Sherrmann: I don't know how to do italics either, so I'm just going to use the age old quotes, should I quote you. =0) The different systems were all listed on a website at one time, but it was several months ago, I believe it's "hillaries" plan that has the communist bent I mentioned (though I could be wrong on that....). Obama had one that makes a immediate "check-up" mandatory, though I don't remember what happens if you tell them to pound sand. "WHY ARE YOU NOT BOTHERED BY THAT?" Who says I'm not?!? Ok, I'm not as bothered by companies restricting the folks who choose to use their company, because each and every one of those folks have the choice not to give that company their money. (I also understand that those companies have made agreements with the doctors on their list, that they can only charge their people certain amounts, thus saving the insurance company and the consumer both money. Thus the reasons for the lists.... of course you can go outside your system, but the company will only pay the amount they have worked out with the doctor on their list... you will have to pay the rest.) Consumers seem to have forgotten that what they buy, they get. If there is not an option out there that they find ok, then they have the choice not to buy at all. We had a post either here or in the money saving forum that proves that point to the letter. Someone wanted to be able to pay their bill by phone without charge. At least 5 folks came on saying that they should just accept what the company offered, even if it wasn't what they wanted. Excuse me WHAT?!?!?!? Why the heck should we do that? There are too many companies offering similar services to settle for what one company offers. My dad just had a woman for a satellite company tell him that he had to either pay $70 for a service call, or pay a monthly fee to have them come out and fix their equipment, that there was no other choice. She was actually shocked to find out that HIS choice would involve a rival company and NOT paying this company's bogus fees. (they came out and fixed their stuff without charge) Yes, I know, just like that lady on the phone, many believe that they do not have a choice in the insurance company they choose. It's simply not true. You always have a choice. It may be between something bad and something worse, but it is still a choice. "I DON'T THINK IT IS OK FOR "SOME OF US TO FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS." NO ONE IS MORE ENTITLED TO GOOD HEALTH CARE THAN ANYONE ELSE." No, it's not "OK", but it IS going to happen. No matter how good the system it's still run by people, and people aren't perfect. There are folks in every system in the world falling through those cracks. Are wealthy people "entitled" to more/better care simply because they can pay for it themselves? As much as it seems to go against the grain, and that I hate the word "entitled"....... Yes. In the same way as they are "entitled" to better houses, better cars, and even better tvs. They can pay to fly to where ever the expert in their particular problem is, they can afford to stay as long as they need to in that area, they can afford the fees that the best can charge. They can also chase all over the world for the latest "cure" not available here, to the scientists and the wackos who they think can help. They can pay to have a private nurse come to their home and stay with them for 24 hours a day for months and/or years. And as much as many may hate it, those wealthy folks chasing the fountain of youth, allow the experts to volunteer their time helping those that may not have as much. Allows them to charge less if anything to those who can not afford to pay. And in the case of a home health nurse... pays a living salary for someone else. This does not mean that everyone should not be able to get some basic care. It does not mean that everyone should be able to get good care. And if you need me to pay for your basic health care, then you should be willing to go through the systems currently in place. They may be broken, but they are in place. Somehow it seems to speak to the "throw away" society we have become that no one is interested in fixing what we have, they just want to go out and buy "healthcare 2.0". Kidney cancer (hopefully you are doing better now) is not a minor ailment. I believe that the comment was directed at those who could not be bothered to take a few hours off work to take a kid with a cold to the regular doctor. Anyone who has ever been in an ER has seen the number of folks with routine care concerns that are filling up the seats and bogging down the staff. Each and every one of those folks are going to be charged ER rates, which is probably 2-3 times more than a regular office visit, even including the time off work. Which may have something to do with Americans "paying twice as much" for care than other parts of the world, if in fact we do. If we do it is probably the ONLY thing we pay more for. I believe that I am intelligent enough to make my own decisions, and am old enough to take responsibility for my own actions or inactions. Whatever they may be. I wonder how many folks will be thrown into financial trouble by these plans (even those without a communist bent). With many living paycheck to paycheck and that's without insurance... how much worse off will those that we are supposedly trying to "help" be? How many will tank out and go under with the additional tax burden? Yes, it sounds good as long as you do not scratch the surface. So did ARM's and IO loans not too long ago......

