bouncingpig,

I wish I could make comments to my husband in the store, but I cannot allow him near the store. He is horrible about impulse buys. Several months ago, I was very sick and passing out whenever I stood up (pregnancy-related). I had no choice but to send him to the store. I gave him a detailed list including where each item was located and the price of each item. It was an easy list to follow, sort of a "Shopping For Dummies" type thing. The trip should have cost about $32. I alloted $50 for that week (but didn't tell him).

He came home grinning ear to ear, proud as punch. He said, "I did very well. I only got one treat. Everything else was healthy stuff." The bill? $111.50. There is a reason I do the shopping.

I have put off going to Sam's Club now for a while. I have to go. I just have to figure out how I am going to get a 50-lb bag of sugar onto my cart when I am 7 months pregnant. I will have the baby before I find a sales person. My husband offered to go for me. No, thank you.

Polkadot, I can totally relate. I have been "training" my husband for years, but I rarely let him venture out on his own! LOL! He is starting to catch on to price comparison and realizing that the size of the package makes a difference (Duh?!) I went through that with my pregnancies where I couldn't stand for any length of time without starting to pass out, so I totally feel for you. Hard to understand how a baby in the tummy can make you light headed! Three babies later, thank goodness I am done! Thanks for your lighthearted post! I wish it could have stayed that way.

Brenda

One thing I've noticed over the years is that the people who are really the most "frugal" are people for whom it is basically just a sport. They don't need the money. And it's not true that "being frugal is what made it so they don't have to be frugal." No way. A person who is making a low income can't become wealthy by being frugal.

I've seen members of my own family sit in hotbox-like houses because they are too frugal to turn on the air conditioner. I see people who are obviously well off questioning 25 cent charges on their cash register receipts, holding up an entire line of people to do it.

The bottom line is, it's fine to be frugal, but I hope the frugal people are saving their money for something they'll enjoy in the future. Those who die mean, poor misers usually wind up leaving all that money to people who will blow it in short order, and all that frugality will have come to absolutely nothing.

Ken

Ken,
I'll admit, being frugal has become a sport for me. We could spend, spend, spend and get by just fine (though our long term goals - a big piece of property in the country, a log home, travel - would have taken a LOT longer to acheive). But we truly enjoy pinching pennies, and to be honest, if we end up with a stock pile of money when we die, I'm not too concerned with how it's spent. It wouldn't have been "for nothing", to me. (Of course, I'd leave it to a few very good charities, not to my children--they will benefit much greater from working hard and saving their OWN money). But it really is alot of fun.

For me, being a 'checkout snob' sometimes has more to do with getting my batteries recharged when I have the rare impulse to pay for something ridiculous. (And yes, i do think Hot Pockets are ridiculously expensive. Convenience is not worth that much money to me. I don't care if YOU buy them, maybe the convenience is worth it for you. But I am going to smile to myself in realizing I am saving a good $10 or more by making homemade ones, in under 10 minutes. Perhaps if I made $60 an hour, almost every hour of the day, it would be worthwhile for me to buy them. But since it's not (and since it's NOT for the average american, if they are thinking in strictly money terms), I will pocket my $10 happily.

The truth is that there are many, many women out there who think they can't survive on one income and raise a family. Even if you stood next to them in the grocery store and showed them that Hot Pockets were one of the things standing in their way, most of them would just say "Oh that's too much trouble". Is it wrong for me to smile to myself because I am willing to be extreme to meet my goals? Is it wrong for me to smile to myself, because I realize that if I tried to help many of them, they'd just give me a funny look and grab another box?

If it is, then i've got my one-way ticket to Hell :)

Ken that last message wasn't directed just towards you! :)
Oh yeah, and I do have a computer (it is a very old one, a gift) but it's at home, unplugged. I use the computers and internet at the library. We don't pay for a phone line at all, or DSL, and I never use my computer at home because it costs money (electricity). Why pay for it when the library has it for free a few blocks away? Yeah, i'm cheap. hehe

Ruhbeka - I'd be interested in your Hot Pocket recipe. I do admit that I'm guilty of buying those on occasion - usually on sale for $1.88 a box and I usually have a coupon so that knocks them down to approx $1.50 a box. DH takes his lunch and he gets tired of sandwiches so I do buy these for him. Our favorite are the lean chicken/cheese/brocolli ones. I make a homemade version of hot pockets using crescent rolls and leftover chicken. But by the time I take into consideration the cost of chicken, broccoli, cheese and the crescent rolls, I estimate these would still cost about the same per serving as the Hot Pockets and it didn't take time to make them.

