Having been single for a long time, I've noticed that I'm much happier alone than I am with someone whose behavior or attitude causes me pain, anxiety, and/or hurt feelings.

I used to think that people undoubtedly didn't realize how hurtful their behavior was, and that I could reason with them, & they would "see the light" & change hurtful behavior.

I no longer think that.

I now think that people who do hurtful things do them because *they enjoy it*.

Every one of them that I've encountered has rationalized the hurtful behavior, psycho-analyzed me for my problem with accepting the behavior, & continued, even more aggressively (since they now had a point to prove), to behave in the hurtful manner.

It'as though I would say, "Oh, excuse me, would you please remove your fist from my face? It causes me pain."

A person who has his/her fist in your face (& who hasn't already removed it & apologized like a decent human being) is likely to reply, "You got a problem with my fist??? I can't believe what I'm hearing! You need to adjust to the fact that I'll put my fist where I want, & you have to take responsibility for staying out of the way. I have every right to...blah blah blah. and why do you think you have the right to get in my way & then expect me to fix it for you? I'm entitled to be where I am. You just can't bear for a man to have freedom. You want to put chains on him, you want to own him. No wonder you haven't had a successful relationship."

(I can predict that "I have every right", "I'm entitled", & "you haven't had etc" almost to the split second!)

If he was objectifying women 12 years ago and throwing it in your face, I'll bet that 40 years from now he'll leeringly tell his girlfriend when he gets a glimpse of bosom as some young girl in a white uniform leans over to spoon gruel into his ancient drooling mouth.

Take care of yourself,
take up for yourself,
& if something isn't working, do something else.

Best thoughts,

sylvia

I'm not a man, so I won't try to explain why men do that, but I will say it's not something that's ever bothered me.

I am an attractive, intelligent person. However, I'm neither as attractive as (say) Angelina Jolie nor as intelligent as (say) Albert Einstien. I'm aware of this, and, as nice as it might be to be stunningly beautiful and mind-blowingly intelligent, I've somehow come to terms with who I actually am. Anyway, some other woman's cute ass doesn't make mine any less attractive, any more than someone else's quick wit makes me any less intelligent. I mean, you don't expect him to not notice the attractive movie star or the neighbor's big chest, right? And the fact that there are hot movie stars in the world isn't some big secret, and doesn't make you less hot, does it? So, he's aware of what other women look like. He doesn't feel the need to pretend he's not. Is that really a bad thing?

If it really bothers you, tell him. If you've told him it hurts you, and he doesn't care, that's a problem. I do think "why does it bother you" would be a legitmate question and one you might want to think about the answer to, but the bottom line is, someone who cares about you is going to avoid hurting you if possible. But, if you haven't told him it bothers you, I would read exactly nothing into his behavior.

Nice to get opposing points of view. I've wavered between both those conclusions. Why continue doing something I've said I don't like VS. What does it matter.

I am a very level-headed type. I don't rant-and-rave, or pout. But I do I like it better when a man doesn't give me a review of another woman's attributes. It's like the lyrics of that song for me(Carly Simon?).."Why'd you tell me this? Were you looking for my reaction?"

No one's so extremely self-confident to never be made to feel insecure in a romantic relationship. Elizabeth Taylor's been insecure. Brad Pitt's been insecure. It's natural.

Not looking for new beau to change, or even trying to make him change. Several years ago I did see a man who did this type of thing early on in the relationship. I told him I did not like it. He did it one more time, it caused me to withdraw and shut-down emotionally. He noticed my change and he stopped that behaviour. Our relationship flourished for four years after that and I was always appreciative that he cared enough to stop. I've also thought about an extremely handsome beau I once had. He NEVER talked about other women although I know women threw themselves at him everyday. We got along splendidly. So, with this current guy, over time, it's a deal-breaker because it upsets my sense of emotional security. To be clear, I have told him. I'm now handling it with humor, by saying "Don't tell me, because I know you will". The latest was last Saturday; he was playing at a private gig (no friends allowed) but another band member was trying to invite a woman who was interested in getting to know my beau. My beau tells me this. I say "don't tell me any more about this, OK?" Beau gets defensive saying "It's not me. It's Jim who's trying to bring her. I had nothing to do with this. I dont even know her!"