Dedtired...I too had to pay the same the year before Medicare. When on Cobra it is required that the HI take you and cannot deny due to pre-existing conditions. Was with mine for 5 years, but they just kept kicking up the premiums to the last year at 759 a mo. At 65 I found a supplement plan for $90 a month, they pay 100% of what is left after Medicare regardless of the need. Signed for 3 years option to keep the monthly cost. Every year after the 3 it goes up now about 20%, but the coverage remains the same. This year could be the last to afford them. No other insurance will cover me if I lose this. So I'll be in the same situation as many of you. A broker told me that with specific medications and/or condition, a company adds about $50 per item to the monthly cost...if they will even accept you. Health Insurance is for the wealthy or healthy. I'm with all of you, what to do without insurance and am floored by the many posting here without. I know what my medical costs will be for a year and weigh that in to the insurance cost to me...for now. Have mentioned more than once to others that if my IQ was even 1 level down, would never figure any of this out. And the older we get the worse it is to know what to do. Medicare changes are two thick books and one had best know what is and isn't. They have taken away 2/3 of the approved medications. When I asked the pharmacy about one of mine, he said it was due to too many falls from the elderly using it. Jeesh, I use it to keep from falling. We are all in trouble health wise, growing older with all the new research to resolve so many conditions isn't going to do any of us any good. Health insurance will be too costly to utilize great advances. Admission I do not understand what is being created for health coverage by the gov. It eludes me with crazy details. OT. Our state now has a law that if you are stopped for anything when driving or get in an accident and taking a medication that cautions driving while using it, they can charge you with a DUI. I'm waiting for a DUI law because of my age.

Chelone, I'm sad to hear that your mother has had to cope with some cancer. It is hard to deal with that - even if one's trouble is of one's own making. My family has a history of weak lungs, which I share. I started to smoke at age 16 and after a few months decided that I didn't care for either the taste or, being frugal, the cost - so quit. Now enjoying good health at age 75, I'm very thankful that I had the common snense to do that. And often suggest to others that I hope that they decide to quit, so increase their chances of enjoying such a prolonged and healthy retirement, as well. I try not to come off judgementally about it - and few have given a surly response. Some have thanked me. Hayjud, I hope that you were not upset by my rather joking and somewhat smart-assed suggestion that you consider moving to Canada. Seriously, have you considered taking on a part-time project to produce some income? The nice thing is that you are your own boss, you can do the kind of thing that you are interested in and good at, and can do whatever you choose at your own speed. You don't have the pressure to produce enough to live on - as you had planned to get along on the retirement income that was already in place. I subscribe to a newsletter that discussed some of the issues related to that just this week - can send you URL if you wish (don't know it at present - but can look it up). On the internet might be possible. Some sell on ebay, etc. I feel that it would be preferable if you have knowledge that you can sell, whether by newsletter, ezine, etc. Possibly even personal consultation, whether on the internet or even by phone. Easy to send the messages - better than having to wrap and ship products, I think. I find that it is difficult to find people to reply showing interest in your offer, let alone subscribing, for there is so much material there already. Many don't like what they see and have been turned off regarding the whole thing. I have an idea that might be of interest, which I've checked out around here, but have minimal information that might be helpful to you. Good wishes as you proceed with your retirement. I hope that you enjoy it and have the good helath to be able to do a number of the things that you've looked forward to doing for a number of recent years. joyful

