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eastsider_gw

How did you finalize your contract with your GC for remodel?

eastsider
17 years ago

Hi,

We've found a builder we really like, and are now in the contract process. How did others come to an agreement on the final contract? Was this just between you and your GC? We're having an attorney review our contract, and hoping he'll give us suggestions. But we're wondering how other people came to a decision that was fair to both builder and owner. Any input will be appreciated--thanks!

Comments (9)

  • igloochic
    17 years ago

    I'm in exactly the same position as you. We're working up the details and plan on signing next week. We will also do an attorney review, and will make revisions in terms of adding monetary penalties associated with performance dates, but other than that, we've seen his preliminary contract format and are pretty comfy.

    Both my husband and I write contracts for a living in one shape or another, so that does help the process. My top priority is defination of the who's and what's involved (we're spelling it out very specifically, room by room, item by item) and making sure that the change process is clearly defined (change orders required on any work/item over $500 or any combination of items equaling that amount with signatures required by all parties).

    What I've seen to be the biggest issue is the "surprise" bills at the end that people complain about. I hear folks say, "We started with a basement carpet change and then added three bathrooms and a kitchen and it cost more!!! Why didn't our contracter/brother in law tell us it would cost more than $3.00????" For both the contractor and the home owner, spelling out the change order process, and requiring signatures and new agreements for anything but emergencies (which must also be defined) is a MUST.

  • eastsider
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Wow Igloochic--your life sounds a lot like mine!
    My parents built a home and had an awful time with their GC. I do think my folks were breathing down their necks a bit, but the GC and his crew were really dishonest people, so I'm going in with a bit of a bias. However, my husband and I really like our GC, he's very communicative and all of the subs and owners I've spoken with love him, so I'd like to maintain as positive a relationship as possible. But we don't want to pay more than we have to--the contract he sent us seems very general. So we're hoping this construction attorney will set us on the right track. We're so anxious to get started--we only have a few months of good weather here in our area--we want to get digging ASAP, but must get over this contract hurdle. We've discussed all of the upgrades we'd like and are buying appliances ourselves (already bought a Cluny--one big reason so anxious to start this!) Are GC's hesitant to give firm numbers for remodels? I understand that unlike building a new home, remodeling projects can have surprises discovered after demo, but would a 15-30% contingency cover us in such cases?

  • igloochic
    17 years ago

    The number we're waiting for is a firm number. If they can do it cheaper they keep the money, if they do it slower, more expensive, they lose the money. That's why we are making an effort to be very clear on the change order issues right up front.

    I have been waiting to get my Cluny ordered on the financing. We've been approved for months, but had to pick our contractor to finalize everything. Thank god we're past that hurdle. I can't wait to have that thing ordered and on it's way :)

    One thing I did to avoid some of those unknown's is to allow them to cut some holes in my walls in advance. I'd recommend it because once that was done it cut out several of the "I don't know's" (for instance we have to move a wall a few inches to remove what seemed like a basic soffit because when we got into the soffit we found big plumbing). You might see if that helps with the numbers at all.

    The attorney is going to be the most important part of this for both of us most likely. They should point out anything that's too generalized and can add language that protects you.

    I think my GC is great and I'm really happy to be working with them, but I also want to see that we're both protected, so that we have (as I call it) a happy short term affair, verses a very long ugly marriage :oP

    On that contingency...if you're really sure you've worked out the budget to a T than a 20% contingency is plenty (I add that to every figure, which is overkill...for instance you know the Cluny won't be a 20 overage item, but to be safe it's best). Others add 30% to some items (like the contractor fee). If you manage the changes you should do ok, and include language that does not allow cost overages of X amount without approval you should live through this....

    or not :oP But we can definately whine together and then show off Cluny pics when it's all said and done! (I can't wait!!!)

  • eastsider
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    We're a bit hesitant to get into finishes and specifics--the west side of the house faces the water and has been weathered, so we're worried about what may need to be replaced. So if repair costs are huge, we don't want to be really disappointed because we can't get all of the fabulous stuff we originally wanted. (knowing us, we'd go over) I'd love to discuss Cluny stuff--I live 20 mins away from ArtCulinaire, so if I can help with anything, let me know!

  • newenglandbuilder
    17 years ago

    "Are GC's hesitant to give firm numbers for remodels? I understand that unlike building a new home, remodeling projects can have surprises discovered after demo, but would a 15-30% contingency cover us in such cases?"

    As a GC, I'll step in.

