When I'm playing a game of cards, I don't like a game in which the other guy makes all the rules. Or in which he has total control over how the contract is to be interpreted. Or how much I have to pay if I turn the vehicle back with a scratch, etc. on it.

Though I twice bought new vehicles (last year's model at substantial price reduction), that was a number of years ago and I'm not enthused about buying new or nearly-new vehicles. Some like to do that, to obtain major warranty protection against costly repairs.

A car is a costly piece of rather necessary equipment to pursue my chosen lifestyle but I plan to obtain that transportation at as low an investment as practicable. Given that the value deteriorates rather heavily, especially in the first few years, I am unenthused about buying a new one.

When I write a cheque for the price of a new car, whether the money is mine or mostly the bank's, receive the keys and drive it home, it's as though I had 40 or 50 $100. bills stacked on the passenger seat, with the passenger window open, and they flew out the window on the way home: it's worth that much less, should I want/need to sell it right away.

When I buy a car, I prefer to pay for it with my own money: just one transaction - the purchase of a vehicle, not the added requirement that I add a second expense, rent on the money that I borrow to buy it.

And I prefer to buy it privately, as the price is usually somewhat less than one is required to pay at a dealership, the extra cost being overhead and profit that adds nothing to the value of the car.

If I buy two or three privately, then get one that's a lemon (or that the cops repossess as having been stolen) I figure that I've made a good bargain.

Many seniors prefer to have a fairly new, dependable car, that they've drive carefully and not a large number of miles. I like to make a request that, when they next upgrade their car (buy a new one), they me a call with the opportunity to bid on their previous one.

They can get a better deal when buying if they do not have a trade-in, and I get a good car at a low price.

Have some mechanics or others familiar with the prices of cars evaluate a fair price.

Check with a mechanic that you know to have a vehicle that you're considering checked over. Have him/her give you some advice as to things to check on a vehicle you're considering, to weed out some really unattractive ones. When you see one that interests you, take it to your mechanic to check it. S/he may just take a quick look and listen to the engine - then tell you to get out of here- you don't want that. Pay him/her $10.00.

If the mechanic is interested and checks on several items on the car before rejecting it, pay $20.00.

If s/he really likes a car and gives it a fairly thorough inspection - pay $50.00.

If you pay $200. before you find a vehicle that the mechanic judges to be a worthy one ... and you save one trip to the garage for repairs ... you're ahead.

How to find a mechanic that is interested to check cars for you?

How to find possible sources of available vehicles, perhaps from people that you know?

Here's a suggestion that should save you hundreds, more likely thousands, over the years.

Write down the names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses of everyone that you've known since you were a kid: school mates, colleagues at work, social, sport, church, political and other connections that you may have.

Write down their training, the work that they do, their interests, hobbies, skills, vacation destinations, etc.

Keep adding to the information as you go along - it's easier to do it on computer, for ease of editing.

A few months before you feel that you may need a new car, do two things.

Notify all of those folks that you're looking for a vehicle and would like to hear about one that they may know of that's in good shape.

Ask your computer to tell you who are the mechanics of your acquaintance. You may remember one or two - but it'll probably show you five or six ... one or two of whom may be willing to check candidate vehicles for you.

I bought my second last car when it was about 7 years old, Dodge Colt with 1.5 litre engine (which sipped gas - it spoiled me!), standard transmission, over 85,000 mi., which I drove over 120,000 mi. It cost me $2,600. originally and over that amount in repairs over the eight years that I drove it.

It didn't owe me a penny!

Current car, Ford Taurus station wagon (my 1980 Ford Van gave up the ghost last spring), 13 years old, 3.8 litre engine, automatic transmission, cost me $2,000. eight months ago, uses more gas than I've been used to.

I bought a 1980 Ford Van, 6 cyl, automatic, in 1990, for $1,000.00. Former owner, a friend, said that it had been a service vehicle for a TV cable co., had over 200,000 km,. (about 125,000 mi.) on it and it turned over another 100,000 km. while I had it. He later told me that he thought it had gone over 300,000 km. when I bought it. I did only minor repairs on it during the 16 years that I had it. Not sure how much mileage I put on it - quite a few. Used it to deliver corn-fired heaters when I sold them for a while, 15 years ago.

It didn't owe me a penny, either.

Good wishes if you expect to be buying a vehicle in the next while - I hope that you get one that does what you want it to do for a good long time, at minimal cost for repairs.

ole joyful

But not all leases have you at a disadvantage!