I don't know. It's difficult to beleive that he's not aware of the insecurity issue this causes. But we are all different, aren't we.

It wasn't clear in your first post that you've already told him it bothers you. That changes my opinion quite a bit, although I'd still say it's maybe worth finding out why before writing him off.

I can think of half a dozen reasons off the top of my head, ranging from completely benign (you've been friends for so long, he just feels so comfortable talking to you, it's hard for him to remember now to censor himself), to total jackass (he enjoys the ego-rush of making you feel jealous and doesn't really care that he hurts you in the process), to I-can-see-both-sides (while he's not specifically doing it to hurt you, he also doesn't really want to be in relationship where he *has* to censor himself and is hoping you'll decide you can live with it).

And also make sure he understands it's a real problem for you, not just an annoyance; we all do things that annoy someone, and don't necessarily feel the need to change our habits every time someone points them out.

It's insensitive. Plain and simple. And continuing to do so after you let him know (he should know this anyway) is mean spirited. Implicit intention is really the key here. There is a great deal communicated between couples that isn't stated directly. I'm sure you sense that his intent isn't all that kind toward you. I don't mind someone commenting on the physical beauty of another woman but I can sense easily if it is stated as an unkind comparison. Intent is everything.

Good stuff here - absolutely great stuff - and thank you for sharing. I have also been single for a very long time, and just reading about some of that rude behavior makes my skin crawl. It isn't just the love interest who can do this - but as one rather well known public person says "we teach people how to treat us" ...... I take that to heart when I have asked gal pals to NOT do something and they keep it up, inspite of my request for respect. I can chose to stick w/ the abusive person - or vote w/ my feet. It all depends upon the price I am willing to pay, and what currency is demanded.

Thanks again .............. Vicki

And.....no wonder you are single!
Who would ever want to become involved with someone who takes every remark as a personal affront?
I agree with Cube's first remarks....
So you said it bothers you that he remarks about the good looks of another woman??? And he still does it?
Seems like he is purposly doing it to pi$$ you off.....and enjoying doing it!
Perhaps you best tell him sayonara and look for someone who won't ever tell you he notices how nice another woman looks....nor how nice you look either.
Linda C

You know, I've always said "you shouldn't go back" - meaning if a relationship did not work the first time, it won't work a second time. I had a feeling I'd be learning that lesson all over again - and I have. Still seeing "old beau", but being reminded each time we meet why we did not make it the first time. Last Saturday he insulted me by saying I was "just like" a co-worker he hates. In particular, we were talking about Bob Newhart and I said how much I like Bob's dry humor and that I'd marry Bob. He said "My co-worker likes that stupid dry humor...nobody ever gets what Willie (the co-worker) says. You'd probably really like Willie, you're just like him". I called him on it, saying "You're insulting me. Didn't you tell me Willie says some very cruel things?" He said nothing. Then I said to beau that I realize we don't like the same type of humor or the same types of entertainment, but we did have other things in common.

What I now realize (and kinda knew) is that I have very little in common with beau on a mental level but I always thought his love-making was better than average. But if it wasn't for his skill in the sack (which isn't the best but it is better than average) I would not be seeing him at all. But then I think, isn't that what men do? Some of them,anyway? I mean, nobody tells a sophisticated man who dates a young airhead woman that he should look for a better match. I'm not in love; I don't think Beau is in love. I'd like this relationship to hover in the "friendly sex partners" area, but Beau does get nasty sometimes.

Friends with benefits

I must have missed something...

I didn't read anything that sounded like anyone was taking every remark as a personal affront.

and I don't think being single is a negative status:
"No wonder you're single" is an odd remark to post on a singles forum.

"Beau does get nasty sometimes".

Every moment that we spend with someone whose next remark may throw us off balance or hurt us is a moment we could have spent...some other way.

and every moment that we spend with such a person is a moment in which we won't notice a perhaps more enjoyable person passing through.

Best luck, & take care of yourself.