I'm not sure how ruhbehka does them, but I just make homemade biscuit dough, which is so cheap and easy. Then I use what I have around, cheese and ham, pepperoni, whatever! They take a little longer to bake than a biscuit because of the liquid in the cheese, but I just watch them until they are golden color. Hope this helps. If ruhbehka has a better way, please let me know. I'm all for simple!

Brenda

Hot Pockets aren't too bad, but when I have had them, I have wanted to eat 2 or 3 of them, and then even at a discounted price they do not make for a cheap meal. Plus, if you look at the fat and calories data on the box, 3 Hot Pockets does not make a really nutritious or healthy meal, either.

But, Ruhbehka, when you say that using a computer at home costs too much in electricity, I think you are going overboard. The average computer today uses only the same amount of power as a 100 watt light bulb. So even if you pay relatively high electric rates, you are only talking A PENNY AN HOUR to use a computer. However, if you like to save electricity, as well as light bulb replacement expenses, I hope you have changed all of your high-use light bulbs over to compact fluorescents. These use a fourth the power as standard incandescent bulbs of the same brightness.

To me, people waste a lot more money on things that have become "necessities" than they do spending a nickel here and a dime there on Hot Pockets and similar convenience foods. When I look at the kinds of things people throw away -- perfectly good appliances, clothes, etc. -- just to get new ones, that strikes me as a bigger waste, not just of money but of resources, than spending a few dollars more at the grocery store. Also, have you noticed that when people move into a house these days, NOTHING is good enough. This carpet is the wrong shade, etc., and all kinds of perfectly good stuff gets pitched.

Everything is just a matter of priorities, but sometimes it seems that some people spend a lot of time trying to save money in one area, while they pour it down the drain in another.

Ken

Hot Pockets- i just use a variety of doughs (whatever i have leftover from something else, biscuits, rolls, bread, pie crust, pizza dough, etc.) and fill it with leftover chicken or ham (anything from lunch meat to leftovers from baked chicken, baked turkey, whatever, purchased on sale), leftover veggies (or veggies people have given us that we hate to eat (like brocolli), and a cheese sauce (white sauce, "cheese variation" usually). I've never figured the exact cost of them, because of course it varies, but it definately doesn't come near $1 a piece. The best way to save money on them is to use them for leftovers, and also to use cheese sauce instead of straight cheese. I make the cheese sauce with whatever leftover scraps we have on hand at the time. Plus it gives that nice 'oozy' cheese like a storebought one. Also when i make a pizza, I make extra dough and fill it with tomato sauce and little chopped veggies or meats plus a little cheese. It's my favorite way to use up any leftover anything, even just a tablespoon of this or that. Just toss it in the freezer til I have time to tend to it. Another thing I like to do is make a double meatloaf, whenever i make it, and bake the second batch in muffin tins. Then freeze them in a freezer bag. That makes a great lunch to pop in the microwave on a busy day.

Ken... can you tell me more about flourescent bulbs? Are those the long and funny shaped ones they sell at Ikea that are supposed to last a very long time? Do they really pay for themselves? We use only four lightbulbs in our apartment (there are more that that, but we only use those four), and we have about eight incandescants that came with the apartment. Would it be cost effective to buy new flourescants? How much do they run? I didn't know they saved electricity, I thought they just lasted longer. We're starting container gardening this month, would it affect that? As for the computer, it's not really a bother, and I walk to the library so it doesn't cost anything. I know it's only a few pennies but every penny does count. We really try not to waste money in any form (large or small), though admittedly I do struggle with chocolate! That's one of the only things in our budget that I know of to cut, I do buy a bag of chocolate chips about once a month. But i'm resisting giving them up!! hehe.

But you're right about how people try to save save save in one area and then toss money away in others. We really try to watch ourselves and make sure we don't do that... recently we decided to quit spending our Sundays driving. It probably sounds funny, but it's the only entertainment we really paid for, gas in the car, and we'd just drive around, look at the mountains, etc. But we realized it was costly and there are plenty of free things we could enjoy just as well. A small leak can sink a ship, etc.

Boy don't any of you get behind me at the checkout! I buy Lean Cuisines a lot and I will give up diet Pepsis only when they pry them out of my stiff fingers to lower me into my casket. I am usually on a diet and since only one of us is home at lunch I heat up a Lean cuisine (always bought on sale) and it is one meal I don't need to measure anything or count the calories (already done). I hope the savings I do in other areas makes up for these splurges and if I had kids I would do more bulk cooking. We do not keep snacks in the house (did you ever think how much it costs to produce a bag of potato chips?) and save that way and I haven't bought a brand new shirt in years. All my furniture came from yard sales and thrift shops and even my kitchen cabinets were seconds that were hauled to auction. We do buy new electronics though - after learning that used ones were usually someone's junk far too many times to count. You just need to do what is important to you. Kathy_PA

LOL, Kathy! I might join you in a Pepsi as soon as I finish off the 100 bottles of American Fare "peach soda" I got at Kmart last winter for 10 cents each! Only 9 more to go!

