My grandparents' and parents' advice, and a concept popular among their contemporaries,
"Don't buy it until you can pay cash for it".

If you can't live within your income this year and must borrow to consume more stuff right now ...

how will you manage next year when you have even less income in hand - because you'll need to use some of it to pay interest on the money that you borrowed this year in order to overconsume now?

Double whammy, isn't it?

Manufacturers, traders, transporters, retailers and the advertising people who wanted to pump up sales as quickly as possible years ago developed a system of cards that enabled people to go into debt now in order to buy stuff now. Buy now. Now.

In order to make it more palateable, they called it a "credit" card, saying that it enabled you to make use of the credit that you'd developed through using money wisely ... rather than a "debt" card, which is what it really was.

So people went on a spending spree, running consumer debt to astounding levels.

Then a recession came along.

Many workers were laid off. Those laid off cut back drastically on spending.

After another round of layoffs, a higher proportion of the population, without current income except possibly for inadequate unemployment insurance, were cutting spending to rock bottom.

To add to the trouble - the people still working, becoming aware of that big load of debt that they carried on their backs, got scared. They, too, cut back on spending - in order to pay off "credit" card debts - so that they'd be better able to cope should they get laid off in the next round of cutting.

So - while consumption had been artificially speeded up through the use of the credit cards when the economy was going well ... now it suffered a greatly decreased level of spending.

Due to the product sellers overweening greed in the days of the boom.

So - now there's hardly anyone in the stores. Retailers, manufacturers, truckers and advertisers cry and whine - the public (read "consumers") aren't doing their (almost "patriotic") duty ... by going out and spending, to keep the economy humming.

What goes around ... comes around.

My feeling is that they have no one to blame but themselves.

Good wishes to all for spending in ways that are ideal - for you and yours.

joyful guy

P.S. You oldsters will remember magazine ads for piston rings that showed a tough guy standing by a car with the hood up.

He was saying, "It's your choice: pay me now - or pay me later". jg

The best ever tip is one I received from my daughter....she told me that before I purchased something, I should think about whether I needed it or just wanted it. I was amazed this person, who used to spend money like a drunken sailor when she was younger follows her own advise. Maturity does wonders!

Maturity - that's the quality I was looking for! In conversation the other day I said the way one handles money reflects an inner quality - but I couldn't put a name on the quality. Character? No. Responsibilty? Not quite. It is maturity. Are you going to stop thinking like a child about your money? Wanting everything that's shiny and new? When you realize it's all smoke & mirrors, designed to make you put your dollar in someone else's pocket, where he'll keep it. It's a true awakening. When you see that the less you have to have, the more you do have.

Another nice thing about maturity & money is that you begin to say to yourself, "I want that, but it's more important to me to pay off my debts, save for my future, etc than to buy it."

Sigh.....I also like the saying "If I knew then what I know now!" Maturity yes, but some people unfortunately never mature and wonder why those who have matured got all the "breaks".

Great discussion. Here's my 2 cents!!

If you really want it - save for it

Pay off credit card at the end of each month - MAJOR RULE

And my favorite quote:
"THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE AREN'T THINGS."

It's hard to do, hang in there and keep trying,
Grandma Dearie

Money makes a great servant ...

... and a terrible master.

ole joyful

For many years, it would irritate me to see all the things I was getting rid of that were never/rarely used but I just HAD to have at the time. Plus, all the money I wasted on the stuff. Now, when I want something, I often don't buy it right away. IE, when shopping with girlfriends, if something catches my eye but I'm not sure if it's something I'd really wear/use or just a passing fancy, I'll continue shopping. If I keep thinking about it, I may go back & buy it or may wait a day or two & go back. Obviously, if I don't keep thinking about it, it wasn't that important, anyway. Also, I've found if it's clothing, if I try it on, I may not like the way it fits, so then the problem is solved with no stewing about it.

I agree that maturity makes a huge difference in most people's buying habits. I also think it's just human nature to want what we can't have - and *when* we can't have it. Later, if we're lucky and life gets a little easier financially, just knowing we can have something if we want it takes the pressure off and lessens the desire.

Teri

This from p. 25 (of 26) ...

... yup - just over 5 years back.

People here sure aren't talkers - over on the KT, 67 pages lasts for slightly over a couple of months, usually!

I guess we vote for quality over quantity, right?

