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word_doc

Sagging Floor Joists in a house we are buying

word_doc
18 years ago

Hi, there. I usually post on the Home Buying & Selling forum, but this is more specifically a home repair issue, so I thought I'd give it a shot in this forum.

We are probably going to buy a house we are now renting. We are actually under contract to buy it, and the seller was kind enough to allow us to rent it a few months before closing (various reasons for that, not important to this issue).

We had a home inspection done a few weeks ago, and the inspector found sagging floor joists under the house. The "piers" are apparently ok, but the joists in some areas have some dry rot. This was not a surprise, since the floors in the house are somewhat "wavy."

The home was built in 1977 and is in TN. It's a crawlspace construction, and there are two floors.

There is also some mold under the house, but I'm told it has not extended to the subfloor and is fixable. The fix will require removing the insulation, but this is not that bad of a thing because I understand that it will be hard to fix the joist problem while trying to work around and salvage the insulation.

I also have been advised as to the solution for preventing future moisture problems under the house, so that these problems will not occur in the future once the current damage is fixed.

My questions, though, are more about the floor joist situation. One contractor who came by to check things out advised me that there are two fixes. One is to jack the house up and replace the damaged joists. The other is to sort of "sister" new joists alongside the old. That would not fix the wavy floors but would stabilize the flooring structure and keep the sag from getting worse.

It seems to me that the "jacking" situation is the preferable solution, although I'm also pretty sure it will be quite a bit more expensive. We are not paying for these repairs, by the way.

I'm sort of a little concerned because there has been no mention of calling in a structural engineer. It seems to me that this would be a situation that calls for one. Am I overblowing the potential seriousness of the situation? Is my understanding that the "jacking up" solution would be a better fix accurate?

Thanks for any light you can shed. And if any engineers should happen on this and want to opine--thanks. (And please dumb it down a bit; as my user name suggests, I am a word person and not a numbers person, hehehe.)

Comments (17)

  • sdello
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wood has a lot of give and will "creep" with time. Sagging floors do not necessarily mean that premature failue is likely. However, it does mean that the floors are not level and flat. Tables and furniture will then also not be level.

    If the sag is because the wood is rotted then they may continue to deflect and the situation gets worse.

    As you said, the options are stiffen the floors in thier current deflected condition and hopefully arrest any further deflection or to restore the floors to a level condition and then strengthen the system to keep it level.

    The decision is yours and whether you want to live with floors that are not plumb. this assumes that there is not some inherent problem with the existing system.

    If it we're me and I wasn't paying for the repair, I'd be inclined to have it corrected completely instead of simply patching the warped floors.

    HTH
    My 0.02

  • handymac
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Contractors are taught to build things. They seldom go back later---later being several years---to check their work`. Home inspectors see the years later results of contractors work. Inspectors also see the effect of non standard conditions---those often experienced by a structure that were not anticipated by the designer/contractor.

    So, I have done contract building, following local codes for design and material. I have also seen instances where those code compliant practices failed.

    Get a home inspector to look at the house. Then sit down with the seller and all the info and decide which repair is best for you both.

  • word_doc
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much for the responses. I did actually have a home inspector look at the house (that's how we found the problem). We're now at the repair stage and so far, they've had three contractors out to look at the problems.

    What does "deflect" mean in this instance? I'm having a hard time squaring its use here with the way I usually see it used. I know it's a word used in this kind of situation, but I don't understand what it means. Sagging? Help?

  • kudzu9
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the floors were perfectly rigid and true, there would be no deflection. The word deflection in this instance means how much of a gap there is between the low points of the floor and a perfectly flat straightedge laid across the floor...so, yes, it's the amount of sag. Also, when floors don't have enough stiffening or strong enough joists, they are bouncy and are said to deflect when you walk on them.

  • sdello
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sorry,

    "deflection" as used here means vertical displacement of the beam. If you take a board and support it on stands at the the ends, then apply a load, say a point load at midspan, the beam will "deflect" downward. If you have not overstressed the beam, when you remove the load it will return to its original position.

    Beam deflection under its own weight, without applying additional load, is often referred to as "sag".

    If the beam deflects more with time and no increase in load, the additional deflection is called creep.

    HTH

  • kudzu9
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sdello-
    I agree with you from an engineering perspective, and not to start an argument, but I think the answer being sought is what it means in practical/lay terms in regard to this less-than-perfect floor.

  • word_doc
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That was actually helpful. Thanks so much. I like to be able to talk to people using their lingo, but I don't want to make a fool of myself. It will help with the contractors who come out to discuss/repair this problem.

    I could probably actually live with most of the sag as it is, as long as I knew it was not going to deteriorate. There is one area (right near the opening to the crawlspace, near one corner of the house but not at the actual corner) that I would probably want jacked up a bit. The rest I could probably live with if they repaired it enough so that it wouldn't be an issue if we decided to sell again, and so that it would strengthen the joists and keep the problem from getting worse.

  • sdello
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    kudzu-
    no problem. I just typed a response of how I used the term in my previous post. If you look at the posting times we were typing at the same time and I didn't see your post until mine had already been sent. I wasn't commenting on your answer, if fact I think it's says the same thing (which is always reassuring!) LOL

  • kudzu9
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sdello-
    Thanks for clarifying. Sometimes I try to get inside people's heads when I answer and I went for the simple version. Between the two of us, it looks like he got what he needed.

  • fixinfool
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I read the sagging floor posts with great interest. I have a 40 some year old house built on clay soil near Raleigh, NC with moisture problems and rotten floor joists and concave floors.The part of the house with this problem is 28' by 29'on a concrete block foundation with pier and beam at midspan and the joists are on 24" centers. I've taken the siding off the front up to the bottom of the wall and am sliding new 16' 2x10 treated joists in to sister them next to the old ones.(the joists will be connected front to back with a lap joint) I've supported the front wall with a 4'x6' beam while I do this. I've replaced about a quarter of the joists so far.The part I'm not sure about is jacking them up when I'm finished to level the floor. Does anyone out there have experience with this? And how's your house coming, Word Doc?

  • lightingbolt
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    to fixinfool whether or not to use jacks is really up to you and the amount of damage done to the joist and how far it's sagged but to jack you need to do this before tying your sisters in raise and level slowly with two or three jacks depending on room under the house make sure to block securely after raising. good luck.

  • dogeatshouse
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Word Doc do you have the name of the guys who did the work for you? Living in Nashville and looking for exactly the same for my old plaster walled house.

  • sherrielynn
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello WordDoc, We've lived in TN long enough to speak 'tennessee talk'. In just a couple years you will be saying 'y'all' and mis-pronouncing words ending in 'ing'. We have house with similar problems. Can you tell me the names of the men who worked for you?

  • buddy_gonewiththewind_com
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My advice is to not believe any one telling you that only certain areas need repair. Look yourself and test yourself and you will see yourself. I know of a situation in hand now where a termite inspector stated that some water damage was only minor and only four joist needed repair. The family took his word and only later found out that a paper was hidden in the paperwork from the Century 21 agent that revealed other damage. They bought the home and now they know the extent. It is a brick home which means more hard work to replace each and every joist including the central joist as all are turned to powder and cannot even be jacked up without falling apart. They were misled by a termite inspector and the real estate agent selling a home for 80,000 plus that is no good for anything except the outside brick on it. May God save them.

  • joed
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This post is 3 years old. I sure hope they made a decision by now.

  • kweymouth
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know this was years ago but does anyone have the contact info for the people who fixed your floor joists issue in nashville. We are moving and have the same issue in a house we are looking to buy,

    Thanks. You can email me
    Kellyobar@me.com