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sbollag

Fixing an old house floor plan - cross post w/ The Old House

sbollag
9 years ago

Hello all,

First time poster here, but have been reading the forums for a while and gotten a lot of great ideas. Sorry in advance for the long-winded post, but I have a lot on my mind.

We have just begun restoring our quite old house in New Orleans (built late sometime mid-1860s-1870s). The story goes that it was originally the offices of a lumber company, thus all of the beautiful woodwork. We are quite certain now that originally it was only one floor, but at some point it was actually physically moved to its present location and further raised, thus it is now actually three levels, though most of the ground floor is unfinished "basement" (we don't really have real basements here in NOLA). Additionally, at some point a second floor was added (perhaps there was originally an attic, or part of the second floor, as we found evidence of an older staircase), and then at some point it became a triplex, with two apartments downstairs and one up.

The woman we bought it from began living in it in one of the apartments, and then her family turned it into a single family home. They (and others over the years) did some great things, namely the two-level addition in the rear (with the curved room), but they also did some wacky things - like close up what we are certain was originally a center hall with two bathrooms on the first floor, while only having one bathroom upstairs for three/four bedrooms. The front staircase is also terribly long and steep, and has an uneven rise and run, while the rear staircase makes both levels of the addition fairly unfunctional. And the kitchen never had any countertops or cabinets (don't ask me how the woman raised four kids in this house!), though we did inherit a wonderful 1954 O'Keefe and Merrit stove.

Thus we are trying to do what we can to make it a more functional house and at the same time keep the historic detail and charm. So I am including existing plans and drawings for the renovations, although these have already changed. But essentially, we are opening up the center hall, leaving just one bathroom downstairs (though we do need it to be a full bath, with at least a shower, for various reasons) - we thought that it would have to be as drawn, but it turns out we are going to be able to continue the center hall all the way through, and just make it a very small bathroom with a shower (so to the left, right behind the stairs). And since we will now be continuing the hall all the way through, the bar will not happen, as we will be moving the door to there, in line with the hall, instead of coming right into the kitchen.

We are enlarging the opening in the dining room and creating an opening in the study to create some cross-flow. We are rebuilding the staircase to add a landing (and adding interior stairs to the basement behind the front stairs), we are building out the kitchen, and we are eliminating that rear staircase entirely, which will make those rooms much more functional (we actually hope to use the elements of the rear staircase in the front, as it is a much nicer staircase).

And upstairs, we are basically redoing everything, except for the addition room, but as I was saying, that whole floor was added much later, so there is not much historical detail up there, and there is tons of wasted and poorly designed space up there.

Anyway, to get to the point, we're fairly pleased with the plans, although I don't love that there is no closet downstairs, but due to all the historic detail (the entire first floor except for the kitchen and addition consists of this wonderful wood paneling - I'm trying to attach a picture as an example (the only unpainted room) - and detailed wood ceilings (all unfortunately painted) which of course makes everything, like HVAC, all the more challenging), there's just no place to put one. I also don't love the two windows (which we already spent a fortune on repairing) in the master BR that will be trapped in closets, but I don't see much alternative. I am also not entirely set on the upstairs bathroom layouts, but I have time to play with that. And kitchen layout of course is not at all what it will be, especially since hall will now be opening into it.

So I guess I don't have a lot of specific questions at the moment (though I'm sure I will throughout the process), but just interested generally in if people have thoughts on our plans.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read all of this, and look forward to your thoughts!

Comments (6)

  • sbollag
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Existing first floor plan.

  • sbollag
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Existing second floor plan.

  • sbollag
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Renovations plan.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm so jealous! don't have time to look at plans now...but
    will try to get back to this or old house forum later.

    congrats on a wonderful N.O. house.
    hope you factor in how to air seal so that you can
    afford to pay NOPSI every month! LOL!

    best of luck.

  • sbollag
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much, energy_rater! Would much appreciate you taking the time to reply whenever you have the chance, in either forum. I fear my lengthy post scared people off, as I have not received any further replies.

    Yes, definitely gonna air seal as well! Incidentally, I just learned the other day that Entergy used to be NOPSI.

    Thanks again, and in advance!

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It was NOPSI when I lived in New Oreleans, and in rental
    shotgun houses...NOPSI claimed a large part of my paychecks!

