and position them according to how many doors you will need. I'd think one on the wall leading to the back deck, but you might need two doors if you also need direct kitchen access to the patio. Cover the laundry with bifold shutters, giving a light and airy feeling. Any doors in the mudroom can have the top portion glass unless you want a single French door.

Nice thing about this plan, you can add the walls to the slab and create that area and move the back door in one project. That will clear out the laundry area. Maybe you won't know yet if you want more storage for a pantry or a second walk in closet or don't have the money for moving a bathroom. So I'd suggest doing the windows in the den next, maybe those facing south first. And move the front entry door. You can build the entry closets and put in the French doors and the AWAY ROOM as you get around to it. And I'd also turn the old front doorway into a fixed long window.

I left the living/dining open for ideas, because it isn't so big that you MUST put the table adjacent the kitchen, it could move where the foyer area is so you can stay focused on the fireplace with your seating. Or the table could go perpendicular to the kitchen wall and long ways behind the sofa. A sofa in front of the fireplace could have a sofa table or a buffet behind it, serving two purposes. I still think a soffit over the dining area would make it more intimate, and a nice chandelier if you settle on a specific dining spot, would be nice. I'm fond of swagging lights so that I can move the table and light around, I hate to get committed to ONE WAY of doing something.

Now note that the AWAY room has its French doors on the diagonal knocking off one corner. That is something I saw Sarah Susanska do, and it gives a nice open feel. They make French doors that are each 24" wide, which I think would be good for that space. The 36" wides (a pair) for entering the den would be good. It also would let light from that room's south windows to go further through the house.

Guests arriving will see the doors going one direction and an open doorway on the other, so I'm thinking that will point them to take the open path.

Note that the three windows I drew in your AWAY room, are supposed to all three be lined up, giving anyone a clear line of sight to the yard beyond. Plant a small tree out there to improve the view. Plus, when you sit in that comfy chair with your feet up on the ottoman, you can also look out the side light at the entry, or out the french doors to the southern window and the front yard (another spot to plant a small tree, preferable something like a Japanese maple)....and so on and on.

Not I really must go to bed. The stucco guys did not show up today, and I really must be up early in case they are here tomorrow. The Teahouse is almost done. Wheeeeeeeeee.

Awww, ML, you are so sweet to put so much effort into it. Unfortunately, we can't move the front door. Remember that funny little drawing in the top right corner - the roofline?
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Basically, the house and garage are under separate roofs with a little connecting piece right over the foyer and that little closet, and there are valley's at both ends of the little piece. There is probably a lot of bracing in the outer walls under that thing, plus no way to easily put a roof over a door with those valleys where they are.

I got a little chuckle seeing the window you added right there because there actually used to be a window there and we closed it up a few years ago. It was right under one of those little valleys and we just couldn't keep the water out of it.

Whoever designed this house should really be forced to live here for a few years.

ML, I like what you did with the former garage/bonus room/den - putting the office in the corner. I think that will work nicely.

Moving the laundry and water heater would be nice, but then we are talking mega bucks. I absolutely hate the laundry where it is, but we can't see a way around it.

LL, both of the long walls in the living room are load bearing because the ceiling is vaulted, but it could be opened with a couple of posts and a lam beam. We did check into that when we thought about just opening up the wall. But my kitchen is usually a mess, and I just don't think I can stand having my kitchen open to the front door.

It's a weird place for a patio, facing north which is hot in summer, facing the driveway, and having no privacy from anyone driving down the street. So our plan is to a pergola over it, a door from the new room, and use it as an outdoor kitchen.
peegee and young-gardener, I redid the plan on the Ashley website. It's pretty crude and simple (and small), but easier to see just the walls. I also included all the room sizes. Not sure which hall you were asking about young-g, so I did both.
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Also, the blue line is the water line coming into the house, and the septic is drawn right off the kitchen. Because of their location, I thought it might not be too bad to jack hammer out the edge of the new slab and add the drain and connect to the water line. Hot water would be an issue.

Here is what I think I would really like, I just can't figure out how to do it with my existing cabinets. The sizes for them are at the top. They're just too good to toss out. There is one base unit with deep pan drawers that I definitely want to keep, and an 18" stack of drawers. The other lower units are just average two-shelf-can't-see-what's-in-there types, and I have thought of keeping the doors (because I can't find anyone who can match them) and having new bases built, or rebuilding them if possible.
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Or I could just say heck with it all, and learn to co-exist with it the way it is.

