I admit I haven't read all the responses because I got tired of the judgemental and flame responses. I do have two thoughts. If, at all possible, create a small enclosure outside a doggie door so the dog can "go" at will. Yes, the door creates a loss of heat or cooling, but all pets are costly in some way. I would be concerned that on some days the dog, just like a human, may find it has to urinate more often than usual, even though they aren't ill. A thought about using piddle pads--if that is your solution it would be wise to get a female who doesn't lift a leg and urinate against something. You will probrbly have fewer "misses" that way. There is a TV show on TLC called "The Littel Couple". They are professional people who have a Boston Terrier that uses pads and he does sometimes overshoot the pad. I am a fierce dog and cat lover, active in rescue, and I have 4 Siberian huskies and 3 cats, all adopted rescues. I would never feel comfortable asking them to wait 9 hours between bathroom breaks. My dogs, who are always separated from the cats (Sibes have an enormous prey drive and I can't trust mine around cats), have a 24/7 doggie door to a fenced acre. This is what I have decided I HAVE to do in order to feel I am treating my pets well and I have chosen to budget accordingly. Responsible pet ownership is expensive, even for one dog or cat. I respect you for asking for suggestions prior to getting a dog. One last thought; I am retired and at 65 found that social security and Medicare represented a big decrease in available funds. I did plan for inflation, but I never realized how the present resession would strain my pet budget. I am committed to feeding only top quality food, the likes of which are never sold in a supermarket. All my animals are nutered and all are kept current on shots and at least annual physicals. Occasional illness or injury visits are unplanned expenses. I expect I will outlive my dogs, but the cats are young and have a long life expectancy. For that reason I have made arrangements for their care if anything happens to me.

Thanks for all the responses. My daughter loves her 5 dogs but she runs a business and is gone a good 10 hours a day. She does work close enough though to let the dogs out in midday. She is insisting she wants to take the dog back and I thought we could try it for a trial period and see if the dog is more content or not, then maybe if it doesn't work out she will be more receptive to finding a home for her. I hate to do this to the dog but she has seperation anxiety and even if I leave her to run an errand she barks the whole time according to the neighbors. I started crating her when I am gone for short periods, but I just couldn't crate her all day 5 days a week. I am hoping the pack instinct is satisfied with the company of the 5 dogs, but I don't know because she loves people so much. I thought the only other solution is to get another dog for her but I just can't afford the upkeep to take good care of them with grooming and all the other expenses. I do know of a wonderful vet to contact if this trial period does not work out. Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it!!!!

Your statements are so ethologically incorrect that it's laughable. Everyone, apparently, is an expert. The different between what I go by and what Handymac goes by is everything I write can be sourced and backed up by up-to-date research and is covered in ethological journals and other publications, while Handymac has either watched a television show or two, or has been reading some very outdated information. Think the 80's or by similarly uniformed self proclaimed experts. I don't see what foxes, or wolves, have to do with this woman's dog. I don't see anyone telling this woman to treat her dog like a human, nor did I see this woman indicate that that was what she was doing. So where's the relevance of this statement?? Domestic dogs do NOT form packs. They do have social structure but not packs. Ethologists have studied feral populations of domestic dogs around the world and have found that they form loose, shifting groups of small numbers, usually 2-3 individuals and they only come together in large numbers over communal resources, such as garbage heaps and sources of water, then they disperse again. They were not found to hunt, rear young and protect a communal territory as a stable group. Boitani, Francisci, Ciucci, and Andreoli, (1995) Which is the ethological definition of a pack. Domestic dogs do not participate in organized hunting, where each takes up a different job. At best, they hunt individually or in chaotic en-mass but not in different roles comprising an organized hunt like wolves, lions, painted dogs, and other social undomesticated predators do. It is VERY rare for males and previous offspring to participate in rearing young. And females are found to mate with several males during a single heat cycle. As stated before, loose, shifting groups of few members don't compose a stable group, nor do they protect territories when they congregate in large numbers to utilize a resource and then disperse again. Forcing dogs to live together in our homes or backyards does not constitute a stable group or pack. Nor are dogs such dumb beasts that they perceive us to be dogs. No. Even if they did form packs, they don't think that we're fellow dogs, or vise versa. They are well aware that were are different animals. How in the world is training a lab to point