I guess I'm only a checkout snob when I see people using food stamps and buying junk food. Our state has a list of foods posted that you are allowed to use the stamps for. So if they need the stamps, how can they afford to waste money on expensive garbage snack food?

Karen

Ruhbehka, YES, compact fluorescents (CFLs) save lots of energy. A 25 watt CFL puts out the same light as a 100 watt standard incandescent bulb. Yes, they probably are the funny shaped ones you have seen at Ikea. They usually consist of a white base with one, two, or three small fluorescent tubes permanently mounted to it, but there are some different shapes, such as some which are shaped in a swirl kind of like a soft-serve ice cream cone. The best ones are the GE and Phillips, and they are available many places, so shop around for the best price -- but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on that tip. I can usually find the GE or Phillips ones on sale for $6.99 to $9.99 apiece, and that is for a bulb that lasts 10,000 hours versus 750 to 1000 for a standard bulb.

Assuming the four bulbs you use are now 100 watts apiece, and you replace those with 25 watt CFLs, you would save about 19 cents a day -- $5.70 a month -- by going with CFLs instead of standard bulbs. That's assuming you pay about 9 cents per kilowatt hour for power, and that each bulb is operated roughly 7 hours per day.

It does not pay to use CFLs in locations such as closets where the light is usually turned on for a short time and then turned off. This will shorten the life of a CFL enough that it probably would no longer ever pay for itself. Plus, if you don't use the bulb very many hours it uses very little total energy anyhow, so there is little opportunity to save energy with a CFL.

I do not know how CFLs would affect plants; I am pretty confident that they would not harm them, however. I have some houseplants that have been in rooms where I've been using CFLs for the last five or so years, and they have continued to grow as normal.

On your statement about saving gasoline money by not going to see beautiful sights, doesn't that seem more like you're just punishing yourself rather than genuinely looking for a legitimate way to save money? What's the point of working if you can't spend a little for some small pleasures? Unfortunately, none of us can be so certain of the future that we put off all enjoyment until some future date.

Ken

Ken,
I talked to my husband about the bulbs, and apparently he already knew about it. :) He was planning to replace ours as they burnt out, since we use 1 bulb about 2 hours a day, 1 about 1 hour, and two roughly 4 hours a day. So I guess it would save us about 5 cents per day, by your calculations, or $1.50 per month. I think he's assuming it would be better to use the bulbs we have, then replace them as they die out with the new kind. Hmm... guess you learn something new every day.
As for the mountains, when I said we would save on gas by not driving all over every weekend... now we will just either find something fun to do at home (like learning to garden indoors, the latest money saving crazy idea of mine), or drive somewhere close and bring a picnic, and stay there for the day. We used to just drive and drive and drive, or drive to a city like Boston (5 hours) and drive around looking at things. This was cheap entertainment, compared to other things, but it's just as fulfilling to drive to one nearby place and sit and talk and look around instead of driving miles and miles and looking around. Phew! That was a horrible explanation, sorry. :)

Okay, but it still sounds like you need to live a little, Ruhbehka. Good therapy for you and your husband would be to take like $100 apiece to Atlantic City and just see what happens. I assume you live in the Northern Hemisphere, since Boston is a 5 hour drive, and here it is the shortest day of the year, and you say you are using 11 total bulb/hours of lighting in your entire home? COME ON. What do you do, read by kerosene lanterns? The longest running bulbs you have go 4 hrs. a day, and here in Indiana it gets dark by about 5:00 p.m. now -- at least dark enough to need inside lighting. So that means you go to bed by 9:00 every night? It just sounds too much like Oliver Twist to me.

I'm serious, go to Atlantic City. If not that, do something really stupid with a little bit of money. You need it.

Ken

It bothers me when the woman on public assistance drives a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder with leather interior, owns a home and She and DH own their own (successful) business. Some how we are often in the grocery store or doctor's office at the same time and I get to see the foodstamps or medicaid being whipped out. ABUSE of public assistance really bothers me.

I think it bothers everyone. There is obviously fraud taking place in that situation. I know people who get food stamps, and here they check out the year and make of car a person drives, as well as income and many other things. This is to prevent a person from earning a pile of money "off the books" and living like a king while claiming poverty because they do not have much if any actual reported income.

