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hakone_blue

Popcorn removal on HGTV 'Designed to Sell'

Hakone_blue
18 years ago

I caught an episode of 'Designed to Sell' last night, and concurred heartily when the real estate expert said; "Oh, but Clyde, this popcorn ceiling must go." (this about the ceiling in the master bedroom).

So far, so good. The next scene starring the odious popcorn ceiling was when the homeowner used a hose to spray the ceiling, because the spray bottle the contractor had proposed was deemed too slow. Cut to homeowners scraping the ceiling.

Final scene: open house. Cost for renovating the ceiling: $0. If this is to be believed, they didn't sand, skim, nor paint the ceiling after removing the popcorn.

My question to all you experts is: have you done this or seen it done? Can you really just scrape off the popcorn and get a decent surface? I would think you would have to do at least some repairs.

Any thoughts welcome as I get ready to star in my own home video titled "Clyde, the ceiling must go!"

Comments (22)

  • maddiemom6
    18 years ago

    When we scraped the bathroom in the rental a few months ago.. we were able to just scrape and then prime and paint.. we are now scraping the kitchen.. it's not going to be near so easy in there!

    Maddiemom

  • kudzu9
    18 years ago

    A word of caution: Popcorn ceilings installed up through the early 1980's often contained large amounts of asbestos. Before you disturb that ceiling you need to have it tested. Removal of asbestos containing ceilings, even using wet methods, is not a job that -- in my opinion -- can be done safely by a homeowner. (I'm not an abatement contractor, but I am a health and environmental professional.) It requires special (HEPA) vacuums, containment areas to be setup, the correct kind of respirators (not dust masks from Home Depot), and proper bagging and disposal.

    I'm going to give you two links. The first tells you what to do to test, and what to do if you find asbestos. The second is how to remove the ceiling yourself, IF it doesn't contain asbestos.

    Trust me. You do not want to be contaminating your home and jeopardizing your family's health because you wanted to save money and did an asbestos removal unknowingly and/or improperly. If you do have asbestos, often the best thing is to leave it alone. It's only a problem if it's disturbed.

    Asbestos issues in ceilings

    Tips

  • Hakone_blue
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Kudzu9,

    Thank you for the very useful links!

  • kudzu9
    18 years ago

    Hakone-
    You're welcome. I hate to be the messenger of gloom, but it's better to know before the fact. In my line of work, I've dealt with quite a few families who were unaware of the issue or the risks, and only found out later...when the damage was done. Then they ended up worrying and kicking themselves.

    I wish you good luck. Hopefully, my message will be a false alarm for you.

  • gzec
    18 years ago

    I saw that same show. They only calculated the cost of materials when figuring the upgrade costs. They neglected the labor costs of the 5 people working on the project.
    I wondered about the prep and cleanup required to spray a garden hose in an interior room. It must have been a bear to clean up, and the sheet rock must have gotten very wet.

  • masiman
    18 years ago

    From what I have understood about this kind of job is that it really is not that bad. The hardest part seems to be working over your head. If you do try this, start off with the spray bottle until you get the hang of how much water to put on. If done correctly, the sheet rock will be minimally wet. The sheet rock paper covering will be enough to prevent serious damage.

    Goggles, mask, scraper, sprayer, ladder and floor covering. That's about all you need.

    I have seen some people hold a container in one hand to catch the scrapings. This served to reduce the mess of the droppings by collecting it before it splattered on the floor and maybe up the walls.

  • shezzy_in_sj
    18 years ago

    I second the notion of getting it tested for asbestos. Not only will you know what you have, but you also will know what you have to dispose of. Asbestos is considered a hazardous material and cannot (okay, should not) be dumped into a regular landfill. Do people do so? Yep. Do people also hire day laborers to scrape a ceiling that hasn't been tested? Yep. I know of one GC who didn't get a ceiling tested, and one of the day laborers was a pregnant woman. Asbestos has no place where normal garbage/waste/landfill contact is possible.

    It's a pain, and expensive to hire for the clean up of that material, yet it's one of the "good-est" things you can do if you do it properly.

    And don't forget the asbestos lining your HVAC ductwork.

    Be careful out there.

  • bus_driver
    18 years ago

    Frequently the drywall finishing is not carefully nor completely done in cases where the the texture is to be sprayed on. Typically the texture bonds best onto the drywall compound, so the seam areas are the hardest to remove and does take preparation to get a smooth final ceiling.

  • Karen
    18 years ago

    We removed it from our dining room as it has a nice coiffered ceiling. It was easy, and soo worth it. If you ceiling was painted it would probably be very difficult though. The surface underneath was in good shape. A tiny bit of patching a coat of primer and 2 coats of ceiling pain, it looks great.

    Here is a link that might be useful: see photos here...

  • mainemary
    17 years ago

    I have found that too much water is not a good thing. The paper on the drywall is easier to damage when hydrated for a while. I have worked in 3-foot square areas using a spray bottle and had good results (peeling the texture within 15 minutes of spraying). I just wish my mud technique was better because I invariably slip and scrap the drywall.With my luck, Clive will appear at the door when I'm covered with plaster!

  • pharaoh
    17 years ago

    1. Get the popcorn tested
    2. If negative, spray, wait, scrape. Drop cloths everywhere.
    3. Do this for several days!
    4. Patch the dings
    5. Prime and paint

    Total cost - cost of primer and paint + labor!

    Final look - Priceless!!

