Many materials have very specific install instructions. Tile isn't just tile. The contractor needs to know size, material (natural stone or porcelain, etc.) and layout pattern in order to properly give you a bid. The plumber needs to know whirlpool tub or soaking tub, and how many body sprays, rain heads, and everything else you are planning for your shower. The electrician needs to know if that fixture in the bedroom is a inexpensive "boob light" or a 500 lb chandelier with so many lights it needs it's own circuit.

Materials selection impacts the labor quotes. You need to have a sheet that lists those items that you hand the contractors. Your architect should have developed a materials selection list for you.

gussiedup:

As a contractor I can't imagine a situation I would rather avoid than yours. A race to the bottom for a customer with no budget. I can't imagine how these guys stay in business. Good luck, but no thanks.

What Live wire said.

A job cannot be bid without knowing what is required---those requirements being what the person hiring wants to have built/installed.

Like the tub/shower mentioned. Simple tub is drain and supply to the faucets/filler. Plumber does the rough-in in a day.

Whirlpool/rain shower with six body jets means larger diameter piping is necessary and the rough-in might take three days.

First one might be a $600 cost. Second probably would be four to six times that.

You have completely put the cart before the horse in my opinion. You need to develop a budget and some idea of what your going to use before starting the plans. From what I have read your have a recipe for disaster in the making........

" I guess how will I know what fixtures I can pick out until I have a budget to work with"

It's your house, your money, your decision.

" how much they bid on the structural and installation"

If your Architect "has not" provided an estimate for you, find another.

"work will determine if i can afford a home depot kitchen or a custom cabinet kitchen you know what i mean."

Put on your "grown-up" clothes and invest in your future, at least as much time, as you have invested in accumulating the funds which have brought you to the position to consider this expansion.

Unless, of coarse, your shopping experience, is a coalition of your neighbors.

If and maybe, wastes everybody's time.

It does zero good to develop a 300K ''dream plan'' that has zero chance of being built. If you don't know what the materials are that you want to use for your project, then you don't know enough to hire that architect and develop a scope of work. I would think that at least he would have forced the situation. He cannot possiby develop an accurate plan in a vacuum of pertinent details. Are you sure you actually hired a licensed architect and not some sketchy version of a home designer?

You should at least have a clue as to what similar projects have cost in your location. As well as the value returned. You may get better return on a teardown, as then the whole home is new and has all modern features tbroughout. It's the cobbling together of old and new that is the most expensive part of any project, and it's also what brings the value down on a remodel vs a rebuild.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cost vs. Value

It sounds like your architect is seeking bids for the structural work, which should be defined in the plans. He should have been able to tell you a range you were considering, based on experience, to see if you can even come close to funding it. Did you talk about money at all, or is he assuming you can afford whatever you want?

You need to talk to the architect. He is the professional running this show and guiding you through the process.

thanks for your responses. We have talked budget with the architect and i don't think that my original post came across as intended.

I have absolutely no idea what this comments means : Unless, of coarse, your shopping experience, is a coalition of your neighbors.

If and maybe, wastes everybody's time.

"I have absolutely no idea what this comments means : Unless, of coarse, your shopping experience, is a coalition of your neighbors."

A coalition is defined as a lack of leadership. So a coalition of your neighbors means that before you go grocery shopping, you notify your neighbors of your intent and a projected date, then ask for their suggestions for your purchases.

"If and maybe, wastes everybody's time."

As I said; "Put on your "grown-up" clothes and invest in your future, at least as much time, as you have invested in accumulating the funds which have brought you to the position to consider this expansion."

not sure what dictionary you find the definition of coalition to be "lack of leadership"

I do have my grown up clothes on and am investing in my future which is why I am doing this project. I was simply asking how the process typically works. Apparently in my case it's different than most. I have invested a lot of time and have a budget and know what I want, that's just not been fully laid out in my plans yet which is what I was asking about. Thanks for your responses though.

A coalition is in general, a group of "like minded" individuals, having an opinion.

Since their opinion, is a consensus, there is by default, no leader, just an appointed spokes-person.

"I have invested a lot of time and have a budget and know what I want,"

A complete set of plans and specifications should be in you hands, prior to your 1st call to any prospective bidder.

This, also, should have been explained to you by your "architect."

"that's just not been fully laid out in my plans yet which is what I was asking about."

Why was this not annotated in your OP, as well as;" We have talked budget with the architect and i don't think that my original post came across as intended."

Because, a true architect, can give you a reasonably accurate estimate of the, code compliant, structural placement, start to finish.

You see, simply by virtue of their education, in most states, an architect can take the business portion of the licensing test, to qualify as a "B" General contractor.

There exists a lack of competency, on some level.

What i have right now from my architect is a design set of drawings for preliminary budget estimates and not final ones - to make sure that we are all on the same page (contractors etc). these are not the final drawings. that's how it was explained to me. obviously i'm new in the process and this is my first time undergoing this sort of undertaking so why i'm asking the questions.

We went through generally the same process as you have outlined. Our architect drew up preliminary drawings and we got very rough bids from two contractors so we could have a general idea of cost (with round placeholders for tile, appliances, flooring, etc. without having to make final selections yet). They were able to give high level estimates - not bids that they would be held to - based on other jobs of similar scope. They did not have all their subs do walkthroughs or do detailed quotes for any line items. Their estimates were pretty comparable and we made our selection after lots of due diligence.

This gave us the information we needed to decide what budget we would set for our project. I'm not in any way trying to imply that money is no object here, but we had to decide how far we were comfortable going with the remodel (which has ended up being an addition plus reconfiguration like you're envisioning). As a first timer, even with the architect's input we needed these high level estimates from the contractors before we felt comfortable moving forward with the final drawings and the real bids.