or a whippet to fetch dangerous??? Gads! My poodle is my service dog when that job has traditionally been filled by labs. She must be some kind of dangerous monster! There are no wild pack conditions for DOMESTIC dogs. There are FERAL conditions and as stated, they do not form packs. The human is obviously the boss at feeding time since the human buys the food and has the opposable thumbs to dish it out. Do you have some kind of ego issues? You seem very concerned that we're all very aware how much in charge you are and that you're the boss! Good for you? Being that dogs were domesticated and almost every breed was developed to serve mankind, is that supposed to be some kind of rare feat or come as a surprise that dogs look to us for direction? The dominant dog? The submissive dog? Dominant and submissive in regards to what resource?? Dominant and submissive are NOT personalities traits! How are you allowing your dog to become "too dominant" and how are you dominant over your dog?? You clearly don't understand the concept of social dominance. An animal can only be dominant in regards to a valued resource. Food, mates, safe and comfortable resting places, etc. And even this changes from resource to resource, day to day, and from method to method. Fluffy dominates Spot by shoving Spot out of the way when it comes to treat time. While later in the day, Spot snarls at Fluffy and wins the preferred resting spot. Tomorrow they switch as each resource changes in importance. Next week, the new puppy wins the rawhide by licking at Fluffy's mouth to get her to give it up. Regarding packs: http://www.associationofanimalbehaviorprofessionals.com/glossary.html http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm http://www.kathysdao.com/articles/Forget_About_Being_Alpha_in_Your_Pack.html http://4pawsu.com/pmdominance.htm http://www.jeandonaldson.com/jeans-blog-mainmenu-51/64-are-dogs-pack-animals The links go on and on, you can find many more by Googling. Find out what social dominance is and what it isn't: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201202/social-dominance-is-not-myth-wolves-dogs-and http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/?/dominance.php Again, there are just too many articles and other material addressing these two topics for me to list everyone here. They are all easily found on your own. No REAL behaviorist will insist that dogs form packs and that dominance or submission are personality traits. REAL behaviorists are those with the behavioral science degree to BACK UP the title Behaviorist. There are Veterinary Behaviorists, Clinical Applied Animal Behaviorists, Associate Clinical Applied Animal Behaviorists, and that's it. A person CAN up and hang a shingle calling them self a behaviorist but unless they have that degree, they're not a behaviorist.

I am not sure why this is such an emotionally charged and controversial topic... I guess it has to do with people's not liking others telling them what to do, no matter the risks. It is also amazing how many 'facts' there are stating exactly the opposite things. If one searches hard enough one can find the facts to support their position, even if its completely the opposite of the other side of the argument. It's as bad as politics. It basically comes down to there being no perfect answer no matter which argument you side with. All you can do is what makes the most sense to you once you have 'learned' as much as you can and have some or lots of actual hands-on experience, either raising dogs or helping them with their illnesses. I am not a researcher or in a position to spew facts based on my own research, but I can at least make conclusions from years of working under various situations (shelter, rescue groups, large practices and small, individual practices) of 27 years as a veterinarian. The opinions I have formulated are not necessarily strictly scientific nor are they based on statistics... they are strictly opinions based on observations... no hard facts or numbers. However, coming from that background, most politically active dog breeders and others with other less clear agendas will automatically disregard anything I say as highly biased (and theirs aren't?) and self serving. I have never worked for myself and my earnings have never been based on the amount of revenue I bring in (as much as some employers have tried to make it so) and I gain nothing from either spaying or neutering dogs, or from removing their mammary tumors later in life, other than the satisfaction of having saved a pet here and there and relieved some of their pain and discomfort. It is part of the job, one which I have grown to like just because I am good at it... but I get no satisfaction at seeing old dogs that have been spayed have urinary incontinence issues any more than I have at seeing old intact females with malignant mammary cancer. I feel for all these pets that have problems and do my best to take care of their problems as they arise. As for the down sides of spaying dogs, I cannot add much to either argument except for the mammary tumor one. Having worked at rescue practice for over 6 years and seen thousands of old dogs that desperately needed homes, it was striking to see how many unsprayed ones indeed had mammary tumors (unfortunately we were not in a position financially to biopsy any of these tumors so I have little feeling for how many were malignant or benign unless they happened to grow right back or the dogs