Actually, I think people do tell sophisticated men dating young airheads that they could find a better match--it's just that the men don't listen.

Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with "friendly and the sex is good but there's no future". In fact, if you are in a place in life where you're not really looking for a relationship, it can be an ideal situation. On the other hand, nasty is not something I'm particularly inclined to tolerate in friends-- with or without benefits.

Now, see, insulting my sense of humor I would be much more upset about that pointing out other women's physical attributes. I think that makes me weird?

It's not the sense of humor specifically. I guess it's just that's it's a part of my personality. Of course I want someone I'm dating to find me physically attractive, but I think it's more important that he actually like me as a person, so I think I'm more sensitive to perceived personality issues than physical issues. Or maybe I just *assume* anyone who's sleeping with me is attracted to me, but I'm less likely to assume "wants to have sex with me" equates with "likes me as a person"?

Cube- sounds to me like this guy is a real @ss! Being good in the sack does not make up for being a jerk. You could find someone who is a nice guy AND good in the sack. Why would you want to hang around a guy that insults you? You could do MUCH better. No, this is not what men do, at least not one I would ever hang around.

"likes having sex with me" does not equate to "likes me as a person"

Oh, man. You gave me real food for thought in those words. I'd like to blame this foundering relationship on Beau, but I am to blame for this one.

I don't like Beau as a person. I can easily name 5 things I don't like about him; I'm struggling to name one thing I admire about him - person-wise.

Why did I encourage this thing? Was I more in tune with my instincts 12 years ago? Did looming "eternal single-dom" finally put a scare into me - causing me to settle for what I can get?

I am tiring of always being the "single". I go to the movies alone, travel alone, dine alone, plan alone. Been doing the "alone" thing my whole adult life.

I think I'm suffering from acute singleness. It made Beau look good. Now I realize what I've liked about the last couple of months is feeling like I had a relationship. It's all about ME, how it made ME feel. Somebody calls me at work. On the weekends I can be with another person instead of alone. I can say "we". I can say "you know how men are" in a knowing manner. My coworkers noticed my increased private phone calls and gave me curious "seeing somebody?" questions. It felt good. Now I realize I don't like this man, didn't like this man before, and was making a conscious decision to try to get along with this man. Even worse is I ignored my inner voice that was saying "What are you doing???"

Currently I'm doing my guilt thing of buying him a nice Xmas gift to make up for the fact that the relationship moment has ended for me. And I would not be surprised to find that he does not like me anymore than I like him. Amazing - the capability to fool ourselves.

All a part of becoming wiser with experience. I know all about not wanting to go it alone any longer. It's easy to talk ourselves into believing something is better than it really is until it bites us on the backside. Being with someone should feel good and right. Isn't that the point?

Totally Awesome Thread!

WoW!

Cube, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with us!

Jean

I am reminded of an old joke about a father whose 10-year-old son was constantly pointing out the assets of women they encountered.

"Dad, check out that girlÂs butt!"
"Dad, have you ever seen nicer boobs that hers?"
"Dad, wouldnÂt you love to see whatÂs under that sweater?"

The father had had enough, so he sought and found help from a sexual therapist who guaranteed results in a single session. When the session was over, the boy and his dad headed home.

The bus pulled up to the stop, and when the door opened, a gorgeous redhead stepped down. She was amply endowed, and her undergarments allowed for a great amount of movement as she descended the bus steps.

The boy said nothing.

Behind the redhead, a beautiful brunette departed the bus. Her slacks were so tight they looked like they had been spray painted on. You could see every bulge and crease the woman had.

Again, the boy said nothing.

Next to depart was a blonde with legs all the way up to her shoulders. Her dress was so short that it was obvious she wore nothing under it. It was all the father could do to restrain himself.

The boy didnÂt even seem to notice her.

The father was elated. It was obvious his son was cured. He was grinning broadly as he boarded the bus with his son.

As the bus took off, the boy turned to his father and said, "Hey, Dad. Check out that bus driver. IsnÂt his butt fantastic?
Cube, if your guy starts pointing out physical attributes of other guys, then IÂd start to worry.

