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sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Posted by maschu (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 2, 07 at 16:15

I have a water line and a septic discharge line passing through a poured basement wall. Water is getting into the basement around these pipes. What is the best/most effective way to seal around these pipes to keep the water out of the basement.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Hydraulic cement. It will expand slightly when it dries to form a tight seal. it will also dry in the presence of water.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE HYDRAULIC CEMENT or any other cement product.

The Plumbing codes require that when a pipe passes through a masonary wall the pipe must be sleeved.

To make a sleeve a section of pipe two nominal trade sizes larger than the desired pipe is passed through the wall with 2" to 3" extending out either side of the wall. The sleeve pipe may be sealed with mortar, tar, expansion foam or any other suitable means.

The desired pipe is then passed through the sleeve and the space between the inner wall of the sleeve and the desired pipe is filled with expansion foam.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

I have a feeling the sealing is a local codes issue. One house I had had the grey water waste pipe through the poured concrete foundation sealed with oakum and some kind of hardened covering material. The foundation cracked from the hole up to the top and I sealed it by digging down on the outside, Ving out the crack, filling the crack with silicon sealer, replacing the oakum packing with fresh oakum, and slathering hydraulic patching cement on the area. That was over 25 years ago----does not leak to this day.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

The method I described for installing a pipe through a masonary wall is not a local code issue. It has been required by all major national codes for years. In fact, the 1920 IRC required sleeves.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

The wall the original poster has is poured concrete---not masonry. I have never seen a sleeved pipe access through a poured concrete wall when the hole is made after the wall is poured.

The standard method of prelocating a hole in a poured concrete wall is to position a sleeve where the hole is needed.

Both procedures follow the local codes for poured concrete walls in my location.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Isn't poured concrete considered to be masonry?


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Whether the sleeve is put in the form before they pour the concrete or a hole is drilled through the concrete later, in either case, the codes require a sleeve. If your contractor failed to do the job right that is a topic you should address to with the contractor, but his or her failure to do a job correctly is not bona fide evidence of a variation in procedure.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Ok, I will believe you----but I am not speaking of one or two instances----more like 20 or 30----instances in different houses, in different cities, and different local code areas. Plus how the inspectors inspected the HfH houses I helped build over a 7 year period---never said anything about that particular requirement.

We did use the inserts in the ICF houses we built for HfH---but that was for electrical/cable installation, since all the other utilities came through the slab----but were not sleeved there either.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself.

International Residential Code IRC-2603.3, IRC 2603.4 & Irc 2603.5

Uniform Plumbing Code UPC-313.10.1 & UPC-313.10.3


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Someone lost the topic.

How it is supposed to have been done was not the question.

How to fix the problem now is.
(BTW: Masonary is considered to be concrete block; poured solid concrete walls are not masonary.)

I too have a 6" PVC pipe (no visible sleave) through a poured wall. NO builder to go back on. Hydrolic cement has been added on the INSIDE. Digging now to get to the outside (5 ft down). Water FLOODS through a small opening under the pipe when it rains. Looking for the best EXTERIOR fix.

Got any "on topic" suggestions?

Thanks!


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Any attempt at an exterior fix will only make the problem worse. The soil on the outside of the wall should be settled by now and any attempt at digging will only loosen that soil and make ground water penetration worse.

The proper solution is to first remove the hydraulic cement from the inside, then clean out the hole as far back as you can and fill the hole with expanded foam.

And for the record, under the plumbing codes any material whether it is brick, block or natural field stone fitted with mortar or cast concrete is considered a masonry product. The concern is that both plastic and metal pipes have a much greater co-efficient of thermal expansion than the masonry product, therefore the end result is undue friction against the pipe wall causing deterioration of the pipe. In addition, the lime in the mortar or concrete will react with metal pipes and cause corrosion and premature failure of the pipe.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

"In fact, the 1920 IRC required sleeves."

1920 IRC?

There is no "1920" IRC.

The 1st IRC Code published was in the year 2000.