frmrsdghtr - you summed it up perfectly. We live in Ontario and are under 65 - not by much, but still, under 65, which does make a difference (joyfulguy - you are over 65 so would benefit from many things that we do not). OHIP (the Ontario Health Plan) is about to cut many services (eyes - and I don't mean "normal" eye care) - I mean for people like my husband who has had a vitrectomy and cataract surgery. People who are diabetics often have major eye problems etc. and this will affect them - and not all are obese. My husband's eyes are bad enough that one of his eye specialists (he has 3) has been able to run his quarterly eye tests through OHIP, but at his May 8 appointment he was told that he would not be able to do this any longer - and his office plan won't cover it. My husband pays high premiums for family coverage (just the two of us) - yet has deductibles of $1,250 for EACH of medical and dental - so we basically pay for everything due to the deductibles - and since he has only one prescription for eye drops and I have one prescription we are not your "normal" Cdns. Even his office health care provider remarked that for people paying such high premiums we had very few claims (well, they wouldn't pay for his vitrectomy rehab equipment, nothing towards his sleep apnea dental appliance, his office dental plan does not cover specialists (and his regular dentist - an oral surgeon, no longer does root canals) plus there is the deductible problem. Back in the day your GP could zap a wart - now you need to be referred to a derm (heck, I could do it). I had several moles develop suddenly on my neck last year - it took over 6 months to get a derm appointment - and that was with a different derm - first one was going to be 9 months - and both required referrals from my GP. Yet, if I wanted to have something cosmetic done, I could have been seen next day. I have searched the OHIP site but little has been posted yet. The news showed the cost of the glaucoma test being $63.00 with OHIP paying the doctors $25.00 - but that must be for the cost of the equipment, because my husband pays over $200 for each test, so I think they need to get the facts straight. Fees to radiologists are being cut back which will affect mammograms (techs do the mammos but they are read by the radiologist so I guess backlog will come into play, and EKGs. Certain heart tests are being cut as well. I know that if you need a lower back X-Ray it will have to be seriously justified by your doctor. Every time I am supposed to have a bone density test (despite confirming day before) I arrive and am told that I can't have it for another year or two - but I am welcome to pay for it. I fully expect to never be able to get one again! According to my pharmacist, retired people post 65 can have their prescriptions covered, but they must take Generic pills. I can't take Generics - it isn't the meds factor, it is the non-medicinal ingredients I am allergic to - as are many others - and many seniors are paying the substantial difference themselves. My husband recently had a discussion with a N.Y. taxi driver who told him how lucky he was to live in Canada where dental, medical and vision (even glasses) are 100% paid for. My husband tried to set him straight - but the guy didn't believe him. I have had the same discussions in the U.S. and people think I am wrong. As if, I live here. My husband's cousin had to travel from Ontario to the Mayo Clinic to be diagosed with ALS (no one saw that one coming). She had been falling down for well over a year and it was going to take her another year to be seen by a specialist - so they paid to go to Mayo - and this was the horrible result. She is 54 years old. I know what the cost was to go to the Mayo Clinic and I think they could have bought a house in Michigan for less. If we need an MRI we can get it much more quickly in the U.S. - but we have to pay for it. Same with tests for prostate cancer etc. Is our health care better than what you have in the U.S. - DEFINITELY. Is it the health care that people think we have - NO. And let's not forget that we pay very high taxes and do not enjoy the many deductions that Americans have. There would have to be some give and take for the Americans to have our plans. Of course people who work for the government or are represented by strong unions (teachers, postal workers etc.) have excellent pension plans and retirement benefits. The average person working in private business does not. That would be us. If we take out private plans such as Blue Cross the costs are high - much like in the U.S. - and coverage is minimal - not to mention that everything seems to be pre-existing. When you read the list I don't think there is anything that the normal person hasn't experienced at least once in their respective lifetime. This is definitely not the time for my husband to be facing retirement - the economy is horrible - here as well - and we have been earning nil on our investment funds. But our banking laws are a lot better! Actually, the mail just arrived - bringing with it a letter from my husband's GP advising of the cost of this year's premium to cover non-insured services - I have the same with my doctor - it is about $100 - $125.00 for individual coverage. I am very happy with his doctor - for the first time they are offer fees for Individuals, COUPLES, or Families. There are many couples such as us who pay for people with several kids etc., yet we do not get one single tax break - period.