Hope you're enjoying a fine old fall - just picked about a dozen boxes of the last of my tomatoes, green or partly coloured, on Monday (leaving quite a few frosted ones on the ground to rot, drat it!). I've brought home some cardboard trays from the discount grocery to lay them in single layers after I've rubbed the dirt off of them with an old rag, but don't wash them, as I'm of the opinion that it may hasten rotting rather than ripening. Some suggest to wrap each in newspaper ... some to lay a sheet of newspaper over the layer. WIll try some of each.

Last year, some ripened, quite a few either rotted or just dried up.

ole joyful

Hi Joyfulguy, I wish I had all those tomatoes. None would rot here. We eat fried green tomatoes. They can be frozen after they are cooked. By the way.....I enjoy your input and humor.

Joyful, I'm doing the same as you, ripening the last of this years tomato crop - only mine are in the garage. I go out every few days and bring the ripened ones upstairs where either they are used within a day or they get made in spaghetti sauce or frozen whole in the freezer. We make a basic sauce - just cut up some onions and garlic and put them into a pot with a drop of olive oil until they soften, toss in some pureed tomatoes - we like skins, seeds and all and a bit of shaved carrot to add sweetness and thicken the lot. Simmer a couple of hours and stir off and on. So simple but quite tasty and hey NO MEAT which makes our wallet smile. I used to do a different version with mushrooms, canned tomatoe pastes etc. but found we like this version much better. Next time you get over run try this version and see how you like it. Budster

I have another tip. I've always had a thing about tools. Whether it was a woodworking or automotive tool, if I thought I would have a use for it even if only occasionally, I would buy it. Not real expensive items but sometimes $200 - $300. As I get older, now I ask myself how many times I would use it before I die and would it be worth buying. That has put a halt on a number of my potential purchases.

Here is a link that might be useful: Composting for a Greener World

Haven't seen much of you lately Joyful. Good to see you around. Yes, the pages get used far faster on KT, but then again a good part of that is people here use the same thread where KT and some others just start a new thread to answer someone in another thread! BTW, I'm glad you're salvaging some of these old threads. They do have value. Thanks for your efforts.

The best things in life aren't things... what a great quote! And what a valuable piece of advice!

I used to, and well, still to this day in a lot of ways, cringe at the thought of relying on someone else, borrow things, etc. So I'd buy all my own tools, etc that I needed, even if it was a rarely used item. Then I'd wind up loaning them, losing them occasionally, get them back damaged or whatever. The other day I was at my cousin's and talking about how I was trimming my trees. At the back of my lot is a Chinese Elm I want to take down but it's kind of big. Maybe I was hinting for some help... IDK, but anyway he asked if I needed a good hand saw to work on it. Well he got it and I forgot what a good saw they are. We always called them a "Swede" saw, but I've heard bow saw, back saw (perhaps used on "back" bacon??) but a saw by any other name still cuts as sweet. I was able to get down most of it, then drag it out front and there I used the electric one to cut up a little more. I was in a hurry to get this done since the power company trimmed my trees and had a pile they would pick up so I wanted to contribute to it while I could. I was thinking I should get one of these saws..." and after reading this thread I go, Why? Why should I feel bad about borrowing items occaionally when I pay back the favor? That's pooling resources and good for us all. Makes a lot more sense. And I suppose a saw would be $20 or more? For something I might use every 3-5 years at best?

Sometimes it's hard to break a habit.

Oh, the brush was cleaned up yesterday so I was able to mow the leaves and it's breezy here today so I imagine some have blown back in but hopefully they'll blow through. I got a lot accomplished in the past few days. Took out most of the bushes out front so I'll have better sun exposure for this winter and they'll grow back up next year to block for the summer heat. Not too bad for a fat old crippled up cynic! I really needed to trim one tree that was rubbing on my brand new and expensive roof. The squirrels are unhappy with me though. It was an easy way onto the roof for them. Not so easy anymore. But they had cleaned the walnuts off from it so I think it's fair! I noticed my dwarf crab (is that politically incorrect? Should it be little unhappy?) tree was full of tiny (1/2" diameter) crab apples. Thought the birds would want them but maybe not.

Way more than anyone cared to know, eh?

My grandfather used to say "don't go broke saving money." I think that rings true. Just because something is cheap/on sale if you don't need it don't buy it!

