Is that a legal bedroom? Is there an outside escape route?

Oh yeah. The window in it is pretty big. Taller than it looks in this photo since the realtor used a wide angle lens. The house is a backsplit but they pourd the basement all at the same level....but then they raised up the bedroom and bath anyway..? Not sure why. Security isn't a concern with this bedroom, this place is In The Woods. And we're in Canada.

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 8:03

Side note: we've seen a LOT of weird stuff looking at summer homes. Why do people think it's a good idea to design them themselves?

Yeah, that window will not make that a legal bedroom. You need to have TWO ways to exit and there are clear opening rules as well as sill heights. I would be careful if i were you about how you approach making an offer. Of course you may be able to use this to your advantage as technically this is only a 2 bedroom house as is.

Two egress? I've never heard that before. There's a big window in the room that more than satisfies the minimum clear opening and is within the maximum height off the floor, there's a door to the basement, then there's a stair up to the first floor and a big door out of the basement. How much more egress does a person need? I don't think any of the bedrooms in my five bedroom house would have any more egress than that.

(PS our code is 5 feet from floor and 3.7 clear opening up here, but I think this would satisfy even stricter codes)

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 10:01

Yup, not a legal bedroom. What you might do to make it less wierd (after fixing the window and window well issue) is to create a landing on the stair at the entry level to the room. Then punch through the wall there for a door. That would mean rebuilding the entire stairs though, because they don't look to meet code either.

How is it not legal (the bedroom?)

I didn't get out the measuring tape but think the stairs meet code for basement stairs in my area (min tread depth 9 in, max rise 7.8 in) but the handrail (which you can't see in this photo) for the tall stairs does not and needs to be replaced, and the smaller stairs obviously need a handrail and guard/stringers.

I was definitely considering a landing at the entry level which only makes sense -- but there's a giant joist thingy running right across there at head height. Can I, and by eye I mean a contractor and engineer, somehow make a header and posts and whatever else is needed to be able to cut that joist?

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 10:12

It has to do with the sill height, as well as the size.

But in my location, as a pre-existing structure, it would be grandfathered in. There are many houses with above ground bedrooms and high awning windows. That doesn't mean I would feel great about sleeping in there. I owned a condo with the bedroom in an English basement and fixed bars on the windows. But I chose the unit that had a second egress door out of the bedroom. But a number of the units sell over and over with no changes to the egress because it's grandfathered.

I'd embrace it as a weird summer house feature, though it could use some finishing here and there, obviously. And of course use that weirdness/not-quite-legalness when negotiating.

What's the other door next to the bedroom? Is it a bathroom?

I do love the property, and the little bridge! I hope you have a canoe.

The sill height's within the number of feet from the floor for my jurisdiction. You can even tell from the photo - that's just a normal bed, it's like 2.5 feet high. So that window is max 42" from the ground. It's about 30" high so the clear opening is at least 24" if not 27". When you look at the window length compared to the 75" long double bed mattress you can see the length is at least six feet. So I think I'm good on the egress but I'll be sure to measure it if we go back out. No bars, none needed.

Annkh, yes it's a bathroom :) Tiny but surprisingly non-smelly/non-moldy for a basement cottage bathroom. I must say these owners kept the place as neat as a pin.

Oh and no window well needed...it's a backsplit

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 10:42

Non-smelly is huge. When we looked at lakehouses about 10 yrs ago, I swear I could smell them all right thru the "internets" at GW used to call it. Ended up buying new construction, which I hate, and hated, but it smelled good.

You are lucky you found a fresh one! : )

Honestly I'd build if the right lot came along. I can't believe how tight inventory is. But I like older places too. But there aren't a lot of old grand lakefront houses here just because historically oceanfront has been a lot more prestigious (and we're a poor province so there's just not a ton of nice real estate at least in the sub $1M range).

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 11:50

It looks perfect, even with having a little weirdness/not to code-ness going on. I would have it inspected, use that info in an offer. I know that there are codes to meet with staircases, like how much space needs to be open at the bottom of them in case you fall, we ran into that problem at another house - we wanted to put a door in at the bottom of the stairs; we did it anyway. And while we were looking for houses for over a year, we kept seeing these houses with "3" bedrooms, some with "4" bedrooms, one of them being in the basement. Some of them were NOT to code, and were not legal bedrooms because of not having an emergency exit. Needless to say, we saw a LOT of weird basement bedrooms. Some wet, some stinky, some moldy. It would be nice if people with basement bedrooms would be honest about it in their descriptions; we wouldn't have wasted so much of our time and the realtor's time seeing them, as we didn't want the bedrooms split up, and I wouldn't accept a basement bedroom for every day living. For a summer house, great, especially if it's the guest bedroom - gives the guest privacy.
That's my two cents. Pretty place!

I just did a remodel - you need a egress window.

You can just google egress window - I have an Anderson -

It's about 24" wide and 48" high - crank out. The sill can't be more than 42" from the floor.

Here are a couple of shots of the interior - you can see definitely needs updating but I think the bones of a great Canadian cabin are there.

The bathroom makes it less bad--no negotiating odd stairs in the middle of the night in the dark. The interior looks great.

Do you need the basement bedroom to be a bedroom? Or would it just be the place extra guests get shoved a few times a year? If it won't be anyone's full time bedroom, it can just be considered a bonus instead of a negative.

It could eventually become a kid room (depending on how the old ovaries work out) but for now is a bonus.

Robo, with a grade A on the smell test downstairs, I think I'd go for it. I know what you mean about scarce lake property - we have a small lot on a Minnesota lake.

Will this be your year-round home? If not, how far is it from home?

It's a 90 minute drive. It would be used about once a month in the winter and much more in the summer and fall. We'd keep it above freezing (not drain the water).

It would be used as a vacation family home for my husband's family with my husband and I as the primary users. We already have a similar arrangement with a house in Florida and it's worked out great so far.

This post was edited by robotropolis on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 10:19

I like the idea of adding a landing so you step off into the hall between the bedroom and bathroom.

I would check to see what is up to code (stairs, window, etc). It might help you negotiate a good deal. ie you might make a low offer and explain the reason for doing so is the window and stairs requiring modification.

The rest of the house looks pretty cool.

If we get it, I'm gonna do a Hudson's bay blanket color scheme (red,yellow, green, navy, cream) and go like so Canadian rustic it hurts.

I think the "proper" way to do the stairs would be (would have been) to shift the stairwell over to the other side of the gargantuan beam. Then it would come down a half flight into the hallway with the bedroom and bathroom, and continue on down into the basement at the end of the hall (where the current short flight of stairs is).

I don't know that you can change it at this point, as it depends on what's upstairs on the other side of the beam, but that seems to me to be the right way to do this.

You could certainly cut through that beam and create a doorway out the side. Anything's possible with some structural engineering. And it looks like the perpendicular beam that's resting on the gargantuan one would be the other side of said doorway. However, you'd need to create a landing there, and that would extend the run of the stairs on down into the basement, which would reduce your head room. So I don't think that's the best solution.

So what's there, quirky as it may be, is perhaps the lesser of the evils.

I looked at it hoping I could shift the stairs but you can see the issue here -- the lower stairwell is stacked under the upper stairwell, and the only place to shift the lower stairwell would be into that bedroom you can see opening on the right, which would make it pretty tiny.

I really like the landing idea and would like to investigate it further, so I'm going to take some more detailed photos/measurements when I'm out this weekend. It would extend the run of stairs, unless I made everyone going to the lower basement detour through that little hallway. But actually there's a pellet stove down in the lower basement so the ability for the heat to go directly up the staircase is nice.