subsequently died of metastatic disease). But in my opinion any tumor is best not to have if it were a choice of having one or not. I did end up removing most of these dog's tumors and spaying them at the same time. Though I cannot say exactly since I did not count, at least a third of these unsprayed older dogs had one form of mammary cancer or another. I did not see a single spayed dog with a mammary tumor on the other hand. So I can at least say with some confidence that if you want your pet dog to not develop mammary cancer, it would be best to spay it. The earlier dogs are spayed the less likely they will be to develop these tumors, too, though I could not say from my personal experience at what age you wait until, that the odds get as high as one out of three. My 'feeling' is that is is somewhere in middle age, but I cannot back that up with numbers or facts. As to other problems associated with not spaying dogs (nothing to do with what age one spays them) I did a LOT of pyometra surgeries at this practice as well as the practice I work at now which is a community that is not exactly swimming in money, so many people do not get their dogs spayed. Pyometra, or infected uterus, is a commonly fatal disease that sometimes will kill pets even if you get the surgery done (just too late sometimes- the infection has gone too far). I would say that pyometras are a lot less common than mammary tumors, but their occurrence is more tragic as without immediate treatment, most dogs die (over 95%)... while mammary tumors that are not removed can often be ignored and may never end up killing the dog as long as they don't get too large or spread. So there is less a need of urgency with those. Still, those are two relatively common diseases that are nearly 100% preventable from spaying. On top of these are the dystocia emergencies I see all the time now in my emergency practice. Most of these pregnant dogs that are now in crisis are results of 'accidental' breeding (at least that is the most common situation presented by their owners and I have no specific reason not to believe them all, though I seriously doubt all of them are telling the truth). This is another avoidable situation that often ends tragically (if not for the mother, who can at least be spayed then) often for the puppies who have died in the process of not being able to be born properly. It gets very sad sometimes to work emergency. As far as the down sides to spaying and neutering dogs, I have seen plenty of female dogs with mild to moderate cases of urinary incontinence. This is an 'annoying' disease, and often uncomfortable if not treated (for both dog and owner) and I certainly would not wish it on any dog (or person). But I have yet to see a single dog die of this condition, nor one not respond to rather inexpensive medication. Sure I would like it for these pets to not have this problem, but I would gladly chose this over any of the above situations. As for all the other reasons for not spaying dogs, I have seen very few of these 'problems' in private practice. I have never seen a 'stunted' dog from a spay or neuter... though I have seen pit bulls and rotweillers that were neutered before a year of age have more slender builds (normal size and normal health)- most notable is these male dogs do not have the massive skulls and facial musculature of their unneutered counterparts. Though a massive head on some of these dogs is 'cool' sometimes, I do not know if that is enough of advantage to not neuter them. However, when it comes to neutering males, I do see few medical advantages... some behavioral advantages come to mind, but not too many medical ones (prostatitis is the major one I can think of right off, but this is not a super common condition anyway- not at least like mammary tumors or pyometras are in female dogs). Back to the original question on this old thread- when is the right time to spay a dog? Since in my practices I do not get to follow too many dogs their entire lives, I cannot make too many conclusions about what early spay and neuter do to dogs. I have done my share of these, though I personally don't like to do these surgeries before 6 months, but no other reason than I find them easier surgeries at that age. I have not seen any long term problems in the few dogs that I have been able to keep up with, other than urinary incontinence in some female dogs (in my unscientific observations, I would say about 1 out of 30 female spayed dogs develop this problem and age of spay seems to make no difference, at least when done early. I have not seen an older spayed dog (over 5) develop this problem after a spay... but by that age I do see lots of other problems from NOT being spayed showing up... When I see unspayed dogs in practice I do mention the above observations of mine... once... if the owners are not receptive to these comments I do not mention it again. Changing some people's minds about potential sensitive issues like this is like trying to change their political or religious views and that is certainly not my job or business. I still do my best to treat all the dogs and cats I see no matter what choices their owners have made ,and try as much as possible not to make owners feel bad about their choices, unless they border on negligence or cruelty (thankfully these are rare situations). Just an opinion... and only based on personal experience. Feel free to rail on me all you like. I just felt I had to say something.