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msjay2u

Making mental addition plans

msjay2u
9 years ago

Hello all, I was thinking of adding an addition to my house which would consist of a bedroom, closet and bath and transforming my porch into a sun room (all are attached). The steps I was thinking and the associated questions are:
1- get an engineer to draw up the plans. Do the plans also have a materials list?
2- get a quote on the materials and set a place for storing them
3- ask about the necessary permits.
then I am thinking the order of work is:
1- foundation (thinking of a poured foundation vs a framed one)
2- framing
3. roof
4- insulation and exterior wrap
5. windows
6- electrical
7-- plumbing
8- heating tie in/ duct work
9- subfloors
10- siding
11- drywall
12- floors
13- move in

What am I missing? That sounds too easy.

Comments (13)

  • handymac
    9 years ago

    First would be the permitting. Local restrictions on setbacks/utility access/etc. might impact the area you wish to use. Many times a rough drawing with dimensions will be enough to get a ruling on whether you can proceed.

    Then find a architect/engineer to draw plans. If you are hiring the work done, finding a company with architect/general contractor is often better, since those folks work together.

    If you are doing the work yourself, storing materials can be expensive/problematic unless you have on site facilities. Example: I helped a neighborhood group rehab a house in the neighborhood and offered to store most of the material in my garage.(The materials were donated by a local Home Depot). Four pallets, several stacks of framing lumber, and 20 rolls of insulation. That lasted 9 months. And that was a smaller job than you propose.

    The order of work is ok---plumbing/electrical/HVAC can often be done in the same time period.

  • msjay2u
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    thanks. Permits was number three because the room is no way near my property lines and I do not believe there are any restrictions on where I can put it, because of the size that I am talking about. It will add aprox 34 x 13 to the footprint. the sun room is already a porch complete with roof and my addition will slide right on the side of it.
    A few years ago I converted a porch to a room and it was pretty simple to do. No permits involved with that one although technically I should have since I changed the utility of the room ran new electricity, etc. It cost me less than a thousand. Permitting says if you get caught you pay a fine and have to get permits, if you finish without getting caught they leave you alone but good luck on selling the place. I have not decided if I was going to get permits or not because if I get the permits myself I have to do all the work...no contractors, otherwise I have to get a contractor to pull the permits for me and of course he is going to want to do the work and then the project is out of my price range. I need another bedroom but don't really have $20k to put into an addition. At this point I am only making mental plans..gathering my thoughts.
    Oh and I do have a large barn that I was planning on buying materials and storing until I have the bulk of what I need. If I can get a material list. Its a large barn, and waterproof.
    Here is my idea and I am not even sure if that is entirely too large. On paper it still looks small LOL I am not sure if I am dreaming or planning at this point. Hopefully planning. Will an engineer draw up the plans for me and also provide a materials list? About how much does that cost do you know?
    {{gwi:2137095}} {{gwi:2137096}}

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    No way can you do that project for under 20K. Double that at a minimum. I spent more than that on a garage, and it had no plumbing. And we did all of the work ourselves.

  • msjay2u
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    LOL really? I had an idea that was going to be the answer. maybe I can scale it down a bit? I am thinking it is too large. did you buy all new materials or did you buy from places like Habitat? If you don't mind can you kind if give me a break down of the costs and what size your garage came out to be? thanks.

  • handymac
    9 years ago

    Code procedures change slightly with different locations, but I have never heard the one about HO(home owner) pulled permits prohibiting using a contractor.

    Locally, when the HO pulls a building permit, there are no requirements on who does the actual work, the requirement is all work passes inspection.

    I agree your proposed plan cannot be done, even DIY, for $20K. The foundation alone(requires an experienced company with forms) would be $5K and probably more.

    Have you thought about how the new roof line would be incorporated into the existing roof? That would probably mean reframing a section of the old---unless the existing roof line is a gable roof with the gables front and rear. That is another $3K minimum(done DIY) and probably closer to $5K.

    Locally, that amount of addition done by pros would be closer to $60K and a combination of pro/DIY coming in at $40K.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    A friend had a small porch converted to a room and it was $30K+. That was about 25 years ago.