Marti, you could still put your AWAY room (not really an office, since he already has one in another spot) in the same spot. I would move the zigzag pathway up there, and still open up that room with the French doors, and have a direct entry to the living room itself but move it nearer the fireplace end of the room. I'll try to draw a new scheme today, after working a little more. And please add more windows to the SOUTH WALL OF THE DEN. You will be amazed at the difference it can make.

The green kitchen in this plan is sort of biting yourself by creating even MORE problems with flow through the room than before. If you want it there, make it a U-shape and leave the side by the patio door open, and take OUT that back door. But I think your kitchen where it is is really nice.

The hot water issue can be solved with a tankless water heater. Not just ONE, but several if required to reach the right spots. Like moving the laundry to the slab would be a lot easier because only ONE tankless added specifically for that, could be put in the new space, and then a sewer drain can be tied into the line under the closest spot. Like under the kitchen sink?

If you are concerned with the way your kitchen looks from the entry, you can add some bifold doors (yeah, I believe in them), and even make them French style with the frosted glass to let LIGHT through, but also obscure the details beyond.

Before you start moving something as expensive as a KITCHEN, look at the cosmetic options first.

If you want that slab for dining, then you can do that. It won't require any special expenses to make a blank room. What I'm seeing with this green drawn area, is you are increasing the sense of separation between you in the kitchen or the bonus room, and the rest of the house. It does not flow nor feel open. I do not think this will do much to relieve your sense of alienation with the house.

Here is an idea... requires a lot more work on your part though...

Move the kitchen to the patio area (enlarging your house footprint a little more), keep the dining area in the 10x11 slab area, remove the living room load-bearing wall as originally intended and then enlarging the living room area.

On the living room back wall (where the back door is located) - you could have a whole row of either sliding glass doors or french doors (which would act as both doors and windows) which would go across the entire back wall including the back wall of the dining area. THEN you could build a private patio area off the french doors. We have used sliding glass doors in several of the homes that we have built since they are so versatile and use less interior space then french doors (which open in/out). Also - you can save a lot of money by using sliding glass doors in place of large windows.

The kitchen, living, and dining would all have big windows to allow lots of light.

You could even have a door leading from the kitchen to the office/den for quick access - OR - put a hallway leading from the front door to the new kitchen (knock out the closet).

It sounds like you have already closed off the garage to use it as a den/office. Personally - I like the idea of having an attached garage - especially if I could come in from the garage and enter right into the kitchen area to drop groceries, etc. Could you put the office someplace else - perhaps in the enlarged living room? Do you need separate den AND living room?

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2068703}}

Oh I love those sliding glass doors!

Do you mean the patio where we are going to put the outdoor kitchen? With the extremely odd roof situation, it would be almost impossible to do that without tearing the whole roof off and starting over with that.

I was thinking the new slab just because the water line is already there and the plumbing might not be such an issue.

No, we don't need a separate living room and den now that the kids are gone. But for resale, it would probably be good to have it, as this would probably be a starter home for a young family.

We closed in the garage because the builder, bless his little pointed head, didn't allow enough room to turn into it, the garage door opening wasn't built right, and it was a tight fit for two cars even when we drove through the grass to get the cars in. So we built another garage, detached, just off the kitchen side of the house. And since we are rural, it has really cut down on the mice that come into the house, which is a real plus in my book.

ML, you may not remember the other picture I posted, but our house is brick. Both you and brit n rick have hit on privacy and the views and it has made the rusty little wheels in my brain start moving. Instead of just having pergola posts on that patio, I could build a raised planter all along the edge too and have evergreen vines growing up which would screen the not so lovely driveway view and passing neighbors, and most importantly, have a nice view for us inside the house. I could put those sliding doors on both sides of the dining room too.

Brit n rick, who sells that door?

Evergreen vines up in your part of the world might include the Boston Ivy, which is absolutely beautiful. Since it is on the northern exposure of your house, I'd suggest maybe a little bit of the vinyl lattice sheets, maybe just two foot wide x 8 foot tall, which would really screen the view but be quite attractive with your style of house. Never need painting either. Insects do not bother them. Plus, YOU can see OUT perfectly well, because you are close up to the open squares. It comes diagonally made with diamonds, or square made, with horizontal/vertical strips. I think the diamond shapes give the best visual privacy, sort of optical illusion. And, then you might choose to leave your drapes either side of the fireplace open to see something pretty out those two windows.

If you don't have a nice view, then you can create one.

Hmmm, your builder must have placed the wrong house on your lot. Was it a spec built house? That would explain why the windows are all in the wrong places for LIGHT.