"if I don't keep thinking about it, it wasn't that important"

Exactly! Last Saturday, I found a nice wool scarf at an upscale grocery store. But I did not buy it then. I have not been thinking about it, so I conclude it is not important.

Three or four years ago, I started not wanting things. I did not know why, but I guess I finally matured at that time. I know our government does not want mature citizens, though.

Has your government achieved "maturity", then? Yours seems to have become addicted to deficit financing.

Not at all sure that ours may have got to "maturity" yet, either ... but they're not running a current deficit ... they are figuring that they may, this year, if "recession" threatens to become "depression".

Ours has a rather heavy debt, though - as does yours.

o j

Well put, all of you.

Someone once said, "There was a time when everything that I saw that I liked, I had to have. Now I find I can enjoy things where I see them, without having to own them." I heard that several years ago, during a time when I was going to antique shops and flea markets, buying one of everything that appealed to me.

When we moved, it took a month for us to do it. Since that time I've been trying to be more mature about "things". Almost everything I have, I don't "need". And because I have so much stuff, I need space in which to put it. Isn't this shameful? Gradually, I am selling off "things". And I have to admit, I'm hard pressed to break even, let alone make a profit on things. So now I stay out of flea markets and antique shops. I still go to garage sales, if they are on my route to somewhere else. But, like someone here said earlier, each time I'm tempted to buy something, I ask myself if I need it. Will I care anything about it tomorrow? Will it end up in MY garage sale next spring? Will I be able to get my money back or will I have to take a loss? And if I buy it and keep it, WHERE will I put it?

Just look at the items on the tables at a typical garage sale. Obviously, the seller bought them before asking themselves any questions at all.

We have not taught our children any restraint. We, and they, fall prey to every fast-talking salesman on TV. A case in point is all these prescription drugs they advertise on TV now. First they tell you how much benefit you're going to get from taking the drug. But the law makes them finish the ad with side effects warnings. OMG! The side effects are SOOOO much worse than just putting up with the malady you already have..... AND NOBODY SEES THE RISK????? My mom and dad would have just turned to one another -- speechless --

I also thought it interesting that we are being urged to spend money in order to pump up the economy. Nobody asked ME for my opinion when my government was throwing money around like candy at a parade. Nobody warned ME ahead of time when DH's IRA shrunk to half. So now WE are supposed to go out and spend? You won't be seeing me at the mall any time soon.

my mom tricked me when I was 6 years old - apparantly, Santa did answer letters from little jewish girls, but it took him a year to get back to you...and sometimes, the boxes were a little banged up from being in the sled all that time.

by the time I was 8, it was pretty clear that she was getting me the toys I really wanted (the Creepy Crawly factory, the Easy Sew Knitting Machine) a year after they were the 'hot new must-have toy'...very often from the local thrift shop, having been played with twice, and discarded by kids who got more than one present a year.

but the wisdom of buying things once the hype died down stuck with me...add to that the cool people you meet wandering around at swap meets, antique marts, and yard sales? and my buying habits were set.

I was amazed to walk in to my local mall recently - they redecorated the place in the three years since I was last there, I didn't recognize the place! not actually an improvement, in my mind - I miss the fountains, and the Wanamaker's Eagle (ok, they've both been gone for 15 years now...) and the new stone flooring has all the personality of curdled milk, but I'm sure they saw it as a good investment, eh?

but it really reminded me how much I've changed since The Mall was where everyone's parents dropped them (and me) off with $20 in their pocket, and several hours to kill.

LOL, Chinacat! For me it was go-go boots. I'll never forget, my mom was so mad. She said, "You begged me and begged me for these and now that you have them you won't wear them!" She just didn't understand that the time had passed....

ah, but you see - I was 16 before that Creepy Crawler machine finally lost its charm -

actually, it's partly responsible for me working in IT - there was a bunch of kids who had a Multi User Dungeon game going, and it was through their TSR-80's that I first communicated with a kid who knew where you could still order the bottles of plastic 'goo' :)

of course, that, and the 'plastic bubble goop' with the straw, is recognized as being so toxic, only China continues to produce it ;)

Hmmmm...so maybe it was that Operation game my DD wanted so desperately (and got) was what got her through medical school?

of course, that, and the 'plastic bubble goop' with the straw, is recognized as being so toxic, only China continues to produce it ;)

How long before trees and phone poles are forbidden within so many feet of the road? Many cars just can't seem to avoid them.