    New Orleans has a lot of Energy Raters, the highest concentration
    in the state actually.
    Entergy has made use of some of these raters in their efficiency program Energy Smart.

    here are a couple of links for you to check out:

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/one-stop-shop/

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/for-your-home/

    not being in that area anymore, I don't know how
    this program works..but you can find out if you are
    interested.
    my only advice would be to involve yourself with an
    experienced rater there in N.O. someone with experience
    in old homes...the newer raters I met may have the training...
    but couldn't tell gas from electric heat systems, or know
    how to identify balloon framing. so look for someone who has
    10+ years of experience.

    La. DNR also has list of energy raters state wide, their
    efficiency incentive program isn't still in effect...but last time I
    checked the list of active raters was still online.
    DNR(dept natural resources) provided the training for all of
    us back in 1999. so they have a good handle on who knows
    their stuff...and who doesn't.

    it is hard to see detail in your posted plans.
    so I'll keep my questions fairly general.
    my first two concerns are air sealing & hvac system.

    I know you have a partial ' basement' (LOL) are
    electrical & plumbing exposed?
    was there ever a central hvac system installed?
    if basement isn't full size of house...what access is there
    to the part of the house without basement?
    how much room is there between ground & house?
    3'...4'....more?

    is house all electric or is natural gas provided?
    as to heating...do you have a prefrence?
    if all electric..then look research heat pumps...great
    wintertime savings in our area. (I'm south central La these days)
    have you looked at mini split units? condenser unit outside,
    individual air handler units that hang on walls in rooms.
    I can't tell if your layout would work for this or not.

    is there a space in your home you could make into
    heating system closet?
    have you had any hvac companies come out to look at
    the house yet? involving hvac company never starts too early.
    it may be that ductwork will need to be installed during the
    reno.

    if you can't give up the sq ft for system inside house...I've
    seen people put the heating system in the 'basement'.
    quite a few flooded after katrina, but its not an everyday occurrence, and depending upon what part of town your
    house is located in...flooding is something to consider.
    I know uptown floods in a hearbeat with heavy rains...but
    areas like bywater stay dry.

    the top floor...full attic or are there walls of the living space
    that are shared with attic space?
    is attic space large enough to house heating system?

    air sealing..
    there are really two ways to air seal. caulk, backer rods & more caulk which can be diy..or foam insulation.
    one is inexpensive & time consuming...the other expensive &
    fast.
    foam insulating the roofline will be biggest bang for the buck.
    then putting heat system & ductwork in attic keeps it in a
    semi conditioned space, so that you don't have ducts to cool
    the house in a 140 degree attic.
    by moving air & thermal barriers to roofline, a lot of the
    air leakage sites in ceilings are depressurized, so that house
    isn't sucking hot dirty humid attic air into the house to clean,
    dehumidify & condition when central unit is running.
    as most of our heat gain/cooling loss is through the ceiling
    into the attic space creating a tight air barrier, and thermal
    barrier (insulation) is very important.
    we use open cell in the attic roofline, depth to equal R-value
    required ( R-25 for cathedral for example is 6- 6.5" deep)

    also if house is balloon framed, foam seal at eaves to attic
    floor will stop air movement in walls.

    we need to air seal our walls...but insulating walls here
    isn't high on our list of things to do. foam in walls...is a
    huge waste of money.

    the next place for foam is under the floors.
    here we use closed cell. to keep moisture from ground
    from being sucked into the house. 2-3" is sufficient.
    this will also seal bottom of balloon framed walls.

    I've had issue with some of the foam insulators in N.O.,
    because I am one picky b!tch. unlike most energy raters
    I oversee install of foam and test for air leakage with foam
    co on site, so that they can catch any leakage sites then
    without an added trip.
    as these companies expand into my area...they don't stay long.
    over the years I've learned which companies will actually
    create air tight seals...and who doesn't. and fyi...it isn't always
    the big companies that do it right. owner/installer companies are
    more willing to learn how to do it right. and the install of foam,
    just like the install of the hvac system is the key to the whole thing.

    ok...there are your questions to answer & things to think about for today. I'll check back after you reply.

    and think about investing in a blower door test of the house at minimum. this will identify leakage sites that need to be sealed.
    if you have ductwork, spring for the duct test also.
    better to know what you have to start with..what you need to do...
    and have it tested when completed. this way you have a goal to work towards...and an idea of how to do it.

    best of luck