Ken

If you don't mind, I'll throw my 2 cents worth in. I am a working single mom, I watch every penny, cook mostly from scratch, walk to work when it is nice, sew my own cloths, the list goes on and on. I do it so I can afford to keep my kids in the sports programs they are in. I volunteer to work a lot of the Bingo fund raisers to raise moneys for these organizations. Many of them provide sponsorships that help pay to keep my kids involved, so I do not mind providing the manpower.

it does not matter what night of the week I volunteer, I see the same people playing. They will easily spend
$50 or more a night. They smoke, eat their meals at the Bingo hall, put their kids in the daycare there and feed them a hot dog and pop for dinner. I try and reserve judgement on them.

But the store next to where I work is where the Christmas Hampers are distributed from to the needy. The same people who are spending their money playing Bingo every night are the same ones who are in the line up for the hand out. Don't get me wrong, there are lots who don't and are in the line as well. The ones who blow their money on gaming and yet want us to support them are the ones to whom I feel myself becoming snobbish toward.

As for the ones in the checkout line ups, I could care less what is in their buggy. We don't use food stamps here, so you don't know who is on assistance. The social services feel it is degrading for the people on assistance to have to use them. They get a cheque that they can spend anyway they like. I jsut wish we could go back to stamps, so they have to spend their money on what it was intended for, not to blow gambling. Just my opinion.

Rose

I'm not sure that you could save much, if any, money by indoor gardening. It is worthwhile to grow a few pot herbs indoors. A lot of them will grow well enough in a sunny window, and it certainly is expensive to buy fresh herbs in the store. Almost anything else, though, requires too much light. A lot of people do it as a hobby (hydroponic tomatoes, for example), but I 'm sure it cost them more to do that than it would to buy fresh seasonal produce from a farmers' market and can or freeze it.

How well indoor gardening works for you depends on the light and space situation in your apartment and on the balcony/roof. Unless you live in a dungeon, the amount of light needed is available in an average apartment. Plant placement is vital and mirrors can help. There are many books on the subject, and they can usually be found in any decent library. They will tell you the pot size requirements and light requirements for each crop. When I lived in an apartment, I was able to do it successfully. Now I live on a farm so I have all of outdoors.

Did you actually grow eatable fruits or vegatables indoors? If so, I'd be curious to know what kinds.

Yes, cukes, yellow squash, beans, etc.

Wow! I'm very impressed. I had no idea that was possible.

A lot of people grow citrus and berries, too. There are a variety of dwarf citrus and apple trees available. Pretty much any vegetable can be grown inside. I wouldn't recommend tomatoes if you keep your home at 60 degrees. It just takes research. Cherry tomatoes are nice in a hanging basket.

I once did have a minature orange tree that actually produced tiny oranges. Not worth eating, of course, but a lot of fun.

But do any of these inside veggie plants really produce enough to reduce your grocery budget? Or are they more in the nature of decorative plants? And what about the cost of doing it -- extra lighting, fertilizer, etc?

Speaking of food stamps, does anyone know about this, I have a close relative living in California. She is 71 years old, her only income is a very small social security check to which the state of California adds a an amount to bring the total up to around $700 per month. Out of this sole income, she pays 400 per month rent and also pays electric, gas and telephone plus credit card bills. She has had to use the credit card because her small income doesn't cover her monthly expenses. She tells me that she is not eligible for food stamps because she gets the extra money over social security from the state. It would look like to me that since she has to get the extra from CA to have enough to barely get by, that she would be eligible for food stamps.

No, no checkout snob here! We don't buy any pre-packaged convenience foods because of the fat/cholesterol/sodium content.

I must admit, however, to trying to hint around to my overweight sister-in-law that she would be MUCH healthier if she cooked chicken FROM a chicken and not from a BOX....

It's kind of funny because my husband and I were laughing over the SIL's Thanksgiving dinner: she purchased a pre-cooked dinner for $50 when we figured our entire dinner (with ample leftovers) cost about $6. (Gee, and they always wonder why they have no money....LOL)

on an aside: sometimes low-income folks leave possessions behind when they move because it's actually more expensive to take it--they'd need a moving van or something, sometimes, so they leave sofas, etc.

It's one of the costs of being borderline poor.

Ywp, I'm a 'checkout snob'. Little irritants like better cuts of meat and more snacks didn't irritate me. The BIG one came when I was in back of 2 guys.

One had a basket full of beer. I Mean a BASKET FULL. The other had a bunch of hot dogs and chicken legs and steaks and chips and whatever else you can imagine for a Memorial Day party.

He whipped out his food stamp card and got away with most. OK, he's buying a party.