    Depends on the GC and how well they research the job prior. When I first started in this business, I felt pressure from customers to hurry and a get a number. That usually led to overlooking major problems, or not giving ourselves enough of a margin for an 'oops' factor. We learned the hard way and had a few very patient customers allow us the time to fix mistakes. As a contractor, I'd make sure the timeline penalties allowed for extra time incurred due to change orders or unforeseen circumstances.

    That being said, at this point I am done trying to please people who are completely focused on price with unrealistic expectations of what they can get done. So think that, yes, all contractors are scared to death of having a major setback during a job set them back, but those who learn from their mistakes, learn through experience what things can go wrong when, what to look for ahead of time and plan/price accordingly. We stick to our budgeted contract amounts, excluding change orders. I think its a part of doing good business. If we screw up or something doesn't go as planned, we fix it at our expense. Poorly capitalized businesses fail everyday because they cannot afford to fix their errors or better yet, avoid them.

    I have a problem with someone mentioning a change order over $500. I always put in my contracts that change orders will come with anything and a 50% deposit with a signed agreement is required for anything over $100.00. Change orders can kill a job if all parties involved aren't watching the total dollar amount. If we cannot continue the project because an issue has come up (structural for instance) that has arisen due to existing conditions, we will not continue the project until the customer is given notice, a decision made and either approval or sign-off of a change occurs.

    I'd suggest making sure also that all installed fixtures are spelled out in the contract in detail. Also, who is responsible for purchasing what and during what phase should also be spelled out.

  • igloochic
    17 years ago

    Eastsider...we're sounding more similar as time goes on. We're sitting on water as well :) (A lake) I can't wait to start seeing pics of your project!

    Thank you for the additional information NewEngland! I didn't think to add a timeline change to the change order portion, but we'll be sure to put that in. I really do want to be fair to both myself AND the contractor! We hope that our end product is going to be a home he is proud to use as advertisement for both my skills in design and his skills in the actual work so we really do want this to be a very good relationship.

    I chose the $500 amount because we're comfortable with that figure. To be honest, we can handle larger overages, but wanted to be sure we didn't go nuts. The $500 is more of a figure to make me stop and think, than to stop the project on.

    My budget is VERY complex and spells out every tiny bit that we'll be providing. Monday I'll be sitting with the GC again to go over every detail of the remodel (for that final figure) as well as an item by item run through for the contract. Our plumbing and electrical run through went well this week (part of the final figure) and added to my list of items to come up with (or questions to answer) but according to my GC we're way ahead of the game in the design process.

    East...do you live near the restaurant they like to take folks to when they're visiting ArtCulinaire? It was wonderful...the name had something to do with frogs....

    We spent a lovely day with the ArtCulinaire folks (we had planned a quick visit but it turned into hours with the tour, stove talk, and lunch). The visit sold us on the Lacanche after my dismal visit with the Molteni folks.

    Today I hauled everything out of the garage and began work on our temporary kitchen :o) I could actually park a car in there now!!! And I'm wearing half of the dirt I swept off the floor, so it's shower time for me!

  • eastsider
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks for your help NEBuilder--it's nice to get your input. Like I said, my husband and I really think highly of our builder, and want things to progress smoothly and equitably for everyone. I guess we need to do more detail work like you suggested.
    IChic--we live about 20 minutes away from Woodinville and the Barking Frog. It's a great little spot--you should also try the herbfarm next time you're down--you'll need reservations and allow SEVERAL hours for dinner. A great restaurant closer to our neck of the woods and Lake Washington is Cafe Juanita. So, you didn't like the Molteni? I'm kind of glad to hear it--that's the one I really didn't spend much time researching. So I'll let go of that "what if I had looked at the Molteni . . ." feeling now.

  • igloochic
    17 years ago

    I liked the Molteni, but was not impressed when I flew down specifically to see view it from Alaska with prior warning and they had NOTHING ready for me. They didn't even know what it cost (the retailer!). I knew more about the options than they did.

    When I walked in with a baby they basically blew me off as...heck I don't know...but the way people blow you off when you have a baby (it's very rude and I see it a lot). Apparently if you have a child you can't afford a Molteni.

    So, on a whim we went to see the Lacanche and we were sold. Probably 90% of that sale was just the way they treated us when we showed up without notice. They actually knew what their product costs LOL and had specs pulled, gave us a tour and sold us some nice wine all with no issues about the baby running up and down the hallway back and forth, back and forth, bac....well you get the picture :)

    I will have a Molteni in a home some day, but I'd buy it out of NY instead of Oregon. I didn't want to schedule a trip to NY with a 17 month old child though, so that's for another home :)

  • newenglandbuilder
    16 years ago

    I'm glad my input was helpful, sounds like you have a realistic handle on what to expect and I wish you the best.