Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
eurekabill

Exactly how should I insulate ...

EurekaBill
11 years ago

the new master bedroom we are creating?

We are converting a bedroom into a master bath. All of the walls are open. The room is at the north corner of the house on the ground floor. We live in NW Arkansas. The house is a 60's ranch with a full basement. 2x4 walls with brick veneer.

How should we insulate the two outside walls? Pink with paper on one side and facing in? Pink with paper on both sides? In both cases, add a vapor barrier with pink? Or, is fiberglass wrapped in plastic made by Johns Manville a better option? Do it another way altogether?

Also, we would like to insulate a third, interior wall for sound purposes that has the master shower running half the length of the wall with a hallway/guest bath on the other side. Exactly what kind of insulation would you suggest for that? The shower will be tiled.

Thanks in advance.

Comments (15)

  • kai615
    11 years ago

    I am a DIYer so take my advice only for face value. We just did all of our exterior walls with the pink one sided facing that fit the walls. I had some 2x4 walls and some 2x6 walls (matching old construction to new). I also insulated ceilings and bathroom walls with the same one sided pink stuff, except we used 10" in the ceiling as that was what fit. All for sound proofing. We are in MD, not really sure how being in AR would differ. We did work on the advice of my BIL who has been in construction for 40+ years.

    I did however buy some of that Johns Manville wrapped in plastic and it was a nightmare to cut, hang, and use. I would not recommend it. Of course in my situation I had a bunch of cuts to make width wise because part of my insulating was in the very very old part of the house and nothing is standard sized so that may have been part of the problem, but once you cut that stuff it doesn't stay where it is supposed to, sagged in the wall as I was trying to staple it in place. I ended up using the end of the roll to hand stuff a huge gap we had as I didn't want to deal with trying to cut and staple it any more.

  • EurekaBill
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the reply.

    Paper facing the warm side (inside of wall during winter)? Overlap flaps on stud and staple? No plastic vapor barrier necessary? As for the interior walls when using it for soundproofing, I'm assuming it doesn't matter which side the paper is on, right? Do the part of the wall involving the shower the same as the rest of the wall? If using it in the floor to soundproof between this room and the basement room below, it doesn't matter which side the paper is on, either?

  • kai615
    11 years ago

    Sorry. Yes, paper faces the warm side, though I am not sure it has to, the paper really serves no function except to keep the insulation neat and easy to use as far as I understand. I like to staple to the inside of the studs only because I find it easier to hang the drywall later, but this could be only because hubby and I are horrible at hanging the drywall and seeing the studs (so, so many crooked studs in this old house) so I like being able to tell exactly where they are before hanging the sheetrock and not have them hidden behind a bunch of paper, and there is no issues with rogue staples that didn't go in all the way. The insulation puffs right back out. We only used plastic vapor barrier when we insulated our floor between a packed dirt floor and our sub floor, so for what you are talking, I would say no vapor barrier needed, but again, I am no professional.

    For interior walls and floors, no it doesn't matter which way the paper goes, again, it is there just for ease of use. We did our shower wall the same as everywhere else. In theory, your shower is waterproof, if it isn't, you have a whole world of other issues and the studs aren't going to last no matter what you do with your insulation. You are just going for soundproofing, so the same stuff should do the trick. We had to stuff some between our pvc pipes behind the shower also (FYI), for some reason, they were close enough that in the cold months of winter the hot water running rubbed the cold water pipe just right to make funny noises. Luckily we hand't drywalled the otherside yet and heard the noises for a few weeks to track down where they were coming from - that would have drove me nuts forever. While you have the wall open, can't hurt to sound proof those some.

    When you cut your insulation, cut through the pink first, change your blade often and save yourself a lot of headaches.

  • kai615
    11 years ago

    I almost forgot the easiest way to insulate according to my husband. Convince your wife it is the easier of two jobs, let her do it, while you go off out of sight somewhere to complete your "harder" task. Be sure to come back in time to help cut the last couple of pieces though so you can help take credit.

    What you SHOULDN'T do is brag about getting out of it later to your friends!

  • renovator8
    11 years ago

    I've never seen fiberglass insulation with a paper facing that wasn't asphalt coated so it would act as a vapor retarder. Fiberglass insulation doesn't need the paper for any other reason. I would be interested to know what brand of insulation has a vapor permeable facing.

    You should be asking where you should install a vapor retarder in your climate and tell us what the heating and cooling system is and how the wall is constructed.

    Don't assume things about moisture movement if you don't understand it.

  • EurekaBill
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Central heat and air ... gas heat ... 2x4 frame construction with brick veneer ... blackboard sheathing ... house was built in the 60's.