DH ONLY leases (and has for probably 20 years now...). He never had a problem with contract intrepretation, never felt out of control, never paid anything extra in regards to stains, scratches, dents, etc. He is very much a 'high mileage driver', and leases are the way for him to go.

"When I buy a car, I prefer to pay for it with my own money: just one transaction - the purchase of a vehicle, not the added requirement that I add a second expense, rent on the money that I borrow to buy it."

Sometimes you can work the system, though!
I had the cash to pay for my current vehicle. But I did not use it as I was offered 0% down and 0% financing. I invested my car money instead...

Just wanted to flip the coin and show the other side!

Lisa

Question for those of you in US, please. Can anyone give me the name(s) of very low-cost cars where you can lease for under $150 per month? My brother puts on average 6,000 a year on a car and is stretched financially. He is trying to glue his 16-year-old car together with repairs that may total over $1000 this year. I feel it would be cheaper to lease a new one!

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated!
Dee

Would your relative be interested in leasing an older vehicle?

There used to be some companies that leased older vehicles - I remember renting one such for a week or so in Edmonton in the early '80s. I don't remember the company's name. The cost was much below what rental agencies offering new vehicles asked and I wasn't trying to impress anybody.

One such company was called "Rent-A-Wreck".

I don't know whether there are such companies now.

Maybe they couldn't manage, financially, though I think that should have been a good business.

Maybe people were just too snooty to use them.

Anyway - if you might be able to find such, mayibe use it.

ole joyful

The math isn't holding up here. Let's say there is a car you could lease for under $150 a month. In six months time, you've spend $900 on lease payments. Meanwhile the car will need $1,000 to fix it? Granted, more can go wrong with that car, but it seems to me $1,000 for a year is better than $1,800 for a year. And if he leases for longer than that (quite likely), things get even more lopsided. After three years, if his current car needs even $1,500 a year in repairs, he'll have spent ($1,000 + $1,500 + $1,500) = $4,000. If he leases, he's out (3 x $1,800) = $5,400. Plus the higher costs of insurance and registration for the newer car. I just don't see how you come out ahead on this.

The family was discussing this and realized that he would most likely be paying far more in repairs than the car is worth. I've seen commercials that state you can "lease a blah, blah for $99 a month". Sounds like a great deal to me; however, there is probably only 1 car in that dealership for $99 a month. Such a web!

He actually has an appointment at a service center tomorrow to determine how to fix the old car so that it can pass inspection. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks again!

If your relative is considering a lease, tell him to read the fine print.

Very carefully.

If I have given the impression that I am totally opposed to leases, I'm not, actually.

But I prefer owning a vehicle.

And I usually like to buy one that's at least five years old.

If I can find one that's been "babied" by, for example, a senior, I'm pleased to get it.

I've bought from a friend in the auto business, but lacking that I'd buy from the street.

Less costly that buying from dealers.

And I've learned some things about cars, enough to know how to eliminate a number of such vehicles that I may check.

And take one that I find interesting to a mechanic, to have him/her check it. If I take more than half a dozen vehicles, paying the mechanic a reasonable fee to check each, and avoid one trip to the garage after I buy one that I choose, I'm money ahead.

If I can get a couple or three such cheapies before getting a lemon, that I even have to sell for scrap (or have the police repossess one as having been stolen), I'm money ahead, as I usually figure to spend much less than $5,000. on a vehicle.

I'm fortunate that I don't have to get up and scrape the ice off of the windshield to drive to work in the dark, then drive home in the dark at the end of the working day, any more.

If I get up and see that the weather is unpleasant, I can choose to say, "Oh, well - I didn't want to go out today, anyway".

Up until now I've depended on having friends help me out of binds that I may get in due to less than exemplary vehicles, but ...

... one of those major friends died last year.

And my daughter subscribed to CAA Plus for me for Christmas, last year, which will get me out of some roadside difficulties when necessary.

I stop to help people having trouble with vehicles by the roadside, for that reason, as well - people have helped me when I was having problems.

I call that applied Christianity - love/treat my neighbour as I'd like to be loved/treated (neighbours, in this case, including strangers who are also fellow-humans).

I hope that your brother finds a vehicle that will give him dependable service, without being unduly costly, for a number of years.

ole joyful

Not to pick on you, but that's another statement I don't understand. The reason for having the car is to have transportation, correct? The cost of that transportation is the cost of the vehicle (zero if it is paid off), gas/oil/tires/consumables, and repairs/maintenance.