  • mag77
    9 years ago

    You're getting good advice here. Codes have changed a lot the last few years. Don't take chances, talk to your code department before you do anything. You'll probably find pulling your own permit will allow you to hire subcontractors. Think things through, make a plan, then think again. I'd buy materials as needed to avoid handling them over and over. I took 2011 off and built our house - dug the footings, framed, sheathed, roofed, drywalled, tiled - everything but electrical, plumbing and HVAC and it still cost $80/sq.ft. You need to save up more money. Good luck to you.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    I think I read here that if a homeowner pulls permits, they become the responsible party, considered the gc. We can't pull for electrical or plumbing. Be sure you understand the technicalities and ramifications first.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    My garage/workshop is 1500 square feet and heated and cooled, with a 200 amp sub-panel to run the lathe, welders and other machinery, so above most people's standard for a garage, but less than a house with plumbing fixtures to account for. It cost 45 K, 15 years ago. Almost all DIY labor. About 10K of paid labor during the initial phase only.

    The only thing we paid labor for was the excavation (4K) and concrete placement (3K), and termite pre-treatment (1K). We did the sand placement and leveling (required by code) formwork, rebar and wire laying, vapor barrier, and PEX tubing lay for the radiant heat, and they just showed up and placed the concrete and finished it. The concrete itself was around 5K if I recall because we upped the portland ratio for higher strength. Add in the formwork material, sand, rebar and wire, and other assorted materials, and just getting to the finished slab was around 16K. And took 5 months, because we broke ground in the third rainiest spring in local history.

    Funnily enough, fools that we were, we had a contractor quote us 12K to get us to finished slab, and we blew him off as being ''too high''. We learned better. For sure. And he would have had the headaches to deal with of the excavator hitting the water line to the house because it was incorrectly marked by the utility company. (They marked the underground electrical.) That was our baby to fix, mud, hastily purchased trash water pump, and all the rest.

    While you could halve some of those material costs for half of the square footage, not everything can be purchased in quantities that would make that feasable. There is a certain basement to construction costs no matter the square footage of the end product. And costs have done nothing but increase in that 15 years. It might not be quite double to do the same structure today, but I'd bet it would be close.

    Did I mention that it took FOREVER to do this rather simplistic rectangular structure? When you DIY, you pay for it in time rather than money.

  • msjay2u
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Talking about a bubble bust lol. My whole house only cost $75k and that kind of investment in the addition would not be returned. Mexicans do it around here all the time and I know they are not spending that much. I converted my porch into a room and it cost me less than $1k including windows using salvaged materials. I am sure about pulling my own permits vs having a GC. I talk to the city quite a bit about it already. Thanks for all your input. Perhaps I have to revamp my plan... Make my room smaller. Not build the foundation on a slab etc thanks again

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    The porch I mentioned was an open shed porch. I don't remember if it was originally a wood deck floor or slab but a new stone floor was installed. Needed walls, windows, a door, heating, etc and probably got a new roof. Very small porch though! I thought they got ripped at the time. Mid $30K's. But could have included other things.

  • GreenDesigns
    9 years ago

    I rebuilt a south facing sunroom/oven as an addition to our great room. We had to dig down and expose the footings to get the OK to reuse them as support as part of the house instead or a ''porch or accessory structure''. We also had to upgrade the electrical to the room and reframe it, adding insulation and all new windows and a french door. The roof section was entirely reframed from a shed off of the main roof to a higher shed, originating at the peak of the main roof. We did this as a part of a total roof repacement, as it made sense to combine the two projects since it would need to be re-roofed anyway. We spent 30K on the project, just materials, with us DIYing the labor.

  • msjay2u
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    If I added 380 sq ft which I would consider the minimum for a bedroom, walk in closet and small bath I could probably sell my house for $120k. I already put $15k in it so spending $30k would make me even if I was to sell. Not that I am but I never want to be negative. Yup I thought the most $15k the absolute most with the plumbing only roughed in. And that's considering surprises. That what hgtv does to ruin you because they show these fantastic renovations for pennies. Unrealistic!!! Thanks for all your great input!