difference of opinion on use of retirement savings
wkate640
10 years ago
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Comments (16)
patty_cakes
10 years agomaifleur01
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Need some retirement saving advice please.
Comments (18)So do I. Congratulations on realizing your need and setting out on this journey of learning about your money and how to work with it effectively. There are two basic issues ... one is your income and how to deal with it to make each of those dollars coming in work most effectively. The other is your asset base and how to manage it to make it grow well, working harder for you than for the other guys ... and avoiding having too much of snipped off by the purportedly big-deal managers to slip into their pockets. Better to learn what you're doing, over the years, and become your own manager! Pay yourself those fees that they charge (probably wise to deduct the cost of some of your mistakes, as you learn). In the investment group that I've attended monthly for about 7 years, we call them the tuition fees in the University of Learning How to Manage Your Own Money! I bought some equity-based mutual funds over 20 years ago, charging 2.5% of the value of the current asset value of the account, annually. When you multiply 2.5 by 20+ ... what do you get? 50% of the value of my asset, right? Is that the original asset amount? No - the creeping value of the asset as it grew, over time. I started a thread (I think over on KT) a couple of weeks ago asking whether people had ever seen stock certificates grow like rabbits! Had a person bought 1 share of JNJ at the beginning of 1970 (I'm using this for illustration, not suggesting that you should buy it, or not buy it) about how many shares would they think that they'd own, now? If you go to Yahoo->Finance and put JNJ in the "Get quotes" box at upper left, you'll get a page that shows a lot of info about current situation of the shares, including a chart at lower right of the stock price movements today. Clicking at a long-term period under that chart will show you share prices over your choice of various periods ... plus info about several stock splits - twice 3:1, and 4 times 2:1. What does that produce? 1->3->9->18->36->72->144 ... right? Price in 1970 $180./share (in dollars each of which was "worth" a lot more than each dollar is now). Current price about $63.00. That is, $180. grew to about $9,072. How do you like them apples? Not only that ... I read somewhere a while ago about a numberof stocks which had increased their dividend annually for 25 years ... I think JNJ has increased theirs annually for 40 years, if I'm not mistaken. Which adds some sugar to the applesauce, right? When did you ever hear of a Guaranteed Investment Certificate acting like that? Also wise for you to learn to deal with both income and assets in a tax-effective way. If you can reduce taxes now, often a good idea to do so, if the system at issue is useful in your case. Deferral is frequently a good idea, as well, when available. In Canada, a number of people look at the current rate on a GIC and at the rates paid by a stock, and say they like the interest rate better than the dividend rates usually offered. But when Canadians earn a dividend on a Canadian stock, the tax rate used to be lower, and last year the system of calculation changed to make it even lower again. I can't believe how many Canadians I've run into over the years who didn't know that! Quite often ignorance carries a substantial price. I think that I've said to thousands, over the years, that learning how money works is an interesting hobby ... **that pays well**!! (I've said it so often, around here, that I think that people must be getting sick of hearing it!) Not only that, if you put your dollars into a investment where their numbers are guaranteed not to shrink ... they're almost always guaranteed not to grow either. I bought a stock over 40 years ago for about $4. and change, which at that time paid about a (tax-advantaged) nickel or a dime. Over the years the value of that stock has gone up, down and sideways. I could have sold it last May for about $107. ... and it pays me an annual dividend now of $3.48. There's one catch - it has been doubly involved in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage debacle. The share price dropped to the $80.s, then recovered to near $100., then slipped back into the $80.s ... and in the past few weeks, as the sub-prime issue got more complex, far-reaching and distressng, the share price dropped down through the $70.s, into the $60.s, closing since the first of the year in the $60.s ... and I suspect that the dividend rate will likely be cut. Am I about to sell it? No. I paid $4.20 over 40 years ago, and if I sell now, I deduct the $4.20 amount that I paid from the current $68.20 or so, leaving me with $64.00 capital gain. I divide that by 2, leaving me with $32.00 on which I must pay tax at my usual rate (i.e., added to the top of my other income this year). But it does leave me with the other $32.00 realized free of tax. However, I'm getting close to 80 years of age (79 next Wed.) and my current tax bracket is lower that will be the case if I leave all of those assets intact till I kick the bucket - for then some of them will be taxed at lower rates, but after that's used, others will be taxed at higher rates until they get to the top rate, and my executor will have to pay that on some of those realized capital gains, then. Also ... since I have no spouse (to which the tax-deferred retirement account could be transferred, tax-free at