  • golddust
    17 years ago

    We live in a 1912 era Craftsman/farmhouse. A previous owner remodeled the kitchen in the early 70's - complete with popcorn ceilings over plaster. My DH and his brother decided to just cover it with joint compound ('mud').

    You would never know that the popcorn ceiling ever existed and it wasn't messy either.

    Good luck!

  • poobaloo
    17 years ago

    Before you get it tested, I would suggest:

    - Get a quote to remove it, assuming it does have asbestos.
    - Be prepared to pay this if it does contain such.

    If you are not going to have it done if it does have asbestos, then do not get it tested in the first place.

    This is because once you test it, if found positive, then when you sell your home you will have to disclose this, which is a big turnoff in less-than-hot markets. It will be something buyers will use to balk.

    Until you test it, you can claim you don't know.
    -mike

  • katydid_gardner
    17 years ago

    As a decorative painter and remodeling junkie who once worked as a paralegal in big asbestos cases, I have a unique perspective on the popcorn-ceiling issue.

    I had to learn more than I wanted to about lung disease back then, and although I always wear protective gear, and use a garden sprayer to keep the material wet at all times, I don't worry so much about possible exposure to asbestos In THIS Form. HOWEVER-if you ever peek into an attic insulated with loose stuff looking like small pieces of coal or shiny grey kitty litter -- Run for the hills!

    Asbestos exposure can certainly result (after years) in mesothelioma. Smoking increases the risk, but I saw chain-smokers who were heavily exposed remain healthy, while a non-smoking wife seemed to get it simply washing her (exposed) husband's clothes. Most cases involve long-term, unprotected exposure to airborne asbestos fibers much more hazardous than those in popcorn ceilings.

    In short, I believe the hysteria regarding asbestos in old linoleum, or mixed with gypsum and paint on ceilings is overblown.

    Just don't grind up old floor tiles and snort them!

  • bigrehab
    16 years ago

    You will never find a true professional crew of removers using a spray bottle as this method would be far too time-consuming. The best method is using a garden hose to wet the ceiling then a 6" to 10" drywall knife to scrape the acoustic material off. The water that does fall back to the plastic sheeting will be soaked up by the acoustic as it is scraped off the ceiling leaving you with a mess but no standing pools of water unless you go nuts with the hose. Use the 6" knife until you get the hang of it to minimize damage then go to town with a 10".

    A normal 10Âx12Â bedroom can be masked and have the acoustic removed in less than an hour including allowing time for the water to soak into the acoustic using this method, not including time to repair or retexture. If you opt for a smooth finish instead of texture your repair (coating) time climbs considerably as even minor flaws will show on a smooth finish.

    I'm also amazed at the number of people who say they have removed their ceiling and only did a "little patching" before painting. Ceilings that are intended to be covered with acoustic are almost never top coated and the joints show big time without being properly coated even when sprayed by a professional with a knock down texture.

    This isnÂt rocket science but a professional job is far more work than scraping off the acoustic then slapping on a coat of paint. Some may be happy with the outcome of painting without proper repair of the drywall joints but most discerning homeowners would be very disappointed.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Popcorn ceiling removal

  • igloochic
    16 years ago

    THey make a tool that you use specifically for this (available at the big box stores) which is a scraper with an attachment for a small trash bag. You scrape and it falls directly into the bag. Much easier cleanup!

    We did our 1100 sq ft condo before sale. It was about a two day job (took a week of evenings after work). But, as mentioned by the pro, the ceiling looked "ok" but wasn't really ready for a paint job when it was finished. We called in a pro to spray an orange peel texture on it and then painted.

    We also did test the popcorn (since the unit was built in the 70's). We didn't use a tiny spray bottle, instead we used one of the garden sprayers that holds about 3 gallons of water. The job was very easy and the mess minimal. We sheeted the walls with plastic as well to keep things tidy.

  • teachersuzanne
    16 years ago

    We live in a 1970s house and all the ceilings are popcorn ceilings. My children sleep in bunk beds and touch the ceiling.

    How do I take a sample to get tested? He routinely knocks his ceiling with a pillow.

    Thanks in advance.

  • sierraeast
    16 years ago

    In a corner of the room, tape up some plastic sheeting or something to catch the debris.A grocery sack could work as well.Get a good dusk mask and carefully and slowly scrape a small area from the corner. From what i understand, it doesn't need to be a large sample for testing,so keep it simple and try not to disturb too much of the existing.I would ask your kids to leave the ceiling alone for now until you get the results.If you have help, you could do this anywhere on the lid having one person hold the sack, the other scrape. Just dry scrape for now as you only need a small sample.If it tests negative, you will want to lightly dampen the acoustic(popcorn) to loosen it and make it easier to scrape.A garden type sprayer works great.DUST MASK UP!

  • tdsmith_gw
    16 years ago

    I have used a shopvac after wetting the "popcorn". There is
    some dust and pieces of popcorn that fall while vacuuming but
    most of it gets into the shopvac. It's alot easier to clean up .

  • popcornassassin
    13 years ago

    We've found a way to avoid much of the mess and inconvenience of normal popcorn removal. We use a dryscrape process and shopvac system to get rid of the look without all the wetting, repair, and massive mess. Less costly too!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Popcorn Assassins Website

  • Rhdrywall1970
    12 years ago

    While scraping the ceiling most definitely causes little knicks, dents, scratches, gouges, etc... A professional would repair these to make sure of a "smooth surface".

    Some people do skip the step of skimming and repairing the ceiling, but the quality is just not the same. Their ceiling will not be smooth, but imperfect.

    A real professional would NEVER skip the steps.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Popcorn Ceiling Removal