    Please talk down to me ... I'm a layman, and I claim that title very loosely.

    FYI ... the insulation I plan to use is the Pink Ecotouch.

  • kai615
    11 years ago

    Renovator, as I said, I am a DIYer, a layman like EurekaBill who sought advise myself to do my own job. You taught me something about the paper, I assumed because we used a different vapor barrier on our packed dirt floor, that it it was ease of use. My mistake, thank you for correcting. I am not trying to give out bad info.

    I assume though if it is a vapor barrier, that he is still safe using it and not needing another vapor barrier? Is there any part of what I said that doesn't hold up besides my reasoning? If so, please set him straight before he starts his job. And I still have one more room to insulate this winter, so I wouldn't mind some more advice if I am doing something wrong.

  • worthy
    11 years ago

    If I'm reading the linked map correctly, no interior vapor control is required on the interior side of your framed walls. IOW, use unfaced insulation on the outside walls. However, air sealing the walls to be insulated will help make the insulation more effective.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Vapor Control Layer Recommendations

  • virgilcarter
    11 years ago

    Interior noise/sound transmission has two categories: 1) airborne sound; 2) structure-borne sound. It's a complex and complicated science. Among the common and resonable treatments for residential construction are specially made acoustical fiberglas batts which will help with airborne sound, when properly installed. Structure borne sound may be most effectively treated using resilient clips and acoustical gyp board, or other means to introduce an air space and isolate structural elements from one another. Good luck.

  • EurekaBill
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    "However, air sealing the walls to be insulated will help make the insulation more effective."

    Not sure I understand this.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago

    keeping air from moving through the insulation
    will allow the insulation to perform to its
    full R-value.

    google air tight drywall approach to make
    wall air tight to interior. caulk sole
    plates to floors. caulk is a great product
    that seals well, it expands and contracts
    to maintain a seal for long periods of times.
    use water based caulk with long life. caulk
    is a good thing.

    I'd staple flaps of insulation inside
    wall studs rather than on faces of studs,
    for reasons mentiones about sheetrock.

    best of luck.

  • drywall_diy_guy
    11 years ago

    Since you are in a region that has some mild cold (for a short period) and lots of hot humid weather, your insulation placement may be different than for some northern person like myself. Up in N. WI, we place a good vapor barrier on the heated side - this prevents interior moisture from reaching the cold and condensing within the wall during winter months. And if we put the moisture barrier on the cold side, ALL the moisture condenses in the wall, resulting in rotting (this was done with a neighbor's house that had to be torn down). But with your situation, you have a lot of humidity coming in from the outside in hot months, possibly meeting cold interior walls. You should talk to building experts in your locale and describe your heating/AC situation. Even knowledgeable people at local lumber yards (not home stores) could give you good advice.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago

    take a minute and think about it.
    systems like bibs, and blown insulations
    like wet blown cellulose & rockwool
    have no vapor barriers.
    this leads to the question..do we really need
    vapor barriers?

    http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-building-science-HERS-BPI/bid/54110/You-Don-t-Need-a-Vapor-Barrier-Probably

    apparently we aren't the only ones asking
    this question.

    best of luck.

  • lyvia
    11 years ago

    I'm facing a similar education curve. I thought I could just throw up some thick insulation under the new siding, but it turns out to be much more complex, and you really do have to get into the vapor barrier stuff. For me, the convincing moment was finding the mold caused by previous mistakes. All the headaches and allergies I could have skipped if I had only known! So vapor barrier science is critical to insulation, and it all depends on your climate. Your walls are either 1) moister on the outside, 2) moister on the inside or 3) it changes. Here in Virginia, it changes, which means that often moisture gets trapped in the stud cavities. The biggest no-no is to have two vapor barriers, like Durock/tile and then OSB sheathing. Unless your showers are minimal and your weather is drying, that combo will put moisture in your stud cavities, soak your insulation, and create mold. People now put better moisture barriers like Kerdi on the durock/tile, and that helps keep the vapor out of the walls, but it is still a moisture trap.

    I'm thinking my best option is closed cell foam between the studs, and vapor permeable fiberboard sheathing over that, so it can dry to the outside (which means any foam under the siding has to be permeable.). I may have to use vapor barrier paints inside to meet code, but that will work.

    Good luck!

  • worthy
    11 years ago

    The biggest no-no is to have two vapor barriers, like Durock/tile and then OSB sheathing.

    Unless your home is one giant shower, this is not a climate issue. A bathroom exhaust fan is essential in every climate.

    Again, here are basic vapor control layer recommendations from Building Science Corp., which also is a chief architect of the Department of Energy recommendations.