His Cohort, #2, Comes up with all the beer and a couple of items worthy of WIC. He pulls out his WIC voucher, but it's amidst his wad of large dollar bills.

Hello, why should anyone that has a wad of $100's whip out a wic voucher, and why should he follow around with a guy that is supposedly buying for charity cases?

I think it's fine to check out what other people are buying at the grocery store and I'm not saying anyone here would do this, but here's my recent experience: My DD called me the other night. She was very upset. Apparently a checkout snob, while looking down her nose at my DD, made a snide comment just loud enough for everyone around to hear. My DD was using WIC coupons to purchase part of her groceries. She was also doing some shopping for her (soon-to-be) well-to-do MIL who was stuck at home in a full leg cast. She'd been given a list and enough cash to cover her soon-to-be MIL's purchases. In her cart were a wide variety of inexpensive and expensive items.

I'm sure it appeared to the woman who made the snide comment that here was a welfare recipient using WIC coupons and buying luxury, convenience foods. My DD was shocked and humiliated. She dreads going to the grocery store anymore. She's now going overboard with the frugality thing to the point that she doesn't eat dinner a couple times a week because she's too embarrassed to have that many groceries in her cart. Or she shops at two different stores after working 60 hrs a week at her low-paying job and caring for an infant at home. We're going to start shopping together once a week so I can teach her how to cook some family recipes - well, that's just my ploy to see that she's eating regularly.

Like I said at the beginning of this post, I really don't think anyone here would make a comment in the checkout line. I just wanted to remind us all that you can't judge a book by it's cover.

Shesgarden - thank you for your post. It's too bad your dd didn't speak up in front of everyone and let that loud mouth have it. I always find too that people that worry about what is going on in other people's lives (or make assumptions), shouldn't live in glass houses. I remember one day in my office, the telephone repairman spent an hour ranting and raving about people on welfare, blah blah. At the same time, I'm thinking "and how much are you getting paid to stand here and do nothing?"

Sheasgarden brings up a point that I wanted to share-it's just dangerous to assume you are more frugal than someone else just by peeking at their cart.

Someone mentioned that they feel smug when they see someone buying 1 gallon of milk instead of 2.5 gallons. But you know what? I live alone. Buying the 2.5 gallons is a huge waste of money for me since I often have to dump half of the milk I buy (in the smaller container) because it goes bad before I can finish it. So maybe the price per ounce of milk is lower for the 2.5 gallons but when you have to dump more than half of that milk you're no longer saving any money.

This is true about a lot of things. I have often bought small, single servings of cheddar cheese. They are individually wrapped and last for a long time. I think I have purchased 3 of them for a dollar, and they were an ounce each. I know I could have bought an 8-ounce block of cheese (not name brand) for maybe $2.00 (probably more, I just don't remember). But when I do that, I end up opening it and having an ounce or two of cheese before it gets moldy because I'm not a big cheese eater. So I ended up wasting money and cheese. So please don't assume that because I don't purchase things in bulk all the time I am not frugal. I have a nice little system for myself. I don't have to waste food or money. I may buy name brands but only when that matters to me (for example, I can tell a difference between the generic and the name brand and I simply like the name brand better). When I see a sale on non-perishable foods I buy what I can, but I can't buy in bulk for perishable foods.

And I personally love Hot Pockets (actually, lean pockets). I just wait for a sale and stock up. They are pretty reasonable on sale. And I don't eat them every day. Maybe I'll have one for lunch on the weekend. It's like a treat that I crave. But if someone were to see me purchasing 5 boxes of them (not knowing that they are on sale) they might assume that I'm wasting my money, when in fact I know that I am purchasing about 10 meals for $10. Much cheaper and healthier than running to McDonalds for a break from my daily turkey sandwiches.

So I just wanted to point that out. We are all voyeurs, I do it too. I just think that there's always a story that people forget to investigate when they are making assumptions, and that's mine.

One other assumption people make, which I have noticed is very often false, is that the wealthy people are the snobs. Yes, some are, but sometimes those who are jealous of wealth are the ones who are truly snobs. This is not a political statement but a personal one, and it is not an attempt to argue for or against any type of official policy toward wealth or wealthy people.

After all, it's not money that is the root of all evil, but the love of money that is the root of all evil.

Ken

Well this certainly has been an entertaining read for a bored Christmas reveler!

I always scope out what's in someone else's cart (knowing full well someone else is doing the same to mine!). Generally, we shop the perimeter of the grocery store. We tend to buy ingredients and turn them into things at home. We're child-free and probably have more time than busy parents, even though both of work (more) than full time.

