Return to the Remodeling Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Patio Door Header

Posted by jirpel (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 7:50

We are installing a new 6’ sliding glass door to replace an existing window. The existing header is 2-2x8 and is actually long enough for the new door. However, all the header sizing tables I have seen require 2-2x10 for this size opening. So for piece of mind I am leaning toward replacing the header to avoid future problems. My problem is the there is no room to fit the 2x10’s. The house is balloon framed and a ribbon board runs along the ceiling limiting the space available for the header to 7-1/2”.

Though about an lvl beam but not sure what would be an equivalent size to a 2x10. Also thought about just notching into the ribbon board to fit the 2x10 as the floor joists above would be bearing down on the header that would span across the notched ribbon board? Any thoughts?

This post was edited by jirpel on Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 7:51


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Patio Door Header

Support the ceiling joists. Make sure they are really well spiked into the studs above. Cut out the let-in ledger. Cut off the studs flush with the ceiling joists. Install whatever size of header is called for. Add the double jack studs to support its ends.The studs and joists are now carried by the new header. Pad down the header to the appropriate rough opening for your door. Remove the temporary support wall holding up the ceiling.
Casey


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

okay - if I follow you correctly. The ledge gets removed - new header installed tight against floor joists - double jack studs to hold header - frame down to opening height. Makes sense.

Should I be concerned with nailing in the studs above into the header? I wont be able to access them without cutting out the ceiling .


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

As a different approach to Casey's correct method, I would install a 4x, as apposed to a 3 piece composed header, as near to the depth required, toe-nail into the floor joists, set and toe-nail a single trimmer, west of the Mississippi terminology, build the bottom of the header down, install and toe-nail the second trimmer.


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

Hi,
In my system you could use rafter ties (a type of framing fastener) to anchor the studs to the top of the header. Adding a plate (as I take it from the other suggestion) which allows you to end-nail up into the studs before placing the header, is also fine.
Casey


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

A code table would tell you that you would need two 2x10's to support the second floor joists, attic joists, and roof rafters of a 28 ft. wide 2 story house with a 30 psf ground snow load.

Unfortunately, the tables do not include LVL's so they are often required to be sized by an engineer but that can be obtained from the LVL manufacturer at a lumber yard.

For such a short span, deflection is not an issue and two 1.75" x 7.25" LVL's would be about twice as strong in bending as two 2x10's so you could save yourself a lot of work and just install the lowest grade LVL's available.

For a one story house the existing 2x8's should be fine unless the house is wider than 28 ft. and/or the snow load is greater.

In any case, you should install double jack studs at each end of the header and provide a small space above he door frame.


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

Thanks all for the posts.

Renovator8 - The house is a Cape Cod style house which normally I would consider a one story and the existing 2x8 would be fine. However, upstairs a shed dormer begins about mid span of the opening which has our bathroom. I am thinking the bathroom will have some extra weight contributing having tile floor & walls, cast iron tub, etc. So I am leaning towards the worst case scenario which would be to look at this as a two story situation.

I will have to stop by the lumber yard on the way home to see what they have.


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

"The house is balloon framed..."

Probably time for an engineer.

The code makes certain assumptions when providing 'per se' header sizes that may not apply to your structure (platform framing being a major one).


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

Two 7.25 LVL's would carry twice the load as two 2x10's, they would be much easier to install, and your lumberyard can get a stamped drawing from the LVL manufacturer for free if you need it for a permit. Why would you consider any other header?


 o
again

deleted

This post was edited by Renovator8 on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 18:30


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

"Why would you consider any other header?"

What engineer would stamp a plan for a balloon framed structure without a site inspection?

There are likely no plans to examine to stamp off an LVL application.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 14:56


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

Thanks for all the advice. I installed the LVL beam over the weekend. Had the lumber yard size the beam and overloaded. I was able to fit in an 8-1/2" LVL beam and used rafter ties to connect the studs above the header into the beam. The rafter ties are sandwiched between the beams. It took a little time but everything when smooth. Best of all the water still drains in the right direction in the upstairs bathroom.

Picture was taken before the second jack studs were installed.


 o
RE: Patio Door Header

The beam you have installed will carry 4 times the load that the original one would. It should be OK.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Remodeling Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here