If the car requires $1,500 in repairs (and that takes care of all the problems foreseeable for the near term), then the comparison that needs to be made is not the value of the car itself but whether you can buy alternate usable transportation for that much money.

There are dozens of reasons to buy a new vehicle rather than repair an old one: the cost of repairs is high enough to roughly equal car payments; a new vehicle would get much better mileage/pollute less; there is a need for more reliable transportation (it's your only car and you work an odd shift in a snowy climate); your needs change (three teenager in the back of a Civic is not a happy thing); etc. But if $1,500 takes care of problems for even just another year, that still is cheaper than just about any car (lease) payment you can make.

Current car is a 95 Chevy Lumina w/158,000 miles on it. Paid just under $15K for it originally. Its been a great car, but now the original parts are starting to fail (e.g. power steering pump, starter). Its in the shop at the moment for a $750 repair. But prior to this, it hasn't been to the shop in the last 15 months. I agree with Steve. Even if the car only lasts another year, I'm still way ahead of the game.
-jasper

My last vehicle lasted over 15 years and cost to repair would be unreasonably high though I would have put some money into it had I not been able to find a low cost vehicle to last a while. There are the "thrifties" out there that are known as "beaters" and "winter beaters" that will get you around. I bought a mini-van from an estate for $500. It was 10 years old and had about 140,000 miles on it. Ran like new. Not well maintained but ran like new, good tires, and though the body had its share of dings and scratches it wasn't rusted out. For a backup vehicle it would be fine. Turned out I bought it at the right time since the pickup gave up the ghost.

I've put on 20,000 miles plus (at least) and it's going strong. I just had to put $1000 into it but the mechanic said it's solid and worth putting the money into it. 24 mpg now, comfortable and reliable. Sat outside over the winter and starts right away, even at -30°F. Granted, the heater in a van is a joke, but that's not the vehicle's fault, it's the designer's.

A friend of mine offered to sell me one of their company vehicles. A Lexus SUV with a book value of $22,000, for what they owed on it, about $16,000. But that had 90,000 miles on it and I said for my vehicle purchases, it's off by a decimal point! Since I can buy a new Mercury Marquis for the same money, I'd prefer that to the used Lex. I don't need a status symbol.

If someone doesn't drive much, it's really worth looking at going the beater route if they don't have an ego. Carry a cell phone for about $5/mo instead of a car club and you can call for help if you break down. I personally feel people should have one in case of someone trying a bump-n-rob, or something anyway. And if the older folks get a flat tire, accident (deer or otherwise) or something it's worth having. Nuff on that.

Since I have to drive for work, I need a vehicle. Our society has done everything it can to make public transportation impractical for far too many.

... they just look at me, shrug (or snort) and (often) walk away.

Saying, "That's impossible!".

No, it ain't.

ole joyful

Once, a saleman urged me to take home a new vehicle for a 24 hour test drive.
I did not desire the vehicle, but would have considered it for the right price. When I returned it, I offered my best price and it was declined. This was about 6 years ago.

Anyway, I thought I should take this opportunity to send my regrets to General Motors...

Dear GM.
I tried to help. sorry. -jasper

Your name doesn't just happen to be "Jasper Friendly Bear" does it?

See my post today on the thread about home security alarms.

ole joyful

If your heater in the van is producing less than you feel is appropriate, this may help.

One of the loaner cars that I was driving the other day was an '88 Marquis.

The body shop owner who loaned it to me said that the heater was not producing well, and should be flushed, as the core was probably partly plugged with crap. He spoke of using baking soda, and I imagine that would require draining the anti-freeze and filling ihe rad temporarily with water, not to be left in very long in cold climates, or the ice would split the block.

He said that he was having the same problem with his tow truck and got it into the shop the other day, disconnected the hoses that lead from the engine block to the heater, then forced water from a hose through the heater in the opposite direction to that in which the regular coolant travels. He sent me to a supply shop to get him a couple of new hoses, so that there'll be little possibility of old hoses bursting and losing the anti-freeze.

Hope this helps.

ole joyful

If you walk in with cash in hand, that vehicle will be available for many fewer dollars.

When did you last get something substantial ... for nothing?

Especially from a used car guy (or even a new car guy).

After all - someone has to pay for that big edifice that they occupy (and all of those bodies).

Have a great New Year, everyone.

ole joyful

P.S. Some people feel that one may need to offer incentives for kids to be good - a bad policy, in my view.

But - Christians (and many others) are supposed to be good for ... nothing.

Hey ... watch it, buster - be careful not only about what you say ... but how you say it, O.K.?

o j