We have a spectacular garden and only buy produce from November-late May. It's a shared joy and not a chore for us, though. We've never quantified the "savings". Don't really care.

I also had to chuckle about the razzing I get for being frugal. I pack a lunch, and rarely have more than $20 in my wallet. My co-workers tease me mercilessly, but I don't mind, because they do it in fun. A couple of them have even adopted a few of my "ways". Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?

OK, seems to me that most answers to this post concern "we could buy better, but we don't". Someone way up top suggested we should have a "how to spend money forum".

I second that. You spend 30 years being frugal, put the kids thru college, own your home, and you have a ton of money left over. Your kids are making more money in a year than you earned in ten years. What do you do with your "excess"?

Let's assume that your kids will pitch in if you run out of money before you run out of time.

You live where you want to live, or you could sell your Northern Property for an obnoxious amount and buy a retirement villa in the south for 1/3 the price.

So what do you do with the excess?

This is a serious question.... how do you SPEND money when you've spent years saving it?

This is interesting. I am a very frugal person. The "usual" things that people spend on interest me minimally, if at all. I couldn't care less about a new car. I don't spend a lot of money on jewellery or clothing.

I think nothing of buying expensive perennials for the garden. Or loads of compost. Or shrubs. I love buying nice fabric and making pretty draperies for our home. I have no trouble having a curbside find reupholstered, or a family piece repaired professionally. I bought sterling silver flatware when I had amassed enough money to buy it. I amassed the sum by "brown bagging" and watching the pennies for two years.

We save money day to day so we may have things we desire. The current goal is to purchase a sailboat big enough to permit us to cruise for extended periods of time. I don't feel I live a deprived life in any respect, nor do I feel particularly obsessive about "pinching pennies".

Our biggest "ten fingers" to saving lots of money, though, will always be our decision to remain "child-free"...

Chelone, you seem to have your act together, and don't have to be perusing the money saving forum. You're spending money you have on what you like. However, I'm not sure you've been "FRUGAL" for all your life. (i.e., eating cheap so you could pay rent) Your gardening expenses are probably well within a realistic window.

My interest is in your decision to have no kids. Ok, I'm in the same boat, with no relatives I even like, much less want to leave money to.. so who benefits?

Being frugal used to be a game, then an obsession, and I'm trying desperately to get out of that scenario now, but it's hard! I recently bought a damaged leather couch that I had to repair, even though I could have bought a dozen of them at 'real price' and not flinched financially. :(

I'd like to hear from some credit card junkies on how they can blow money on a whim!

:)

Hello sheasgarden,

Greetings, there, Michigander - from a neighbour in Ontario.

I feel for your DD.

I am troubled by her ongoing reaction - not eating, shopping at several stores - because some stranger - once - made a thoughtless comment about the contents of her shopping cart in a store? Letting some stranger cause her to make substantial alterations in her lifestyle, especially related to her core values of how she eats? No, no.

What would her reaction have been had you or someone close to her said something like that - likely would have been hurt, angry - and might have told you to mind your own business. Also, might well have been more assertive just to show that you were wrong - or that she would run her life as she saw fit.

Does she have some problem with self-esteem, self-confidence?

If you let people bulldoze you, there'll be lots of them willing to do it.

Tell her to take charge of her own life - stiffen her backbone, straighten her shoulders, lift her nose in the air and live as she feels called to live.

If something happens like that, I often say something that's true, but rather light-hearted, like shrugging my shoulders, spreading my hands, and saying, while sort of chuckling, something like, "Hey, what can you do - the cheap stuff's for me - the rich stuff is for my mother-in-law who has a leg in a cast!"

But - as a returned missionary who's been bored on occasion by such people leading interesting lives but telling boring stories about their work, and having been a practising clergyperson for a number of years, I've tried to plan ways to speak vividly and memorably.

NebrJewel

My first reaction was that the telephone guy was stealing some of his boss' time - but that's only if he stood around, or worked less hard, while he was carrying on the rant.

(Tell him to come here - we'll put him in his place!)

cmonkey8

While it often happens, it's not always true that the biggest package offers the lowest cost per unit of product - best to check out price per unit. Sometimes smaller packs offer lower price per ounce.

Gina in FL

Pick some worthy charities - health research, support for people with handicaps, community service, environmental concerns, religious groups (esecially ones doing good community service), etc. There are hundreds of worthy ones - but check to make sure that they aren't scams.

I never give at the door, or as a direct result of telephone requests - I want to check them out.

And - as one who worked helping refugees resettle after the Korean War - I ask that you please seek some charities that make the dollars work hard in terms of helping desparately poor people in other countries get on their feet.