the moment, to be added to her assets, to provide her with income and on her death to have the residue added to her income and taxed then, at whatever rate) they'll be added to my income in that year, as well. Likely taxed at top rate. I've thought of selling some of the stocks that I've held for years, in order to have the taxable portion of the capital gain taxed now, at my usual lower rate ... ... but if I do that, I have fewer dollars to re-invest, to go on not only growing, but adding to earnings in those years, until my demise. As it is, I add those $3,000. or so that I'm required to withdraw from my tax-deferred retirement account annually to my annual income. Do you think that I should follow the advice of some hot-shot financial advisors who tell how to get that payment out tax-free? Borrow $50,000. to invest it in a variety of stocks, using well over $100,000. (I wish!) of stock certificates as collateral, making it a fully secured line of credit, at interest of 6%, i.e $3,000. per year, using my $3,000. annual payout from my retirement account to pay the interest. My deal with the lender is that I pay interest only on the loan. As the loan is used for investment, the interest is deductible. As an old fart that doesn't want to take heavy risks, I invest in some quality Canadian stocks - paying about 3% interest, and as they are taxed at low rate, I have about 2.5% after-tax income, which in other circumstances I would use to help pay the interest on the loan. Suppose I'd borrowed that money 15 years ago, paying interest only through those years. If my Dad died and left me $50,000. as a legacy, and I took it to the bank to pay off the loan, how much would I owe them? That'd be $50,000., right? That would have bought a lot of good things, 15 years ago ... much more than now. I gained from inflation. Suppose you'd put $50,000. into the bank, 15 years ago, and the bank paid you the agreed upon rent on your money, in the years between ... and you went to collect the value of your GIC today ... how much would the bank give you? Right! Exactly $50,000. That would have bought a couple of good cars, 15 years ago ... not now. I gained from inflation ... you lost. Such strategies should be used with discretion, taking into account various possible scenarios, some of them quite unattractive, with the operator able to deal with them without serious inconvenience. I never want to see my friends get margin calls on such loans, unless they're able to meet the shortfall, whether with other assets ... or immediate cash. Good wishes for using both your income and assets increasingly skillfully! As you have further questions, feel free to ask. If some of them seem a bit too private for you to feel comfortable with discussing in this public place, I'm sure that several of us who have responded here would be pleased to offer you our opinions should you contact us privately. ole joyful...See MoreMy Budget: Debt vs. Savings. vs. Retirement
Comments (5)Hi glavinsolo, When you buy your home, do you plan to cash in your MFs in order to achieve a down payment? You don't say what kind they are, but with expected rate of return of 8% I assume that they're equity-based. The expense rate of 0.5% makes me wonder about that, though, as few charge that low. If you plan to liquidate within a couple of years, if the markets go down, you may be an unhappy camper when it comes time to reclaim the investment. On the other hand, if you have the certificates issued, you can take them to a financial institution to use them as collateral for a loan ... ... which will work if your growth rate on the investment is greater than the rate you pay on your mortgage, after allowing for income tax cost and deductibility in each case. That way, you convert that investment from being a short-term one into a longer-term one, which reduces your short-term risk. Be aware, though, that a financial institution will be unwilling to loan you more than 50% (or at most 60%) of the value of the asset. But you carry some risk if you draw near the limit of what they'll allow, for if the value of the asset goes down and slips below double the value of the loan, the lender will want either some cash to reduce the amount of the loan, or some other assets to underwrite the support for the loan. And they'll want it today ... tomorrow at the latest. With regard to the cost of homes, I'm not familiar with the U.S. markets in general, let alone the ones in your area. But some calculate that the tough times in the housing markets are far from over. I think that it would be well for you to carry on some study of what house prices are doing in the area where you prefer to buy. If you buy early, and house prices continue to reduce, you'll be an unhappy camper, then, as well. Mortgage lenders get quite unhappy if the valuation of the house comes rather close to the amount of the mortgage still owing. If the value goes too low, they'll require that you sell it ... at a loss, of course ... ... or they may choose to foreclose, in which case there'd almost surely be more costs if they sell it than if you do. Which could well mean that they'd be notifying you that you owed them the difference between what you owed on the mortgage, plus costs of repossession and sale, less the amount that they sold it for. Not a pleasant scenario. But one that many who accepted those low-rate mortgages a few years ago will be facing. My feeling is that if I wanted to buy a home in the U.S. these days, I'd be keeping my money in my genes (sorry, "jeans") for a while. There are those who claim that I have some frugal chromosomes in my genes, as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, my daughter is considering buying accomodation in Arizona, these days. Good wishes as you make your plans. ole joyful...See MoreWould like opinions owner looking for dog church saved