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A simple method to repair the problem from the outside is to dig down to expose the pipe, then generously trowel (ie. a small margin trowel) some roof flashing compound (tar) around the pipe....


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Once again Manhattan has seized upon a trivial fact to try to impress us that he/she is a plumber.

It is true that the IRC was first published in 2000 but ask yourself this, where did the IRC originate? Surely he doesn't want us to believe there were no plumbing codes prior to 2000.

The fact of the matter is that the International Code Commission generates code for all the construction disciplines, I.E. International Plumbing Code, International Electrical Code (based on the NEC-National Electrical Code), International Gas Code, International Structural Code, and the list goes on and on.

The International Plumbing Code is an extremely complex document covering all aspects of plumbing to include residential, commercial, institutional and industrial plumbing.

In the year 2000 they first published the IRC as a simplified version of the IPC to cover single family and multi-family dwellings, where the term multi-family defines any structure with two or more living units, but not more than 4 living units and not greater than 3 stories in height.

Any dwelling structure with 5 or more dwelling units or greater than 3 stories in height is defined as a commercial multi-family dwelling and is governed by the IPC.

If we trace the origins of the IPc we find that it was in fact originally based upon a code that was published in Philadelphia, Pa by Benjamin Franklin in 1743.

Now in regards to sleeving a pipe through a brick, stone, or concrete wall, I have no idea when the requirement first began, but it is listed in the 1852 International Plumbing Code.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

"Once again Manhattan has seized upon a trivial fact to try to impress us that he/she is a plumber."

And once again, lazypup has tried to baffle the uninformed with BS by pretending to be a 'plumber' and a 'code' expert when he is obviously neither.

And again, lazypup would rather set up a 'straw man' argument about 'Plumbing codes' and the history of 'Plumbing codes', when 'Plumbing codes' are not now and never have been an issue in this thread.

The poor chap who posted the original query simply wants to know how to correct his existing leaking foundation at the building drain penetration, and lazypup wants to lecture him and us about about 'Plumbing Codes'.

That would be fine if lazypup had mastery of the 'Plumbing Codes' subject, but he does not.

And it would be fine if this was a building currently being constructed, but it isn't.

This is an EXISTING STRUCTURE that needs a repair, and a structure the International Existing Building Code and other codes say DO NOT HAVE TO BE REPAIRED TO ANY CURRENT CODE STANDARD.

But if lazypup was real plumber or a real code official...he would know that.
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'Sleeving' to correct this problem only adds unecessary cost to the project.

The same results can be achieved using roof flashing tar on the outside of the foundation, polyurethane caulking on the outside of the foundation, or other water-proofing coatings on the outside to achieve the desired results.

All at a cheaper cost that cutting the pipe, cutting the concrete foundation, and installing a sleeve.

And perfectly "Code Compliant" options, to boot.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

How would you seal a PVC pipe through the side of a cement water tank?


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

I say you get an appropriate waterstop solution from a manufacturer like Greenstreak

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenstreak


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Our well pipe comes through a block basement wall about 5 ft above the floor. The penetration is a rough hole with no sleeve. About 15 yrs ago I filled the hole around the pipe with expanding foam insulation to keep mice out. We have had water problems in other areas of the basement,not there, and had an inside trench and sump pump installed 8 yrs ago. In the last 2 months, water has trickled in through the well pipe hole. Had an excavator come in and replace a silted over french drain behind the house with new drain line carrying runoff 50 ft away. Water still trickles in with heavy rain and I would like to re-seal the hole. Should I clean out and re-apply the expanding foam, use hydraulic cement (will it expand and wear/crack the plastic pipe?), use epoxy or some other water proofing compound? To do any more excavation outside would involve tearing up the deck.


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

Hydraulic cement will cause a hard fixed penetration and may coimpress the pipe. You need something flexible like a butyl sealer. Assuming you have a point where everything is dry. Pack the annulus with rigid styrofoam insulation and then seal the perimeter with some butyl. .


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RE: sealing around a pipe through a cement wall

NP-1 is a urethane sealant that should work very well.


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