Now of course the final numbers are higher than those original high level estimates, but a lot of that has to do with us adding scope along the way :)

If you want contractor reality checks along the way during the design, you hire a contractor to provide that input. You don't hand half done plans to a bunch of guys for them to waste their time over. Anyone who is a good contractor is a busy contractor, and won't havd time to deal with that kind of timesuck.

"Now of course the final numbers are higher than those original high level estimates, but a lot of that has to do with us adding scope along the way :)"

Two absolutely paramount reasons you do your homework, and...............make up your mind.

Because, "If and maybe, wastes everybody's time."

thanks austinaggie for the input - that seems to be how it's working here. Of course of all of the contractors we have been working with on the walk throughs they have the ability to back out of the project if they don't have the time or desire to work on it but so far no one has done so. Its such a huge undertaking that I need to know what everything is going to cost before I put my final stamp on the final drawings and bids. Because IF it's going to cost me more than I think (doing my homework by getting bids and asking how much it costs) then MAYBE i don't want to do it. Until I know how much everything is going to cost in the end (or at least an idea) then I can't make up my mind...

But that is a good part of what you hire an architect for, exactly the reasons you stated. And all of this is done before pencil gets put to paper........

but millworkman - once i have the architect draw up the plans say for a kitchen - we are bumping out a wall and creating a new panty. until he puts pen to paper and creates the drawings, i wouldn't have been able to go shopping for cabinets or appliances or flooring or whatnot until I saw a layout right. I guess I can understand why the way we are doing it is not that desireable but it seems some things should be done first before i can go out and pick out my dream kitchen per se. We have already received multiple bids though on our preliminary drawings so i guess some people didn't balk at how it was done. the reason i asked is that my husband's uncle is a contractor and he's bidding on the project and he's confused also by the process so it does seem we are doing it the wrong way. our architect came highly recommended and does a lot of work in our area so i do trust him but the process right now seems a little disjointed.

I would be careful about using family or friends best way to lose either or, and well if it works for you it works but just not the way I have ever heard of using

" once i have the architect draw up the plans say for a kitchen - we are bumping out a wall and creating a new panty."

A family member, "who is a contractor," is also bidding the project, cannot be trusted to provide you with a, dimensioned, 1 line drawing?

"until he puts pen to paper and creates the drawings, i wouldn't have been able to go shopping for cabinets or appliances or flooring or whatnot until I saw a layout right."

The question begs your reluctance to acting upon your own behalf, because if you really where interested, you would know that mfg. of bag-n-box cabinets publish, both physical as well as on-line brochures and pricing information. As do all of the suppliers of those other materials you would need.

All it takes is your willing involvement, besides depending upon others to dictate your future.

snoonyb i would love if you would see your way out of my post (i know free internet and all), but your constant quoting of my quotes is beyond obnoxious so please just do me a favor...

gussie,
you just have to take the good with the bad when you
post online.
take what you need & ignore the rest.

difficult to do sometimes.

be aware that some members have experiences
other than just their own homes. these more
experienced people can offer a wider view of
the projects.
dare I say, some of us are pros. just unfortunate
that gw doesn't differentiate between homeowners
& pros.

keep asking questions.

best of luck.

Since an average upscale kitchen remodel costs 110K without any moving around or additions, I would hope that you've addressed the issue of budget before you ever hired an architect to put pen to paper for that addition. Add in your addition, and over the garage bedroom, and you are at 300K, national average. In a more expensive area of the country, that number could be 30% more on one of the coasts. If that price makes you gulp, then you've embarked upon a pipe dream without grounding it in reality from the beginning. While you might be able to shave 60K off of that number by going with builder grade materials like laminate counters, box store stock crapinets, vinyl floors, and base carpet, you cannot cut the price of the structural elements like the permits, foundations, joist reinforcement, HVAC upgrades, electrical upgrades, etc. There's a bottom number to any project that you're not going to be able to go below, no matter how much you cut.

I'll be more than happy to stop illustrating your submitted evidence of your lack of interest in acting upon your own behalf.

" energy_rater_la "

I, among others, nip this in the bud, to the benefit of all parties involved.

"Because, "If and maybe, wastes everybody's time."

You guys are being very harsh. How about being more supportive? This is an expensive and very stressful process and not easy for newbies. Hope the following info helps:

We did not have a great idea of remodeling costs either before talking with an architect and getting bids in. We had an idea of our max. budget and the architect drew up plans roughly corresponding to what he thought worked for our budget. Imp difference from your case, he put allowances in for the builders to use for estimating tile costs, appliance costs, and any owner variables. He also specified in detail what types of materials to use. Any builder questions were answered by the architect not us. The bids came in significantly higher than expected. However, we were able to pick a builder and then meet with him and the architect to reduce costs. Now the architect is drawing the final plans and the builder will then give us his revised bid. Your strategy seems similar but perhaps lacking in detail. Ask the architect to step in more perhaps.

Thanks dcpixie- that was really helpful. Yeah this is stressful but exciting too. Yeah I think our architect definitely left out a lot of details for this stage. We met with one of our builders, whom we will likely go with and have a lot more information. I feel like we are getting to a point of being in a much better position and looking forward to moving forward. Good luck.

dcpixie:

Some of us have a more direct tone than others; to characterize it as "harsh" seems a bit harsh to me.

No one is being malicious. I believe the best thing you can do is tell the truth, whether or not it's what someone wants to hear. Budgets come before everything, including architects. Any other order is wasting time.