Comments (11)I'm sorry that trying to do a good deed has left you in this predicament. It sounds like you may not have been privy to what the vet said when he/she examined the dog. Did the woman who took the dog in share the details? Why I am asking is that I rescued a kitten from my front flower bed many years ago and she was lame in one of her front legs. When I took her in to the vet, he said she had brachial palsy. It's an injury an animal can get when the nerves of its brachial plexus is harmed in the birth process or even before. Short of really specialist nerve surgery with questionable outcomes there is nothing they can do for it other than hope the function returns on its own and my vet says nerve repair is very slow and he'd recommend 'sitting on it' to see if it doesn't start to heal on its own, reserving amputation as a last resort. He casted her leg but she kept getting repeat infections where the nails would grown into her flesh under the cast and eventually we had to amputate. Had she not had this problem just letting it dangle was an option. There is a chance this might have been the circumstances of this dog's leg, and if he was not used to being outside, three or four days of wandering is enough time for injuries, infections and tissue death to start. A vet should be able to ascertain how old those injuries are, however and probably a tech could as well. And how many really responsible and caring pet owners have raised questions on this board about skin conditions their dogs have and are resistant to treatment? I had a little lhasa whom I poured months and mega money into with horrible skin problems until my vet hit on the proper diagnoses and treated him with antibiotics. It was a resistant bacterial infection and had nothing to do with fleas or flea allergies or neglect. You don't know the circumstances. I know what I would do and it's a pity the new owner doesn't do it, and that is to contact the party who lost this dog, and tell them she has it and that she has already invested expenses into caring for it. If the new owner is so convinced that the dog had been abused then she should contact a humane officer and let them persue the issue or let her hash it out herself with the previous owners. Somebody needs to tell the people searching for this dog that it has been found and be upfront about it and they need to know its where it can be found and it doesn't have to be anonymously. The person who took this animal has been around long enough to know the routine and take responsibility for their actions even if they were legitimate and for all the right reasons. You don't need to feel guilty about finding it a home, nor obliged to the woman who took it in. But it isn't fair to the owners to never know what happened to it. If you got a flyer in your mail box then they are actively looking for it and they wouldn't be if it isn't valuable or they didn't give a flying fig. Tell them where you took it and let the lady who has it do what she feels is right. There isn't any need to be secretive to avoid anything. What is right isn't always what is easiest. If she can prove the animal has been abused or neglected, the authorities can sort it out....See MoreWhat is the Point - Saving for Retirement?
Comments (42)Both of my grandparents stayed at home until they were in their late 80's and then Mama had no choice but to put them into a nursing home. My GF lived about 3 years after and my GM is still living. She turned 100 in Sept. She has very good care and is the favorite in the home. She has a double room and has been lucky for the most part about room-mates but she has had a couple that were a chore to deal with. When they retired they had a substantial amount of savings and their home with a few acres of land. We hired one of the home health aides to come spend the night with them for a few months but were paying out about $300 a week and all she was doing was sleeping there. Anyway now my GM has been in the home for about 13 years and all of her money is gone. She gets $30 a month and goes to the beauty shop in the home once a week and the family pays for her TV and phone and any other things she needs. Her money was building up in her account and they told my sister that we needed to spend some of it because she wasn't allowed to have but a certain amount and she was over the limit. Family members moved into their home for a few years and then when it was vacated we sold it and the money went to the home. We had no problem with that. They've taken good care of her and know they will continue to. The main point is that people save their money for their old age and then when they get their and need it for health care the other family members often think it should be theirs. Yes, we've paid taxes most of our lives but nobody can live on the amount of taxes you pay in for a month. Probably the best solution would be to go back to many years ago where extended families just built onto the family home and the kids stayed after marriage and were there to help care for the elderly family members (great-grandparents) and the grandparents are there to baby sit for the grandchildren. Thus cutting out a lot of expenses. Of course we've gone away from this custom for too many years for most to want to do it. G'nite John-Boy! lol Nancy...See Moremaifleur01
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