Disclaimer: I threw the budget out the window just to have some fun with your cute house. I'll do a more realistic plan soon. :)

LOL, young-gardener, I threw the budget out the window just dreaming of moving the kitchen. Dh thinks I threw out my mind along with it. I've learned not to use "magazine" phrases around him, like saying "let's just bump out the wall" because he goes ballistic at the words just and bump in the same sentence.

But I'll tell you what, if a fire or F5 tornado ever takes out my house, I'm going with your plan!

That is a great plan.

Young- Love the plan! :)

Marti- I like your proposed plan, but your kitchen would end up much smaller...would you have room for everything? What if you stayed with the current plan (more or less) and changed the layout, a bit?

Here's one idea...opening up the kitchen to the living room, but 'hiding' the fridge/freezer and oven/microwave from view. A raised countertop for the bar, should help hide even more of the 'working parts' of the kitchen.

I took out the little peninsula and changed the swing of the door...and added more windows over the sink, which moved down, opposite the stove. You could have a downdraft or a nice, sleek vent, over the range, depending on your style. Now, the light from the kitchen goes into the living room and you have easy access to the outside and dining room...which leads to the patio with pergola. It's not Young's plan, but it may be an idea :)

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Here are a few more ideas...

Look how much light, a big kitchen window bring into the space :)

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Imagine having a nice bar area like this...and being able to talk to people, while you cook, of course...I'd have the bar area higher than the cooktop, but still a nice picture.

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Beautiful french doors, into the dining room.

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WOW LL You have the most amazing inspiration pictures. The window over the sink is gorgeous.

Well crap!

Just got back from the CPA and he recommends we put the max into an IRA every year until we retire. Dh agrees with him, so while we are still going to add on that room, it is back to being a tight budget. Gee, just when I was really thinking up neat stuff to want!

LL, I love that kitchen picture; I think I have it saved somewhere too. I saw it before we left to go to the CPA and was trying to think how to do something similar. The problem is, I'd rather have upper cabinets than lower ones (except the deep drawers).

So for now, I need to decide what windows to put in that room, and what kind of ceiling. We had thought about putting a ceiling like this:
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Not the benches or anything else, just the ceiling. With all the windows, I thought the higher ceiling would help with the heat, and give the room a lot of interest. However, it will also be more expensive. Not that we would have to put the wood on now, it could be added later. But the shape would have to be done from the beginning.

We have beams in the top of the vaulted ceiling in the living room and they would kind of adjoin, and we have talked about adding beams to the living room something like this:
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I also like this:

And I think it would fit more with the rest of the house. I want the room to look like it has been here since the house was built.

And I like this, in a way better than the rest. Only I would flip it so the flat beadboard part is in the kitchen, and the vaulted part in the dining room, separated by the beam:

I also think this would be easier to build, and cheaper, than the cone-shaped vaulted ceiling.

Which do you like?

Marti, when I tell you that you need to look at the Sarah Susanka books, now I really really know you MUST. Those last two pictures above illustrate what she talks about, the intimate feel you get by varying the ceiling height. MUCH better than the total open lofted cathedral ceilings, which are going out of favor more all the time.

The last one with the beadboard ceiling in part of the kitchen is quite like the vision I have for bringing my back porch into the kitchen, when we raise the floor to equal the kitchen. I'm sure there could be about a foot difference in ceiling heights then, and beadboard is myy choice for that area. I'm also thinking of hardwood floor in the kitchen as well, which will give a long look through the living room, dining room, and then the kitchen.

Also, if you have a dog, get them to build in a doggy door. I'm trying to work one into our new back kitchen wall, which butts against the deck.

Lovely rooms above.
Don't care much for all that dark wood in the above post, nor do I like the cavernous cathedral ceiling. Maybe if it had some horizontal beams to give a lowered look to it? With posts to make it more "human scale."

I'll see if I can find one of her books. Our library is slim on new decorating books but I'll check our only book store - Hastings.

Good. Marti, I will give it a rest once I know you've been exposed to Susanka's design philosophy, because some of the ideas you like happen to be right in line with her recommendations. It will help get you and your DH on the same page about what plan to make for your house.

One question: Is your DH as distressed by the house as you are? Does he know how you feel, and for what reasons? (Well that is 2 questions plus another half, but hard to stop sometimes.) :)

Are you kidding? He could live in the shed if there was a recliner, tv, bed and coffee pot.

LOL @ Marti. I know the feeling. Thankfully my husband finally understood the importance of a house working for me to be more comfortable for both of us. Weather in appearance or attitude. That would be attitude from me.
Hehehehehe