I know just what you mean. We have friends that think nothing of ordering a $60 bottle of wine with dinner. I don't even like wine, nor does my DH. It just about ruins my dinner thinking about what I could do with an extra $60.

Yeah, I don't mind spending for a $60 bottle of wine, but I think it's totally inconsiderate of another to expect you to share the bill for it.

Well DH and I always pay for what we personally order. When with another couple we say at the start "separate checks"....if we forget my DH is not above saying ...no sorry we didn't order any drinks....If the other couple don't like it...well next time they can go alone. But we only pay for what WE order or share. Most of our friends are the same so it hasn't been a big issue most times.

I think it's a geographic thing. In New York they even post signs "No separate checks." With good friends it usually evens out over the years, so it's OK.

I live in NYC, and we don't usually do the separate checks. But I always put it more if I spent more. When we divide it up, we don't divide it EVENLY, for heaven's sake! We divide it based on who ordered what.

The people I go out to lunch or dinner with even split the TIP and the TAX based on how much they spent.

And if someone is spending $60 on a bottle of wine to be shared by all, you need to speak up at the time the order is placed or right about the point you make plans to eat with them. Or just afterward: "Next time, let's order our wine separately; $60 is above my comfort level."

If they say "no, I'll treat you," then let them. Or contribute whatever you'd be *willing* to spend on wine.

One of the best money-saving tips of all time is to speak up. And to not let other people take advange of you, whether they intend to or not.

DH and I were discussing the responses. I think if the couple who ordered less wants to pay only their bill, the others call them cheap, but why? That means that they were really paying for the other couples extras, so who's cheap? If the couple who has more says their paying for their own than no one says they're cheap. Interesting isn't it? It really isn't an issue if you don't eat out frequently, but if you do it can get annoying all the way round.

You and your DH are right, Agnes--if you're willing to let someone pay for part of your expensive meal (which of course our original poster is not--her prob. is that she does NOT want to stick someone w/ her larger bill), or even if you want to INSIST that someone pay a quarter of the bill (by insinuating that they're cheap if they don't), when they incurred only a fifth of the charges, why is it people don't call YOU cheap or--worse yet--greedy? A freeloader?

I think folks need to just start insisting that they'll pay their own share (our original poster could EASILY do this, because she's the one w/ the bigger bill, and her friend would admire how she didn't burden them), whether the checks are separated by the waiter, or by the diners.

I rarely drink, order appetizers or dessert. So I keep a running tally in my head. I add tax and tip, and extra if I've shared someone else's food or drink (doesn't usually happen), and then give it to the person handling the bill and tell them that this is my share. I always err by giving too much than too little.

Before this, I used to simply ask for the bill and check the cost of what I had, but it's easier to simply remember.

I think things even out over time if you eat out with people who eat similarly. The friends I usually go out with order specialty drinks, appetizers, dessert, fancy coffees, etc. It simply doesn't work out over time in a situation like this.

A pet peeve of mine is when the people who have spent the most say, "Let's split the check."!!! Congratulations to the original poster, who is sensitive to that issue.

I think if I were the original poster, I'd throw in extra money to pay for drinks and a more expensive dinner, then give back some money to the other people and tell them that they threw in too much.

I find it is always, always better to be prepared with *cash* when going to a restaurant with a group. The larger the group the more important this rule is, especially if you don't know everyone that well. Bring bills smaller than $20s, too. Then you can do your tally, put in your cash, and know you've done your part. The cash rule applies whether you're a drinks-and-appie-and-porterhouse type person or a I'll-just-split-the-chicken-entree-with-my-wife type person. As well intentioned as most people might be, with a larger crowd someone almost always gets screwed, and it's usually the guy who just tosses in his credit card. But please do take a tip from Joann and round up a little. In groups esp. people often will look at what they ate and drank, but will forget tax, or throw in $2 on a $20 tab for a tip. Adding a buck or two overage is a nice gesture so your server can buy groceries that week. :)

Oh, one more thing: kudos to Agnes for valuing a good time out dining and being willing to pay for her whole share! DH and I are the same way: we value good dining, but would never want our friends to subsidize this thing that we splurge on. I don't help my shoe-hound girlfriend buy rediculously expensive (to my mind) shoes; why should she help me buy a $40 steak?