My point olphart....if he's looking at other women but goes home with you, that's no reason to worry....and when he stops looking, I'd call the undertaker.
When my DH would admire another woman.....I would say..."Look all you want but don't touch!"
Conversly I know someone who was fooling around on his wife for well more than a year.....but he never mentioned another woman's looks.....but he was taking frequent "business trips"...
Cube you better dump him and resign yourself to being alone, unless you want a man that doesn't admire women.

Let me throw this scenario into this discussion.

A wife/girlfriend continually comments about how much money other make, or things others possess, when her own husband/boyfriend makes considerably less and has fewer and far less nicer possessions. How would you compare that to a guy pointing out the physical assets of other women?

IN JEST!!

.... I would say what Jean says. Stop analyzing everything!

Oh,I never said to stop analyzing, I said maybe you could start with yourself.

Lindac, I don't think Cube was complaining that her guy admired other women, I think she was upset because he kept shoving it in her face!

Olphart, I think both are rude.

Jean

May as well throw my 2 cents in, but I think anyone who is compelled to comment on what they are seeing/hearing is insecure , has something to prove and you could look like Angelina Jolie with Einstein's brain and they would still feel insecure. And if you are ok with who you are , you don't really need that crap, let them go find a f***ing therapist . Trust me.

If you don't love the man you're with and he is the least bit on the ball he will eventually figure that out and it will probably make him insecure and also he'll get a bitter chip on his shoulder. No guy is going to say that his feelings are being hurt, but nastiness is often a symptom of just that in a man, I have found over the years. It doesn't excuse it but does offer a possible explanation for what you are experiencing. Don't get me started on "Friends with Benefits." In my experience with this phenomenon, it is a whole lot more about the benefits than the "friends." A true friend isn't in a relationship just for what benefits them, true friends love and respect each other. Otherwise it is just two people objectifying each other and themselves, IMHO. Again, just my take on it, just my .02. Yes, we like the idea of coupledom, but at what cost? It's such a sad irony.

Cube 1067,

I feel you, my last boyfriend all of a sudden after several years together started pointing out to me the attributes of other women, jealousey is something I just don't do, so I got him back by mentioning the attributes of other men and you guessed it; he stopped.

Flo

My sympathies to you, Cube...

yah, we all have a tendency to sell our souls to the devil for companionship, what the heck, that's how things work.. i think some men are encouraged by other men that this is cool way of talking.. (maybe to themselves, but they forgot we don't care to hear their editorial comments!)... my ex had a mild form of the same and he was SHOCKED that a colleague had gently ribbed him for being a sexist becuase he didn't think he was.... so if more guys would nudge each other to say "hey, that's NOT cool".. maybe it would happen less.. I get annoyed if I'm talking to a man and his eyes are roaming to every woman who is passing.... message I get is taht they are not listening to me... sometimes I will say something like "is everything ok? you seem distracted"... it's rude behavior.... a small amount of it, ok, i can also be distracted by things passing in the foreground, but it can get really distracting if you are trying to talk to someone who is totally distracted! The way I once handled a situation -- I had been told that if I was as pretty as this particular celebrity, then my guy would have bought me ten of the same type of cute baseball hat as she was wearing... I was shocked... I told him I expected the hat in the mail ASAP.... he never made another such remark again.. (it never worked out between us....and I don't feel bad about it).

It is one thing to say.. Angelina Jolie is attrative.. Another to say.. I like standing behind women to better see their a$$e$.. One is a simple statement.. One is super slimey scuzzy...

If he is crossing your line, and you don't like it, feel hurt by it all the time, and know that won't change in you.. And he knows it hurts you, won't change..... It is time to cut the strings...

Heya Phart.. :P

He's doing it to keep you at arm's length. Therefore, keep him at the distance he desires while looking for someone else.
Who needs a rude ******e in her life?? It is not worth analyzing. It's only worth avoiding.

If a man says that to a woman that he is in a relationship with or married too he is being very disrespectful. Men will do only what you allow them to do, so tell him to knock it off or go search for Queen Latifah and see if she will give him the time of day.