Supporting kids in orphanages is worthwhile, but may I suggest that you help poor families have some capital so that the adults can support their children? It's tough to see you kids hungry because you can't find a job - but a few hundreds or a thousand or so would allow you to set up a business. Best to make the money available through some of the small, community-based development banks, that form groups, lend to one member, and make everyone responsible for the payment, then lend to another. Their record of repayment, thus recycling the money, is excellent.

Though various mission agencies have done noble work in education and medical service historically and now, great expansion of education in such countries is crucial - as is health care.

The internet and e-mail has helped me send Christmas greetings to friends, instead of cards and postage, and I tell most of my friends that I make charitable contributions instead of getting them something for which they have little use, as they have everything that they want.

Good wishes to everyone for the rest of the holiday season.

May your New Year bring the fulfillment of some of your dreams, the growth of some new (worthy) ones, and a good measure of health, prosperity, friends and happiness.

Offered with thankfulness for the interplay of good ideas, the friendships developed, and some fun in the process, that I've enjoyed here in recent months.

jes ole Ed

Gina,

I have been frugal my whole life, learned it from the 'rents. I paid for college myself, and worked nearly full time to do it. I quickly became rather a whiz and inventive recipes for beans and rice, and always shopped the part of the green grocer where they put the vegetables and fruits that are nearly "gone". I learned how to use them in things that could be frozen. I was a devotee of the cart that contained dented cans or bashed boxes. Farmer's markets. Thrift stores and yard sales (still am!). I learned to do things for myself (oil changes, rewiring lamps, mending/altering clothes) and found it was FUN.

When I've lived in more in-town places I've walked or used my bike. I have distinct memories of finishing the week with about $10 in my checking account after I paid my savings account, rent, utilities, put fuel in the car, and paid my student loans. It sucked at the time, but now it's sort of a funny memory. I took a lot of "heat" from friends who steadily dug themselves into bunkers of debt. And I felt pretty dumb... everyone seemed to be "livin' large" but me. I remember being unable to get a credit card because I had "insufficient credit" (anyone else remember those days? LOL). But over time things have worked out well.

As for no children... . This is something we've talked about at length. None of our siblings have children, either. So I very much understand your feelings on the subject. I keep tabs on my cousins' children, but more so the children of very dear friends who are struggling. In all liklihood we will need every dime of equity in our home to fund our old age, but if our circumstances change markedly I would have no trouble at all leaving huge portions of our estate to children I genuinely enjoy. Nor would I have any problem liquidating it and distributing the proceeds to an Animal Welfare League, National Public Radio, Public Television, or a local Historical Society.

I particularly enjoy sites like this one because they seem to be "inhabited" by people who are seeking to avoid the pitfalls of consumerism and have a sense of humor about it. Rarely do I exit without gleaning some scrap of knowledge.

"It really irks me when I see people using food stamps to buy brand name cereals, dinner "boxes", frozen salty-dinners and such - not because I am angry that they aren't being "responsible", but more sad because I think most don't *know* how to buy foods and cook from scratch, and they don't realize how much farther the food would go if they did that."

Well, in a totally misguided attempt to save money, most schools have eliminated home ec classes where people might have a chance to learn this kind of stuff. If those of you who revel in your "thrift" skills would volunteer to teach some classes in shopping, thrifty cooking, household finance, and nutrition in your area ... maybe you wouldn't be so aghast at the shopping carts of others.

********
sheasgarden -
I used to live near a VERY wealthy elderly woman who had a full household staff. She regularly took other elderly neighborhood folk shopping, or even sent her car and driver to take them to the market if she was not going herself.

Someone saw a bunch of old ladies buying things with food stamps and then getting into a chauffered Rolls Royce (the big old reeks of wealth kind you only see in movies, not in a supermarket parking lot). They wrote an irate letter to the editor about welfare frauds and got it published. The scathing response from the generous woman included the killer line "We use my Rolls because my Jag can't hold enough groceries". I wish I had saved that one, because it was a flawless example of how to rake someone over the coals in an impeccably polite and gramatically correct manner.

Naah. If I'm not paying their bills, it's not going to bug me. I am a bit nosy when it comes to some of the items. Like seeing lasagne noodles, ground beef, cheese, and saying to myself, "someone's having lasagne." That's when the line is ridiculously long, and there are no good magazines to rifle through. Most of the time, I'm either preparing my check or reading through a magazine.

Reading all these posts, I dare not comment except I find
lazygardens quite humourous;

"We use my Rolls because my Jag can't hold enough groceries". I wish I had saved that one, because it was a flawless example of how to rake someone over the coals in an impeccably polite and gramatically correct manner.

I too wish you had saved that one.