There is no problem splitting checks where we live. We just tell them in the beginning. In fact, many restaurants here will ask if you want separate checks. If not, we figure it up at the table. Luckily, we don't have "friends" who have ever tried to just split the bill evenly. They always make add up what they actually had. We would never do that to anyone. We believe that you should pay for what you ordered & not expect someone else to help pay for your meal or vice versa.

Agnes does have an interesting point regarding that. The couple who spends $50 & asks for a separate check is considered cheap, while a couple who spends $100 & splits the check evenly is not. But to my mind they're cheap because they're letting someone else pay for part of their tab.

Agnes has the best position--since she's the big spender, she can initiate HOW the check is divided.

She can say, when she orders, "now, I'm gonna splurge on the lobster, so let's remember that when the check comes."

Of course, *I* also can say, "money's tight this week, so I'm gonna skip the appetizer; remember that when the check comes."

We should all just stop being worried about what people thing. And we should pick our friends better--if they're gonna look down on you because you're watching your money, you need new friends. Or you need to invest the time and energy in training them to expect a little clarity in the bill.

Reading this post reminded me of a story my sister told me.

She and her DH live in a very nice development and a group of couples took another couple out for a farewell dinner (they were moving out of the area). The gentlemen who picked out the wine was a lobbyist and I guess used to expense accounts. He ordered a $450 bottle of wine (maybe even 2 bottles) and my sister said this was after his wife talked him out of a more expensive wine! The other couples were all relatively well off but they were all sent scrambling when the bill came! Each couple's bill came to several hundred dollars and this wasn't NYC.

My sister said the wine wasn't even all that great but she would have tried to enjoy it more if she had known how much it costs.

Yep, ya gotta speak up. Years ago I met a friend for drinks. I had 3 beers, she had 4 white russians made with stolie. The bill came and she said, oh that's $14 each plus the tip. HAH! Her drinks were $5.25 each, my beers were $2.25. You better believe I spoke up!

I think that within each circle of friends, there's a way to handle checks...and if it hasn't been discussed at home, over a potluck dinner...then maybe 'friends' isn't really what the circle is made of?

I spent about 10 years where I was one of only 3 people with day jobs- and I made about half of what the other two did, but twice what the rest of the gang did (and I lived at home taboot, which doubled my disposable income)

so I've gotten to see every permutation of generosity and aravice imaginable...and decided that there are some people I just don't see the point in sharing meals with...

my husband doesn't drink at all, and I do so rarely that I almost never do in public...we had a dry wedding, that's how little we drink. you would THINK that anyone who attended that wedding would know better than to try and talk us into 'splitting' a bottle of wine... or trying to include it on a 'shared' bill...

I'd rather take five decent people out to dinner at the local diner, than split the (inflated) cost of one bottle of chardonnay with people who just don't get it.

I wonder why restaurants won't do seperate checks? I wouldn't patronize a place that had that inane rule. (Just my personal humble opinion.)

Hi, I believe this (New York) is one of the only places in the US that refuses to give separate checks. I can imagine, if you created a scene, they would do so, but I wouldn't try it. On another note my dentist told me that New York State is the only place where you go to the dentist and he collects the insurance first and then bills you for the remainder. Every other state, it's upfront payment and you file for insurance. It sounded like a sob story to me but it could be true.

Because restaurants in NYC have a huge and fast turnover. It's just too much work to deal w/ separate checks.

There are restaurants in NYC that do separate checks. The ones that don't are usually the really busy ones.

And it's true, Agnes, that my dentist will bill the insurance company first and then bill me for the remainder. My doctor's clinic at a hospital does the same thing. I find this confusing, though, and much prefer to pay the provider and get reimbursed--this is possible w/ my dentist, but not w/ the hospital clinic.

My child's dentist bills the insurance company but also charges us our estimated co-pay (and reimburses or bills us if they guess wrong).

The volume of people is very different in NYC.

Well, NY isn't the only place that bills insurance first, then sends the bill just for what you owe - my dentist and the hospitals here send to the insurance first, then send me a bill for the amount I owe after they are paid by the insurance. I prefer it that way - I'd never be able to afford doing it the other way around (I recently had $600 of dental work done...I didn't have the $600 to pay them - nor would I have at any point, but I did have the $219 that was my part by the time I got the bill, and they got the rest directly from the insurance company). :-)

Separate checks are no problem here though (most places ask before ordering if you'd like separate checks or not)...but most of the time we just get one check and divide it up as per who ordered what (everyone just pays for what they ordered - that's the norm around here), rather than making the waitress deal with several different pieces of paper all at once.