This is a photo of my stone wall, which also shows a black outline of where a bracket will be installed. My plan is to apply mortar within that outline, so that it's level. Then once it cures, I can just mount the bracket onto that mortar and drill my pilot holes through the new mortar and stone behind it. Can anyone think of alternative solutions or is this best way to approach this? I think having some extra mortar behind the bracket will look nicer and more professional, compared to sticking in pieces of shims behind the bracket so that it rests flush against the wall.

Thanks folks!

bobby1973:

I would hammer drill through the stone and screw (4) handrail bolts, (2) up, (2) down, or something similar to the sheathing. This would allow you to plumb the nuts on the bolts which would plumb the bracket. Having this adjustment will be critical. Maybe attach a cleat to the bolts and relieve the back of the bracket to receive the cleat.

The brackets will sit on the bolts/nuts/cleat, not on the stone. The bolts could be siliconed, preventing water penetration too.

Here is a link that might be useful: bolts

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Tue, Oct 7, 14 at 10:20

Thank you Trebuchet for your suggestion. I just want to be certain that I understand the approach correctly. First, would these handrail bolts need to be specific for masonry? I attached that photo from the link you sent me. I obviously see the bolt and nut in the photo. The bolt would be positioned on the front side of the bracket. What about the wood circle? Where would that go? And the same for the dark colored piece? Is that the cleat? Would the cleat and wood circle be positioned behind the bracket to adjust the spacing? Sorry if these come across as silly questions. Your assistance is greatly appreciated!

bobby

I'll get back to you. I've had too much wine to explain tonight.

" First, would these handrail bolts need to be specific for masonry?"

bobby1973:

No. You want the holes in the masonry to be large enough for the bolts to pass through and leave space between the bolt and masonry for caulk. The bolts screw into your sheathing.

"I attached that photo from the link you sent me. I obviously see the bolt and nut in the photo. The bolt would be positioned on the front side of the bracket. What about the wood circle? Where would that go?"

I only posted that picture as an example, not a specification. The wood circle is useless.

"And the same for the dark colored piece? Is that the cleat?"

No.

"Would the cleat and wood circle be positioned behind the bracket to adjust the spacing?"

The cleat yes, the wood circle, no. This is the order: Sheathing, masonry with bolt passing through, double nuts for adjustment, cleat, washer and nut to hold the cleat, bracket attached over cleat.

Sorry, but I have to say this occasionally, I think you're in over your head with this project.

Thanks for the clarification Trebuchet with respect to the rail bolts. I think I'm leaning more towards apply mortar mix to the 4 designated areas to level the surface and allow the wood brackets to be mounted flush. I appreciate your honest opinion about the idea for the project. I certainly don't want to start something that's going to turn into a disaster. Could you kindly elaborate on what specifically bothers you about the idea? I included a sample photo that should help illustrate what I'm ultimately trying to achieve. In this photo the wall is brick, so it's a single, flat plane. What makes my wall challenging are the multiple planes due to the stacked stone veneer. But again, that's why I thought applying mortar mix to the stone veneer so that it's level would solve that problem. I look forward to your response and feedback my friend. Thank you!

bobby

This photo more accurately illustrates the design that I have in mind. You can see that there are 4 brackets in total that are mounted to the house (left and right brackets + two center support brackets).

Can you scribe the upright member of the bracket using dividers AKA compass and then cut it to fit the wall rather than the other way round? You'd need to start out with a extra thick upright so that you could remove some of the wood to fit it against the wall. I am just thinking that if you do something permanent to the stone, when the wood brackets rot, you will have an unsightly gap unless the wood brackets are going to be permanent.

What is going to hold the mortar in place? Once you figure that out, how do intend to hold the wood brackets to the wall? I personally do not see how your going to accomplish this and have it not fall off the face of the building.

Great feedback everyone! Thank you kindly. Even better than applying mortar mix to the stone wall to level it, wouldn't it be smarter to apply cement to achieve a stronger bond to the stone. Once cured, my plan to mount the cedar brackets would incorporate long lag screws with lag shields if needed. That's all that I can think of that's at least within my capabilities. But I appreciate everyone's honesty here. I certainly don't want to go through this whole installation if it's not going to be structurally sound. I look forward to your responses and thank you again for your thoughtful feedback.

bobby

bobby:

The beauty of my method is its reverseability. If a new owner doesn't like the project or it blows up in your face, all you've got is a few holes to mortar closed. When you start installing mortar or grinding stone you've married this project.

Whatever you do, it's got to be adjustable or you'll have shims or sags in the top trellis. Mortar is not adjustable.

Mortar also will not ''stick'' to wood. It's not epoxy. Even epoxy would fail between two such dissimilar materials. If you won't do this project correctly, then don't do it at all. You are risking creating a pretty big safety hazard, as well as really expensively damaging your house in a way that won't be cheap or easy to repair.

I hear you loud and clear Trebuchet and Hollysprings. However the mortar (I decided cement mix is appropriate now) is not intended to 'stick' to the wood bracket. It would strictly be used to bond to the stone veneer so that I can create a flush surface (single plane), which will allow me to mount the bracket to. It's the 6" lag screw and lag shield that will keep the bracket securely mounted to the wall. It's not my intention to be belligerent here, but I fail to see how this approach would not work. Please advise. And thank you once again for your honest opinions and suggestions.

bobby

OP already took an irreversible step by trying the abrasive blade as illustrated in pic #2. There is no going back. Since it is under roof, weather is not the primary concern, so I would finish the job of cutting the stone and embed the brackets.
Casey

Thanks for you feedback Casey. The problem with continuing with cutting the stone as I mentioned my initial post is that the stone is incredibly hard. I had spend about 20 minutes with my angle grinder just to create that little cut. I used a masonry pad. Perhaps I could try a dry-cut diamond wheel?

Put a coarse diamond cup wheel on a grinder and your cast stone veneer will be flush in minutes. Grind it plumb and forget the mortar. Hammer drill through the veneer and screw through the bracket and veneer with LedgerLocks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cup wheel

A summary opinion:

"Perhaps I could try a dry-cut diamond wheel?"

Yes. On a super cheap ten dollar snag grinder from Harbor Fright.

That's not a stone wall but just a stone veneer on the face of the "real" wall, right? I'd be sloppy to treat a veneer as any part of a structural mount. Veneer may be hard but you cannot count on it for anything except looks. That certainly was the goal of the original installer!

I'd consider removing the veneer (take pics for re-fit reference) and mounting the heavy stuff to the real structure behind the veneer, and then reapplying the veneer after trimming the pieces with a diamond bladed saw or hand grinder to fit around the wood.

Don't forget to think about whether any waterproofing is necessary.

I like your most recent suggestion Trebuchet. I have every intention to use a long enough screw (lag, ledgerlock, tapcon, etc) to pass through the wooden bracket, pass through the stone veneer and thread into whatever solid material is behind the stone veneer. After reviewing all the helpful suggestions and opinions in this post, this approach to me appears to be the path of least resistance, while still being structurally sound. Thanks you to all again! I will most definitely post before and after photos once I am done.

bobby

Quick question: In this application, would you choose ledgerloks over lag screws or tapcon screws?

Thanks again everyone!

Have you plotted the position of the studs behind the sheathing behind the studs? Or are you planning on opening up the interior and adding blocking from the inside? Lag screws are not going to work into sheathing. And you really really need to read up on proper flashing for penetrations into your building envelope. Bottom line is caulk won't cut it.

I'd be nice to hit framing with the fasteners, but for a non-structrual decorative application like this, I wouldn't worry about it or mechanical flashing as long as the veneer isn't substantially compromised.