I've enjoyed reading the responces. I am a third generation frugal shopper and my husband is just as careful as I am. My grandmother was deserted by her husband when I was about 2 1/2 years old. She could squeeze a nickle 'til the buffalo hollered. After she was left to survive on her own, she got a job at the Van de Kamp's bakeries. She would skrimp and save her pennys and put them in the bank . . .because she was so frugal she never wanted anything, but her wants were very modest. When I was 20 years old my grandmother bought her her first home and she was able to pay 100% cash for it. Not something that many people can do.
Do I ogle what other people purchase at the check out stand? Sometimes, but usually it is the quantity that is being bought rather than the specific contents. I feel people are entitled to spend their limited dollars any way they please as long as it is legal. One of the greatest simple pleasures of life that people can have is eating a meal that they really enjoy. . .for some this means as inexpensive a meal as possible, but for another it may mean a leg of lamb with double stuffed baked potatoes, several out of season vegetables and a fancy already prepared dessert. Is either one of these types of people any less entitled to enjoy their chosen meal?
Here's another point to ponder while you scan my purchases that I make. As you look at the boxed juices, individual serving size packets of cereals, vegetables, hot chocolate, etc., please realize that they may NOT be destined for my home, but for the local senior citizens center, a homeless shelter or the local food bank. I am fortunate enough to be able assist others in need. But by the grace of God, there go I.

Chelone, thanks for the 're-inforcement'. I've been telling my mother not to automatically "gift" those relatives that she only hears from once a year (just after the checks arrive).

She has more relatives than I do, since I don't like many of her's (hehehe,,, they are also mine, but I don't care!)

I do like dogs a lot better, especially leaning towards companion dogs & humane societies. Maybe I'll start a retirement home for pets in this area. I dunno.

CHERYL: If you aren't on food stamps or welfare, and you are paying taxes, and they are using food stamps, WIC, or any other government handout, you ARE paying their bills.

Well I have to say this has been interesting.
I don't remember looking at any one's shopping cart period.
I guess I don't give a rip what other people buy or what they do with it. Then again the place I shop for groceries is a small family owned grocery store where we run into friends and we spend our time in the check out line catching up. You know like How's so and so? Did Johnnie get home for Christmas? We call it our social club and have teased the owner for years about having a cocktail hour. Being frugal is a good thing and I applaud those who are. I'm just not interested in shopping carts or what's in them.

Jan

A couple of things. I usually don't notice what someone else has in their carts. I have a 10 year old that talks non-stop so I cannot get easily distracted. Now, I have been miffed at friends that could not pay phone bills, electric bills, etc and were going out to eat every night. One family has 4 children and none of them like the same places so they drive around and pick up from different fast food places. At one time, I needed WIC and did not have the heart to abuse it even though some friends even encouraged it. I do get frustrated to hear someone complain that they are barely able to buy groceries, but they buy prepackaged hamburgers, etc, don't care what's on sale. I guess they are not too bad off.

Someone mentioned thinking people were idiots because the assumption was that if they were driving nice vehicles that had on average $7k cc debt. I do drive a Tahoe, which is nice. I do use a cc, but it is paid off every month. We pay for everything we can with it and write one check. I hate owing people money. To me, it puts me at their mercy. I guess I figure I save in check costs anyway. I make extra principal payments on the mortgage. Other than the vehicle, I am fairly frugal. I never was a big spender, but going through several years as a single mom without child support and low wages has made me have a fear of being in that position again. Those days, stew and biscuits was a fancy dinner for DD & I. Now that DH & I do pretty darn well, I still cannot get past that. Besides, I just don't want to pay any more than I have to. I actually get excited by great deals. Weird, I know.

I heard a preacher say one time-If you have a pantry or a freezer, you have more food than you can eat today. You are not poor. That stayed with me.

Gina, that's an interesting way of looking at it, and you are right. Still, whatever they have on the conveyor belt, regardless if they're on welfare or not, is not really any of my business.

I may look at other's carts of groceries, only to think---"How much time are they going to take unloading that???" Does anybody notice how long we WAIT in line, only to finally reach the cashier and our items ZOOM across the counter??????

Please, the lady who can do a Thanksgiving dinner for 6 bucks-------enlighten me. Did you purchase your turkey in July? My fruit cocktail-marshmallow salad costs that much!

lazygardens, the Rolls and Jag story cracked me up!!!

YEs, I thought about that thanksgiving dinner too: Thinking the turkey was a gift from work? It gives me a thought to start another thread about stocking up the pantry. Look for it.

No, I'm not a checkout snob. LOL I do look at what others have in their basket, just out of curiosity. But I really don't care what they buy.